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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2001, at 1:59:42
> Leave me alone. You seem to be interested in only harassing me. Since you feel I have nothing of value to offer, and therefore, receive, go do some laundry. Don't post to my messages.
I'm sorry you're having a hard time, but to post here it's necessary to be civil. I already warned you, so now I'm afraid I need to block you.
Bob
Posted by allisonm on February 10, 2001, at 9:27:28
In reply to Re: please be civil » Tracy , posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2001, at 1:59:42
I feel badly about this. I'm not sure that blocking Tracy was the right thing to do.
I felt Tracy's frustration, but her impatience and what felt to me like a demanding attitude bothered me a lot.
It felt (to me) like another example of the current climate where it seems the gloves are off and emotions rubbed raw. However, if we're to maintain any sense of a supportive community here, I think we need to keep some type of decorum and respect for each other. How to enforce that or remind people of it? My words only made the situation worse, but I'm not sure that blocking someone in this much distress is the answer either.
No one else seemed too bothered by Tracy's attitude. I know I exacerbated her irritation -- part of it was with my words, part of it was her perception of my words. I regret the way it escalated. It takes two to do this, and I see now I should have bowed out after my first post was rejected, or just should not have bothered to post in the first place. Maybe I'm just the one rubbed raw.
Allison
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2001, at 11:39:20
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by allisonm on February 10, 2001, at 9:27:28
> if we're to maintain any sense of a supportive community here, I think we need to keep some type of decorum and respect for each other.
That's my philosophy. It may not be the best thing for her, but I do think it's the best thing for the community.
> No one else seemed too bothered by Tracy's attitude.
I'm glad it didn't get to that point!
> I see now I should have bowed out after my first post was rejected, or just should not have bothered to post in the first place. Maybe I'm just the one rubbed raw.
Thanks for being open to looking at your role in what happened, I do think it would've been better at least to have chosen your words differently, but you wouldn't be the only one rubbed raw -- which is why civility is especially important here.
Bob
Posted by willow on February 10, 2001, at 17:20:12
In reply to Re: civility, posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2001, at 11:39:20
I may be wrong, but isn't mood and personality a big part of mental health? (A large part of my problem obtaining assistance is that my mood isn't affected.) So if Tracey's approach is confrentational, perhaps a symptom of her "illness" shouldn't we show patience and understanding in order to give support?
PS I wanted to post this follow-up once her agitation had subsided. I don't want Tracey to feel that it is directed at her. I find on this board that often when someone acts in a manner which doesn't fit the "cliques" acceptance that they are reminded to be civil. For myself I find it annoying when people post that they are going to off themselves. Myself I wouldn't tell anyone, and I believe that someone who is set on doing it wouldn't say anything either. To me it would be more in the person's interest to direct them to face the true issues than to just sympathize. Yet I suspect that I would be told to be supportive, even though that would be my intention. Thus I just skim past these posts. Perhaps others could do the same if for some reason they find a post offensive.
PPS I'm not implying that the above opinion I have to all posts regarding suicide. There are some that I can empathize with.
Posted by Rzip on February 10, 2001, at 17:59:55
In reply to civility and mental health, posted by willow on February 10, 2001, at 17:20:12
I have to agree with Dr. Bob that the utilitarian view (community over individuals) need to be advocated in resolving controveries/disruptions. This is a site that serves many different people, worldwide.
Just wanted to share my opinion.
- Rzip
Posted by willow on February 10, 2001, at 22:09:31
In reply to Utilitarian view, posted by Rzip on February 10, 2001, at 17:59:55
of community exiles its weak ones? Not mine, thank goodness!
ACCEPTANCE ... FORGIVENESSI too put my community's needs above mine, which in turn gives me a better community thus actually helping myself out. BUT what do you do with someone who puts themself first? I believe with patience instead of force you can do a lot more good. And if you can't help don't stoke the fire! By cutting them off they're going to go into a real community acting out. Isn't this a much safer sounding board?
Just one of my many opinions!
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2001, at 23:30:28
In reply to What type ..., posted by willow on February 10, 2001, at 22:09:31
> I may be wrong, but isn't mood and personality a big part of mental health? So if Tracey's approach is confrentational, perhaps a symptom of her "illness" shouldn't we show patience and understanding in order to give support?
I tried to show understanding, and letting her know earlier that I thought she had crossed the line was my way of showing patience.
> I find on this board that often when someone acts in a manner which doesn't fit the "cliques" acceptance that they are reminded to be civil.
I wouldn't want to dismiss the feelings of others by considering them a "clique"... If some people are saying they're upset, I assume others are, too, but are holding their tongues -- or just haven't come back. Besides, I'm the one who draws the line.
> For myself I find it annoying when people post that they are going to off themselves. ... To me it would be more in the person's interest to direct them to face the true issues than to just sympathize.
I agree, but it can be hard to be sure (1) what their true issues are and (2) how to "direct" them effectively.
> What type ...
> of community exiles its weak ones? Not mine, thank goodness!
> ACCEPTANCE ... FORGIVENESSYou consider incivility a sign of weakness? I don't, except possibly in the sense of weak impulse control:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20001124/msgs/490.html
I believe in acceptance and forgiveness, too, but doesn't the line need to be drawn somewhere?
> By cutting them off they're going to go into a real community acting out. Isn't this a much safer sounding board?
Safer in what way, and for whom? Maybe being in a "real" community -- or another online one -- wouldn't be such a bad thing.
Bob
Posted by willow on February 11, 2001, at 1:02:11
In reply to Re: civility and mental health, posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2001, at 23:30:28
"I find on this board that often when someone acts in a manner which doesn't fit the "cliques" acceptance that they are reminded to be civil."
I put the word cliques in quotations because it seems to be used here, though it may have not been the best choice.
"Besides, I'm the one who draws the line."
Okay BOSS! :0
"You consider incivility a sign of weakness? I don't, except possibly in the sense of weak impulse control"
Yes I do. As people I think we most want to be social and accepted. (There is the rare hermit!)
"I believe in acceptance and forgiveness, too, but doesn't the line need to be drawn somewhere?"
WHY?
I think where the line needs to be drawn depends on each of our tolerances, and obviously our levels differ. (This makes me wonder if you have children? *Alot of us act like them when we don't get our way*"Safer in what way, and for whom? Maybe being in a "real" community -- or another online one -- wouldn't be such a bad thing."
I don't agree! Perhaps little reminders like: "For example, "I-statements" such as "I felt put down by what you said" tend to be more productive than "you-statements" such as the above." would be more helpful. Don't we all have an obligation to nurture each other including the walking wounded?
WEEPING WILLOW
Posted by shar on February 11, 2001, at 2:25:01
In reply to Re: civility and mental health, posted by willow on February 11, 2001, at 1:02:11
It is a tall order for the walking wounded to help the other walking wounded find that fine line between aggression/hostility and asking for help but lacking finesse.
There are people on this board that seem to have that capacity. I encourage whatever compassion and understanding that can be given; OTOH nobody here needs to be "attacked" (member of the "clique" or not) because the purpose of the board is support and education.
Whatever incivility is, I think the result is that it does nothing to further the cause of the person in getting support or education or help. And, it can be hurtful to others who are also dealing with their own demons.
I think Dr. Bob does a fine job of identifying these situations; else, what would we have? A rant board? A flame board? And what service, or disservice, would that offer someone in pain, or dissaociating, or hypomanic? Not much. IMHO.
Perhaps you have guidelines to offer Dr. Bob about when stepping in is appropriate. He seems pretty open to suggestions.
Shar
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