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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mtdewcmu on July 15, 2011, at 19:45:55
I have had good results with phenibut for getting better sleep and reducing early-morning awakenings. It's kind of expensive, though, and I ran out a few days ago because I didn't have the money to order more. Since running out, I rapidly started waking up too early and waking up feeling unrefreshed. A couple of days of that and my mental state rapidly goes downhill. So I was wondering if anybody knows if baclofen could be a viable replacement. It would be dramatically cheaper than phenibut. I know Lamdage mentioned it in the hypnotics thread recently. I found some scattered reports in the medical literature that make it sound like a pretty good sleep drug. It's curious that there didn't seem to be much attention paid to the good results. It's like the forgotten drug. I'm going to hit up my pdoc for some at my next appointment. It's worth a try.
Here is an extremely recent literature review:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/cpd/2011/00000017/00000015/art00004
Unfortunately it costs a fortune to read it.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 15, 2011, at 20:39:39
In reply to Baclofen for sleep?, posted by mtdewcmu on July 15, 2011, at 19:45:55
It does cost a fortune to read.
I haven't tried it, but am interested in your observations and experience. I have considered it. Went for tizanidine (zanaflex) instead and found that mildly helpful.
Posted by desolationrower on July 15, 2011, at 20:41:52
In reply to Baclofen for sleep?, posted by mtdewcmu on July 15, 2011, at 19:45:55
> I have had good results with phenibut for getting better sleep and reducing early-morning awakenings. It's kind of expensive, though, and I ran out a few days ago because I didn't have the money to order more. Since running out, I rapidly started waking up too early and waking up feeling unrefreshed. A couple of days of that and my mental state rapidly goes downhill. So I was wondering if anybody knows if baclofen could be a viable replacement. It would be dramatically cheaper than phenibut. I know Lamdage mentioned it in the hypnotics thread recently. I found some scattered reports in the medical literature that make it sound like a pretty good sleep drug. It's curious that there didn't seem to be much attention paid to the good results. It's like the forgotten drug. I'm going to hit up my pdoc for some at my next appointment. It's worth a try.
>
> Here is an extremely recent literature review:
>
> http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/cpd/2011/00000017/00000015/art00004
>
> Unfortunately it costs a fortune to read it.i think its worth a shot. i dn't remember reading specifically on improved sleep structure, but i don't remember negative studies either.
diphenhydramine is cheap as shit. 2 or 3 bucks should last you half a year.
-d/r
Posted by mtdewcmu on July 16, 2011, at 0:34:00
In reply to Re: Baclofen for sleep? » mtdewcmu, posted by floatingbridge on July 15, 2011, at 20:39:39
> It does cost a fortune to read.
>I am going to try to read it at a library.
> I haven't tried it, but am interested in your observations and experience. I have considered it. Went for tizanidine (zanaflex) instead and found that mildly helpful.
Posted by mtdewcmu on July 16, 2011, at 1:06:32
In reply to Re: Baclofen for sleep?, posted by desolationrower on July 15, 2011, at 20:41:52
>
> i think its worth a shot. i dn't remember reading specifically on improved sleep structure, but i don't remember negative studies either.
>There aren't many studies. Here are a few random ones that I found:
In this one, they gave baclofen to people with mild sleep-disordered breathing and found that they slept longer and got more REM and NREM:
http://www.ersj.org.uk/content/8/2/230.short
Here's one where they gave it to narcoleptic teenagers and found that they slept longer and had more slow wave sleep:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0887899409000824
Here's one where they make reference to GABA-B agonists increasing slow-wave sleep while leaving REM undisturbed.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/adis/cns/2009/00000023/00000008/art00005
Here's one where they found that baclofen helps rats sleep better when they're stressed:
http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jphs/109/4/109_518/_article
Plus, I have found some studies where they showed that GABA-B is important in sleep architecture.
> diphenhydramine is cheap as shit. 2 or 3 bucks should last you half a year.
>I have already been through the usual suspects.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 16, 2011, at 10:38:24
In reply to Re: Baclofen for sleep? » desolationrower, posted by mtdewcmu on July 16, 2011, at 1:06:32
Thank you for these links. I'm printing them out. There seems to be a big gap where I live between treatment and (not even very radical) research. Sleep, or rather, it's disturbance, is a cornerstone for so many conditions. Good luck!
> >
> > i think its worth a shot. i dn't remember reading specifically on improved sleep structure, but i don't remember negative studies either.
> >
>
> There aren't many studies. Here are a few random ones that I found:
>
> In this one, they gave baclofen to people with mild sleep-disordered breathing and found that they slept longer and got more REM and NREM:
>
> http://www.ersj.org.uk/content/8/2/230.short
>
> Here's one where they gave it to narcoleptic teenagers and found that they slept longer and had more slow wave sleep:
>
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0887899409000824
>
> Here's one where they make reference to GABA-B agonists increasing slow-wave sleep while leaving REM undisturbed.
>
> http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/adis/cns/2009/00000023/00000008/art00005
>
> Here's one where they found that baclofen helps rats sleep better when they're stressed:
>
> http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jphs/109/4/109_518/_article
>
> Plus, I have found some studies where they showed that GABA-B is important in sleep architecture.
>
> > diphenhydramine is cheap as sh*t. 2 or 3 bucks should last you half a year.
> >
>
> I have already been through the usual suspects.
Posted by Phillipa on July 16, 2011, at 11:03:48
In reply to Re: Baclofen for sleep? » mtdewcmu, posted by floatingbridge on July 16, 2011, at 10:38:24
If for narcolepsy wouldn't that end up like nuvidgil or providgil? Phillipa
Posted by mtdewcmu on July 16, 2011, at 11:46:01
In reply to Re: Baclofen for sleep? » mtdewcmu, posted by floatingbridge on July 16, 2011, at 10:38:24
Posted by mtdewcmu on July 16, 2011, at 11:49:11
In reply to Re: Baclofen for sleep?, posted by Phillipa on July 16, 2011, at 11:03:48
> If for narcolepsy wouldn't that end up like nuvidgil or providgil? Phillipa
Xyrem (GHB) is also used in narcolepsy. I don't know all that much about narcolepsy, but apparently the kids in the study slept more when they took baclofen at night. That can't be bad. It said baclofen didn't help them during the day, but why would it?
Posted by Phillipa on July 16, 2011, at 20:38:10
In reply to Re: Baclofen for sleep? » Phillipa, posted by mtdewcmu on July 16, 2011, at 11:49:11
Found this link. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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