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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by neo on July 31, 2013, at 14:31:49
Hi to all and excuse mi awful English.
Over 10y on Amis and i still don't know why it sometime works and sometimes fails.
I took it discontinuously (day in/day out for a week) cause continuous assumption fails within a couple of days (on me).
Anyway sometimes it give me a great help in mood, activity and energy, and sometimes it give me only sedation and somnolence.
I investigate the reason, without a real response: dosage, hour of assumption, distance from previous assumptiom, meals. No one seem to be the real reason.
The only one supposition is that there could be an interaction between Amis and Benzos (that I took at nite to sleep - Valium similiar Benzo).
But I still don't know HOW they interact: directly (greater effect of Ami using more benzos)? Inverse (less activation from Amis using Benzos)?
I use 12-25 mg of Ami and a small dosage of benzo at nite.
Do you have any experience to share or know someting about this?
Grazie e Ciao!!
Neo
Posted by SLS on July 31, 2013, at 14:41:47
In reply to AMISULPRIDE and BENZOS: what interaction?, posted by neo on July 31, 2013, at 14:31:49
Hi Neo.
How do you feel at 50 mg/day?
- Scott
Posted by neo on July 31, 2013, at 15:23:58
In reply to Re: AMISULPRIDE and BENZOS: what interaction? » neo, posted by SLS on July 31, 2013, at 14:41:47
> How do you feel at 50 mg/day?
Hi Scott,
50mg seem too much high for me.
I was on 50mg but i feel more sedated and drunk.
During the first half day i can't be focused on what i was doing.
That was the reason cause i went down to 25mg or less, with less side effects
Neo
Posted by neo on August 1, 2013, at 20:03:04
In reply to Re: AMISULPRIDE and BENZOS: what interaction? » SLS, posted by neo on July 31, 2013, at 15:23:58
In my experience, a single dosage of Amisulpride (after a week of wash out) do not rise prolactin, avoiding any side effects.
Producers report: "Elimination is rapid during the first 24 hours (T½ = 2 to 3 hours) with excretion of 80 to 98% of the total quantity excreted. Elimination slows after 24 hours (T½ = 12 to 19 hours)".
Don't know if that is the reason.
By the way, a single administration do not last over a couple of day, in my opinion...
Posted by andrewb on August 23, 2013, at 1:09:55
In reply to AMISULPRIDE and BENZOS: what interaction?, posted by neo on July 31, 2013, at 14:31:49
A few thoughts, let me know if there is anything I'm saying that you don't already know:
* amisulpride sometimes provides energy and motivation, but unfortunately I've never heard of that effect lasting. This seems to me to be a dopaminergic effect that tolerance quickly develops for.
* just as benzo.s can prevent tolerance to the stimulating effect of amphetamines, an equivalent interaction might be occurring with you.
*it is generally believed that sedation indicates too high of a dose of ami. When this occurs, you lower the dose to 25 and, if needed, further down to 12.5. If it still causes sedation when used continually at that dose it may not be your ideal medicine. Sedation indicates that the targeted d-2, d-3 auto receptors are full and the excess is going onto the d2, d3 receptors and thus acting like an anti-psychotic. BTW: ami. also acts via serotonin subreceptor 7 and possibly via prolactin.
*Benzo.s can be INCREDIBLY hard to withdraw from. If possible, don't use them. If that isn't possibly use them sporadically or take holidays from them.
Posted by neo on August 23, 2013, at 8:50:19
In reply to Re: AMISULPRIDE and BENZOS: what interaction?, posted by andrewb on August 23, 2013, at 1:09:55
Hi, and thanks for your post.
* amisulpride sometimes provides energy and motivation, but unfortunately I've never heard of that effect lasting. This seems to me to be a dopaminergic effect that tolerance quickly develops for.
Completely in accordance with you. Lots of years of Amis tests, and never it worked over a couple of days.
Anyway, Amis sometimes works and sometimes not, without a real reason. (even if used after a long period of wash-out)* just as benzo.s can prevent tolerance to the stimulating effect of amphetamines, an equivalent interaction might be occurring with you.
Yes, I was supposing that..... but was not sure.
*it is generally believed that sedation indicates too high of a dose of ami. When this occurs, you lower the dose to 25 and, if needed, further down to 12.5. If it still causes sedation when used continually at that dose it may not be your ideal medicine. Sedation indicates that the targeted d-2, d-3 auto receptors are full and the excess is going onto the d2, d3 receptors and thus acting like an anti-psychotic.
..unfortunely Amis is the only one that works for me (after tested probably every drug un the market, for mD or distymie) even if it works occasionally.
Yes, even a 12.5mg dosage lead me to sedation if used continuosly.
I'm thinking to stop every test of Amis.*Benzo.s can be INCREDIBLY hard to withdraw from. If possible, don't use them. If that isn't possibly use them sporadically or take holidays from them.
it's very hard.... I'm working on it.
Thank you very much for you share!
Posted by neo on August 23, 2013, at 10:59:13
In reply to Re: AMISULPRIDE and BENZOS: what interaction?, posted by andrewb on August 23, 2013, at 1:09:55
I forgot....
You say:
> * amisulpride sometimes provides energy and motivation, but unfortunately I've never heard of that effect lasting.<
You say that, in your experience, never known a dosage, timing or schedule of amis assumption, that provided a continuos effect on lifting mood and energy?
This is my opinion too (after years of tests). But I would like to know if it only MY opinion...
Many thanx and excuse my English...
Posted by andrewb on August 26, 2013, at 10:23:05
In reply to One more question..., posted by neo on August 23, 2013, at 10:59:13
Okay, we are in a swamp of uncertainties aren't we and forced to make decisions. Here goes.
To be clear amisulpride can and does normally provide a consistent mood benefit to responders, possibly via 5HT-7 antagonism (note: some other low dose antipsychotics share this 5HT-7 antagonism).
The energy effect, however, I haven't known or heard to be enduring. If it is an amphetamine like effect, it MIGHT be preserved by combining with a partial NMDA antagonist like memantine.
I consider the sedation effect a separate action from the energy effect, rather than part of a continuum. If a 12.5gm dose sometimes but not always sedates you, you can use a gram scale to provide yourself with accurate dosages for dosages of 12.5 grams and smaller.
For the sake of perspective, lets list why ami.s affect has been so unpredictable for you: 1) varying doses of amisulpride, 2) varying dosing schedules of ami, 3) interactions with a benzo., and 4) development of dopaminergic system tolerance(s).
A 5th factor should be added, I think, if I'm understanding the research correctly. That is, changes induced on your system by inflammation and stress (both physiological and psychological). Energizing effects in particular may be hard to sustain under conditions of high stress and inflammation in the brain. Personally, I ASSUME my brain is prone to high stress and inflammation, and, in response, make lifestyle choices (e.g. short burst aerobic exercise that emphasizes 'FLOW') and supplement choices accordingly. The goal is to provide a more stable platform to work off of. For example I supplement with a high dose fish oil stabilized against oxidation, and a brain available form of curcumin (Theracurmin) consisting of water soluble nano particles.
For sleep and anxiety; melatonin (time released, 300 micrograms, no higher!), and Bacopa (e.g. Bacopa Gold brand) can be helpful.
For an alerting affect, sublingual uridine monophosphate helps many. It also encourages neurogenesis.
I hope this information is helpful and best wishes.
Posted by neo on August 27, 2013, at 8:12:37
In reply to Re: One more question..., posted by andrewb on August 26, 2013, at 10:23:05
Thank you very much indeed!
Your infos are really clear, interesting and useful.
Now I want to take time to study the next steps to choose, according to the new infos collected.
Best regards and best wishes to you.
This is the end of the thread.
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