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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Adam on November 28, 2001, at 23:06:49
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT (re:Adam's post, posted by PhoenixGirl on November 23, 2001, at 15:23:55
Hey, PG,
I'm sorry I missed your reply until now...to answer your < 20 questions:
I got bilateral ECT, a total of 8 treatments over about two weeks. I received my treatments around the beginning of 1999, near the end of January, I think. I was out of the hospital by the end of Feb. I did ECT as an inpatient. To make a long story short, I was actively considering doing myself in, and decided it was time to head for the psych ward at Mass. General, which I fortunately did.
Am I depressed? I don't know! I guess it depends on how you define my condition (being someone who was severely depressed in the past). I seem to be doing quite well presently, and I'm not taking any meds or getting any other kind of treatment. It will take a bit to exlain how I have arrived at this point (to answer your final question), so I apologize if I'm being long-winded:
To be honest, I was pretty ignorant about ECT until I got it. Of course, I had no idea that Psychobabble existed at that time! Anyway, I was in such bad shape by the time I was hospitalized I was pretty much in the mood to let them do whatever they wanted, because I was at the end of my rope, and figured I had nothing to lose. When I responded to the treatments, it was the doctors who were following me who steered me towards other drugs. I think, at that time, I actually wasn't aware of maintainance ECT, and no one really discussed it with me. After getting ECT, I relapsed about a month later. I tried a few drugs, either alone or in combination, but they didn't help. Then I got into a transdermal selegiline study, and responded extremely well to that. So I just continued on selegiline, evetually switching to high-dose oral selegiline once the study was over. That continued for a while until I started having some odd and distressing physical symtoms that seem to be connected somehow with the selegiline. I got off the selegiline so I could get some tests, improved almost immediately, and just never went back on it. My mood has remained good despite the change, and that's where I'm at now.
> Hi Adam. Yes sometimes I've felt kind of weird. It is hard to describe, and it's not a bad feeling, just a weird one. I guess maybe it's because I am so not used to feeling alright, it's like a new experience for me. To me, life equaled suffering, so to not suffer anymore....I just don't know what to make of living in wellness. I hope that I can keep getting maintenance ECT, or whatever treatment to sustain this effect, and eventually feeling good will seem natural and feeling bad will be the unusual feeling. Adam, let's play 20 questions! : When did you get ECT, how many did you get, bilateral or unilateral, are you still depressed, why haven't you done maintenance ECT?
>
Posted by ALANW on November 29, 2001, at 18:34:36
In reply to Re: PHOENIXGIRL! » PhoenixGirl, posted by Adam on November 28, 2001, at 23:06:49
> Hey, PG,
>
> I'm sorry I missed your reply until now...to answer your < 20 questions:
>
> I got bilateral ECT, a total of 8 treatments over about two weeks. I received my treatments around the beginning of 1999, near the end of January, I think. I was out of the hospital by the end of Feb. I did ECT as an inpatient. To make a long story short, I was actively considering doing myself in, and decided it was time to head for the psych ward at Mass. General, which I fortunately did.
>
> Am I depressed? I don't know! I guess it depends on how you define my condition (being someone who was severely depressed in the past). I seem to be doing quite well presently, and I'm not taking any meds or getting any other kind of treatment. It will take a bit to exlain how I have arrived at this point (to answer your final question), so I apologize if I'm being long-winded:
>
> To be honest, I was pretty ignorant about ECT until I got it. Of course, I had no idea that Psychobabble existed at that time! Anyway, I was in such bad shape by the time I was hospitalized I was pretty much in the mood to let them do whatever they wanted, because I was at the end of my rope, and figured I had nothing to lose. When I responded to the treatments, it was the doctors who were following me who steered me towards other drugs. I think, at that time, I actually wasn't aware of maintainance ECT, and no one really discussed it with me. After getting ECT, I relapsed about a month later. I tried a few drugs, either alone or in combination, but they didn't help. Then I got into a transdermal selegiline study, and responded extremely well to that. So I just continued on selegiline, evetually switching to high-dose oral selegiline once the study was over. That continued for a while until I started having some odd and distressing physical symtoms that seem to be connected somehow with the selegiline. I got off the selegiline so I could get some tests, improved almost immediately, and just never went back on it. My mood has remained good despite the change, and that's where I'm at now.
>
> > Hi Adam. Yes sometimes I've felt kind of weird. It is hard to describe, and it's not a bad feeling, just a weird one. I guess maybe it's because I am so not used to feeling alright, it's like a new experience for me. To me, life equaled suffering, so to not suffer anymore....I just don't know what to make of living in wellness. I hope that I can keep getting maintenance ECT, or whatever treatment to sustain this effect, and eventually feeling good will seem natural and feeling bad will be the unusual feeling. Adam, let's play 20 questions! : When did you get ECT, how many did you get, bilateral or unilateral, are you still depressed, why haven't you done maintenance ECT?
> >
I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO POST FOR TWO WEEKS ON ECT AND TOPAMAX. DOESN'T SEEM TO BE POSTING FOR SOME REASON. HAS ANYONE HAD ECT AND TAKEN TOPAMAX? ALANW
Posted by SLS on November 29, 2001, at 19:00:52
In reply to Re: R a question for SLS, posted by Anna P. on November 28, 2001, at 14:51:42
Hi again, Anna.
> > Has VNS been approved for depression in Canada by any regulatory agency?> Yes, VNS has been approved as a treatment for depression in Canada.
That's great! The more options available, the better. That's why I'm all in favor of having crappy antidepressants continue to float around. Some people do respond amazingly well to trazodone, moclobemide, and reboxetine.
> That's true, VNS is expensive, but did you know there wil be a study around the spring at MUSC at North Carolina. I spoke with the nurse over there.
Thanks for the heads-up! I would guess that it's one of Dr. George's studies. (MUSC is in South Carolina). He has helped pilot studies of both rTMS and VNS. It would be nice to get his opinion as to which one he thinks is better. Even though I have friends down in Charlston, I doubt it would be feasable for me to live down there. I should start buying lottery tickets.
> I'm in a big dispair. Currently I'm on Reboxetine and Stelazine, but they don't work for my anergy. I have no more medications to try, and those that I tried in the past don't work anymore. I developed a resistence to them.
Which drugs worked? Which ones have definitely helped - even if only partially?
What is your current diagnosis?
Is Stelazine being used as an antidepressant? Some people have become manic while taking it, so I don't doubt that some doctors might choose it for unusual cases.
I guess you've already tried things like Dexedrine, Adderal, Ritalin, and Provigil. What about Mirapex? What about sulpiride or amisulpride? What about Parnate or Nardil. In the past, some doctors have used for their difficult cases combinations of high-dosage Parnate (120+ mg.) with a tricyclic along with either a stimulant or DA agonist. I did. I gleaned one of my better improvements with this combination. Parnate definitely does things at high dosages that it doesn't do at low dosages. MAOIs do more than just block the monoamine oxidase enzyme. I came across one abstract describing a study designed to compare low and high dosages of Parnate so as to investigate why the high-dosage treatment is sometimes found to be effective in TRD. It indicated that 5-HT2 receptor antagonism became evident at the higher dosages that was not apparant at the lower dosages. The study used rodents, but the dosage per body weight ratios were designed to reflect those used in human applications.
> I was in Atlanta to get some TMS, but I had to come back because my meds stopped working and my depression got worse.
Do you live near Atlanta? If not, what kind of arrangements did you use for lodging?
> I had only four sessions, but now I'm very sceptical whethet TMS works at all.
They're starting to play around with much stronger magnetic fluxes.
> How are you doing, Scott?
Right now, I'm not doing too well. But I'm not feeling as horrendous as I was a few weeks ago. I was a few weeks ago. I'm currently taking Lamictal 300mg., Effexor 300mg., and nortriptyline 75mg. My doctor just raised the dosage of nortriptyline after my blood level was shown to be too low. I will stay with this regimen for a minimum of 2 weeks, and probably 4 weeks if my blood levels reach the therapeutic range. I will keep my fingers crossed, but I'm not expecting much. One good thing that has come of this is that I am becoming more patient with drug trials. It is known that neuronal receptors take about 2 weeks to adapt to a change in the brain's environment (receptor-turnover). Therefore, to terminate a trial of a dosage adjustment before 2 weeks (3 is better) might allow one to pass right by their road to success. In my way of thinking, someone who has failed to respond to many drug trials doesn't have the luxury to not fully explore any given treatment. This means time. I seem to have "tickled" the brain a little with all three of the drugs I'm taking, so I am comfortable with the decision to continue with the trial for another month. My doctor wants to add Remeron next. If it doesn't work out, I'll probably head in the direction of using Nardil with Lamictal along with either nortriptyline or imipramine, and possibly add Zyprexa or Geodon.
Sorry if the post was too long.
I hope tomorrow offers you a smile. :-)
- Scott
Posted by Defective on June 23, 2011, at 4:00:22
In reply to Update- My experience with ECT, posted by PhoenixGirl on November 20, 2001, at 16:53:36
Hi, please let me know what your doctor says about maintenance ECT. I've tried every medication imaginable since I was 9 years old and I'm now 29. I'm depressed, but don't have any other co-existing mental health conditions. Are you bipolar or just depressed? Do you struggle with any other forms of mental illness? I'm very desperate and currently considering ECT, so any information you have to share would be very helpful. I can't imagine the cognitive impairment of depression being less damaging than the effects of a life of maintenance treatments on ECT, but I'm sure it's possible. Also, if you have any other questions, please let me know anytime.
Posted by Defective on June 23, 2011, at 4:11:35
In reply to Update- My experience with ECT, posted by PhoenixGirl on November 20, 2001, at 16:53:36
Hi, please let me know what your doctor says about maintenance ECT. I've tried every medication imaginable since I was 9 years old and I'm now 29. I'm depressed, but don't have any other co-existing mental health conditions. Are you bipolar or just depressed? Do you struggle with any other forms of mental illness? I'm very desperate and currently considering ECT, so any information you have to share would be very helpful. I can't imagine the cognitive impairment of depression being less damaging than the effects of a life of maintenance treatments on ECT, but I'm sure it's possible. Also, if you have any other questions, please let me know anytime.
Posted by PhoenixGirl on June 23, 2011, at 16:07:33
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by Defective on June 23, 2011, at 4:00:22
Hi there. My post actually was from about 10 years ago. I had (and still have) major depression, not bipolar, although my mother is bipolar.
Anyway, I found that ECT helped me temporarily. I had a major mood swing, so my doctor stopped the maintenance ECT. The thing about ECT, and all psychiatric therapies, is that different people can have different experiences with it all. Your mileage may vary.> Hi, please let me know what your doctor says about maintenance ECT. I've tried every medication imaginable since I was 9 years old and I'm now 29. I'm depressed, but don't have any other co-existing mental health conditions. Are you bipolar or just depressed? Do you struggle with any other forms of mental illness? I'm very desperate and currently considering ECT, so any information you have to share would be very helpful. I can't imagine the cognitive impairment of depression being less damaging than the effects of a life of maintenance treatments on ECT, but I'm sure it's possible. Also, if you have any other questions, please let me know anytime.
Posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 16:41:29
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by PhoenixGirl on June 23, 2011, at 16:07:33
Moodswing = positive or negative? How you doing now?
You said you took all these meds, but no irreversible maoi. If this still is the case: you sound like a nardil candidate to me!
Posted by Defective on June 23, 2011, at 19:21:32
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by PhoenixGirl on June 23, 2011, at 16:07:33
Whoops, I thought the date was an "11" not a "1." Thank you so much for responding. Let's hope it doesn't come to ECT before I find a solution.
Posted by PhoenixGirl on June 23, 2011, at 21:17:38
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by Defective on June 23, 2011, at 19:21:32
It's been 10 years since I got ECT, 20 since the depression started, and I'm still f-ed up. Not as f-ed up as I was, but still. This depression thing is a beast. I'm proud of myself for surviving it and turning out pretty good, lol.
But yes, I have tried Nardil. And the mood swings were negative, I'm afraid. I haven't been suicidal in several years now.
Posted by mogger on June 25, 2011, at 21:55:40
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by Defective on June 23, 2011, at 4:00:22
That is absolutely fantastic news PhoenixGirl. Definitely go for the maintenance ECT as I knew a woman who did the maintenance ECT and still maintained all the benefits. All the best to you.
Joseph
Posted by Lamdage on June 26, 2011, at 8:00:34
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by PhoenixGirl on June 23, 2011, at 21:17:38
Its good to hear you improved!
A question: did you get possible underlying physiological causes checked? Hormones, heavy metals, large blood work, candida etc etc?
What kind of therapy did you do?
Posted by PhoenixGirl on June 26, 2011, at 10:35:53
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by Lamdage on June 26, 2011, at 8:00:34
I didn't get those physiological things checked. I wouldn't even know where to go for that. I've tried asking doctors to check my hormone levels at least, but they won't because I'm not even in my 40s yet, they said.
As for therapy, I've had it all, but I would say that cognitive behavioral therapy helped the most.
Posted by Lamdage on June 26, 2011, at 11:36:29
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by PhoenixGirl on June 26, 2011, at 10:35:53
> I didn't get those physiological things checked. I wouldn't even know where to go for that. I've tried asking doctors to check my hormone levels at least, but they won't because I'm not even in my 40s yet, they said.
> As for therapy, I've had it all, but I would say that cognitive behavioral therapy helped the most.Oh so you got the "you idiot youre not even in your XXs yet" response. Doctors can be real sweet cant they?
Might be worth taking a look into. The kind of doc that wont give you that response is called a endocrinologist!
Posted by alchemy on June 26, 2011, at 12:22:15
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by mogger on June 25, 2011, at 21:55:40
> That is absolutely fantastic news PhoenixGirl. Definitely go for the maintenance ECT as I knew a woman who did the maintenance ECT and still maintained all the benefits. All the best to you.
>Years ago I tried a round of ECT which did help. I am thinking I need it again, but I would have to have maintenance. Can you tell me how your friend's maintenace scheduled was spread out? How often does she get it now?
Posted by Defective on June 26, 2011, at 19:34:55
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by Lamdage on June 26, 2011, at 11:36:29
Any doctor that says you need to do a heavy metal test or a candida test is trying to scam you.
Posted by PhoenixGirl on June 26, 2011, at 21:21:39
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT » mogger, posted by alchemy on June 26, 2011, at 12:22:15
I can tell you about the maintenance I got. After the initial round, my doctor did it a week later, then two weeks later, and then a month later. The maintenance treatment was once every 4 to 6 weeks.
Posted by alchemy on June 28, 2011, at 19:31:20
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by PhoenixGirl on June 26, 2011, at 21:21:39
> I can tell you about the maintenance I got. After the initial round, my doctor did it a week later, then two weeks later, and then a month later. The maintenance treatment was once every 4 to 6 weeks.
Thank you. How long did you do the maintenance? Did it continue to help? And why did you stop?
I think when I had my first round of ECT I wasn't as nervous as I am now. I think I just have more anxiety in general- and having to go off of my xanax would not help. I think part of it is the anesthesia, even feeling it go in my veins and slowly wash over me. And then the oxygen mask. You would think I would be more afraid of the memory loss. I just can't logically talk myself out of the anxiety of it - and the seizure is only like 15 seconds.
Posted by Lamdage on June 29, 2011, at 1:18:01
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by Defective on June 26, 2011, at 19:34:55
> Any doctor that says you need to do a heavy metal test or a candida test is trying to scam you.
I respectfully disagree. To me ssri are alot more fraudulent.
Posted by alchemy on June 29, 2011, at 19:17:58
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by Lamdage on June 29, 2011, at 1:18:01
> > Any doctor that says you need to do a heavy metal test or a candida test is trying to scam you.
>
> I respectfully disagree. To me ssri are alot more fraudulent.Candida & metal testing are things I did over a decade ago. Herbs, vitamins, allergies, etc. True, sometimes people find help with those things. I would say that the majority are appreciative of what medical science has helped us with. One person's nectar may be another person's poison. I do not hold grudges against the medications that increased my depression. They have helped many people.
Our bodies are not perfect. Diabetics need chemically made insulin to live.
Posted by Lamdage on June 30, 2011, at 4:04:41
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT » Lamdage, posted by alchemy on June 29, 2011, at 19:17:58
I bet detoxification helps a hell of alot more often than ssri treatment
Posted by PhoenixGirl on June 30, 2011, at 9:36:31
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by alchemy on June 28, 2011, at 19:31:20
I did it for about 6 months, I believe. My doctor stopped it because I became suicidal, and he thought the ECT might have activated an underlying bipolar tendency (or something like that....I can't recall clearly). The maintenance ECT didn't help me all that much. It was the intial round that helped, but the help only lasted about 2 weeks.
I hated the anesthesia, too. It scared me. I thought I might not wake up from it, and I didn't like how I had no control over what was happening once the anesthesia took hold.
Posted by Lamdage on June 30, 2011, at 12:31:31
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by PhoenixGirl on June 30, 2011, at 9:36:31
So whats the status now? Depression under control?
Posted by alchemy on July 5, 2011, at 21:19:35
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by PhoenixGirl on June 30, 2011, at 9:36:31
> I did it for about 6 months, I believe. My doctor stopped it because I became suicidal, and he thought the ECT might have activated an underlying bipolar tendency (or something like that....I can't recall clearly). The maintenance ECT didn't help me all that much. It was the intial round that helped, but the help only lasted about 2 weeks.
Interesting. When I first had ECT I felt really good for about 2 weeks too. I permanantly got out of a very black hole, but I went back to my "normal depression".
This dr suggests not spacing out the ECT so much as I move to maintenace. I had a few about 2 weeks later. After one of them I felt really agitated. I have never heard of it possibly trigering bipolar. Agitation is on the bipolar side.
A lot of information says that ECT is more suited for a major depression episode than chronic. I really hope that's not the case with me. Haven't started it yet, but I will probably within the next 2 weeks.
Posted by PhoenixGirl on July 14, 2011, at 20:21:02
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT » PhoenixGirl, posted by alchemy on July 5, 2011, at 21:19:35
Alchemy, did you start ECT? How is it going?
> > I did it for about 6 months, I believe. My doctor stopped it because I became suicidal, and he thought the ECT might have activated an underlying bipolar tendency (or something like that....I can't recall clearly). The maintenance ECT didn't help me all that much. It was the intial round that helped, but the help only lasted about 2 weeks.
>
> Interesting. When I first had ECT I felt really good for about 2 weeks too. I permanantly got out of a very black hole, but I went back to my "normal depression".
>
> This dr suggests not spacing out the ECT so much as I move to maintenace. I had a few about 2 weeks later. After one of them I felt really agitated. I have never heard of it possibly trigering bipolar. Agitation is on the bipolar side.
>
> A lot of information says that ECT is more suited for a major depression episode than chronic. I really hope that's not the case with me. Haven't started it yet, but I will probably within the next 2 weeks.
Posted by alchemy on July 18, 2011, at 7:57:07
In reply to Re: Update- My experience with ECT, posted by PhoenixGirl on July 14, 2011, at 20:21:02
> Alchemy, did you start ECT? How is it going?
I am actually in the middle of figuring it out, so I haven't started. But even this morning I was wondering if I should start tomorrow.
Someone who has been training me at work asked if I was even interested in my job or planning to leave. She was nice about it, I'm probably just not hiding the fact that I'm barely hanging on.
She also said she plans on even loading my training schedule more - which means there is a huge conflict with ECT memory & work. My dept. has also become so busy that my boss would not be letting me take the time off I need.
So I feel like I'm in a no-win situation, but I need to get off this miserable ride somehow. And when it's been like this my whole life, I'm nearing 40, do I take the jump into the unknown?
After feeling like I am having a nervous breakdown, there is one possibility I thought of. Quit to go to school for fall. Even if it is only a semester I at least would have a reason for another break in my resume. I still don't know what I want to do, but I would just hope that I would feel better to have some kind of motivation. Even if I felt well I still wouldn't really like my job.
I should apply for dissability at the same time - not knowing which way I will turn out. But I don't want to live like I'm just barely hanging on. This sucks.
It's all a gamble. I do know that I will lose some memory & I will feel better for at least a little while. So besides all of my anesthesia fears and my work issue - will maintenance keep me up? That is my big question.
Advise?
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