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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by gadchik on February 28, 2013, at 8:19:02
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by joe schmoe on February 22, 2013, at 6:48:28
Joe, Have you tried a small amt of melatonin to help get your sleep back on track? A pharmacist told me I could try a small dose to help with that when Ive tried(been unsuccessful) to lower my klonopin dose.
Posted by joe schmoe on February 28, 2013, at 16:35:11
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by gadchik on February 28, 2013, at 8:19:02
> Joe, Have you tried a small amt of melatonin to help get your sleep back on track? A pharmacist told me I could try a small dose to help with that when Ive tried(been unsuccessful) to lower my klonopin dose.
No. That's an interesting idea, it never occurred to me.
I haven't taken melatonin in a very long time. I seem to recall that the best dose was around 300 mcg, which was hard to find since most of the doses sold were 3 mg or more. Supposedly a dose of 3 mg would be so large that it would cause paradoxical effects and actually result in insomnia.
Have you taken it? If so what dose did you try and did it work?
Posted by gadchik on February 28, 2013, at 17:17:22
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » gadchik, posted by joe schmoe on February 28, 2013, at 16:35:11
Joe, I have a bottle of it, however,Ive never taken one! I didnt taper my klonopin,so I really didnt need it. I have a panic response the first time I take any new medicine,so I was afraid to take it when I did try to taper. But supposedly it helps people with sleep when tapering off a benzo. I have a friend who takes melatonin every night,loves it. She's not on any psych meds though.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 7:00:40
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering? » joe schmoe, posted by herpills on February 17, 2013, at 7:30:14
Last night I decided to lower my dose again, so I didn't take my evening dose. So now I am at 0.125 mg in the morning and that's it.
Usually there is a three day delay before I feel a dosage reduction but last night I felt it immediately as I got weird sensations in my head, tight neck, little anxiety attacks etc as I lay in bed trying to get to sleep.
I am sure it will only get more fun in the next few days.
Weird effects continue. I have gone from a great increase in libido and sexual sensation at first, to virtual sexual anesthesia lately, during this taper. Very strange. Makes me wonder where I will end up.
Posted by gadchik on March 1, 2013, at 10:23:32
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 7:00:40
I admire you for continuing on, I know it must be very difficult. I cannot stand the feeling of lowering my dose of k. Maybe one day, I can
Posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 16:29:21
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering? » joe schmoe, posted by gadchik on March 1, 2013, at 10:23:32
Today my lips alternated between numb and tingling. I was in a store looking at melatonin bottles and jumped when a store employee behind me asked if I needed help. I also have heard a high pitched whine all day anytime the background noise was low (work is often quiet as a tomb, so I heard it a lot).
Klonopin withdrawal is like a box of chocolates, you never know what symptom or sensory distortion you'll get next. At this point I just shake my head and laugh at the ridiculous parade of symptoms. At least the sheer variety and randomness of them is somewhat entertaining.
The worst ones I think are the weird panic sensations when I am trying to go to sleep, it feels like I am about to have a seizure. At least I imagine that is what it feels like, since I have never had one to my knowledge. At work I have had severe anxiety, inability to look people in the eye for very long without my neck muscles stiffening and trembling etc. but I tell myself they probably can't tell, and even if they can, who cares. Lots of strange people at work, I'm no weirder than the rest of them.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 16:31:16
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » joe schmoe, posted by gadchik on February 28, 2013, at 17:17:22
I got some melatonin at the store, 1 mg tablets, I plan to break them in half.
Tonight will be interesting.
Posted by gadchik on March 1, 2013, at 16:41:10
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » gadchik, posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 16:31:16
I sure hope you do not have too much trouble tonight,although, as you said, you never know what you may get. Please let me know if there is any relief with the melatonin on board.
Posted by phidippus on March 1, 2013, at 19:43:23
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by joe schmoe on February 22, 2013, at 6:48:28
You've probably accrued some tolerance, which would mean you need to up your dose a little.
Drinking will help anxiety, as alcohol agonizes GABA receptors, plus it is an NMDA antagonist. Unfortunately, alcohol is not the best medicine, as its side effects can be devastating.
The best way to treat anxiety is with an SSRI or other antidepressant. ADs treat the root of the problem, where as benzodiazapines throw a blanket over the fire.
Eric
Posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 19:55:58
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering? » joe schmoe, posted by phidippus on March 1, 2013, at 19:43:23
> You've probably accrued some tolerance, which would mean you need to up your dose a little.
>
> Drinking will help anxiety, as alcohol agonizes GABA receptors, plus it is an NMDA antagonist. Unfortunately, alcohol is not the best medicine, as its side effects can be devastating.
>
> The best way to treat anxiety is with an SSRI or other antidepressant. ADs treat the root of the problem, where as benzodiazapines throw a blanket over the fire.
>
> EricWell I am putting it to the test, since I am already on an SSRI (have been for almost as long as clonazepam). We'll see how I fare off clonazepam. I am not convinced that an SSRI can handle the kind of massive, altered-state social anxiety I have in the times it matters most, like job interviews. But I plan to take clonazepam and Inderal for such occasions as needed anyway.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 2, 2013, at 11:23:29
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » joe schmoe, posted by gadchik on March 1, 2013, at 16:41:10
Well the melatonin didn't help me stay asleep, and in fact it gave me rather frightful medical-related nightmares. Ugh.
Of course I am in the first days of another dosage drop in the clonazepam so that may be just too powerful an effect to overcome. I will keep trying it.
Posted by gadchik on March 2, 2013, at 12:16:30
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » gadchik, posted by joe schmoe on March 2, 2013, at 11:23:29
Im sorry to hear that melatonin did not help,and it sounds like you had a rough night to boot. I guess I can cross that one off my list of helpful meds for benzo withdrawal. Have you tried remeron? I wonder if it would work for sleep in your situation? I have taken a crumb of that when Ive had trouble sleeping and it works,but next day hangover is not good.
Posted by phidippus on March 2, 2013, at 15:29:44
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering? » phidippus, posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 19:55:58
Did you know that studies show Topomax is a good treatment for social anxiety?
Eric
Posted by joe schmoe on March 3, 2013, at 11:18:17
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » gadchik, posted by joe schmoe on March 2, 2013, at 11:23:29
Well last night I didn't have a nightmare, so that is a relief.
The melatonin does seem to make me really tired shortly after taking it. I think it does help me get to sleep. It will be interesting to see if it helps me stay asleep, it hasn't for the last two nights but like I said, the first few days of a dosage drop are particularly brutal.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 10, 2013, at 9:36:46
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia, posted by joe schmoe on March 3, 2013, at 11:18:17
Well I have been at 1/8 of a mg for the last ten days. I am thinking about stopping it later this week. I wonder if 1/8 is too large for a last dose, or whether I am ok to stop taking it altogether at that dose. After the first couple of days of going from 1/4 to 1/8, I have felt pretty good. Less side effects throughout the week and my mood seems to be improving more and more as I taper off clonazepam. I am starting to wonder if it was making me depressed. Note I am on celexa 20 mg.
Posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2013, at 10:10:41
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose?, posted by joe schmoe on March 10, 2013, at 9:36:46
Joe I couldn't take klonopin as you probably already know as posted before but it sure could be the reason for depression. As for the celexa at 20mg do you feel it does anything. Seriously I've cut luvox to 12.5mg and upped it's sister lexapro to 7.5mg and find I don't sleep nearly as well. I also feel strange. Still taking low dose benzos. Years ago I found I felt better minus ad's and just benzos? I did take celexa and found it completly different from lexapro? I'm glad you have been able to cut down. Goal off all benzos? Phillipa
Posted by gadchik on March 10, 2013, at 12:15:06
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose? » joe schmoe, posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2013, at 10:10:41
Thanks for sharing ur success in tapering k. I know its hard, but seems like u have done well. This gives others hope that they too can do this. I would ask a pharmacist about the last drop. Congrats!!!
Posted by joe schmoe on March 10, 2013, at 12:32:40
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose? » joe schmoe, posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2013, at 10:10:41
> As for the celexa at 20mg do you feel it does anything.
Yes I've been off it a number of times and I always relapse into depression without it after four or five months. I also think it helps me with general stress and rejection sensitivity. My mother can tell just from the sound of my voice on the phone whether I am on it or not.
>Seriously I've cut luvox to 12.5mg and upped it's sister lexapro to 7.5mg and find I don't sleep nearly as well.
I have no experience with luvox and little with lexapro since it was not generic for a long time and thus more expensive. I haven't tried it since it went generic since celexa seems to work for me most of the time.
> I also feel strange.
I have felt strange on most meds I have tried, LOL. Especially AD's. Had to give up Viibryd after six months because I was feeling weirder and weirder.
> Still taking low dose benzos. Years ago I found I felt better minus ad's and just benzos? I did take celexa and found it completly different from lexapro? I'm glad you have been able to cut down. Goal off all benzos? Phillipa
I have tried just clonazepam and no AD's several times and I tend to get depressed.
Right now I seem to be functioning fairly well on almost no clonazepam at all, so I think I am going to go back to just taking it if I have a serious social performance situation like a job interview or presentation.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 10, 2013, at 12:35:38
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose?, posted by gadchik on March 10, 2013, at 12:15:06
> Thanks for sharing ur success in tapering k. I know its hard, but seems like u have done well. This gives others hope that they too can do this. I would ask a pharmacist about the last drop. Congrats!!!
Well I'm not off it yet but I am close. Been tapering for about 3 and a half months.
Posted by gadchik on March 11, 2013, at 15:19:52
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose? » gadchik, posted by joe schmoe on March 10, 2013, at 12:35:38
Joe, would you mind telling me the key points you learned in tapering klonopin, and your thoughts about how you felt/feel? What should I know about it? Thanks!
Posted by joe schmoe on March 12, 2013, at 19:08:03
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose? » joe schmoe, posted by gadchik on March 11, 2013, at 15:19:52
> Joe, would you mind telling me the key points you learned in tapering klonopin, and your thoughts about how you felt/feel? What should I know about it? Thanks!
Well,
Today was the first day I took no clonazepam at all, so the next week should be interesting! Doing ok so far. As far as points:
First of all I read the Ashton web site stuff about benzo withdrawals and all the weird sensations and experiences I might have. So I was prepared. I have to come to view these effects as proof that I am making progress in withdrawal. It is somewhat similar to how I have learned to interpret stomach grumbling/hunger as a sign that I am losing weight while on a diet. I take a positive view of an unpleasant sensation. If I feel weird, it means my brain is healing. In the same vein I force myself to engage people at work in conversation, in meetings etc. despite feeling unpleasant from the withdrawal/social anxiety. I feel better knowing I can still function if I try and they can't tell what I am going through. It is a process and it will have unpleasant sensations and moments, but they are just proof that my body is adjusting to a life without clonazepam. Each time I lower the dose, the sensations reappear, but fade again over time as I march onward. Soon they will be gone.
Second, alcohol relaxes me wonderfully in the evening. It seems to have a much stronger effect as I taper down. I have put on weight from drinking too much, but it does provide a way to get through the taper without relapsing into taking more clonazepam. I intend to cut way back on alcohol once I am through. For the moment I use it as a way to get through this.
Third, lack of sleep worsens my social anxiety. This is something I had noticed far in the past before I took clonazepam. Now it has come into focus again, since it manifests in a different way: lack of sleep worsens my withdrawal symptoms. I have been feeling pretty good for the last week - lowered my dose ten days ago and felt pretty good within 3 or 4 days - but today I felt weird again (tingling lips and face, numb hands upon awakening, etc) due to poor sleep last night. The poor sleep was caused, I think, due to excessive drinking last night. So the alcohol relief can come at a price if you overdo it. Bottom line is to get as much quality sleep as you can. I think melatonin helps and I plan to take it again tonight (didn't take it the past few days). Not drinking would probably help even more, but I need a little relief now and then.
Frankly the worst withdrawal effects (tight muscles, stiff neck, social panic etc) seemed to occur in the middle of the taper more than now. I feel like I am almost out of the woods. We will see how I fare on no clonazepam at all in the coming days. Today wasn't too bad.
Every time I lower the dose I get carb cravings for junk food like Cheetos, and also increased libido and sexual sensation, for awhile. Like alcohol, the junk food can be used in moderation as a treat to help you get through the worst parts of a dose lowering. Similarly, having something pleasurable to look forward to (good sex or masturbation) can also function as a positive point in an otherwise grueling process. I take my pleasures where I can find them, especially when undergoing something like this. I think it is important to have little things to focus on and look forward to as a counterpoint to the unpleasant parts of the withdrawal.
And as I've written before, the sheer variety and unpredictability of the withdrawal effects can be a source of entertainment and amusement, as you wonder what you will experience next. You just have to remember that it all will pass, and the fact you are experiencing them is proof you are on the way up.
My mood has improved quite a bit during the withdrawal even as I was undergoing these symptoms. So I think clonazepam was depressing me.
I have been on celexa since last summer (I have been on and off it several times over the years) and I think it has helped with the withdrawal and keeping down general anxiety.
Posted by gadchik on March 12, 2013, at 19:25:40
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose? » gadchik, posted by joe schmoe on March 12, 2013, at 19:08:03
Thanks for putting your experience into words.This first hand account has been invaluable to me, and I will save it to read more thoroughly. You have pointed out a way of thinking that I hadnt considered when attempting to taper. This is immensely helpful.I have been particularly interested in your story because you have been taking klonopin for years. Thanks for a new perspective. And good luck without it,but it seems you will do well.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 13, 2013, at 16:56:12
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose? » joe schmoe, posted by gadchik on March 12, 2013, at 19:25:40
> Thanks for putting your experience into words.This first hand account has been invaluable to me, and I will save it to read more thoroughly. You have pointed out a way of thinking that I hadnt considered when attempting to taper. This is immensely helpful.I have been particularly interested in your story because you have been taking klonopin for years. Thanks for a new perspective. And good luck without it,but it seems you will do well.
>
>Glad it was helpful.
Been 60 hours since I took a clonazepam.
First time without it in about 12 years.
Still kickin'.
This beer feels good.
Posted by gadchik on March 13, 2013, at 18:27:05
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose? » gadchik, posted by joe schmoe on March 13, 2013, at 16:56:12
Glad u can enjoy a beer! Thats one thing I had to give up for klonopin. I couldnt handle the light headedness. I will attempt another taper when I return from nyc. I will try to get down to .25mg and stay there for awhile, until I feel secure. I fear it,but, as they say, the only thing to fear is fear itself...
Posted by joe schmoe on March 14, 2013, at 16:39:18
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose? » joe schmoe, posted by gadchik on March 13, 2013, at 18:27:05
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