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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 92 to 116 of 136. Go back in thread:
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 16:10:29
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes » ElaineM, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 16:05:41
I made a bad mistake. I'm sorry. I don't know what I can do to make it right. I'll try very very hard not to do it again.
What do people want from me?
Next time I feel that badly again I won't post about it. Is that what you want?
Deneb*
Posted by sunnydays on January 20, 2007, at 16:23:00
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 16:10:29
((((((Deneb))))))
I think you're doing the best you can. I don't think anyone wants you not to post when you are feeling badly. Just wanted to let you know I can see how hard you're trying and I know you're doing the best you can.
sunnydays
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 16:31:08
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes » Deneb, posted by sunnydays on January 20, 2007, at 16:23:00
> ((((((Deneb))))))
>
> I think you're doing the best you can. I don't think anyone wants you not to post when you are feeling badly. Just wanted to let you know I can see how hard you're trying and I know you're doing the best you can.
>
> sunnydaysThanks Sunnydays. I know what I did then was uncivil now. I'll try really really hard never to do that again. Next time I can write about my bad feelings, but I have to make extra sure to not say it was because of what someone did or didn't do. That would fall under the "pressuring others" and accusing others part of the rules.
Deneb*
Posted by ElaineM on January 20, 2007, at 17:12:15
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes » ElaineM, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 16:05:41
I appreciate that you're sorry. Do I want you to be blocked? Considering the posts, I would've expected a PBC the first time, perhaps a Block the second -- at least perhaps an explanation how those posts were deemed "civil". It's after-the-fact now, so I'd mostly want it to not happen again, or multiple times -- that's all. I just want everyone held accountable. I just want "pressuring", especially concerning suicide, to be taken very seriously. Do I want anything more than that? No. Do I think you're horrible or whatever? No.
thanks, El
Posted by fayeroe on January 20, 2007, at 17:15:00
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 16:31:08
** Deneb said "I know what I did then was uncivil now. I'll try really really hard never to do that again. Next time I can write about my bad feelings, but I have to make extra sure to not say it was because of what someone did or didn't do. That would fall under the "pressuring others" and accusing others part of the rules." **
deneb, people don't want you to tell them that you will kill yourself if they don't do a certain thing the way you want it done. this world isn't built in a way where we can make demands that are threatening or provocative to others. because "nice matters"......
it appears to me from what you said that you realize that now and i look forward to your moving on and not repeating the patterns that you found yourself in previously. it would bring an awfully lot of peace here on Babble if you could do that. thank you so much, pat
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 17:58:52
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes » Deneb, posted by fayeroe on January 20, 2007, at 17:15:00
Do people think I'm a bad person for writing those things? Am I a bad person because I feel those things?
Am I a bad person when I get upset after people do certain things and I'm so upset I think bad things like that?
For example: Was I a bad person for wanting to kill myself after getting blocked?
What about if I fail at killing myself and end up in the hospital? Is it OK to tell people at the hospital that I tried to kill myself because I was upset over being blocked? Or should I lie because it's manipulative to say those things?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 18:54:49
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes *trigger, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 17:58:52
I don't think it was a good idea to post it now. I'm sorry. I'm starting to figure it out.
Deneb*
Posted by fayeroe on January 20, 2007, at 18:57:50
In reply to Sorry about the above post, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 18:54:49
deneb, you completely misunderstood my post. pat
Posted by tofuemmy on January 20, 2007, at 19:14:50
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes *trigger, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 17:58:52
>>For example: Was I a bad person for wanting to kill myself after getting blocked?
>>What about if I fail at killing myself and end up in the hospital? Is it OK to tell people at the hospital that I tried to kill myself because I was upset over being blocked? Or should I lie because it's manipulative to say those things?
See, Bob CAN'T block Deneb because she has made it clear that if he does, she will attempt suicide. Will she live or die this time?
And, then what happens to Bob and Babble? Could he be sued by her parents? Would he have to shut down Babble? Who knows.
Deneb...your impulsivity is scarey.
em
Posted by ElaineM on January 20, 2007, at 19:21:35
In reply to Sorry about the above post, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 18:54:49
>>>Do people think I'm a bad person for writing those things? Am I a bad person because I feel those things?
THe short answer....No. (not that anyone would be able to answer Yes to that question anyways without being uncivil - but that's irrelevant). Do you?
>>>>>>Am I a bad person when I get upset after people do certain things and I'm so upset I think bad things like that?
Nope. We can *think* and *feel* whatever we want. However, we can't *say* everything we want. At least not without consequences. There's interpersonal consequences (both good and bad) to everything, IRL and through the internet. On babble, there's also consequences to being uncivil.
As a reverse, am *I* a bad person for being upset when "people do certain things"? Thinking and feeling bad things are one thing, pressuring or blaming are another.>>>>>For example: Was I a bad person for wanting to kill myself after getting blocked?
Nope. If I had to put myself in that situation (if I got blocked), I'd have to really push myself to not just see the block/blocker as "making" me self-harm -- because blocks don't just occur for no reason. I would have to try and consider my own part in bringing about the block, and assume responsibity for my part (even if it's illness), and own my own feelings and behaviours. There's more choices before suicide attempts.
>>>>>>Is it OK to tell people at the hospital that I tried to kill myself because I was upset over being blocked? Or should I lie because it's manipulative to say those things?
First, you know that no one here would want you to go through that, right. But, yep, IRL you can always say what your perspective is. I don't see how it could be manipulative. Unless hypothetically (and I'm gonna get creative here) you fabricated a suicide attempt, and blamed the "meanness" of Babble hoping that someone would look into having the site shut down, or something like that - I guess.
You don't need to apoligize for asking those questions. It's always better to ask before reacting. Deneb, you should re-read your really insightful post above (the one to sunnydays). Maybe it will help re-clarify the thing that people were upset over in this thread. OR what if you also brought these questions into a session and did a back and forth with your pdoc? You may find it useful in your commitment to learning how to not let the same thing happen ever again. You said you're used to talking to her quite a bit now, right? [kudos on that by the way :)] What do you think?
blove El
Posted by Phillipa on January 20, 2007, at 19:34:54
In reply to Re: Sorry about the above post » Deneb, posted by ElaineM on January 20, 2007, at 19:21:35
Deneb you could role play with your therapist or pdoc. Love Phillipa
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 20:07:05
In reply to Wow.... *trigger*, posted by tofuemmy on January 20, 2007, at 19:14:50
I have no doubt that Bob or one of the deputies will block me if I'm uncivil.
I'm not saying I will feel suicidal when I am blocked. I don't think I will be. I'm taking about the past.
Deneb*
Posted by tofuemmy on January 20, 2007, at 20:15:52
In reply to Re: Wow.... *trigger*, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 20:07:05
>>What about if I fail at killing myself and end up in the hospital?
This is not past tense.
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 20:23:09
In reply to Re: Wow.... *trigger* » Deneb, posted by tofuemmy on January 20, 2007, at 20:15:52
> >>What about if I fail at killing myself and end up in the hospital?
>
> This is not past tense.I'm sorry, I write the worse things ever. I'm sorry. I'm so stupid.
I'm pretty sure I won't feel suicidal next time I get blocked.
I'm sorry. I write inappropriate things.
Deneb*
Posted by zazenduckie on January 20, 2007, at 21:34:43
In reply to Re: feeling afraid and ignored, posted by Dr. Bob on January 20, 2007, at 12:25:32
Bob may we assume if you are aware of contact information for a poster and that poster in your judgement is in a life threatening situation that you WILL take some kind of action? Your medical training gives you a better of idea of what is an emergency than some of us have.
I believe that is your duty as a physician and a fellow human being. Should someone call your office and alert you?
I believe your not taking action might lead some to believe that the situation is not life threatening. Is that a fair conclusion?
Posted by zazenduckie on January 20, 2007, at 21:38:20
In reply to Re: Wow.... *trigger* » tofuemmy, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 20:23:09
I'm glad you're okay Deneb.
I wish there was something I could do to help you but I don't know how. I wish you the best though.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 20, 2007, at 21:46:28
In reply to Wow.... *trigger*, posted by tofuemmy on January 20, 2007, at 19:14:50
> >>For example: Was I a bad person for wanting to kill myself after getting blocked?
>
> >>What about if I fail at killing myself and end up in the hospital? Is it OK to tell people at the hospital that I tried to kill myself because I was upset over being blocked? Or should I lie because it's manipulative to say those things?
>
> See, Bob CAN'T block Deneb because she has made it clear that if he does, she will attempt suicide. Will she live or die this time?
>
> And, then what happens to Bob and Babble? Could he be sued by her parents? Would he have to shut down Babble? Who knows.
>
> Deneb...your impulsivity is scarey.
>
> em
>I respectfully disagree with you. Dr Bob makes it clear on the site that he is not responsible. I mean we could all avoid a block by threatening suicide if that works...Next would Dr Bob give us his money and allow us to move into his home if we threatened and or attempted suicide. I feel a block for this kind of talk is justified. We really do not have the power to make someone kill themself...I do not know of one mental health professional who would allow themselves to be held hostage by threats like this. This is why I thought contacting the ISP the second this kinda thing comes up...followed by a block would be most effective. This is of course my feeling and opinion on this and it is not directed at any one person.
Dr Bob plain and simple...Are you afraid and being held hostage by these threats? If you do not want to say feel free to email me but I find you to be too professional to allow this kind of behavior in your real life. Just as a professor would not give an A to a student who threatened the same,. I really feel and I would if I had a site like this .calling the ISP on suicidal threats would be a safe and sound thing to do...as well as a good way to protect myself from liability. Again just my feelings and thoughts
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 1:01:39
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes, posted by ElaineM on January 20, 2007, at 15:21:45
> > Can someone point out to me the words that are provocative and distressing? I want the actual quotes.
>
> I felt that in this post you weren't being provocative, but what you said was distressing. What you wrote isn't uncivil, but I perceived it as threatening.
>
> Poet> I percievied this as quite threatening as well.
>
> ElaineMI know she asked, but I'd still like complaints about specific posts not to be posted. They can be discussed by babblemail, though. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 1:01:43
In reply to Wow.... *trigger*, posted by tofuemmy on January 20, 2007, at 19:14:50
> deneb, you completely misunderstood my post.
>
> fayeroe> Deneb...your impulsivity is scarey.
>
> tofuemmyPlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 1:01:50
In reply to Wow.... *trigger*, posted by tofuemmy on January 20, 2007, at 19:14:50
> then what happens to Bob and Babble? Could he be sued by her parents? Would he have to shut down Babble? Who knows.
Is that another fear? Of losing Babble?
Bob
Posted by tofuemmy on January 21, 2007, at 9:49:34
In reply to Re: please be civil » fayeroe » tofuemmy, posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 1:01:43
I don't think that was uncivil. Impulsivity is one the the HIGHEST risk factors for suicide. I fear for her life. How is that uncivil??
Is stating the obvious (her impulisity in light of the posts right above mine) uncivil?
Perhaps a Please Rephrase?? "I feel scared for you in light of what appears to be impulsive behavior on your part, Deneb."
I don't post to hurt her or to get her blocked, or even to change your rules. I just don't want her to end her life.
FWIW, the fear of losing Babble is not for myself, but for all the people who rely so heavily on this site. If you are successfully sued, you couldn't afford to keep it.
em
Posted by sunnydays on January 21, 2007, at 10:44:17
In reply to Re: feeling afraid, posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 1:01:50
> > then what happens to Bob and Babble? Could he be sued by her parents? Would he have to shut down Babble? Who knows.
>
> Is that another fear? Of losing Babble?
>
> BobI think that is always a fear here... I remember some posts in the past where some hypothetical threat to Babble came up and people were very upset. But for me at least, it's not the big fear. The big fears for me are favoritism and the impact pressuring posts can have on people here at Babble who are trying to protect themselves.
sunnydays
Posted by Poet on January 21, 2007, at 10:53:15
In reply to Re: pointing out posts, posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 1:01:39
In the future I will not point out a post, even if it is requested, unless I do it via babblemail. Though I question whether under babblemail guidelines it shouldn't be allowed because it might be hurtful.
Poet
Posted by Deneb on January 21, 2007, at 12:37:41
In reply to Re: feeling afraid, posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 1:01:50
I just want to alleviate people's fears about me. First of all, I haven't been feeling truly suicidal for a while now so it is very unlikely that I will kill myself because of a block or something else. Second of all, even if I were to kill myself, my parents would not sue Dr. Bob. I also wouldn't want my parents to sue Dr. Bob. Would you all feel better if I wrote a note saying I don't want my parents to sue? Sort of like a will or something?
The risk of me killing myself is also slim because I have *never* actually attempted suicide. OK, I admit I bought a rope once, but I never hung it up and I eventually returned the rope. I would also never OD to kill myself because I know what a horrible way to die that is.
It's unlikely I will feel suicidal next time I get blocked because blocked posters can chat now and I know Bob doesn't not like me or think I'm a bad person.
Deneb*
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 13:08:23
In reply to Re: pointing out posts » Dr. Bob, posted by Poet on January 21, 2007, at 10:53:15
> I don't think that was uncivil. Impulsivity is one the the HIGHEST risk factors for suicide. I fear for her life. How is that uncivil??
>
> Is stating the obvious ... uncivil?It can be, if it leads someone to feel accused or put down. Something like:
> > I feel scared for you, Deneb.
would be more of an I-statement and IMO more sensitive.
> I don't post to hurt her or to get her blocked, or even to change your rules. I just don't want her to end her life.
I understand, and I didn't mean to imply that anyone here wasn't trying to help.
> FWIW, the fear of losing Babble is not for myself, but for all the people who rely so heavily on this site. If you are successfully sued, you couldn't afford to keep it.
>
> emSure, it could be fear that others, not oneself, might lose Babble. Deneb, even. People could also care about and be scared for me. Which I would feel grateful for.
--
> The big fears for me are favoritism and the impact pressuring posts can have
>
> sunnydaysI agree, it would be good if people didn't feel pressured here. How do you think favoritism might affect posters?
--
> In the future I will not point out a post, even if it is requested, unless I do it via babblemail. Though I question whether under babblemail guidelines it shouldn't be allowed because it might be hurtful.
>
> PoetThanks. I see what you mean, it would still be important to be civil. But at least one match wouldn't start a forest fire.
Bob
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