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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Chris O on June 26, 2014, at 0:37:49
Just got my labs back from my annual physical. As it's been for the past 4 years, my vitamin D is low (29ng/ml). I live in sunny southern California and am outside often. I have been taking vitamin D supplements (1000-5000IU a day) off and on for the past couple of months. It doesn't seem to matter much what I do the lab levels always come back in the 20s. I know that at one time my vitamin D levels were in the 40s, and it was when I was taking the Carlson's cod liver oil vitamin D, but who even knows if that was responsible for the higher level. My doctor does not seem much concerned about the low levels as they are supposedly common and I am "just below normal." But I think there is some relationship between my anxiety, depression (and perhaps even sleep apnea and inability to sleep well) and the low vitamin D levels. I don't know which one causes the other, but I think there is some causal relationship. What do others think about this?
Chris
Posted by linkadge on June 26, 2014, at 5:46:50
In reply to Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D?, posted by Chris O on June 26, 2014, at 0:37:49
I think vitamin D needs fat to be properly absorbed. The COD liver oil may have resulted in better absorption. You could try taking your vitamin D with a high fat meal (or just dissolving it in a TSP of olive oil).
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on June 26, 2014, at 9:36:17
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D?, posted by linkadge on June 26, 2014, at 5:46:50
I just got my labs back and vita D was one that was ordered it was in the mid 50's so was good. Doesn't explain anxiety, depression though. They say there is a correlation too. Aren't there some other illnesses involved also with low levels? Phillipa
Posted by Chris O on June 26, 2014, at 11:31:32
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D?, posted by linkadge on June 26, 2014, at 5:46:50
Thanks, Link. I thought that might be the case as well.
Chris
Posted by Phil on June 27, 2014, at 16:11:50
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D? » linkadge, posted by Chris O on June 26, 2014, at 11:31:32
had mine checked a month ago....5. a bit low. just a bit.
Posted by Chris O on June 27, 2014, at 17:31:10
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D? » Chris O, posted by Phil on June 27, 2014, at 16:11:50
"5," eh? That is low. I think mine was at 16 four years ago. Now it always seem to hover in the high 20s. I wonder what it all means, if anything. Have you tried massive supplementation, gotten it up, and noticed any difference in mood?
Chris
Posted by Phil on June 27, 2014, at 17:38:29
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D? » Phil, posted by Chris O on June 27, 2014, at 17:31:10
No, 2000iu. I trust my gp. I read yesterday that massive doses probably aren't a good idea. 4000 max. I need to be in the sun 20 minutes a day with no sunscreen. great, more skin cancer. Not a good day, chris.
my doctors PA said she had never seen it that low. Leave it to me. I saw the chart and thought, my, that looked like my algebra II grades in high school.
Posted by Tomatheus on June 27, 2014, at 19:56:30
In reply to Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D?, posted by Chris O on June 26, 2014, at 0:37:49
Chris,
I had my vitamin D level checked once, and it was low: at 21.9 ng/mL, which is in the "insufficient" range. As you may know, I've been supplementing with vitamin D3 for close to five months now. I seemed to notice good things at first as far as my chronic fatigue symptoms are concerned, but I haven't noticed any benefits that I can attribute to the vitamin D3 in some time now. I've actually reduced my vitamin D3 dose from 3,200 IU to 2,000 IU because of an increase in pseudohallucinations that may or may not have been related to the fact that I've been taking vitamin D3 (I actually noticed an increase in pseudohallucinations first after reducing my Abilify, but then noticed a *second* increase in pseudohallucinations after bringing my Abilify dose back up to its usual level, which led me to reduce my D3 dose).
At any rate, I know that a one-person anecdotal experiment doesn't mean much of anything as far as real evidence is concerned, but with me not experiencing any kind of significant response to the vitamin D3 at this point, I tend to think that at least my chronic fatigue symptoms probably aren't caused by my vitamin D3 level being low. Might a low status still contribute causally to depression, anxiety, and other mental health conditions? I think it's possible that it might. Low vitamin D levels could conceivably explain some of the biochemical abnormalities that have come up for depression and other disorders, but then again, maybe the low vitamin D and the biochemical abnormalities that might come along with it could be caused by depressive behaviors that include spending a disproportionate amount of time indoors. As far as vitamin D and depression (and other psychiatric disorders are concerned) are concerned, I think that the jury is still out on what causes what.
At least that's my understanding of things.
Did you notice any improved feelings of well being when your vitamin D levels were in the 40s?
Tomatheus
Posted by Chris O on June 28, 2014, at 11:02:51
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D?, posted by Tomatheus on June 27, 2014, at 19:56:30
Tomatheus:
Thanks for responding to me. No, I did not notice any difference when I tested and my vitamin D levels were in the 40s. I thought at first, maybe there was some difference. But upon deeper consideration, if there was any increase in mood, it was negligible. Also, I live in sunny southern California (really sunny for the past year, almost no rain), and I made it point to be in the sun for many, many hours before seeing the doctor for my blood work a couple of weeks ago. For my vitamin D still to be this low, after spending 10-20 hours in quality sunlight, there is definitely something not happening with my body's ability to produce it. Or, my massive anxiety/depression is perhaps decreasing my vitamin D levels. Or, there is some other reason that I cannot even fathom. Who knows? But the fact that my B-12 is chronically low too makes me think it has something to do with my mental health issues.
Nothing on the hallucination end while taking vitamin D supplements. But we all seem to react differently to these drugs and supplements.
I listened to an interesting talk a few months ago (can't remember where) about a meta-analysis of all the different studies with vitamin D. One conclusion of that analysis was that people in the mid range (40s, 50s, 60s) had the best health outcomes and those in the lower (10s, 20s, 30s) and higher (70s, 80s, 90s) ranges had higher death rates. That was one of the main findings of that meta-analysis. Not a very hopeful one for those of us with low D levels.
Chris
Posted by Chris O on June 28, 2014, at 11:09:44
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D? » Chris O, posted by Phil on June 27, 2014, at 17:38:29
Hey, Phil:
Has being in the sun raised your vitamin D levels? I was just telling Tomatheus that I live in southern California and am outside a lot. In fact, I made a point of getting massive doses of quality sun before getting my blood work last month. It doesn't appear to raise my vitamin D levels. This makes me think something (such as my mental health issues) keeps my vitamin D chronically low or that there is something not working in my body that converts sunlight to vitamin D. Supposedly, fair-skinned people can convert uV radiation into 10,000-25,000 IU of vitamin D in 30 minutes or less. If that's true, I should be getting more than enough vitamin D in my normal daily life. But it's not happening, and hasn't been happening for at least five years. Kind of a bummer.
Chris
Posted by Phil on June 28, 2014, at 12:24:11
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D? » Phil, posted by Chris O on June 28, 2014, at 11:09:44
i read that vitamin D is not actually a vitamin but don't remember what it actually is. i saw it on wiki. not the greatest source.
"Although vitamin D is commonly called a vitamin, it is not actually an essential dietary vitamin in the strict sense, as it can be synthesized in adequate amounts by most mammals exposed to sunlight."
I know one thing, it is essential and affects so many things in your body.
Posted by Tomatheus on June 28, 2014, at 13:54:40
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D? » Tomatheus, posted by Chris O on June 28, 2014, at 11:02:51
Hi Chris,
It certainly seems to be puzzling as to why your vitamin D levels have remained as low as they've been, even after getting lots of sun exposure down there in sunny southern California. I suppose that you still have the option of taking the cod liver oil again to raise your vitamin D level, even though doing so wouldn't likely have much of an effect on your mood and anxiety (since, as you said, it didn't make much of a difference when you tried the cod liver oil previously). It might be good to take for longevity reasons, if nothing else. And yes, I too have heard that having a low vitamin D level is a risk factor for not living so long, although I didn't know that having a vitamin D level above the optimal range was associated with a higher death rate. That makes some sense, though, as too little or too much of any hormone in the body typically tends to be problematic, from what I understand.
Anyway, thanks for your response, and I hope that you're doing well.
Tomatheus
Posted by Phillipa on June 28, 2014, at 21:10:34
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D? » Chris O, posted by Phil on June 28, 2014, at 12:24:11
Phil true and could be a form of hormone. Phillipa
Posted by Phil on June 29, 2014, at 12:38:17
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D? » Phil, posted by Phillipa on June 28, 2014, at 21:10:34
I guess so phillipa. i don't know if anyone has run that test. vitamin D is so important.
Posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2014, at 21:12:43
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D? » Phillipa, posted by Phil on June 29, 2014, at 12:38:17
Both my endo and internist ran this on me. Just a month ago in the 50's same as the time before. Phillipa
Posted by babbler20 on July 11, 2014, at 22:24:11
In reply to Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D?, posted by Chris O on June 26, 2014, at 0:37:49
Hi, I also live in So Cal and I had the same problem for years. The whole vitamin D thing is media-hype. I had very low vitamin d for years and I tried supplementation but it didn't change. Once I started getting significantly more sun it changed and reached normal levels, but I didn't feel any different. Obviously people who are depressed are going to stay inside more often because they are depresssed and likely anxious and can't afford to do some of the outdoor activities that others do. The media tried to turn this into a two-way coorelation, but it really isn't. The depression came first not the low vitamin d.
Posted by Chris O on July 12, 2014, at 15:48:21
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D?, posted by babbler20 on July 11, 2014, at 22:24:11
I hear you, babbler. What puzzles me though is the fact that I am out in the sun--a lot--and my vitamin D is still low. I mean, I took a couple of 2 hour hikes in extreme heat and sun the week before I went to the doctor. I've read that you can get huge amounts of vitamin D (like 20,000 IUs) by getting as little as 30 minutes of full sun exposure. It appears that something is not working in my body to produce this hormone, or my depression crap is suppressing it.
Chris
Posted by babbler20 on July 14, 2014, at 0:01:01
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D? » babbler20, posted by Chris O on July 12, 2014, at 15:48:21
I believe I've read that it takes months of consistent sun exposure to actually raise your levels. You would think if you get 20,000 IU one day and 20,000 the next, you would have 40,000 in your blood stream, but it doesn't work that way.
Posted by Chris O on July 14, 2014, at 11:39:51
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D?, posted by babbler20 on July 14, 2014, at 0:01:01
Right, I understand. I guess it just seems that I must be getting a lot. I'm a California native plant enthusiast, so I'm outside gardening a lot. It would have been interesting if I knew my D levels as a younger person (I'm 48 now) to compare them with my levels now. Since my anxiety and depression are a chronic lifetime disorder, I suspect in relationship between D levels and my mental health would have showed up back then as well. Thanks for interacting with me on this issue, babbler.
Chris
Posted by Phillipa on July 14, 2014, at 21:04:02
In reply to Re: Anyone else have chronically low vitamin D? » babbler20, posted by Chris O on July 14, 2014, at 11:39:51
I wonder if there are statistics on living in Southern hemispheres and rates of depression? Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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