![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by TemporarilyBob on October 26, 2012, at 16:11:40
In reply to Re: F U Prozac and 5htp and... serotonin crazy makers, posted by PrettyLady on October 26, 2012, at 15:11:48
Have you ever tried TCAs? Nortriptyline, amitriptyline ... any of those "-iptylines"? The responses you describe to SSRIs remind me of the 2.5 years of hell I went through because my pdoc was certain that one of those damn SSRIs was bound to work sooner or later, until threatening him with dropping him finally made him try nortriptyline. It's been a long haul since. I've also been lucky enough to have 2 pdocs at different times who were up on the bipolar literature. From what I understand of the way it has been explained to me, there are variations of bipolar that do not necessarily involve mania -- the mania is more substance-dependent and if you try to treat the "mania" aggressively you just make matters worse. Latest pdoc of mine has talked about how the latest research is talking about a bipolar III and even bipolar IV category and he admitted that it's still not all that well understood -- they know more about what NOT to do than what to do.
I'm not saying that's where you are, I'm just throwing it out there as a talking point for you and your pdoc. Your bipolar mixed states diagnosis might not be quite on the mark.
Obviously I'm bringing this up because my current pdoc says this *is* where I am and that 2-4% of the population (that's 2-4% of the general pop, not the disabled pop, so BIG nuumber), according to the studies he has seen, are being misdiagnosed. And, however innocently and well-intendedly, are being improperly medicated, making their situations worse, possibly worse than they would be unmedicated.
Posted by phidippus on October 26, 2012, at 16:12:32
In reply to Re: F U Prozac and 5htp and... serotonin crazy makers, posted by PrettyLady on October 26, 2012, at 15:11:48
>I am starting to accept: I am bipolar, mixed state.
This is not a death sentence. I am bipolar, mixed state as well and I am doing fine on medications.
>I need medication.
So? The good thing is you have demonstrated a positive response to Lithium Orotate which inicates you will do well on Lithium Carbonate, which is the gold standard for treating bipolar disorder.
>I am so sad about this, but I think it's my only chance at a normal life.
You're probably right.
>I'm so sensitive to medications, so I'm afraid of taking them.
You have taken ADs before. Having to take mood stabilizers is no different.
>I'm also afraid of life right now.
What, specifically are you afraid of?
>I'm scared I will be useless forever, and never be able to get on my own two feet.
This is simply not true. You have resources and a strong support system, but most important of all, you don't want to be 'useless'.
Eric
Posted by PrettyLady on October 28, 2012, at 0:38:36
In reply to Re: F U Prozac and 5htp and... serotonin crazy makers » PrettyLady, posted by phidippus on October 26, 2012, at 16:12:32
Eric,
Can you please tell me what your agitation/mania is like?
I'm experiencing such bizarre symptoms, like I've been plugged into a light socket. All my nerves feel warm, or buzzed. It's hard to explain, but I've never experienced this before. Have you ever felt that before?
I'm very confused as to what's going on with me. The doctor put me on Trileptal. I'm also wondering if I can take it and the Lithium Orotate at the same time. I know you're not a doctor, but it helps to talk this stuff out.
As far as fears with the meds, I'm very afraid of being on antidepressants long term, as the neurotransmitters tend to wear out, and then you get to that spot in life where no matter what antidepressant you switch to, they "poop out".
I full on feel like I'm in rehab. I went to a movie tonight and had to leave bc it made me so damn agitated.
Posted by phidippus on October 28, 2012, at 16:07:29
In reply to Re: F U Prozac and 5htp and... serotonin crazy makers, posted by PrettyLady on October 28, 2012, at 0:38:36
>Can you please tell me what your agitation/mania is like?
I've never had a pure manic state. When I'm in a mixed state my anxiety goes through the roof. I become very depersonalized and derealized. I start having ideas of reference and often see things that are not there. I have aural hallucinations and strange thoughts or ideas. I become very agitated and can't stay still, so I pace alot. I also have bouts of rage that are scary. My thoughts race.
>All my nerves feel warm, or buzzed. It's hard to explain, but I've never experienced this before. Have you ever felt that before?
I sure have. Some medications have made me feel that way-Treximet, Trileptal, others.
I know you may be confused, but its no reason to be frightened. It may just be a side effect of the medicine you are on.
How much trileptal are you taking?
>I'm also wondering if I can take it and the Lithium Orotate at the same time.
No problem. I took Lithium and Trileptal together for awhile.
>I know you're not a doctor
Actually, I'm studying to be a psychiatrist ;)
>I'm very afraid of being on antidepressants long term
I would worry about getting on the right mood stabilizer before worrying about getting on an antidepressant again.
>the neurotransmitters tend to wear out, and then you get to that spot in life where no matter what antidepressant you switch to, they "poop out".
This is somewhat of a myth. Tachyphylaxis is actually a rare thing and what usually happens is the person taking an antidepressant experiences a worsening of symptoms such that the antidepressant cannot treat them successfully anymore. The best thing to do in this case is augment treatment with another AD.
Ha ave you thought of checking into a hospital?
Eric
Posted by PrettyLady on October 29, 2012, at 8:57:29
In reply to Re: F U Prozac and 5htp and... serotonin crazy makers » PrettyLady, posted by phidippus on October 28, 2012, at 16:07:29
I added Seroquel (50 mg) yesterday to the mix without the advice of a doctor because I am so damn agitated and not getting sleep, and I woke up this morning and my heart was racing and I was having strong heart palpitations. It's still happening right now. Is this an adjustment thing or should I just stop the seroquel all together?
150 tripleptal AM
150 trleptal pm
25-50mg seroquel pm
Ativan as needed (usually .5 a day)
Posted by phidippus on October 29, 2012, at 14:27:12
In reply to Re: F U Prozac and 5htp and... serotonin crazy makers, posted by PrettyLady on October 29, 2012, at 8:57:29
I think you're just having an unusual amount of anxiety that may be due to a mood imbalance or due to the fact you stopped your AD. You might want to increase your ativan.
Eric
Posted by PrettyLady on October 29, 2012, at 16:25:31
In reply to Re: F U Prozac and 5htp and... serotonin crazy makers » PrettyLady, posted by phidippus on October 29, 2012, at 14:27:12
Yes, my anxiety has kicked into full gear, raging anxiety at this point. But the heart racing/palpitation was a real thing, I had my father check it out this morning. I think I should just not combine the seroquel and the trileptal if I can manage to sleep.
Will the trileptal help the severe anxiety? And how long does it take to work? I'm starting to feel really dizzy and tired from it but still crazy anxious.
Thanks.
Posted by PrettyLady on October 29, 2012, at 16:44:18
In reply to Re: F U Prozac and 5htp and... serotonin crazy makers, posted by PrettyLady on October 29, 2012, at 16:25:31
I had another question.. you said that lithium helped your manic/agitated/mixed state. Do you also struggle with depression and did the lithium help you with that also?
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 16:59:46
In reply to Lou's response- » PrettyLady, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2012, at 4:12:25
> > SOOOO... As o the beginning of last summer I developed bizarre symptoms switching from Celexa to Zoloft (neck stiffness, back spasms, hot flashes, panic, vertigo, total insanity) and had to stop both cold turkey. I've been working with a Naturopath to try to treat stuff with homeopathy, but due to it's slow nature, I decided to try 5HTP to lift my depression more quickly which BACKFIRED as I started to develop panic. So then I went to a doctor and got Zoloft and took one pill and got even worse panic, woke up at 3 in the morning, and have had cycling panic attacks ever since. It's like a constant panic attack with feelings of dread, and despair and paranoia all at once. I also can't stop thinking about death. It's so messed up, I can't deal with it and have to take ativan all day to cool it off.
> > I took the Zoloft (a single dose of 10mg) 5 days ago and am still having really bad cycling anxiety. What I want to know is, will this wear off, and how long will it take???
> > I started Lithium Orotate 4 days ago which is lifting the depression, making me think clearer, and slightly helping the anxiety, but this irritable, angry, crazy, paranoid anxiety that makes me unable to think straight is subsiquentially making me depressed is not letting up... very much. This is my concern. Please help.
> >
> > p.s. I've always had acute anxiety. But never this f-ed up like.
>
> PrettyLady,
> You wrote,[....started to develop panic...one pill and got even worse...panic attacks ever since...feelings of dread and dispair and paranoia...can't stop thinking about death...bad cycling anxiety...will this wear off...making me depressed..Please help...].
>P_L,
Now I see in your last post a continuation with raging anxiety and such and more drugs. When will it ever end? Now you can go the road of human achievement and try all he combinations of many drugs , but look at the lives of he others here that are tormemnted that are also taking mind-altering drugs given to them by a psychiatrist/doctor.
Let me offer you this. I do not want to see anyone in this type of torment from drugs. I know a way that could deliver you out of the bondage of depression, anxiety, addiction and such and if you want to go on another road other than human achievement, let me know. If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, come to the waters freely and without price.
Lou
Posted by PrettyLady on October 29, 2012, at 18:08:35
In reply to Lou's response-the offer, posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 16:59:46
Lou,
I appreciate your concern. I've been praying for a long time. I had a friend who tried some spiritual healing on me, and unfortunately it didn't work. Now I'm somewhere in the middle. I think that God helps us, and I think we have to deal with what we r given as well. But I'm open to your suggestions, I could always use some more spiritual help.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 19:29:24
In reply to Re: Lou's response-the offer, posted by PrettyLady on October 29, 2012, at 18:08:35
> Lou,
> I appreciate your concern. I've been praying for a long time. I had a friend who tried some spiritual healing on me, and unfortunately it didn't work. Now I'm somewhere in the middle. I think that God helps us, and I think we have to deal with what we r given as well. But I'm open to your suggestions, I could always use some more spiritual help.P_L,
The drugs are chemicals that have constituants used in nerve agents. These vchemicals cause different componants of the brain to be acted upon by the chemical. The chemicals can injure the part of the brian by either temprarily shutting it down or shut dowen that part of the brain forever. So if the chemical enters the part of thebrain that controls sexual aspects, it could cause that componant of the brain to not function and then there is loss of sexual feelings. Th chemical could effect other componants of the brain and efect nerves that control organs, in particular the heart and liver. Time after time, each oill taken is a roll of the dice as to where the chemical will land up to cause damage next. The chemicals could reach a componant of the brain or heart an cause instant death, sudden death. Or the chemical could reach a componant that could cause addiction to the drug, which most mind-altering drugs can and do.
The brain reacts to the chemicals by shutting down parts of the neurons so they do not work as a defense mechinism as seeing the drug as an invader. Here is a video that explains some of this. After the video, I could go on if you like.
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at3Sg6qvgTE
Posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2012, at 20:04:50
In reply to Lou's reply-natgeominni » PrettyLady, posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 19:29:24
No No please. Support. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 20:15:29
In reply to Lou's reply-natgeominni » PrettyLady, posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 19:29:24
> > Lou,
> > I appreciate your concern. I've been praying for a long time. I had a friend who tried some spiritual healing on me, and unfortunately it didn't work. Now I'm somewhere in the middle. I think that God helps us, and I think we have to deal with what we r given as well. But I'm open to your suggestions, I could always use some more spiritual help.
>
> P_L,
> The drugs are chemicals that have constituants used in nerve agents. These vchemicals cause different componants of the brain to be acted upon by the chemical. The chemicals can injure the part of the brian by either temprarily shutting it down or shut dowen that part of the brain forever. So if the chemical enters the part of thebrain that controls sexual aspects, it could cause that componant of the brain to not function and then there is loss of sexual feelings. Th chemical could effect other componants of the brain and efect nerves that control organs, in particular the heart and liver. Time after time, each oill taken is a roll of the dice as to where the chemical will land up to cause damage next. The chemicals could reach a componant of the brain or heart an cause instant death, sudden death. Or the chemical could reach a componant that could cause addiction to the drug, which most mind-altering drugs can and do.
> The brain reacts to the chemicals by shutting down parts of the neurons so they do not work as a defense mechinism as seeing the drug as an invader. Here is a video that explains some of this. After the video, I could go on if you like.
> Lou
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at3Sg6qvgTEFriends,
My apology for the comments in the discussion under the video. I did not intend for this version of the video to be used.
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2012, at 21:17:55
In reply to Lou's apology-Lou's reply-natgeominni, posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 20:15:29
Lou I accept your apology. Phillipa
Posted by phidippus on October 29, 2012, at 21:25:35
In reply to Re: F U Prozac and 5htp and... serotonin crazy makers, posted by PrettyLady on October 29, 2012, at 16:44:18
> Do you also struggle with depression and did the lithium help you with that also?
I was on Depakote before Lithium and suffered horribly from depression. Lithium made a huge impact on my mood.
Eric
Posted by phidippus on October 29, 2012, at 21:33:47
In reply to Re: F U Prozac and 5htp and... serotonin crazy makers, posted by PrettyLady on October 29, 2012, at 16:25:31
>Yes, my anxiety has kicked into full gear, raging anxiety at this point.
The best medications to treat anxiety are serotogenic antidepressants and benzodiazapines. Lyrica, Gabapentin, Gabitril, Atarax and Keppra can also help.
>But the heart racing/palpitation was a real thing,
I don't doubt it, but the cause can be anxiety-you may be experiencing a limited symptom panic attack.
>I think I should just not combine the seroquel and the trileptal if I can manage to sleep
Seroquel and Trileptal can be combined safely.
>Will the trileptal help the severe anxiety?
It can help with some, but probably not all your anxiety. It kind of depends what dose you're on.
>And how long does it take to work?
It depends on how quickly you titrate up to a working dose. That can be anywhere from 900 to 2700 mg of Trileptal.
Eric
Posted by PrettyLady on October 30, 2012, at 2:22:17
In reply to Lou's reply-natgeominni » PrettyLady, posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 19:29:24
Uhm. Lou, I don't really appreciate your fear mongering. I have been trying to deal with these issues without medical attention and my life has fallen apart. Please understand that I'm just trying to be well. I had this discussion with a spiritual friend of mine today and she was explaining that perhaps this is the lifeboat that God is giving me, and not to be foolish and try to let mania and suicidal tendencies run wild in the name of "faith". We have faith, but that doesn't mean we don't drink water or eat food because we think God delivers all things without effort. We have bodies, and they have needs. God helps those who help themselves, and after a long time of suffering, this is how I am coming back to a place of wellness, so I can be of service to other people. I'm very upset by your comment, bc you implying that a mentally ill person taking medication makes them an ungodly person. Clearly you don't have an empathetic heart, because if you could feel for 5 seconds what I feel on a daily basis, you wouldn't be so quick to pass judgement on me.
I hope and pray that everyone gets what they need in life, including you, which appears to be a clue.
On a more positive note, for some reason I'm feeling much calmer tonight. Perhaps the med is starting to work. Now I'm all upset bc of the direction this threat has turned but I will report on how I feel tomorrow.
Lou if you want to do something helpful, say a prayer that I get better, and stop trying to scare a person who is already afraid of life itself.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 30, 2012, at 5:03:53
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-natgeominni, posted by PrettyLady on October 30, 2012, at 2:22:17
> Uhm. Lou, I don't really appreciate your fear mongering. I have been trying to deal with these issues without medical attention and my life has fallen apart. Please understand that I'm just trying to be well. I had this discussion with a spiritual friend of mine today and she was explaining that perhaps this is the lifeboat that God is giving me, and not to be foolish and try to let mania and suicidal tendencies run wild in the name of "faith". We have faith, but that doesn't mean we don't drink water or eat food because we think God delivers all things without effort. We have bodies, and they have needs. God helps those who help themselves, and after a long time of suffering, this is how I am coming back to a place of wellness, so I can be of service to other people. I'm very upset by your comment, bc you implying that a mentally ill person taking medication makes them an ungodly person. Clearly you don't have an empathetic heart, because if you could feel for 5 seconds what I feel on a daily basis, you wouldn't be so quick to pass judgement on me.
> I hope and pray that everyone gets what they need in life, including you, which appears to be a clue.
> On a more positive note, for some reason I'm feeling much calmer tonight. Perhaps the med is starting to work. Now I'm all upset bc of the direction this threat has turned but I will report on how I feel tomorrow.
> Lou if you want to do something helpful, say a prayer that I get better, and stop trying to scare a person who is already afraid of life itself.P_L,
You wrote,[...your fear mongering...a spiritual friend of mine..perhaps this is the lifeboat that God is giving me...mania and suicide tendencies...God helps those that help themselves...you implyong...an ungodly person...you don't have an empathetic heart...pass judgement on me...trying to scare a person...].
I am unsure as to what you are wantig to mean here with what you wrote. If you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. If the contnet in the video showed how the brain deals with mind-altering chemicals and the damage the chemical can do to one's brain, how is that {fear mongering} if that is where your statement comes from?
B. If it comes from some other aspect of our discussion, where does it come from?
C.In that you cite what a spiritual friend told you, which God does that friend use as a source of what that friend said to you?
D. By what authority does that friend use to claim that the God that they are referring to says that God helps those that help themselves?
E. In that you are thinking that perhaps there is a lifeboat from God, then perhaps *not* also could be a possibility, whatever the boat is that you think is the boat?
F.Are you aware that psychotropic drugs can increase suicidal and mania tendancies?
G. Are you aware that there is an over abundance of scientific evidence that mind-altering drugs could cause one to think of killing themselves and/or others?
H. Do you agree that by having an understanding of the destructive nature that psychotropoic drugs can do to a person's brain and organs, that the knowledge obtained could be used to make a more-informed decision as to take psychotropic drugs or not?
K. Could it be that the God that I give service and worship to is not the same God as the one that your friend gives service and worship to?
L. Does your (spiritual) friend take mind-altering drugs?
M. If that friend is a bible-believing friend, could you ask that friend if he/she knows what the bible prescribes to those that take mind-altering drugs?
N. Also, could you ask that friend if they understand the prescription for healing that the bible gives?
P. Could you please not post statements here that are lies about me accusing me falsley of mongering fear and being an ungodly person and not having an empathetic heart and passing judgment on you and trying to scare a person? Those are lies about me and have the potential to damage me emotionally and psychologically. They are nothing more than hatred couched in a venue that your "Dr Bob" allows to be spewed upon me here in a collaberation with you and others that could destroy, which is an unsound mental-health practice and could lhave detrimental effects on the one's that harbor such hatred in their hearts.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2012, at 7:35:35
In reply to Lou's reply-moarhey » PrettyLady, posted by Lou Pilder on October 30, 2012, at 5:03:53
Lou, you have stated that you are trying to follow Dr. Bob's rules. Dr. Bob has clearly stated that if the poster who originates a thread points out that they wouldn't find posts of a certain kind helpful, then at that point it would be unsupportive to continue to make them.
PrettyLady has invoked that rule. Please continue further discussions on another thread.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 30, 2012, at 8:11:00
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-moarhey » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 30, 2012, at 7:35:35
> Lou, you have stated that you are trying to follow Dr. Bob's rules. Dr. Bob has clearly stated that if the poster who originates a thread points out that they wouldn't find posts of a certain kind helpful, then at that point it would be unsupportive to continue to make them.
>
> PrettyLady has invoked that rule. Please continue further discussions on another thread.
>
> D,
You have not specified what post of mine is a{certain kind}. If you could identify what post you want to mean, then I could have the opportunity ot respond to you here. If you are intending not to identify which post you are referring to, that could cause ill-will to be directed at me and I am defending myself here against false accusations and lies being posted here about me and are allowed to stand by Mr. Hsiung here. I want to stop this and the way for me that is available is to ask you to identify that particular post now. Mr Hsiung has commited what is called {waiver} here of his rules that allows now members to post hatred and defamation toward me here. The rules are waived for them so they are waived for me also. Please do not post anything that can be construed to think that there are two standards here and hold me to rules that others are not held to. In my response to P_L, I was responding to hate and defending myself against the heaping of lies and defamation and hate upon me here. No one can post lies and hate to someone and then say that they can not defend themselves by responding to the slander. Mr Hsiung is allowing this to fester and if I do not try to stop him, others could be filled with the poison of hate as thinking that it is supportive by him to post that to me for he has not sanctioned by his own rules the hate posted to me here. When I came here, I saw that Mr Hsiung would not let one match start a forest fire. I took him at his word. And I took him at his word that he would be doing what will be good for this community as a whole. Yet today, the hatred posted to me here is being orchistrated by the Wizzard of Babble by him allowing it to stand and collaberating with members and you want me to not respond to the hate and defend myself by not posting to the hate because of some rule that says that the innitiator of a thread can post lies and hate to you and then invoke that you can not post a response to the hate? That is not the rukle at all. The rule is that in the first post, the innitiator can restrict the responses, but I am responding to what she wrote to me which is different.
Here is a link to Mr Hsiung's attitude toward me and the collaberation that he asks for in relation to members and calling me The Prince of Death.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20120228/msgs/1029662.html
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2012, at 8:17:17
In reply to Lou's reply-wizzer » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on October 30, 2012, at 8:11:00
I'm trying to help you, Lou.
I mean anti medication kinds. Dr. Bob was clear on the rights of the originating posters to request this.
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2012, at 8:24:08
In reply to Re: F U Prozac and 5htp and... serotonin crazy makers, posted by PrettyLady on October 29, 2012, at 16:44:18
I have to apologize. My goal wasn't to turn your thread into one about Lou. It was just to point out that thread originators do have, under site guidelines, the power to politely request that certain types of posts not be made in reply. You could also include requests that posts of an administrative nature not be made on the thread if you find it distracting.
Again, I apologize.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 30, 2012, at 8:32:40
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-wizzer » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 30, 2012, at 8:17:17
> I'm trying to help you, Lou.
>
> I mean anti medication kinds. Dr. Bob was clear on the rights of the originating posters to request this.D,
The poster opened up dialog with me with that she is open to suggestions concerning my offer to her to help her withdrawal from the SSRI and such.
Now in order for one to be able to withdrawal from mind-altering drugs, I think that being educated concerning the psysiology of drugs and what they do to the brain and body is essential. And the forum is for support and education. The posting of the video is used world-wide in educating people about psychotropic drugs and addiction. I am trying to lead the person to truth, and truth is supportive in any mental health forum. There is no rule that allows a member to restrict others from popsting education, for the forum is for that.
Her is a link to er post inviting me to respond. Be advised, that I wll not allow others to slander me here and post lies aout me here and not defend myself against the hatred promulgated here toward me by the nature of Mr Hsiung allowing it or members trying to say tha there is a rule that I can not defend myself against the hate. There is no such rule in any mental health forum and if there is, utr is an unsound mntal health practice unless the moderator sanctions that hae. In the case here, Mr Hsoiung has waived his rules and they are waived to all.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20121029/msgs/1030249.html
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2012, at 8:38:43
In reply to Lou's reply-entrp » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on October 30, 2012, at 8:32:40
She made a later reply, Lou. I was responding to that.
I'll let her decide herself. I just wanted to let her know of the possibility.
I won't discuss this further on this thread. The poster came here for support and education, not an administrative discussion.
Posted by PrettyLady on October 30, 2012, at 10:40:08
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-entrp » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 30, 2012, at 8:38:43
Lou, I know you're trying to help, but your comments are making me feel very hopeless and horrible. I would request you leave these issues to those educated on the issue. I just need to get better right now and you're causing me great distress and making me feel like jumping off a bridge.
How do I email the administrator?
Go forward in thread:
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