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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on October 27, 2013, at 20:37:52
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin, posted by gadchik on October 27, 2013, at 19:34:42
Same here. Was it melatonin that was at one time taken off the market? If so I tried it once when in late 20's and got scared as I didn't want to breath. Seriously so never took it again. P
Posted by gadchik on October 28, 2013, at 6:36:48
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » gadchik, posted by Phillipa on October 27, 2013, at 20:37:52
I hadnt heard about it getting taken off the mkt. But it's sold as a supplement, but its a hormone. Yeah, the not breathing thing scares me. When u take it with a benzo, u can get too sedated, but I take remeron with a benzo sometimes and it says that can cause too much sedation too. That's why I never drink alcohol now, because Im scared to combine with a benzo and stop breathing, but even my pdoc said I could have a glass of wine and be fine!
Posted by gadchik on October 28, 2013, at 9:51:34
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin, posted by gadchik on October 28, 2013, at 6:36:48
P, r u still taking Luvox? I did read somewhere that it is the only ad that increases melatonin in the body.
Posted by Phillipa on October 28, 2013, at 10:22:09
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin, posted by gadchik on October 28, 2013, at 9:51:34
Really? I wish you had the link as would explain why that time a doc took me off it and didn't sleep for two weeks even with very high doses. The minute I added back the only 25mg of luvox and low dose benzo I slept again. P
Posted by doxogenic boy on October 28, 2013, at 10:44:32
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » gadchik, posted by Phillipa on October 28, 2013, at 10:22:09
> Really? I wish you had the link as would explain why that time a doc took me off it and didn't sleep for two weeks even with very high doses. The minute I added back the only 25mg of luvox and low dose benzo I slept again.
Couldn't it have been Luvox withdrawal?
- doxogenic
Posted by Phillipa on October 28, 2013, at 23:26:01
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » Phillipa, posted by doxogenic boy on October 28, 2013, at 10:44:32
I feel it was but just found this also. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 28, 2013, at 23:27:25
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » doxogenic boy, posted by Phillipa on October 28, 2013, at 23:26:01
Looks like you also must take melatonin with the luvox doesn't it?
Posted by gadchik on October 29, 2013, at 4:57:16
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin, posted by Phillipa on October 28, 2013, at 23:27:25
this study sounds that way...I thought luvox just increased the melatonin that's already produced by ur body
Posted by doxogenic boy on October 29, 2013, at 17:46:59
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin, posted by Phillipa on October 28, 2013, at 23:27:25
> Looks like you also must take melatonin with the luvox doesn't it?
To me it looks like you should avoid taking fluvoxamine and melatonin together.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15744215
Quote from the link above:
CNS Spectr. 2001 Jun;6(6):511-3.
Circadian rhythm sleep disorders as a possible side effect of fluvoxamine.
Hermesh H, Lemberg H, Abadi J, Dagan Y.
SourceOutpatients Department and the Anxiety Disorders and Behaviour Therapy Unit, the Geha Mental Health Center, Rabin Campus, Petach-Tiqva, Israel.
AbstractSleep problems, day somnolence, and fatigue as a result of psychotropic drugs are very common. Psychiatrists usually consider these effects a result of insomnia and treat them by prescribing sleeping pills or other benzodiazepine agents. We describe here 10 cases of circadian rhythm sleep disorders (CRSD)--and not merely insomnia--as a possible side effect of fluvoxamine (FVA). Two other serotonin reuptake inhibitors, fluoxetine and clomipramine, did not induce CRSD in any of these 10 patients. We speculate that FVA-induced CRSD is caused by the effect of FVA on serotonin and melatonin levels in the central nervous system. CRSD as a side effect of FVA can be treated by replacing the suspected FVA or adding melatonin to a beneficial FVA treatment. Thus, it is important to be aware of possible iatrogenic CRSD in order to treat appropriately. Prospective studies are needed to confirm our observation and to study the influence of other psychotropic drugs on sleep-wake schedule.
End quote.
-----------------------------
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11270913
Quote from the link above:J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2001 Apr;21(2):167-74.
Differential effects of fluvoxamine and other antidepressants on the biotransformation of melatonin.
Härtter S, Wang X, Weigmann H, Friedberg T, Arand M, Oesch F, Hiemke C.
SourceDepartment of Psychiatry, University of Mainz, Germany.
AbstractMelatonin, the predominant product of the pineal gland, is involved in the maintenance of diurnal rhythms. Nocturnal blood concentrations of melatonin have been shown to be enhanced by fluvoxamine, but not by other serotonin reuptake inhibitors. Because fluvoxamine is an inhibitor of several cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes, the authors studied the biotransformation of melatonin and the effects of fluvoxamine on the metabolism of melatonin in vitro using human liver microsomes and recombinant human CYP isoenzymes. Melatonin was found to be almost exclusively metabolized by CYP1A2 to 6-hydroxymelatonin and N-acetylserotonin with a minimal contribution of CYP2C19. Both reactions were potently inhibited by fluvoxamine, with a Ki of 0.02 microM for the formation of 6-hydroxymelatonin and 0.05 microM for the formation of N-acetylserotonin. Other than fluvoxamine, fluoxetine, paroxetine, citalopram, imipramine, and desipramine were also tested at 2 and 20 microM. Among the other antidepressants, only paroxetine was able to affect the metabolism of melatonin at supratherapeutic concentrations of 20 microM, which did not reach by far the magnitude of the inhibitory potency of fluvoxamine. The authors concluded that fluvoxamine is a potent inhibitor of melatonin degradation. Because this inhibitory action is also found in vivo, fluvoxamine might be used as an enhancer of melatonin, which might offer new therapeutic possibilities of fluvoxamine.
End quote.
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http://www.cpnhelp.org/another_reason_to_take_meExcerpt from the article above:
Fluvoxamine (Luvox), an antidepressant, is known to increase natural melatonin production and it may also increase blood levels of melatonin if it is taken at the same time as melatonin supplementsi. If fluvoxamine and melatonin are taken together, the risk for side effects of melatonin may be increased.
End quote.
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http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080412/msgs/823044.htmlExcerpt from the message above:
A molecule related to fluoxetine, fluvoxamine (Luvox) naturally increases blood levels of melatonin. When fluvoxamine and melatonin are taken at the same time, blood levels of melatonin are significantly higher than if the melatonin were taken by itself. The result of this interaction is an increase in melatonin side effects (eg. headache, nausea, and increased drowsiness). Whether this results in any real danger (in most cases) is doubtful, although the literature does not recommend taking melatonin and fluvoxamine together.The drug interaction between fluvoxamine and melatonin is probably due to fluvoxamine's inhibition of the cytochrome P450 system (CYP); specifically CYP1A2 and CYP2C9 isoenzymes.
End quote.- doxogenic
Posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2013, at 21:24:29
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » Phillipa, posted by doxogenic boy on October 29, 2013, at 17:46:59
I don't take it but it sounds like just the low dose of luvox could be why I sleep pretty well now. Phillipa
Posted by doxogenic boy on October 30, 2013, at 10:45:06
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » doxogenic boy, posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2013, at 21:24:29
> I don't take it but it sounds like just the low dose of luvox could be why I sleep pretty well now.
Yes, this is probably due to Luvox's effect on melatonin. Do you take it in the evening/night, and are you tired in the morning?
- doxogenic
Posted by Phillipa on October 30, 2013, at 20:59:52
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » Phillipa, posted by doxogenic boy on October 30, 2013, at 10:45:06
Take at bedtime with low dose benzo no not tired in am. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 9, 2013, at 21:26:08
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » doxogenic boy, posted by Phillipa on October 30, 2013, at 20:59:52
I've also decided to cut out the 2.5mg of Lexapro that I was taking with it. Reason kept taking it was it caused me to wake earlier than without it. So If I do this I should be able to cut down or out the 7.5mg of valium & .5mg of Xanax I take at night. I feel the worse in the morning and as the day goes on I wake more. So I'm thinking the Lexapro is cancelling the luvox and then causing me to take the benzos. Any thoughts on this? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by doxogenic boy on November 11, 2013, at 12:18:14
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on November 9, 2013, at 21:26:08
> I've also decided to cut out the 2.5mg of Lexapro that I was taking with it. Reason kept taking it was it caused me to wake earlier than without it. So If I do this I should be able to cut down or out the 7.5mg of valium & .5mg of Xanax I take at night. I feel the worse in the morning and as the day goes on I wake more. So I'm thinking the Lexapro is cancelling the luvox and then causing me to take the benzos. Any thoughts on this?
----
I think it is worth trying to cut out the Lexapro, but have you tried to cut down og cut out Valium and Xanax before?- doxogenic
Posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2013, at 20:04:14
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » Phillipa, posted by doxogenic boy on November 11, 2013, at 12:18:14
Since I only take at night my cutting of pills is splitting with fingers so never accurate. So the dose is always up and down. Phillipa
Posted by doxogenic boy on November 13, 2013, at 18:02:30
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » doxogenic boy, posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2013, at 20:04:14
> Since I only take at night my cutting of pills is splitting with fingers so never accurate. So the dose is always up and down.
Do you feel any difference with different doses?
- doxogenic
Posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2013, at 21:31:19
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » Phillipa, posted by doxogenic boy on November 13, 2013, at 18:02:30
Not really when wake each morning feel horrible. Still can't figure out if the synthroid or the meds. Thoughts? Phillipa
Posted by doxogenic boy on November 14, 2013, at 7:40:39
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » doxogenic boy, posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2013, at 21:31:19
> Not really when wake each morning feel horrible. Still can't figure out if the synthroid or the meds. Thoughts?
I am not sure, but do you have any of these side effects?
http://www.synthroid.com/whatissynthroid/sideeffects.aspxQuote from the link above:
Rapid or irregular heartbeat
Chest pain or shortness of breath
Muscle weakness
Nervousness
Irritability
Sleeplessness
Tremors
Change in appetite
Weight loss
Vomiting
Frequent bowel movements
Excessive sweating
Heat intolerance
Fever
Impaired fertility
Decreased bone density
Changes in menstrual periods
Other unusual medical events
End quote.See also this site:
http://www.patient.co.uk/forums/discuss/unacceptable-side-effects-of-levothyroxine-30055- doxogenic
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2013, at 8:34:09
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » Phillipa, posted by doxogenic boy on November 14, 2013, at 7:40:39
Only one I have is the bone density. Had osteoporosis, osteo arthritis, bone spurs, spinal stenosis and back pain no matter what I do has severely impacted my daily activities. Hence since it sounds like both synthroid and SSRI's could be involved in the bone density and feeling like I have to get doing something, anything, coud it be the 25mg of luvox, 2.5mg of Lexapro, .75 of Xanax (hard to break the lmg pill into two pices one for bed and then one when wake early) and the 7.5 mg of valium same issue with breaking meds. I think a lot is knowing I'm getting old and can't do what I could. But then look at others my age and they are perfectly fine and functioning in running and other things I used to love to do. Phillipa
Posted by doxogenic boy on November 14, 2013, at 10:26:32
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » doxogenic boy, posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2013, at 8:34:09
> Only one I have is the bone density. Had osteoporosis, osteo arthritis, bone spurs, spinal stenosis and back pain no matter what I do has severely impacted my daily activities. Hence since it sounds like both synthroid and SSRI's could be involved in the bone density and feeling like I have to get doing something, anything, coud it be the 25mg of luvox, 2.5mg of Lexapro, .75 of Xanax (hard to break the lmg pill into two pices one for bed and then one when wake early) and the 7.5 mg of valium same issue with breaking meds. I think a lot is knowing I'm getting old and can't do what I could. But then look at others my age and they are perfectly fine and functioning in running and other things I used to love to do.
Maybe you find out what drug(s) that cause(s) the problems if you taper off one drug at a time.
- doxogenic
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2013, at 19:30:41
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » Phillipa, posted by doxogenic boy on November 14, 2013, at 10:26:32
Till off all. But I was told I need synthroid for life?
Posted by doxogenic boy on November 15, 2013, at 9:56:16
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » doxogenic boy, posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2013, at 19:30:41
> Till off all.
I don't understand what you say. Have you started to taper off now, or have you tried that earlier?
> But I was told I need synthroid for life?
Maybe you can try to taper off Lexapro first, then the benzo. Perhaps then the side effects are gone. Have you discussed this with your doctor?
- doxogenic
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2013, at 20:03:01
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » Phillipa, posted by doxogenic boy on November 15, 2013, at 9:56:16
Since my pdoc is a big idiot and even my neighbor who also has him says the same. We both see him just to get the scripts and then do our own thing. Only 2 pdocs taking medicaire here. Other forensic pdoc. So Lexapro is quite easy to stop. But if stop it will sleep longer. So it's a catch 22 do I want off all Lexapro or taper benzos also?
Posted by doxogenic boy on November 16, 2013, at 8:08:19
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » doxogenic boy, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2013, at 20:03:01
> Since my pdoc is a big idiot and even my neighbor who also has him says the same. We both see him just to get the scripts and then do our own thing. Only 2 pdocs taking medicaire here.
Could you drive to another town to get another pdoc?
> Other forensic pdoc. So Lexapro is quite easy to stop. But if stop it will sleep longer. So it's a catch 22 do I want off all Lexapro or taper benzos also?
It isn't irreversible, you can go back to Lexapro and benzos if it doesn't work as you want to without them. But you should preferably be sure that you want to try this before you do. It took months for me to taper clonazepam, and therefore I had no withdrawal. I now use clonazepam only a few times in a month.
- doxogenic
Posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2013, at 19:31:04
In reply to Re: Pubmed Article Benzos and Melatonin » Phillipa, posted by doxogenic boy on November 16, 2013, at 8:08:19
Oh I want off them. The question is that at my age and it's 67 can I do this? I was never depressed till developed medical conditions out of my control and only one that deals with any mental is thyroid. Which has helped to lead to osteoporosis, and fear of breaking bones. Add OA and all that and the fact that it is said that SSRI's can also thin bones. And the meds don't seem to work or if they do I don't know it what would you do. Personally I distrust docs in general now. Phillipa
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