![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by swim on August 7, 2016, at 12:46:44
I am at the dead end and out of ideas, even Nardil has stopped working. I'm currently taking no meds as they don't help anymore.
I just forced myself back to work full time in hope to get better by doing something, but this hasn't helped either. My friends tell me to just wait and it'll get better, but i know it wouldn't as i have tried to wait it out two times before without meds in 13 years of being sick, both attempts lasting almost for an year but nothing happened, still depressed. I think about ending my life every day, but it's astonishing how strong human survival instinct is to rather choose life of suffering instead of death. This means i will probably not die very soon so i'm f*ck*d.. something needs to be done here, but i don't know what as i already mentioned before.
I can see many people are against psychotropic drugs, ..give me a better option, i'm all ears.
I can't stop wondering if it was ten years in to the future, like 2026, we will have more drugs available, maybe something would work, or 2100, when there is advanced nanotechnology available for us on the time of technological singularity closing in, we might have beaten the illnes by then, but now we are f*ck*d.
I never thought that my life is going to be like this, even though there is lot of death and suffering in this world, it shouldn't be like this, basic emotions should still exist, the ability to feel joy and sadness, this makes us human, taking away persons ability to feel is not an honest fight. Something needs to be done here, it can't go on like this much longer.
You might notice that there is nothing informative or educational about what i just wrote, but this wasn't the idea, instead i just wanted to express how i feel about life and my current situtation at the current moment. I can see many of us reaching out for help even though we know there is non available, like me.
Anyways, what are the guidelines in countries like the US in case of treatment-resistant depression? I live in a small country where doctors don't use off-lable drugs, so that makes my situation even more f*ck*d up. Everything is so f*ck*d up that it makes me lough some times. Maybe i need to order illicit Ketamine again, though i got hooked last time i self-medicated with it. Ou one more thing, i just got out from my local hospital intensive care department for overdosing on Nardil hoping it will make me a bit better, i also co administered other psychotropic agents with it like Zoloft, Levodopa/Carbidopa, 5-htp and a six-back of cold beer. Every once in a while when i got enough and want to feel better right away, I tend to experiment with most dangerous drug cocktails i can find on the internet, but it doesn't work most of the time.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 7, 2016, at 15:13:39
In reply to treatment resistand MDD, now what?, posted by swim on August 7, 2016, at 12:46:44
> I am at the dead end and out of ideas, even Nardil has stopped working. I'm currently taking no meds as they don't help anymore.
>
> I just forced myself back to work full time in hope to get better by doing something, but this hasn't helped either. My friends tell me to just wait and it'll get better, but i know it wouldn't as i have tried to wait it out two times before without meds in 13 years of being sick, both attempts lasting almost for an year but nothing happened, still depressed. I think about ending my life every day, but it's astonishing how strong human survival instinct is to rather choose life of suffering instead of death. This means i will probably not die very soon so i'm f*ck*d.. something needs to be done here, but i don't know what as i already mentioned before.
>
> I can see many people are against psychotropic drugs, ..give me a better option, i'm all ears.
>
> I can't stop wondering if it was ten years in to the future, like 2026, we will have more drugs available, maybe something would work, or 2100, when there is advanced nanotechnology available for us on the time of technological singularity closing in, we might have beaten the illnes by then, but now we are f*ck*d.
>
> I never thought that my life is going to be like this, even though there is lot of death and suffering in this world, it shouldn't be like this, basic emotions should still exist, the ability to feel joy and sadness, this makes us human, taking away persons ability to feel is not an honest fight. Something needs to be done here, it can't go on like this much longer.
>
> You might notice that there is nothing informative or educational about what i just wrote, but this wasn't the idea, instead i just wanted to express how i feel about life and my current situtation at the current moment. I can see many of us reaching out for help even though we know there is non available, like me.
>
> Anyways, what are the guidelines in countries like the US in case of treatment-resistant depression? I live in a small country where doctors don't use off-lable drugs, so that makes my situation even more f*ck*d up. Everything is so f*ck*d up that it makes me lough some times. Maybe i need to order illicit Ketamine again, though i got hooked last time i self-medicated with it. Ou one more thing, i just got out from my local hospital intensive care department for overdosing on Nardil hoping it will make me a bit better, i also co administered other psychotropic agents with it like Zoloft, Levodopa/Carbidopa, 5-htp and a six-back of cold beer. Every once in a while when i got enough and want to feel better right away, I tend to experiment with most dangerous drug cocktails i can find on the internet, but it doesn't work most of the time.
>someone,
You wrote,[...I am at the dead end...meds don't help anymore...I think about ending my life...give me a better option...I can't go on like this...there is no help available...].
The quacks that think that giving you mind-altering drugs will set you free from depression add to your depression with life-ruining conditions, addiction and death.
The drugs are chemical nerve agents used in insecticides and worm killers and rat poison and used in the commission of mas-murder. They go to your frontal lobe and dehumanize you. The black box warning is the beginning if sorrows, yet today, they offer a hope, but to many it is a false hope, like from what you have posted here.
I would not give you false hope.
Lou
Posted by SLS on August 7, 2016, at 17:38:17
In reply to treatment resistand MDD, now what?, posted by swim on August 7, 2016, at 12:46:44
It is hard to give you advice without knowing your history. So, instead of that, I'm going to show you what I am taking now. I have no reason to think that my treatment regime will help you, but it will give you some idea as to how complex drug treatment can be.
Parnate (tranylcypromine) 80 mg/day
nortriptyline 100 mg/day
Lamictal (lamotrigine) 300 mg/day
lithium 300 mg/day
Abilify (aripiprazole) 10 mg/day
prozosin 30 mg/dayCan you describe the symptoms of your depression?
Is there any family history of mental illness?
- Scott
Posted by Tabitha on August 7, 2016, at 19:10:37
In reply to treatment resistand MDD, now what?, posted by swim on August 7, 2016, at 12:46:44
Hi. I'm sorry things are going so badly. I agree it's really sad that so many conditions have no effective medical treatment. We end up suffering so much.
As to meds, I would suggest trying lithium if you haven't already.
Posted by shadowtom2 on August 7, 2016, at 20:23:50
In reply to treatment resistand MDD, now what?, posted by swim on August 7, 2016, at 12:46:44
Swim,
I'm not sure whether or not any professional organizations here in the U.S. have put forth guidelines that recommend how to best treat cases of depressive illness that do not respond favorably to psychiatric medications. From my perspective, it makes sense that if there are any evidence-based treatment interventions other than medications that haven't been tried, such interventions ought to be looked at, especially if the risk of adverse effects from the treatments is low. With it being the case that major depressive disorder and other depressive illnesses are indeed health conditions, I'd recommend discussing any treatments options that you might be considering with a qualified professional before making use of them. Forums like this one are good for ideas, but I think that if a person does come across an idea on a forum like this that sounds promising, the person in question ought to discuss the idea with a qualified professional before deciding to use a treatment for a condition like major depressive disorder that the person might have come across on the Internet.
Having said what I've said, I'm going to mention a few treatment interventions other than medications that are used for major depressive illness and other depressive illnesses. My understanding of the treatment interventions that I'm about to mention is that these treatments tend to have more evidence to support their use than some treatment interventions that I'm not going to mention, but it isn't my intention to put together a complete list of all treatments for depressive illness that have a large body of evidence to support their use. Rather, it's my intention to touch on a few treatment interventions for depressive illness that might be worth considering.
To start with, talk therapies, most notably cognitive-behavioral therapy and interpersonal therapy, have been shown to be effective in the treatment of depressive illness, and there's also some evidence that utilizing talk therapy along with taking medications tends to lead to better results than utilizing either form of treatment alone. Exercise is another intervention for the management of depressive illness that some studies have found to be beneficial, and even though I'm not sure if exercising along with utilizing talk therapies and/or medications has been demonstrated to lead to benefits that are more pronounced than using a single treatment modality, it makes sense that using more (rather than fewer) treatment interventions that have a reasonable chance of being beneficial would only increase your chances of having a favorable outcome. Two other treatments that mainstream psychiatrists are known to use for depressive illness are electroconvulsive therapy and repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation. The latter treatment, rTMS, has received approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration specifically in the treatment of those with depressive illness whose symptoms have not responded to other treatments. ECT is also used for treatment-resistant depression, and it's considered to be one of the more effective treatments for cases of depressive illness that are severe and life threatening, but ECT also has a more extensive side-effect profile than most (if not all) treatments used in psychiatry and thus tends to only be used in certain situations.
Other than talk therapies, exercise, rTMS, and ECT, some alternative treatments for depressive illness also have some evidence to support their use (even though the strength of the evidence varies depending on the treatment). Complementary health practices that have been suggested to be beneficial for those with depressive illnesses include acupuncture and meditation, and several dietary supplements have also been shown to improve mood. Among the supplements that I'd consider to have the most potential for those with depressive illnesses are St. John's Wort, SAM-e, vitamin D3, omega-3 fatty acids, Rhodiola rosea, curcumin, and 5-HTP. Rhodiola rosea and curcumin might be of particular interest to you because there's some evidence that, like Nardil, they inhibit the monoamine oxidase enzymes.
With respect to vitamin D, scientific reviews have actually stated that low levels of the vitamin (or hormone, to be even more accurate) have been found to be correlated with major depressive disorder. My understanding is that it hasn't been established whether low vitamin D levels might cause depressive illness, or whether the relationship between low vitamin D levels and depressive illness might be explained in other ways. Almeida and colleagues (2015) have suggested that low vitamin D levels are more likely to be a consequence of depressive illness than a cause of the illness, based on findings that low vitamin D levels have been found to be associated with current depression, but not past or future depression. However, the authors also stated that more large randomized placebo-controlled trials designed to evaluate the efficacy of vitamin D3 in patients with depressive illness who have low levels of the vitamin/hormone are needed before conclusions can be made about how low vitamin D levels and depressive illness might be causally related. I have some reason to believe based on all of the information that I've come across on vitamin D that the benefits of vitamin D3 supplementation might take longer to become apparent (perhaps several months or longer) than the benefits of most potential treatments for depressive illnesses, but this might not be true in all cases. At any rate, increasing your vitamin D level -- whether it's by getting more sunlight, by eating more vitamin D-rich foods, or by taking vitamin D3 supplements -- might conceivably help to relieve your depression if your level of the vitamin/hormone is low, and so, I think that getting your vitamin D level checked might be worth looking into, if there's any way that you can do that.
Well, I know that I've just put a lot of ideas out there regarding treatment interventions that you might want to consider. Considering that you've described your depression as treatment resistant, it wouldn't surprise me if you've already tried some of the ideas that I've suggested, but it's my hope that there's at least an idea or two out of all of the ideas that I put forth that you haven't tried and might find to be at least somewhat promising. As I said, I do recommend that you consult with a qualified professional before utilizing any treatment ideas that I've put forth or that anybody else here might forth, but at the same time, I hope that you'll end up getting at least an idea or two from the members who post here that you'll ultimately find to be beneficial.
Good luck,
Tom (the former Tomatheus)==
REFERENCE
Almeida, O.P., Hankey, G.J., Yeap, B.B., Golledge, J., & Flicker, L. (2015). Vitamin D concentration and its association with past, current and future depression in older men: The Health in Men Study. Maturitas, 81, 36-41. Abstract: http://www.maturitas.org/article/S0378-5122%2815%2900033-X/abstract
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 7, 2016, at 21:09:01
In reply to Lou's response-false hope » swim, posted by Lou Pilder on August 7, 2016, at 15:13:39
> > I am at the dead end and out of ideas, even Nardil has stopped working. I'm currently taking no meds as they don't help anymore.
> >
> > I just forced myself back to work full time in hope to get better by doing something, but this hasn't helped either. My friends tell me to just wait and it'll get better, but i know it wouldn't as i have tried to wait it out two times before without meds in 13 years of being sick, both attempts lasting almost for an year but nothing happened, still depressed. I think about ending my life every day, but it's astonishing how strong human survival instinct is to rather choose life of suffering instead of death. This means i will probably not die very soon so i'm f*ck*d.. something needs to be done here, but i don't know what as i already mentioned before.
> >
> > I can see many people are against psychotropic drugs, ..give me a better option, i'm all ears.
> >
> > I can't stop wondering if it was ten years in to the future, like 2026, we will have more drugs available, maybe something would work, or 2100, when there is advanced nanotechnology available for us on the time of technological singularity closing in, we might have beaten the illnes by then, but now we are f*ck*d.
> >
> > I never thought that my life is going to be like this, even though there is lot of death and suffering in this world, it shouldn't be like this, basic emotions should still exist, the ability to feel joy and sadness, this makes us human, taking away persons ability to feel is not an honest fight. Something needs to be done here, it can't go on like this much longer.
> >
> > You might notice that there is nothing informative or educational about what i just wrote, but this wasn't the idea, instead i just wanted to express how i feel about life and my current situtation at the current moment. I can see many of us reaching out for help even though we know there is non available, like me.
> >
> > Anyways, what are the guidelines in countries like the US in case of treatment-resistant depression? I live in a small country where doctors don't use off-lable drugs, so that makes my situation even more f*ck*d up. Everything is so f*ck*d up that it makes me lough some times. Maybe i need to order illicit Ketamine again, though i got hooked last time i self-medicated with it. Ou one more thing, i just got out from my local hospital intensive care department for overdosing on Nardil hoping it will make me a bit better, i also co administered other psychotropic agents with it like Zoloft, Levodopa/Carbidopa, 5-htp and a six-back of cold beer. Every once in a while when i got enough and want to feel better right away, I tend to experiment with most dangerous drug cocktails i can find on the internet, but it doesn't work most of the time.
> >
>
> someone,
> You wrote,[...I am at the dead end...meds don't help anymore...I think about ending my life...give me a better option...I can't go on like this...there is no help available...].
> The quacks that think that giving you mind-altering drugs will set you free from depression add to your depression with life-ruining conditions, addiction and death.
> The drugs are chemical nerve agents used in insecticides and worm killers and rat poison and used in the commission of mas-murder. They go to your frontal lobe and dehumanize you. The black box warning is the beginning if sorrows, yet today, they offer a hope, but to many it is a false hope, like from what you have posted here.
> I would not give you false hope.
> Lousomeone,
I would not give you false hope. for there is healing that comes from the rays of the Sun. These rays are beyond the understanding of those that are in the darkness. You can come out of the darkness and into a marvelous light.
The drugs that you have in you have poisoned you. Poisoned you with the filth of death that has taken you away from the green fields that you used to know. But the Water of Life can cleanse you from the poison of death in you from the drugs.
You see, the drugs have taken you away and more drugs could cause you to go that way into outer darkness. But you could get back to where you once belonged.
There are two trees that you can eat the fruit of. The tree of life, or you can eat the poisoned fruit from the tree of death. I can lead you to the tree of life. And you could drink the Waters of Life freely.
Lou
Posted by SLS on August 8, 2016, at 6:03:31
In reply to Re: treatment resistand MDD, now what?, posted by Tabitha on August 7, 2016, at 19:10:37
> Hi. I'm sorry things are going so badly. I agree it's really sad that so many conditions have no effective medical treatment. We end up suffering so much.
>
> As to meds, I would suggest trying lithium if you haven't already.This is a great suggestion. However, if no bipolar stuff is going on, I would first try a low-dosage strategy. A number of years ago, the researchers at Harvard used a dosage range of 300-600 mg/day. 450 mg/day was the average. I found that when I added 300 mg/day, I felt better within 48 hours.
- Scott
Posted by Hello321 on August 8, 2016, at 14:40:36
In reply to treatment resistand MDD, now what?, posted by swim on August 7, 2016, at 12:46:44
Ive read a few experiences where peoples mood benefitted from fasting. Going without food for a certain amount of time. A ketogenic diet has definitely taken the edge off of my mood problems, but after my last meal tonight around 8, im going to try at least 24 hours without food and only drinkng water. Im sure it wont be pleasent during the fast, but maybe when im done i'll benefit from it.
Posted by SLS on August 8, 2016, at 15:28:01
In reply to Re: treatment resistand MDD, now what?, posted by Hello321 on August 8, 2016, at 14:40:36
> Ive read a few experiences where peoples mood benefitted from fasting. Going without food for a certain amount of time. A ketogenic diet has definitely taken the edge off of my mood problems, but after my last meal tonight around 8, im going to try at least 24 hours without food and only drinkng water. Im sure it wont be pleasent during the fast, but maybe when im done i'll benefit from it.
Have you ever tried one night's total sleep deprivation? For many people with depression, it can produce a great antidepressant effect that lasts about 1/2 the day. Sleep deprivation is obviously not a workable treatment. However, it would be interesting to know, and might provide information in the future to help choose treatments. For instance, an improvement resulting from sleep deprivation may indicate that a MAOI would be better than using a SSRI. I don't know. Some people do use occasional sleep deprivation in an effort to help their drugs work better. I don't know what to think about that. I experience an improvement with it, but I then relapse after six hours.
Just curious.
- Scott
Posted by Hello321 on August 8, 2016, at 17:20:09
In reply to Re: treatment resistand MDD, now what? » Hello321, posted by SLS on August 8, 2016, at 15:28:01
Oh I've tried sleep deprivation, but not on purpose. Lol... didn't feel anything other than sleep deprived.
Posted by linkadge on August 8, 2016, at 17:54:33
In reply to Re: treatment resistand MDD, now what? » SLS, posted by Hello321 on August 8, 2016, at 17:20:09
What are your biggest symptoms? Anxiety? Sadness? Apathy? Insomnia?
Linkadge
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 8, 2016, at 19:20:15
In reply to Lou's response-the two trees, posted by Lou Pilder on August 7, 2016, at 21:09:01
> > > I am at the dead end and out of ideas, even Nardil has stopped working. I'm currently taking no meds as they don't help anymore.
> > >
> > > I just forced myself back to work full time in hope to get better by doing something, but this hasn't helped either. My friends tell me to just wait and it'll get better, but i know it wouldn't as i have tried to wait it out two times before without meds in 13 years of being sick, both attempts lasting almost for an year but nothing happened, still depressed. I think about ending my life every day, but it's astonishing how strong human survival instinct is to rather choose life of suffering instead of death. This means i will probably not die very soon so i'm f*ck*d.. something needs to be done here, but i don't know what as i already mentioned before.
> > >
> > > I can see many people are against psychotropic drugs, ..give me a better option, i'm all ears.
> > >
> > > I can't stop wondering if it was ten years in to the future, like 2026, we will have more drugs available, maybe something would work, or 2100, when there is advanced nanotechnology available for us on the time of technological singularity closing in, we might have beaten the illnes by then, but now we are f*ck*d.
> > >
> > > I never thought that my life is going to be like this, even though there is lot of death and suffering in this world, it shouldn't be like this, basic emotions should still exist, the ability to feel joy and sadness, this makes us human, taking away persons ability to feel is not an honest fight. Something needs to be done here, it can't go on like this much longer.
> > >
> > > You might notice that there is nothing informative or educational about what i just wrote, but this wasn't the idea, instead i just wanted to express how i feel about life and my current situtation at the current moment. I can see many of us reaching out for help even though we know there is non available, like me.
> > >
> > > Anyways, what are the guidelines in countries like the US in case of treatment-resistant depression? I live in a small country where doctors don't use off-lable drugs, so that makes my situation even more f*ck*d up. Everything is so f*ck*d up that it makes me lough some times. Maybe i need to order illicit Ketamine again, though i got hooked last time i self-medicated with it. Ou one more thing, i just got out from my local hospital intensive care department for overdosing on Nardil hoping it will make me a bit better, i also co administered other psychotropic agents with it like Zoloft, Levodopa/Carbidopa, 5-htp and a six-back of cold beer. Every once in a while when i got enough and want to feel better right away, I tend to experiment with most dangerous drug cocktails i can find on the internet, but it doesn't work most of the time.
> > >
> >
> > someone,
> > You wrote,[...I am at the dead end...meds don't help anymore...I think about ending my life...give me a better option...I can't go on like this...there is no help available...].
> > The quacks that think that giving you mind-altering drugs will set you free from depression add to your depression with life-ruining conditions, addiction and death.
> > The drugs are chemical nerve agents used in insecticides and worm killers and rat poison and used in the commission of mas-murder. They go to your frontal lobe and dehumanize you. The black box warning is the beginning if sorrows, yet today, they offer a hope, but to many it is a false hope, like from what you have posted here.
> > I would not give you false hope.
> > Lou
>
> someone,
> I would not give you false hope. for there is healing that comes from the rays of the Sun. These rays are beyond the understanding of those that are in the darkness. You can come out of the darkness and into a marvelous light.
> The drugs that you have in you have poisoned you. Poisoned you with the filth of death that has taken you away from the green fields that you used to know. But the Water of Life can cleanse you from the poison of death in you from the drugs.
> You see, the drugs have taken you away and more drugs could cause you to go that way into outer darkness. But you could get back to where you once belonged.
> There are two trees that you can eat the fruit of. The tree of life, or you can eat the poisoned fruit from the tree of death. I can lead you to the tree of life. And you could drink the Waters of Life freely.
> Lousomeone,
You can see the tragedy here with people under mind-altering drugs telling you all kinds of things. One says take Lithium. Another says to fast. Another says to deprive yourself of sleep.
But if that was all there was to do, then it would be real simple, wouldn't it. But those people telling you to think upon those things could be all taking drugs, so why are they?
You see, your system is poisoned by the drugs. Your brain has been disrupted by the drugs. What can you do to be un disrupted and un poisoned? Take more drugs that could addict you or kill you? Fast? stay awake? Have your brain electrified into seizures? What sane person could think of doing that to a human being?
Take this opportunity to find out the truth as to how the water of the Word can cleanse you to be made free. Take this opportunity to have the Water of Life cleanse you from your poison. For you can eat of the fruit from the Tree of Life and be washed by the Water of the Word and cast out the poison from the psychiatrist that these people are taking here that kill thousands of people each month.
Lou
Posted by linkadge on August 8, 2016, at 20:31:08
In reply to Lou's response-washed by the water of the word, posted by Lou Pilder on August 8, 2016, at 19:20:15
Lou,
You're wrong. It's that simple.
Linkadge
Posted by Hello321 on August 9, 2016, at 9:29:19
In reply to Re: treatment resistand MDD, now what? » Hello321, posted by linkadge on August 8, 2016, at 17:54:33
> What are your biggest symptoms? Anxiety? Sadness? Apathy? Insomnia?
>
> LinkadgeI'd say my main symptom is pretty severe anhedonia.
14 hours into fasting :D
I think I'll do it this time for just 24 hours and see how I feel. If nothing, in a few days I'll go for 48 hours. I've read about people fasting for days. But I'm worried about possible nutrient deficiencies
Posted by linkadge on August 9, 2016, at 16:06:48
In reply to Re: treatment resistand MDD, now what?, posted by Hello321 on August 9, 2016, at 9:29:19
Fasting could have some short term benefit for anhedonia. Be careful with it longer term, however.
Try some nortriptyine + zinc + rTMS.
Linkadge
Posted by Horse on August 12, 2016, at 0:41:23
In reply to Re: treatment resistand MDD, now what?, posted by Hello321 on August 8, 2016, at 14:40:36
Sleep deprivation, more like getting up early for a few days. For me, the effect is a profound kick start but not sustainable.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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