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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by sigismund on June 19, 2013, at 7:19:53
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » ihatedrugs, posted by SLS on June 18, 2013, at 10:39:49
Scott, which of Nardil's side effects bothered you the most?
I took a tablet of Nardil what seems like a hundred years ago and could have sworn I noticed it, and what's more liked it very much.
Posted by tecknohed on June 19, 2013, at 9:02:47
In reply to Best meds for dysthymia, posted by ihatedrugs on June 17, 2013, at 23:23:06
Easy - low doses of cannabis. And that is not meant as encouragement but its simply fact. I know some USA states now allow cannabis for health purposes, so I feel safe that I have enough backup to avoid any unnecessary arguments. Like I said, SMALL doses. If you feel 'stoned' you've taken too much and can lead to paranoia. I've had to recently give up cannabis due to memory problems, but I did actually use it upon waking & it would give me a great mood to start to day without compromising energy. Like I said, SMALL doses. Used as a medicine I see no problem, unlike people who just smoke it to get 'mashed'.
teck
Posted by SLS on June 19, 2013, at 10:01:09
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » SLS, posted by sigismund on June 19, 2013, at 7:19:53
> Scott, which of Nardil's side effects bothered you the most?
1. Dizziness (hypotension)
2. Urinary retention
3. Anorgasmia - resolved after a few months> I took a tablet of Nardil what seems like a hundred years ago and could have sworn I noticed it, and what's more liked it very much.
I can't prove it, but I think Nardil exerts acute effects that are in addition to its MAO inhibition. These would include an energizing effect and perhaps an anxiolytic effect. I doubt that these things are due to GABA transmaminase inhibition. I could be wrong about this, though. Unfortunately, there is no incentive to study Nardil anymore.
- Scott
Posted by Beckett on June 19, 2013, at 16:38:00
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » sigismund, posted by SLS on June 19, 2013, at 10:01:09
I thought all the maois broke down to or had some relation to amphetamine...?
Posted by tecknohed on June 19, 2013, at 17:15:59
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » SLS, posted by Beckett on June 19, 2013, at 16:38:00
I thought everyone knew that Nardil manipulated GABA in a positive way. When I was on Nardil & 1.5mg clonazepam, I decided to stop the benzo. And my pdoc reasured me that being on 90mg Nardil meant I could simply stop the clonazepam without tapering. He was right. From what I remember one of Nardil's metabolites is responsible for its pro-GABA effects.
I now take the MAOI Marplan (isocarboxazid), another hydrazine derivative but which has no such effect on GABA. Hence why I need 4mg clonazepam daily.
Posted by Phillipa on June 19, 2013, at 18:19:35
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia, posted by tecknohed on June 19, 2013, at 17:15:59
I wonder what ever happened to Ace the Nardil Champ? Anyone know?
Posted by SLS on June 19, 2013, at 21:03:37
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » SLS, posted by Beckett on June 19, 2013, at 16:38:00
> I thought all the maois broke down to or had some relation to amphetamine...?
Not that I am aware of. There has always been some debate about Parnate being metabolized to amphetamine, but I am dubious that this is the case. Some small percentage of selegiline (Emsam) is metabolized into amphetamine and methamphetamine. I am not aware of Nardil and Marplan having this property.
- Scott
Posted by damnthislife on June 20, 2013, at 16:34:20
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » Beckett, posted by SLS on June 19, 2013, at 0:56:24
> > Scott, how is Nardil for energy?
>
> Anergia is a prominent feature of my depression.
> - ScottInteresting. You're one of the few that I have found that says low energy is a big problem with their depression. I take it you're atypical? Have you tried Emsam? I'm starting that in a few weeks. This will be my first MAOI. Nardil and Parnate next if this fails.
Posted by tecknohed on June 20, 2013, at 18:16:42
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia, posted by damnthislife on June 20, 2013, at 16:34:20
> Interesting. You're one of the few that I have found that says low energy is a big problem with their depression.I'm sorry but are you kidding??? Everybody I know who suffers from depression also suffer from low energy/lethargy/somnolence/hypersomnia.
Perhaps I misunderstood you?
Posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2013, at 20:44:23
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia, posted by damnthislife on June 20, 2013, at 16:34:20
So you are going on emsam? Congrats!!! Phillipa
Posted by damnthislife on June 21, 2013, at 8:02:40
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » damnthislife, posted by tecknohed on June 20, 2013, at 18:16:42
Technohed,
Sorry, I should have worded that better. Usually when I see those complain about depression, I usually don't see most complain about lack of energy and general tiredness.
Posted by damnthislife on June 21, 2013, at 8:05:59
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » damnthislife, posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2013, at 20:44:23
Hey Phillipa!
Yes sir! Picked up my script two days ago. Cannot start it until a week after July. Coming off Prozac and Bupropion.
BTW... sorry I haven't gotten back to you, yet. Things have been crazy at home as we're currently looking for a new home.
Posted by Phillipa on June 21, 2013, at 9:35:55
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia, posted by damnthislife on June 21, 2013, at 8:05:59
Please do and that is fabulous that you have your emsam!!! Phillipa
Posted by tecknohed on June 21, 2013, at 9:59:48
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia, posted by damnthislife on June 21, 2013, at 8:02:40
> Technohed,
>
> Sorry, I should have worded that better. Usually when I see those complain about depression, I usually don't see most complain about lack of energy and general tiredness.No problem. I could have been more tactful myself.
Posted by damnthislife on June 21, 2013, at 10:25:24
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » damnthislife, posted by tecknohed on June 21, 2013, at 9:59:48
> > Technohed,
>
> No problem. I could have been more tactful myself.LOL, no worries man! We're all in this together in some way, shape or form.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on June 21, 2013, at 10:32:26
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » SLS, posted by sigismund on June 19, 2013, at 7:19:53
> Scott, which of Nardil's side effects bothered you the most?
>
> I took a tablet of Nardil what seems like a hundred years ago and could have sworn I noticed it, and what's more liked it very much.I think Nardil has some effect on PEA.
Posted by tecknohed on June 21, 2013, at 10:42:18
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » sigismund, posted by g_g_g_unit on June 21, 2013, at 10:32:26
>
> I think Nardil has some effect on PEA.Yes it does, dont ask me how tho lol. Being on Marplan, for a short time I was addicted to adding PEA powder, as it was like amphetamine. Wont work without an MAOI though. MAO normally breaks down PEA almost instantly and before it has chance to give a stimulant effect. And so blocking MAO from breaking PEA down, the PEA is then left to produce it's psycho-stim effect.
Posted by Beckett on June 21, 2013, at 12:25:07
In reply to Best meds for dysthymia, posted by ihatedrugs on June 17, 2013, at 23:23:06
Hi ihatedrugs, and congratulations on dropping excess medication. I can't remember if you have tried Emsam. It is mildly stimulating, but nothing like a stimulant. I may start it again, idk. Being web-savvy, you may have read Wiki's entry about parnate and the repression/interference with REM sleep.
May I ask you a few questions about Vyvance? How long does it last? My 10mgER Adderall poop-out by mid-afternoon. I take one a day and can feel the stages it goes through--yuck.
How long has it been part of your regime? Are you fairly happy with it? My fatigue is extreme. I'd like it to work awhile. Next stop, MOAIs :(
Continued good wishes.
Posted by Beckett on June 21, 2013, at 12:37:54
In reply to Best meds for dysthymia, posted by ihatedrugs on June 17, 2013, at 23:23:06
P.S. emsam felt better than lexapro or any ssri/snri. That's just my experience. I think some people on this site talk about ssri induced anhedonia.
Anhedonia is terrible.
Have you thought of dropping the lexapro and waiting to see what happens? You know you need a two week /wash between the lex and a MAOI if you go that route.
.Okay, good luck! Let us know how you're doing if you will.
Posted by sigismund on June 22, 2013, at 8:30:34
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » damnthislife, posted by tecknohed on June 20, 2013, at 18:16:42
> low energy/lethargy/somnolence/hypersomnia.
You can have low energy/lethargy/somnolence and inability to sleep, at least properly.
Posted by sigismund on June 22, 2013, at 8:32:53
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » sigismund, posted by g_g_g_unit on June 21, 2013, at 10:32:26
I bought some PEA and took sufficient to get a real effect.
It was kind of like a party drug, but just physically....I did not get a mood change with it, but physically I felt really jazzed (for want of a better description). I never repeated it though.
Posted by ihatedrugs on June 28, 2013, at 21:29:04
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » ihatedrugs, posted by Beckett on June 21, 2013, at 12:37:54
> P.S. emsam felt better than lexapro or any ssri/snri. That's just my experience. I think some people on this site talk about ssri induced anhedonia.
>
> Anhedonia is terrible.
>
> Have you thought of dropping the lexapro and waiting to see what happens? You know you need a two week /wash between the lex and a MAOI if you go that route.
> .
>
> Okay, good luck! Let us know how you're doing if you will.I've tried Emsam. My problem is that I haven't reached full remission in at least last five years. I'm now working with a doctor and giving hrt a try since I'm also going through what seems perimenopausal symptoms. To be honest, I don't know what works anymore. Not only have I lost my spark for life now I physically feel exhausted. I've had all kinds of blood tests done. They did find that my ferritin levels were low (hematocrit was fine) and the hematologist ordered an iron iv transfusion. I did it about a week ago. Should begin to feel better in three weeks (if that was causing my exhaustion). I also got tested for the mthfr gene mutation and was positive, think it was C677T. I began taking Deplin. I took it years ago but wasn't sure if it was helping either. No medication has offered a robust enough effect for me to say that it is working. My pdoc seems to have given up which also doesn't help. I know I need to find a new one but I'm so tired of going from dr to dr. I've given up gluten, alcohol, and now eat fresh and organic foods, quit my job, have no stress in my daily life and still feel bad.
Sigh! Tomorrow is another day with new possibilities.
Posted by ihatedrugs on June 28, 2013, at 21:37:01
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » ihatedrugs, posted by Beckett on June 21, 2013, at 12:25:07
> Hi ihatedrugs, and congratulations on dropping excess medication. I can't remember if you have tried Emsam. It is mildly stimulating, but nothing like a stimulant. I may start it again, idk. Being web-savvy, you may have read Wiki's entry about parnate and the repression/interference with REM sleep.
>
> May I ask you a few questions about Vyvance? How long does it last? My 10mgER Adderall poop-out by mid-afternoon. I take one a day and can feel the stages it goes through--yuck.
>
> How long has it been part of your regime? Are you fairly happy with it? My fatigue is extreme. I'd like it to work awhile. Next stop, MOAIs :(
>
> Continued good wishes.Vyvanse is the only thing keeping me functional. It's much smoother than Adderall. I don't feel the crash like I did Adderall. It doesn't really speed you up but it lets you get things done. I'm also getting fitted for a cpap breathing machine since I have sleep apnea and that may be causing my fatigue. I live in a golf community and it is so depressing to see 80 yrs old playing all day and telling jokes. I used to be energetic and fun and now I don't even go out (I'm 49). Hope you are doing well.
Posted by Englishman006! on July 3, 2013, at 3:04:05
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » Beckett, posted by ihatedrugs on June 28, 2013, at 21:37:01
> > Hi ihatedrugs, and congratulations on dropping excess medication. I can't remember if you have tried Emsam. It is mildly stimulating, but nothing like a stimulant. I may start it again, idk. Being web-savvy, you may have read Wiki's entry about parnate and the repression/interference with REM sleep.
> >
> > May I ask you a few questions about Vyvance? How long does it last? My 10mgER Adderall poop-out by mid-afternoon. I take one a day and can feel the stages it goes through--yuck.
> >
> > How long has it been part of your regime? Are you fairly happy with it? My fatigue is extreme. I'd like it to work awhile. Next stop, MOAIs :(
> >
> > Continued good wishes.
>
> Vyvanse is the only thing keeping me functional. It's much smoother than Adderall. I don't feel the crash like I did Adderall. It doesn't really speed you up but it lets you get things done. I'm also getting fitted for a cpap breathing machine since I have sleep apnea and that may be causing my fatigue. I live in a golf community and it is so depressing to see 80 yrs old playing all day and telling jokes. I used to be energetic and fun and now I don't even go out (I'm 49). Hope you are doing well.I don't know much about your history but maybe your best bet would be to aim for becoming medication free... I've heard some miraculous stories regarding CPAP's effects on psychiatric symptoms.
Meds get you so far but prevent you from becoming fully well. They kind of leave you 'letter boxed', apathetic and indifferent. The withdrawal will not be easy and things are likely to worsen before becoming better, but if you can hold your hat long enough to come out the other side it will be worth the suffering. Not working maybe an ideal opportunity to try to withdraw as there's less pressure to function.
If withdrawal become unbearable a one off dose at regular strength should give you some prompt relief. That's a good way to gauge whether it is withdrawal or signs of the old illness returning. If a dose fixes you quite quickly your in withdrawal!
I have a feeling your fatigue may be sleep related too and may respond well to the cpap. Sleep disorders can cause mood disorders so prepare to be surprised.
Good luck!
Posted by ihatedrugs on July 4, 2013, at 23:27:21
In reply to Re: Best meds for dysthymia » ihatedrugs, posted by Englishman006! on July 3, 2013, at 3:04:05
> > > Hi ihatedrugs, and congratulations on dropping excess medication. I can't remember if you have tried Emsam. It is mildly stimulating, but nothing like a stimulant. I may start it again, idk. Being web-savvy, you may have read Wiki's entry about parnate and the repression/interference with REM sleep.
> > >
> > > May I ask you a few questions about Vyvance? How long does it last? My 10mgER Adderall poop-out by mid-afternoon. I take one a day and can feel the stages it goes through--yuck.
> > >
> > > How long has it been part of your regime? Are you fairly happy with it? My fatigue is extreme. I'd like it to work awhile. Next stop, MOAIs :(
> > >
> > > Continued good wishes.
> >
> > Vyvanse is the only thing keeping me functional. It's much smoother than Adderall. I don't feel the crash like I did Adderall. It doesn't really speed you up but it lets you get things done. I'm also getting fitted for a cpap breathing machine since I have sleep apnea and that may be causing my fatigue. I live in a golf community and it is so depressing to see 80 yrs old playing all day and telling jokes. I used to be energetic and fun and now I don't even go out (I'm 49). Hope you are doing well.
>
> I don't know much about your history but maybe your best bet would be to aim for becoming medication free... I've heard some miraculous stories regarding CPAP's effects on psychiatric symptoms.
>
> Meds get you so far but prevent you from becoming fully well. They kind of leave you 'letter boxed', apathetic and indifferent. The withdrawal will not be easy and things are likely to worsen before becoming better, but if you can hold your hat long enough to come out the other side it will be worth the suffering. Not working maybe an ideal opportunity to try to withdraw as there's less pressure to function.
>
> If withdrawal become unbearable a one off dose at regular strength should give you some prompt relief. That's a good way to gauge whether it is withdrawal or signs of the old illness returning. If a dose fixes you quite quickly your in withdrawal!
>
> I have a feeling your fatigue may be sleep related too and may respond well to the cpap. Sleep disorders can cause mood disorders so prepare to be surprised.
>
> Good luck!Thanks for your response. I have been withdrawing from some of my meds as I saw no use in taking them. Eventually, I would love to be med-free. I am also becoming more aware of what I eat and staying away from processed foods. My neurologist says he has seen great improvement in his patients moods after using the cpap. I really hope it brings some needed relief. Thanks again.
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