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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bleauberry on January 29, 2019, at 10:19:20
Mold in your home causes psychiatric symptoms. Did you know that? I just tested very high for mold. Mold results further below...
Most people detox daily mold normally. But 25% of us don't. We tend to accumulate the toxins over the years. The toxins are bad for your brain, immune system, hormones, and intestines. Mood.
So everyone here knows I've battled with treatment resistant depression for decades and that I finally found remission from it by treating it as if it was Lyme instead. But I keep relapsing. And each relapse is worse than the one before it.
When I relapse my symptoms are like yours. Depression - feeling worthless, despair, isolated, dark, hopeless. Anxiety and panic attacks - sort of like whole-body shudders, tremors, chattering, with lightening bolts going through the heart, heart palpitations, almost close to maybe a depressive schizophrenic Parkinson's thing. Very terrifying.
I have never been so terrified in my life.
So I'm back on antibiotics, this time specifically for Bartonelliosis, not generalized Lyme. Bartonella is a common confection of lyme. It can also come from cat scratches, cat bites, and fleas. It is notorious for messing with the brain and producing treatment resistant psychiatric symptoms. The quickest way to beat this kind of depression is with a combo of Minocycline+Rifampin or Doxycycline+Rifampin. And whatever psychiatric meds for immediate acute relief - benzodiazapine, antihistamines, for example.
My doc suspects mold when treatment is rocky. So I peed in a cup and here are the results:
My mold results. (in ng/g creatinine)
Ochratoxin A (Scored 35.08m on a scale that ranges from 4 to 20, with under 4 being good, anything higher is bad)
Sterigmatocystin (under 2 is good, 2 to 175 is bad, I scored 200)
Mycophenolic Acid (Under 5 is good, 5 to 50 is bad, I scored 563.72.)
That's literally 1000% too high.I think without the strategic supplements I take I would be dead. Because many of them are anti-fungal, anti-inflammation, anti-toxicity, anti-oxidation, etc. I think they have protected me - somewhat - from the worst damage. Time will tell.
So mold exposure like this, or less, can set off in your body a condition called CIRS - Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome.
Obviously you can see how that would easily cause profound treatment resistant psychiatric symptoms. We become sensitive to all sorts of things giving us inflammation of the brain.How many of us are like this and don't know it? (there are genetic tests to specifically identify if you are like that or not)
I've been screaming Lyme for a long time to anyone who will listen. So today I am adding a new wrinkle to that. I'm adding mold.
Ritalin can help on down days. Benzos can help on "racing" days. I personally do not think chronic usage of either is a good idea, that it makes much more sense to tackle the actual underlying issues. Antipsychotics can be helpful. I would avoid SSRIs which are more trouble than not for most people. And chronically ill people just do not have a good prognosis or outcome with them. As you have seen.
Probably the most helpful thing so far has been the addition of activated charcoal capsules on empty stomach, twice a day, and bentonite clay once a day. These absorb mold toxins in the gut and the bile. And that tends to draw more out of the body.
I was prescribed Sprononox for mold.
I am almost thinking it might not be a bad idea for treatment resistant depression patients to try activated charcoal capsules for a couple weeks just to see what happens. That's because there is no risk, huge potential benefits, and it is very cheap at the grocery store or natural food store. If you feel a hint of feeling better with it, then that is a very powerful clue for the rest of your journey.
How old is your house? How long have you lived there? Have you ever seen mold in it? Anywhere? Has there ever been water damage? Do other people in the same dwelling have any health issues? Have you ever smelled mold or mildew in your place?
Decent questions if you are a chronic psychiatric patient. I always poo-poo'd the idea of mold being dangerous. I heard stories of "sick houses" from black mold. And I shrugged them off. There are toxic molds besides black and they come in all colors and shapes.
They used to suggest bright lights for depression, remember that? Which were basically just blue-spectrum floursescent bulbs. I think the following two suggestions make a lot more sense:
1.Activated charcoal capsules, Bentonite clay
2.HEPA air purifier for your living space.Always thinking of ways to improve on the psychiatric prescriptions you are taking. There is always other stuff you can do to get improved results.
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 29, 2019, at 11:27:35
In reply to Relapse Update - MOLD, posted by bleauberry on January 29, 2019, at 10:19:20
What kind of test is this? Is it dependable? Blood level of mold or immune response to mold? Thanks
> My mold results. (in ng/g creatinine)
> Ochratoxin A (Scored 35.08m on a scale that ranges from 4 to 20, with under 4 being good, anything higher is bad)
> Sterigmatocystin (under 2 is good, 2 to 175 is bad, I scored 200)
> Mycophenolic Acid (Under 5 is good, 5 to 50 is bad, I scored 563.72.)
> That's literally 1000% too high.
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 29, 2019, at 11:35:28
In reply to Relapse Update - MOLD, posted by bleauberry on January 29, 2019, at 10:19:20
This post is just for notification purposes. Please ignore
Posted by linkadge on January 29, 2019, at 17:56:52
In reply to Relapse Update - MOLD, posted by bleauberry on January 29, 2019, at 10:19:20
Blueberry,
I'm sorry I can't respond anymore because your self diagnosis is bordering on delusional.
Linkadge
Posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2019, at 8:48:53
In reply to Relapse Update - MOLD, posted by bleauberry on January 29, 2019, at 10:19:20
I was curious about your test results so I looked them up on Wikipedia.
> My mold results. (in ng/g creatinine)
> Ochratoxin A (Scored 35.08m on a scale that ranges from 4 to 20, with under 4 being good, anything higher is bad)
> Sterigmatocystin (under 2 is good, 2 to 175 is bad, I scored 200)
Aspergillus is common to both (a fungus - not a mould).
> Mycophenolic Acid (Under 5 is good, 5 to 50 is bad, I scored 563.72.)
> That's literally 1000% too high.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycophenolic_acid
Wiki said that's a immunosuppressant used to prevent rejection in organ transplantation. I gues that would be a pretty powerful immunosuppressant. Why would you have high level of that in your system for?
> I think without the strategic supplements I take I would be dead. Because many of them are anti-fungal, anti-inflammation, anti-toxicity, anti-oxidation, etc. I think they have protected me - somewhat - from the worst damage. Time will tell.Maybe the mycophenolic acid was in your suppliments? Which meant aspergillius got out of control?
I know nothing. NOthing. Nothing at all. Only enough to be trouble.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2019, at 8:50:14
In reply to Re: Relapse Update - MOLD » bleauberry, posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2019, at 8:48:53
what did your doctor say?
Posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2019, at 9:05:49
In reply to Re: Relapse Update - MOLD, posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2019, at 8:50:14
Sigh.
I just realised. That's what they say I have. Aspergilliosis or however you spell it. I thought it was a weird made-up thing, but it actually a thing. I don't know how it got to be that.
I don't know how to put that right. What to do about the disability thing. Do I have a disability? What does that even mean? I don't know. I guess I've learned that only take the accommodations you need. Be mindful. And always try and be mindful of sustainability and sharing and not taking more than I need... It's okay. It's okay.
I saw that the immunosuppressant can be used as an antibiotic which confused me... But what you do know, purine salvage pathway, huh. Different cells...
Posted by bleauberry on February 3, 2019, at 8:44:40
In reply to Re: Relapse Update - MOLD, posted by Lamdage22 on January 29, 2019, at 11:27:35
It's a urine test. Pee in a cup and send it off to the lab.
It measures mold toxins, not mold. The toxins store in our tissues.
The test I took was by Great Plains Laboratory and was $299.
There are not established guidelines of what are safe or dangerous levels of toxins. And everyone is different. Some people can be fine with high toxicity while others are very sick with just low toxicity. The test shows your results compared to common readings from healthy public samples.
> What kind of test is this? Is it dependable? Blood level of mold or immune response to mold? Thanks
>
> > My mold results. (in ng/g creatinine)
> > Ochratoxin A (Scored 35.08m on a scale that ranges from 4 to 20, with under 4 being good, anything higher is bad)
> > Sterigmatocystin (under 2 is good, 2 to 175 is bad, I scored 200)
> > Mycophenolic Acid (Under 5 is good, 5 to 50 is bad, I scored 563.72.)
> > That's literally 1000% too high.
>
>
Posted by bleauberry on February 3, 2019, at 8:51:48
In reply to Re: Relapse Update - MOLD, posted by linkadge on January 29, 2019, at 17:56:52
Well, I would just add, that if I am delusional, then a psychiatric forum is the right place for me, yeah?
How did you ever figure any of this is self diagnosis? This is all stuff done at the hospital. This is what they told me after my time there. It was 100% their diagnosis, not mine.
I see crazy cocktails that aren't working well, not restoring anybody to remission. That to me is delusional.
We each have to do our own journey. I did not appreciate your insults thrown at me. But it's ok. I get it.
> Blueberry,
>
> I'm sorry I can't respond anymore because your self diagnosis is bordering on delusional.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by bleauberry on February 3, 2019, at 9:04:12
In reply to Re: Relapse Update - MOLD » bleauberry, posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2019, at 8:48:53
You ask good questions. Your curiosity and challenge is like a diamond in the world of psychiatry. Rare and beautiful.
With the benefit of hindsight and a lot of thought over days and weeks, here's my thinking at this point.
1.There have been molded cardboard boxes and wood in my basement for 20+ years. I used to do a lot of work down there.
2.That stuff is all gone. The Dump Guy took it all. There really isn't much mold in the rest of the house. A little here and there.
3.A genetic test 10 years ago indicated I have flaws in methylation, which is tied to detoxing contaminants. My greatest suspicion at this time is that I have been accumulating mold toxins for decades. Early signs were bloating issues, depression and slow healing skin wounds. But of course I had no idea at the time.
4.What I've been researching indicates that most of us are subjected to significant mold toxin exposure through our food choices, not our homes. Like for example, corn, peanuts and coffee are loaded.
5.The immunosuppressant power is my explanation for why I relapse in Lyme after I have gotten to remission, multiple times. And why it took me 3 years to beat it the first time, when it normally should have taken about 9 months to a year.
6.I complained to my doc of a "sour sponge' smell in my sinuses. Apparently mold growth in the nasal cavities is not uncommon. That would definitely explain some of the high values I scored. I am currently treating that with silver spray and then will switch over to a prescription nose antifungal. This particular treatment protocol lessens the potential for relapse.
7.The next step is to get an air quality test of my home to find out if there are issues. This is too serious to be guessing.
Complicate stuff. More questions than answers. All I can say is it is at least good to have objective issues to work with. Most patients have no clue what is actually wrong in their bodies.
> I was curious about your test results so I looked them up on Wikipedia.
>
> > My mold results. (in ng/g creatinine)
>
> > Ochratoxin A (Scored 35.08m on a scale that ranges from 4 to 20, with under 4 being good, anything higher is bad)
>
> > Sterigmatocystin (under 2 is good, 2 to 175 is bad, I scored 200)
>
> Aspergillus is common to both (a fungus - not a mould).
>
> > Mycophenolic Acid (Under 5 is good, 5 to 50 is bad, I scored 563.72.)
> > That's literally 1000% too high.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycophenolic_acid
>
> Wiki said that's a immunosuppressant used to prevent rejection in organ transplantation. I gues that would be a pretty powerful immunosuppressant. Why would you have high level of that in your system for?
>
>
> > I think without the strategic supplements I take I would be dead. Because many of them are anti-fungal, anti-inflammation, anti-toxicity, anti-oxidation, etc. I think they have protected me - somewhat - from the worst damage. Time will tell.
>
> Maybe the mycophenolic acid was in your suppliments? Which meant aspergillius got out of control?
>
> I know nothing. NOthing. Nothing at all. Only enough to be trouble.
>
Posted by bleauberry on February 3, 2019, at 9:09:07
In reply to Re: Relapse Update - MOLD, posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2019, at 8:50:14
> what did your doctor say?
My doctor's tone turned more serious than I have ever seen her before.
She says I have to take steps to make sure the house is not the problem, get it fixed if it is, and to think about moving if it is.
She put me on Sporonox to prevent mold replicating in my body.
She put me on binders to grab onto the toxins in the gut and escort them out so they are not recirculated. Activated charcoal. Bentonite Clay. Welchol. And Cholistyramine.
There isn't really any established treatment. The idea is to remove the exposure source, and then help the body detox with binders.
I never had any idea that our food choices were so important to healing but they are. Mold and fungus love sugar and love grains. So it's important to minimize or eliminate those. They can be starved out. But the toxins remain. They have to be detoxed with time, supplements and binders.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 4, 2019, at 0:27:01
In reply to Re: Relapse Update - MOLD, posted by bleauberry on February 3, 2019, at 9:09:07
why, thank you. that was a really kind thing for you to say. i have been having a bit of a yukky day, and you made me feel a bit nice there. thank you.
it may make sense to have your house tested. we have wooden houses in these parts and they tend to mold (actually mold / fungus... i think actually mold is in the cold and fungus is what grows in peoples lungs... i can't find it right now...)
what i was thinking is that aspergilillus is opportunisitic. that means it is present about the place but normally people don't get sick from it unless they are immunocompromised (or unless levels are really very high in their environment - which i suppose could be the case in your house).
i guess i was wondering whether the treatment for lyme was the one that was the immunosuppressant. if basically the treatment that killed the lyme created the space for the aspergilillus to thrive... or created the immune deficiency for it to grow.
the level of immunosuppressant that was high. your doc wasn't worried about that?
again, i know nothing. maybe you have posted here for years with delusions about bacteria and fungus and so on. i don't know.
This is the end of the thread.
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