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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SLS on March 19, 2014, at 7:27:42
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? Who has had success?, posted by stargazer2 on March 18, 2014, at 22:28:15
> I thought I would hear from those who have had the TMS treatment. I guess not too many have from the lack of responses. I would rather try something like this than stay on the med merry go round which has had limited success for over 30 years. I have no other alternatives or at least that is my impression of what else there is to try.
>
> Thanks Scott for at least responding. It's nice to know I am not alone on th planet 'Depression'.You are not alone. Not at all. It's hard to account for why someone's post should not garner a reply. It happens to me all of the time. It can be upsetting.
I am considering going for either the original Neurostar rTMS or the newer Brainsway deep TMS. As I get closer to making a decision, I will try to consult with a few experts in the field. I intend to remain on medication.
- Scott
Posted by stargazer2 on March 19, 2014, at 23:41:29
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? Who has had success? » stargazer2, posted by SLS on March 19, 2014, at 7:27:42
Thanks for responding.
I have started the "shallow"as opposed to the newly defined "deep" rTMS and am in the second week. No change in my mood so far. My rating on the depression scale is 27 out of 27 so I have a long way to go to get in the single digits. I'm still on Latuda 60, Nardil 15 (restarted just a few days ago due to increase in SI) and Lithium 300.
My doc called tonight to say he reviewed my records(20+ years, right?)and sees that I did best on Celexa, Wellbutrin and Adderall back in 2000. I had told him that multiple times in the last 10 years and he didn't say much about it and since then I have been on the merry go round. He thinks maybe we should try that combo again.
Scott, BTW do you live in New England? I thought I may have seem that somewhere. I'm in CT. Thanks for all the input of your posts if I'm able to understand them, many times my brain is too distracted/unfocused to read much of anything.
SG
Posted by stargazer2 on March 22, 2014, at 22:49:56
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? Who has had success?, posted by stargazer2 on March 19, 2014, at 23:41:29
No time to wait for others to give me their opinion on TMS. It is my last resort so I have started it and have already had 10 treatments so far. Too early to say what it is doing but I am somewhat optimistic. I spoke with the author of the book "3,000 Pulses" Martha Rhodes who had TMS 3 years ago and is now a TMS advcoate. She has offered to support me eotionally during my course of TMS (6 weeks)and help me appeal the expected denial by my insuror, Medicare Advantage under Connecticare. Anthem is covering it without question as are many other insurors, so why some approve and some deny should not legitimately be a reason to deny.
Posted by babbler20 on March 25, 2014, at 17:53:51
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? Doing it anyway, posted by stargazer2 on March 22, 2014, at 22:49:56
Hi, I've done 6 treatments of TMS so f*rt without any benefit. I'll keep you posted on my status. Where are you at with your treatment?
Posted by stargazer2 on March 26, 2014, at 14:03:07
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? Doing it anyway, posted by babbler20 on March 25, 2014, at 17:53:51
Babbler,
Just had my #13 treatment today. I really don't notice anything either. One woman, the author of the book " 3,000 Pulses" said it wasn't until the 19th treatment that she started to see things in a lighter way. It seems as though most everyone in the office I go to improved to some degree.Are you in a desparate situation like I feel I am, i.e. suicidal? Is your treatment being covered by insurance. Mine isn't and I will appeal the denial but it still is nerve racking to have to put out that much money. I continue to have hope for improvement although after 2 weeks it still seems like an eternity waiting for something to happen.
P.S. We can babblemail if you would like at sometime. I think it would help to have another person going through this to be able to connect
with. It is such an isolating illness.Stargazer
Posted by SLS on March 26, 2014, at 14:41:10
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? Doing it anyway, posted by stargazer2 on March 26, 2014, at 14:03:07
> It is such an isolating illness.
That's a perfect description.
Do you feel any less isolated when you connect with people on Psycho-Babble?
- Scott
Posted by stargazer2 on March 26, 2014, at 14:45:50
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? Doing it anyway » stargazer2, posted by SLS on March 26, 2014, at 14:41:10
Yes, I suppose I do in some way. I still wish sometimes I could meet others who I have connected with and with whom I feel knowing them would help me better deal with this illness. I think if I could talk on the phone with a few other posters going through similar situations would be beneficial with my feeling so alone.
How about you? How do you deal with feeling so alone with an illness so many say they have but I know they don't exactly know what I'm dealing with.
Stargazer
Posted by babbler20 on March 26, 2014, at 18:08:15
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? Doing it anyway, posted by stargazer2 on March 26, 2014, at 14:03:07
> Babbler,
> Just had my #13 treatment today. I really don't notice anything either. One woman, the author of the book " 3,000 Pulses" said it wasn't until the 19th treatment that she started to see things in a lighter way. It seems as though most everyone in the office I go to improved to some degree.
>
> Are you in a desparate situation like I feel I am, i.e. suicidal? Is your treatment being covered by insurance. Mine isn't and I will appeal the denial but it still is nerve racking to have to put out that much money. I continue to have hope for improvement although after 2 weeks it still seems like an eternity waiting for something to happen.
>
> P.S. We can babblemail if you would like at sometime. I think it would help to have another person going through this to be able to connect
> with. It is such an isolating illness.
>
> Stargazer
>
>Hi Stargazer,
Most of the studies I read about say that it takes 4 to 6 weeks to work, so It's not unusual that we haven't experienced improvement yet. I'm in a pretty desperate situation as well. I was laid off from work about 6 months ago, and due to the sleep deprivation, depression, and anxiety I've been experiencing, I have been unable to find another job. I've been suicidal since I was 8, so I'm not as concerned about it as I once was. Suicidal thoughts are just a part of life for me and I've learned to accept them. How long have you been depressed for? Do you have bipolar or unipolar depression. Do you have major insomnia problems as well. If TMS just helps my insomnia, I'll be glad I went through the process. At a bare minimum, I need to sleep more than 5 hours a night to function. I have Blue Shield Of California Platinum PPO insurance and they do cover it. There is another form of TMS called Deep TMS that is supposed to be much more effective than the Neurostar TMS we are getting. Hopefully, our insurance companies will eventually cover Deep TMS and we can get that done if this doesn't work. Have you had any success with SSRI's? I've tried all of them as well as a few tricyclics and I haven't had any relief. The only drug that helped me was Parnate, but it really started to wear me down after a year on it, so I had to stop. I'll keep you updated on my progress and best of luck to you over the next couple weeks.
Posted by SLS on March 26, 2014, at 18:13:26
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? Doing it anyway, posted by stargazer2 on March 26, 2014, at 14:45:50
> How about you? How do you deal with feeling so alone with an illness so many say they have but I know they don't exactly know what I'm dealing with.
I don't know.
Survival instinct?
I held on to hope that I would one day be treated successfully.
I truly believe that life is worth living when one is not imprisoned and suffocated by a crushing depression. I decided to take the gamble. I have gambled that my illness would be cured or brought into remission soon enough so that I could enjoy life in my remaining years. My remaining years are passing by all too quickly. Perhaps I have already lost the bet? I don't know.
I lived through my 30s in solitude. The only people I spoke to were my parents. No friends. No enemies. I was very fortunate that my parents believed that my illness was neurobiological, so I didn't have to be completely alone in life. My suffering was acknowledged, even if it wasn't well understood.
I take 7 drugs. I am perhaps 35% improved. It is worth it. I am improved enough to venture out of the house and maintain a few relationships. Still, I am reliant on hope to choose life over death. This is made easier by my being improved enough not to be plagued by neurobiological suicidal states.
- Scott
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2014, at 3:31:07
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? Doing it anyway, posted by stargazer2 on March 26, 2014, at 14:45:50
> I still wish sometimes I could meet others who I have connected with and with whom I feel knowing them would help me better deal with this illness.
In case you haven't been to Social lately, Babblers might be meeting at various times in various places:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20140129/msgs/1061912.html
Bob
Posted by stargazer2 on March 31, 2014, at 18:09:55
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? Doing it anyway » stargazer2, posted by SLS on March 26, 2014, at 18:13:26
SLS< I guess you are lucky to want to still live...that thought becomes farther and farther away the longer I am plagued with this illness. You can't explain something you don't even understand to those who do not suffer from it. They simply look at you and the confusion in their eyes tells the whole story .
My family are the least to try and understand or offer me any hope..they simply do not get it.
I am so alone. I welcome death everyday. I wish there was a way I could fulfill that wish to die especially as I do not see any improvement with TMS.
SG
Posted by SLS on March 31, 2014, at 21:25:11
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? SLS, posted by stargazer2 on March 31, 2014, at 18:09:55
> SLS< I guess you are lucky to want to still live...
I guess I was blessed with optimism and resilience. Still, every man has his limits and breaking points.
I'm glad that you continue to connect with people by posting here. I think you will find support, understanding, and draw positive energy from others.
- Scott
Posted by babbler20 on April 3, 2014, at 20:36:31
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? SLS, posted by stargazer2 on March 31, 2014, at 18:09:55
> SLS< I guess you are lucky to want to still live...that thought becomes farther and farther away the longer I am plagued with this illness. You can't explain something you don't even understand to those who do not suffer from it. They simply look at you and the confusion in their eyes tells the whole story .
>
> My family are the least to try and understand or offer me any hope..they simply do not get it.
>
> I am so alone. I welcome death everyday. I wish there was a way I could fulfill that wish to die especially as I do not see any improvement with TMS.
>
> SGHi, my family doesn't get it at all either. My mom is convinced that I can just think my way out of it and my father says things like "go for a walk around the block and you will feel better" and "Take a nice,hot shower." Are you noticing any improvement yet? Talk to you soon.
Posted by stargazer2 on April 3, 2014, at 21:17:12
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? SLS, posted by babbler20 on April 3, 2014, at 20:36:31
At least someone talks to you that tries to understand even thou to you they are clueless. I wish severe depression, not the garden variety type, was everyone's affliction. Then they would get it. It has to be impacting their life to get it. Its as selfish as that
Posted by babbler20 on April 4, 2014, at 23:00:34
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? babbler20, posted by stargazer2 on April 3, 2014, at 21:17:12
> At least someone talks to you that tries to understand even thou to you they are clueless. I wish severe depression, not the garden variety type, was everyone's affliction. Then they would get it. It has to be impacting their life to get it. Its as selfish as that
I agree with you. I'm 3 weeks into TMS and so far I haven't experienced any relief. How about you?
Posted by stargazer2 on April 6, 2014, at 10:43:37
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? babbler20, posted by babbler20 on April 4, 2014, at 23:00:34
No improvement with TMS after 4 weeks, 20 treatments. Usually I would have expected some improvement before this point.
My pdoc just had me increase my Nardil from 15 mg to 75 mg to see if that would get me out of the suicidal thinking before the TMS has a chance to work. Unfortunately I will not know if it is the Meds or TMS that may work.
The story of my life. Uncertainty and dread.
Please send good wishes my way...I am desparate for help. What did I do to deserve a life like this? So many awful people live lives worth living (I think) and I have suffered too long with no end in sight for reasons unknown.
Posted by babbler20 on April 6, 2014, at 12:54:53
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? babbler20, posted by stargazer2 on April 6, 2014, at 10:43:37
> No improvement with TMS after 4 weeks, 20 treatments. Usually I would have expected some improvement before this point.
>
> My pdoc just had me increase my Nardil from 15 mg to 75 mg to see if that would get me out of the suicidal thinking before the TMS has a chance to work. Unfortunately I will not know if it is the Meds or TMS that may work.
>
> The story of my life. Uncertainty and dread.
>
> Please send good wishes my way...I am desparate for help. What did I do to deserve a life like this? So many awful people live lives worth living (I think) and I have suffered too long with no end in sight for reasons unknown.I really hope TMS works for you. From what I've heard, it takes 4 weeks on average to work. Since we aren't average cases, I would assume it may take 6 to 8 weeks. If you get better, I'm going to assume it's the TMS because I don't have all that much faith in antidepressants. Best of luck to you. Let me know how you are doing in a week or so and I'll update you on my status as well. Take care.
Posted by babbler20 on April 11, 2014, at 16:08:16
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? babbler20, posted by stargazer2 on April 6, 2014, at 10:43:37
> No improvement with TMS after 4 weeks, 20 treatments. Usually I would have expected some improvement before this point.
>
> My pdoc just had me increase my Nardil from 15 mg to 75 mg to see if that would get me out of the suicidal thinking before the TMS has a chance to work. Unfortunately I will not know if it is the Meds or TMS that may work.
>
> The story of my life. Uncertainty and dread.
>
> Please send good wishes my way...I am desparate for help. What did I do to deserve a life like this? So many awful people live lives worth living (I think) and I have suffered too long with no end in sight for reasons unknown.Hi Stargazer,
I jut finished my 20th treatment, but haven't noticed any improvement yet. How are you doing? Any improvement on your end?
Posted by stargazer2 on April 12, 2014, at 13:33:33
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? babbler20, posted by babbler20 on April 11, 2014, at 16:08:16
Hi Babbler, I completed the 25th treatment this past Friday and showed some improvment in my depression after the 21st treatment, although Nardil 75 mg was added about the same time so it's
hard to say it is exclusively the TMS or the medication but in either case, I am feeling better so that is positive.I hope you begin to feel better too. Are you on any meds. If so, which ones at which doses.
They say when you are on TMS, meds can start to work better so it may make sense to try and add a med that might have had some effect no matter how
insignificant a response. Have you ever tried a MAO i.e. Nardil , Marplan or Parnate?
Posted by babbler20 on April 15, 2014, at 17:42:19
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? babbler20, posted by stargazer2 on April 12, 2014, at 13:33:33
> Hi Babbler, I completed the 25th treatment this past Friday and showed some improvment in my depression after the 21st treatment, although Nardil 75 mg was added about the same time so it's
> hard to say it is exclusively the TMS or the medication but in either case, I am feeling better so that is positive.
>
> I hope you begin to feel better too. Are you on any meds. If so, which ones at which doses.
>
> They say when you are on TMS, meds can start to work better so it may make sense to try and add a med that might have had some effect no matter how
> insignificant a response. Have you ever tried a MAO i.e. Nardil , Marplan or Parnate?Hi, I'm so glad you are feeling bettter. I just completed my 22nd treatment and still haven't noticed any difference in depression or sleep. I take 100 mg of Luvox currently and have tried everything else. I'm still on Luvox because the withdrawal is horrible. I tried Parnate once and at 100 mg it was amazing for depression, but I couldn't take the insomnia anymore, so I got off of it. I hope you continue to improve. Talk to you soon.
Posted by stargazer2 on April 15, 2014, at 18:11:08
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? babbler20, posted by babbler20 on April 15, 2014, at 17:42:19
Babbler,
Is your treeatment covered by insurance? Mine was denied and i have to appeal the denial.
If Parnate was so amazing, why wasn't a solution for the insomnia looked at rather than giving up on amazing med for depression. I am having sleep related issue with Nardil but feel that it is too risky to give up and sink back into the suicidal black hole without it, sleep issues or not.
MAOs are the only meds than make any dent in the depression and I can't take the risk of relapsing even with some side effects, like insomnia and solmnolence.
Thoughts for you having a response very soon.
Posted by babbler20 on April 17, 2014, at 21:27:51
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? babbler20, posted by stargazer2 on April 15, 2014, at 18:11:08
> Babbler,
>
> Is your treeatment covered by insurance? Mine was denied and i have to appeal the denial.
>
> If Parnate was so amazing, why wasn't a solution for the insomnia looked at rather than giving up on amazing med for depression. I am having sleep related issue with Nardil but feel that it is too risky to give up and sink back into the suicidal black hole without it, sleep issues or not.
>
> MAOs are the only meds than make any dent in the depression and I can't take the risk of relapsing even with some side effects, like insomnia and solmnolence.
>
> Thoughts for you having a response very soon.Hi, Blue Shield is covering all my treatments. I've almost completed 5 weeks of treatment and feel nothing, however. Unfortunately, the only thing that alleviates my insomnia is remeron and it's contraindicated with Parnate. Do you know anyone else that got TMS? Did they benefit from the procedure?
Posted by stargazer2 on April 18, 2014, at 7:34:43
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? babbler20, posted by babbler20 on April 17, 2014, at 21:27:51
Did you try Trazadone for insomnia? I would rather be a sleep deprived zombie than someone with the type of depression I have. I guess it's all what you can tolerate, depression or insomnia.
My dpression is life threatening so there is no comparison with what gets my precedence.I know a woman who wrote a book called " 7000 pulses" after her experience with depression and TMS. You can probably google it at Amazon if you want to read her story. She had success after 19 TMS treatments and goes for maintenence every month or so to maintain her stability and to prevent relapse.
I finish my 30 treatments today and then begin a taper, 3 times a week, followed by 2 times then once for the next 3 weeks.
Stargazer
Posted by kirkglen on April 26, 2014, at 16:02:24
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? babbler20, posted by stargazer2 on April 18, 2014, at 7:34:43
Stargazer
I never read if TMS helped or not for you.
I read your post on ending life as depression was to much.
I don't know how to measure but I assure you I've been in the deepest black hole I think one could go.
I sat there trying numerous psycho drugs which just added to my demise.Then I was in my teens and had "hope" and I was given Nardil. After 6 wks. at 90 mgs. my brain started working in overdrive. Life was great , I was normal. Then as you know the formula was changed and "the day I received the new formula" life returned to the black hole. Now I'm a age hope isn't there. I've run out of money, can't work, etc. but instead of believing in the pharms I read and have started asking myself why AD's work. No one knows, just theories. Like I said I take Nardil and I know you have to have neurotransmitters for it to work. So why not start assuring I have the ingredients to make them and then maybe Nardil will kick in again. I know as we age serotonin levels decrease.
Anyway currently I'm taking 60mg Nardil AM and washing down with 8 oz. of diet Sprite and drink the rest during the day. ( 16 ozs daily ) It "feels" as though I'm getting some positive results with the aspartame. If I continue feeling better I'll get some Liquid Amino Acids next week and start easing into adding them to my system.
Bottom line I'll keep searching, trying, as I believe we have a better chance of finding something for the other atypical depressed people. I have three children and I suspect the genetic side of illness.
So you hang in there and get your Nardil back to
60mg. Keep searching see where others are having some success.
Posted by stargazer2 on April 28, 2014, at 7:54:41
In reply to Re: Would you do TMS? babbler20, posted by kirkglen on April 26, 2014, at 16:02:24
Hi kirkglen. I'm on NArdil 75 and ending TMS after 30 sessions. I am no longer suicidal so that is a relief but still feel depressed at times. I'm in the maintenance phase, 3 times a week, followed by 2 times a week then once.
I have paid about 10K so far. Insurances vary as far as their coverability goes. Medicare pays the least since I am disabled and most desparate then others covered completely as Anthem BCBS does.Thanks for your good thoughts.
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