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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jedi on June 18, 2011, at 10:29:35
Hi Guys,
Nardil is far from a perfect medication. It is what they call a "dirty" drug with effects on many different neurotransmitters (serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, GABA - just to name the major ones). It has been around since the late 1950s and I have heard of people being on it for over 30 years. There are a lot of side effects, but most of these can be handled with time or additional medication.The thing about Nardil, is it is never a first tier treatment. Should be 2nd tier for certain types of depression (severe atypical depression with social anxiety), as far as I'm concerned. So here you have a medication that is only used after failure of probably at least four other medications(usually a lot more), and it causes remission. By the time a seriously depressed person gets on Nardil, they have been sick for a very long time. I was lucky, my first PDOC was good. I got a phenelzine trial after fluoxetine, amoxapine, sertraline, venlafaxine, and attempted augmentation with lithium. That's two SSRIs, a tetracyclic or tricyclic, and a SNRI, plus lithium. About the minimum before a MAOI is even given a chance. And after all of this the MAOI works a large percentage of the time.
Over the past 13 years, after Nardil first worked for me, I've discontinued it a half dozen times for various reasons. Usually for trials of newer medications. After a period of months my major depression has always returned. So now I'm a lifer, baring a major breakthrough in the psychopharmocology field. Not too many of us expect that!
Anyway, this medication that has been around for over 50 years just works for some of us. It surely is not perfect. But so far, at least for me, it keeps me alive and out of that "black hole".
I think the rate of poop out is a lot less than with the newer medications. How many people have been on Prozac for 20 years and are still doing well? Chances are, they are off of it and on to some other medication. Or their depression wasn't serious enough to require an antidepressant in the first place.
Just my humble opinion,
Jedi
Posted by viper1431 on June 18, 2011, at 10:47:00
In reply to What I like about Nardil!, posted by jedi on June 18, 2011, at 10:29:35
I'm loving it, it's helping my social anxiety at last. Just wish i could sleep though!! I'm going to end up going crazy from lack of sleep at this rate.
Posted by Phillipa on June 18, 2011, at 12:06:34
In reply to Re: What I like about Nardil!, posted by viper1431 on June 18, 2011, at 10:47:00
Jedi I think you hit the nail on the head is the depression severe enough to require an ad for all those years. So glad yours is working for so long and so well. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on June 18, 2011, at 12:59:14
In reply to What I like about Nardil!, posted by jedi on June 18, 2011, at 10:29:35
Jedi,
Picking up on vipers' question, do you have insomnia and how do you treat it?
Thanks.
fb
Posted by jedi on June 18, 2011, at 23:08:03
In reply to Re: What I like about Nardil! » jedi, posted by floatingbridge on June 18, 2011, at 12:59:14
> Jedi,
>
> Picking up on vipers' question, do you have insomnia and how do you treat it?
>
> Thanks.
>
> fbHi fb,
I originally used trazodone, but that left me way to drugged out. Even hungover in the morning. I've used very low dose Seroquel - 12.5 to 25mg. Now I do just fine on 50mg of Benadryl and .5mg of clonazepam. I am really sensitive to the histamine receptor medications so I'm kind of lucky that way. Most people that use Nardil will have to treat the insomnia. It is one of the side effects that gets better, but never quite goes away.
Be well girl,
Jedi
Posted by zonked on June 19, 2011, at 7:55:47
In reply to What I like about Nardil!, posted by jedi on June 18, 2011, at 10:29:35
> Hi Guys,
> Nardil is far from a perfect medication. It is what they call a "dirty" drug with effects on many different neurotransmitters (serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, GABA - just to name the major ones). It has been around since the late 1950s and I have heard of people being on it for over 30 years. There are a lot of side effects, but most of these can be handled with time or additional medication.
<I am determined to at least *try* to not gain significant amounts of weight, and if, despite my best efforts I do anyway? Better fat than dead!
And after all of this the MAOI works a large percentage of the time.I am also a living testament to this. Wouldn't you agree that, if not for the food and med interactions, Nardil would be FAR more commonly prescribed? I wonder if not for those things, if it would displace Prozac.
> Over the past 13 years, after Nardil first worked for me, I've discontinued it a half dozen times for various reasons. Usually for trials of newer medications. After a period of months my major depression has always returned. So now I'm a lifer, baring a major breakthrough in the psychopharmocology field. Not too many of us expect that!
>
> Anyway, this medication that has been around for over 50 years just works for some of us. It surely is not perfect. But so far, at least for me, it keeps me alive and out of that "black hole".
<None of them are. But once again I agree. :-)
> Just my humble opinion,
> JediWhich is also mine. =)
-z
Posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 8:37:27
In reply to Re: What I (also!) like about Nardil! » jedi, posted by zonked on June 19, 2011, at 7:55:47
> > Hi Guys,
> > Nardil is far from a perfect medication. It is what they call a "dirty" drug with effects on many different neurotransmitters (serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, GABA - just to name the major ones). It has been around since the late 1950s and I have heard of people being on it for over 30 years. There are a lot of side effects, but most of these can be handled with time or additional medication.
> <
>
> I am determined to at least *try* to not gain significant amounts of weight, and if, despite my best efforts I do anyway? Better fat than dead!
> And after all of this the MAOI works a large percentage of the time.
>
> I am also a living testament to this. Wouldn't you agree that, if not for the food and med interactions, Nardil would be FAR more commonly prescribed? I wonder if not for those things, if it would displace Prozac.
>
> > Over the past 13 years, after Nardil first worked for me, I've discontinued it a half dozen times for various reasons. Usually for trials of newer medications. After a period of months my major depression has always returned. So now I'm a lifer, baring a major breakthrough in the psychopharmocology field. Not too many of us expect that!
> >
> > Anyway, this medication that has been around for over 50 years just works for some of us. It surely is not perfect. But so far, at least for me, it keeps me alive and out of that "black hole".
> <
>
> None of them are. But once again I agree. :-)
>
> > Just my humble opinion,
> > Jedi
>
> Which is also mine. =)
>
> -z
>
Prozac... -.-Isnt it like placebo works for 40% and prozac for 45%?
Those are some pathetic stats combined with the fact that it needs 5 weeks of washout
Posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 9:28:34
In reply to Re: What I (also!) like about Nardil!, posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 8:37:27
Even venlafaxine didnt do balls for me
Posted by floatingbridge on June 23, 2011, at 9:51:44
In reply to Re: What I (also!) like about Nardil!, posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 8:37:27
Yes, but to be within that 40-45% would be grand. A friend has been maintaining on prozac for at least 10 years.
Posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 11:38:33
In reply to Re: What I (also!) like about Nardil! » Lamdage, posted by floatingbridge on June 23, 2011, at 9:51:44
> Yes, but to be within that 40-45% would be grand. A friend has been maintaining on prozac for at least 10 years.
>
>Yet i just cant understand how pdocs can use a med that will help 1 out of 20 patients, probably 5 out of 20 will feel worse than before AND i couldnt put them on something new until 5 weeks have passed. If it was for nardil or parnate to have this washout period OK, but for a firstline treatment which is not really likely to be effective this is really poor. Doing this to any considerably depressed person should be considered a crime.
Imagine how often it gets prescribed. How many suicides? How many people wasted years and years to come on med trials? To me this is clear evidence that neither the doctors nor the pharma companies give a damn.
Posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 11:47:40
In reply to Re: What I (also!) like about Nardil!, posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 11:38:33
> > Yes, but to be within that 40-45% would be grand. A friend has been maintaining on prozac for at least 10 years.
> >
> >
>
> Yet i just cant understand how pdocs can use a med that will help 1 out of 20 patients, probably 5 out of 20 will feel worse than before AND i couldnt put them on something new until 5 weeks have passed. If it was for nardil or parnate to have this washout period OK, but for a firstline treatment which is not really likely to be effective this is really poor. Doing this to any considerably depressed person should be considered a crime.
>
> Imagine how often it gets prescribed. How many suicides? How many people wasted years and years to come on med trials? To me this is clear evidence that neither the doctors nor the pharma companies give a damn.The most prescribed most profitable med and the poorest performance ive ever heard of. Something is seriously wrong
Posted by floatingbridge on June 23, 2011, at 12:22:47
In reply to Re: What I (also!) like about Nardil!, posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 11:38:33
I hear you Lamdage. I'm just cranky and bitter off my meds.
How is it going for you?
fb
>
> Yet i just cant understand how pdocs can use a med that will help 1 out of 20 patients, probably 5 out of 20 will feel worse than before AND i couldnt put them on something new until 5 weeks have passed. If it was for nardil or parnate to have this washout period OK, but for a firstline treatment which is not really likely to be effective this is really poor. Doing this to any considerably depressed person should be considered a crime.
>
> Imagine how often it gets prescribed. How many suicides? How many people wasted years and years to come on med trials? To me this is clear evidence that neither the doctors nor the pharma companies give a damn.
Posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 16:12:06
In reply to Re: What I (also!) like about Nardil! » Lamdage, posted by floatingbridge on June 23, 2011, at 12:22:47
> I hear you Lamdage. I'm just cranky and bitter off my meds.
>
> How is it going for you?
>
> fb
>
>
> >
> > Yet i just cant understand how pdocs can use a med that will help 1 out of 20 patients, probably 5 out of 20 will feel worse than before AND i couldnt put them on something new until 5 weeks have passed. If it was for nardil or parnate to have this washout period OK, but for a firstline treatment which is not really likely to be effective this is really poor. Doing this to any considerably depressed person should be considered a crime.
> >
> > Imagine how often it gets prescribed. How many suicides? How many people wasted years and years to come on med trials? To me this is clear evidence that neither the doctors nor the pharma companies give a damn.
>
>Im doing ok.. not exactly great but the phenelzine is in my veins again, this fact alone has some placebo potential ;)
I figured to stick to cabergoline for this transition period now, already had some experience with it. At least some dopamine action to keep me functioning.
I know at some point i need to let go off everything else and then ramp up the phenelzine. 45 was effective for me back then. Im not sure how im going to do all this.. basically i go by feel and with the "wisdom" from the last phenelzine trial. I def do not wanna go past 45 without waiting for the effect for like 3-4 weeks.. Maybe im a slow metabolizer of phenelzine or sth.Did you choose to make a change with your meds?
Posted by floatingbridge on June 23, 2011, at 17:45:58
In reply to Re: What I (also!) like about Nardil!, posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 16:12:06
Hi Lamdage,
Placebo or whatever the cause, glad you are feeling a bit better :-)
My meds kinda' fell apart. So, there wasn't any planned med change. Guess it's transitional. That's the best way for me to approach this and take it as an opportunity to begin again. But it's tough going, I admit. A day to day, hour by hour type of thing.
Posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2011, at 20:17:09
In reply to Re: What I (also!) like about Nardil!, posted by Lamdage on June 23, 2011, at 11:38:33
I know an old poster from here who was on nardil, parnate, had ECT and his saving grace is prozac. He's taking it and finally back working again . So for some it's a great med. Phillipa
Posted by Lamdage on June 25, 2011, at 3:49:35
In reply to Re: What I (also!) like about Nardil! » Lamdage, posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2011, at 20:17:09
> I know an old poster from here who was on nardil, parnate, had ECT and his saving grace is prozac. He's taking it and finally back working again . So for some it's a great med. Phillipa
I want to have his doctor.
Posted by Phillipa on June 25, 2011, at 19:44:29
In reply to Re: What I (also!) like about Nardil!, posted by Lamdage on June 25, 2011, at 3:49:35
Don't know it think he's in Washington State. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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