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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by medamorphosis on January 3, 2011, at 10:03:03
You can all see my main conditions in my signature below. Now every time an antidepressant works for me it seems to work on a rota- i.e. a few good days followed by a few bad days. Never get any highs, but is this an indication of rapid cycle unipolar disorder? Would a mood stabiliser help? I've been offered lithium at one poin. The offers still open but im slightly scared to add lithium. How difficult is it to find the right dose and is it even worth me trying? I know it can have alot of side effects and needs a gelular blood level chaeck, but will it make me DUMB or will it enhance my ADs and get rid of the ups & downs? Im thinking of it but somewhat too scared to try it. It would be the biggest gun I've consumed as part of a med strategy.
What do people think? Like I said I'm totally unfamiliar with the drug. How bad can the side effects get?
Thanks,med
Posted by BayLeaf on January 3, 2011, at 10:10:58
In reply to Serious question. No offensive replies please., posted by medamorphosis on January 3, 2011, at 10:03:03
IMO, if you are an alcoholic, I would stay away from Lithium since it impacts the liver so much. Your liver is working hard enough to recover.
Wish I could make an alternative suggestion. I'll let wiser folks do that.
Posted by medamorphosis on January 3, 2011, at 10:14:32
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » medamorphosis, posted by BayLeaf on January 3, 2011, at 10:10:58
> IMO, if you are an alcoholic, I would stay away from Lithium since it impacts the liver so much. Your liver is working hard enough to recover.
>
> Wish I could make an alternative suggestion. I'll let wiser folks do that.That was a very wise statement and I will mention it to my pdoc. I doubt he'll let me go on it till im off the drink anyway. Thankyou for your contribution!
Posted by merpmerp on January 3, 2011, at 10:26:45
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » BayLeaf, posted by medamorphosis on January 3, 2011, at 10:14:32
I'm not a doctor and have no experience with several of the meds discussed here or in your sig, but has your doc ever mentioned Lamictal? From what I understand it can stop cycling and has more of an antidepressant quality than other mood stabilizers.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on January 3, 2011, at 10:33:25
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » BayLeaf, posted by medamorphosis on January 3, 2011, at 10:14:32
> > IMO, if you are an alcoholic, I would stay away from Lithium since it impacts the liver so much. Your liver is working hard enough to recover.
> >
> > Wish I could make an alternative suggestion. I'll let wiser folks do that.
>
> That was a very wise statement and I will mention it to my pdoc. I doubt he'll let me go on it till im off the drink anyway. Thankyou for your contribution!Hey, I second BayLeaf's wise advice. If you can speak frankly with your doc, see if there are alternatives that won't tax your liver or kidneys too much.
Alternatively, there is a medication that helps to control alcohol cravings that does NOT interfere with psych meds, and that is Campral (acamprosate). It all depends on which way you want to go; but you do have to be honest.
PartlyCloudy
Posted by medamorphosis on January 3, 2011, at 11:19:16
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please., posted by merpmerp on January 3, 2011, at 10:26:45
> I'm not a doctor and have no experience with several of the meds discussed here or in your sig, but has your doc ever mentioned Lamictal? From what I understand it can stop cycling and has more of an antidepressant quality than other mood stabilizers.
Yes I tried Lamictal. Hated it. May as well have been an SSRI ZZZzzzzz.......
Posted by medamorphosis on January 3, 2011, at 11:29:11
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » medamorphosis, posted by PartlyCloudy on January 3, 2011, at 10:33:25
> > > IMO, if you are an alcoholic, I would stay away from Lithium since it impacts the liver so much. Your liver is working hard enough to recover.
> > >
> > > Wish I could make an alternative suggestion. I'll let wiser folks do that.
> >
> > That was a very wise statement and I will mention it to my pdoc. I doubt he'll let me go on it till im off the drink anyway. Thankyou for your contribution!
>
> Hey, I second BayLeaf's wise advice. If you can speak frankly with your doc, see if there are alternatives that won't tax your liver or kidneys too much.
>
> Alternatively, there is a medication that helps to control alcohol cravings that does NOT interfere with psych meds, and that is Campral (acamprosate). It all depends on which way you want to go; but you do have to be honest.
>
> PartlyCloudy
>
>
>acamprosate? It dont stop my craving. It dont work for me unfortunitely. But thanks tho.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on January 3, 2011, at 14:19:05
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » PartlyCloudy, posted by medamorphosis on January 3, 2011, at 11:29:11
> > > > IMO, if you are an alcoholic, I would stay away from Lithium since it impacts the liver so much. Your liver is working hard enough to recover.
> > > >
> > > > Wish I could make an alternative suggestion. I'll let wiser folks do that.
> > >
> > > That was a very wise statement and I will mention it to my pdoc. I doubt he'll let me go on it till im off the drink anyway. Thankyou for your contribution!
> >
> > Hey, I second BayLeaf's wise advice. If you can speak frankly with your doc, see if there are alternatives that won't tax your liver or kidneys too much.
> >
> > Alternatively, there is a medication that helps to control alcohol cravings that does NOT interfere with psych meds, and that is Campral (acamprosate). It all depends on which way you want to go; but you do have to be honest.
> >
> > PartlyCloudy
> >
> >
> >
>
> acamprosate? It dont stop my craving. It dont work for me unfortunitely. But thanks tho.Sorry, thought I would throw it out there as it worked for me. I was on it for a year and a half before I weaned off.
I guess it depends whether you plan to continue drinking, because that in itself will make treating depression more difficult - at least it was for me. And I found that stopping the drinking was a much bigger deal than just, say, stopping drinking (duh). I needed a village, as they say. The 12-step stuff didn't work try and try as I might, and that's what most programs are based on. I felt like I had a great big "loser" sign hung around my neck.
I realize this is probably off topic. Or maybe it isn't, I don't know. All I know is that for me, things became if not easier, then more straightforward with my depression and anxiety and panic. Geez, the whole drinking thing had its own anxiety built right into it (but I was a closet drinker, so there was a lot of secrecy involved).
Enough about me.
Lithium, btw, didn't agree with my body or mind when I tried it. Mostly due to my psychiatrist's attempts to treat me as bipolar when I wasn't - I was a person with depression and anxiety who drank, and I think it made the symptoms pretty messed up.
I changed doctors. Then I kept a mood chart faithfully for 30 days straight, and it indicated that I was NOT bipolar.PartlyCloudy
Posted by BayLeaf on January 3, 2011, at 14:25:45
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » PartlyCloudy, posted by medamorphosis on January 3, 2011, at 11:29:11
have you tried topamax? (topiramate)
Posted by medamorphosis on January 4, 2011, at 3:06:13
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » medamorphosis, posted by PartlyCloudy on January 3, 2011, at 14:19:05
> > > > > IMO, if you are an alcoholic, I would stay away from Lithium since it impacts the liver so much. Your liver is working hard enough to recover.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wish I could make an alternative suggestion. I'll let wiser folks do that.
> > > >
> > > > That was a very wise statement and I will mention it to my pdoc. I doubt he'll let me go on it till im off the drink anyway. Thankyou for your contribution!
> > >
> > > Hey, I second BayLeaf's wise advice. If you can speak frankly with your doc, see if there are alternatives that won't tax your liver or kidneys too much.
> > >
> > > Alternatively, there is a medication that helps to control alcohol cravings that does NOT interfere with psych meds, and that is Campral (acamprosate). It all depends on which way you want to go; but you do have to be honest.
> > >
> > > PartlyCloudy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > acamprosate? It dont stop my craving. It dont work for me unfortunitely. But thanks tho.
>
> Sorry, thought I would throw it out there as it worked for me. I was on it for a year and a half before I weaned off.
>
> I guess it depends whether you plan to continue drinking, because that in itself will make treating depression more difficult - at least it was for me. And I found that stopping the drinking was a much bigger deal than just, say, stopping drinking (duh). I needed a village, as they say. The 12-step stuff didn't work try and try as I might, and that's what most programs are based on. I felt like I had a great big "loser" sign hung around my neck.
>
> I realize this is probably off topic. Or maybe it isn't, I don't know. All I know is that for me, things became if not easier, then more straightforward with my depression and anxiety and panic. Geez, the whole drinking thing had its own anxiety built right into it (but I was a closet drinker, so there was a lot of secrecy involved).
>
> Enough about me.
>
> Lithium, btw, didn't agree with my body or mind when I tried it. Mostly due to my psychiatrist's attempts to treat me as bipolar when I wasn't - I was a person with depression and anxiety who drank, and I think it made the symptoms pretty messed up.
> I changed doctors. Then I kept a mood chart faithfully for 30 days straight, and it indicated that I was NOT bipolar.
>
> PartlyCloudy
>
>Thanx! Your post is totally relevant! I need to stop drinking and probably pot smoking too. Had no pot yesterday and ive just woke after 6hrs sleep- thats MY sorta sleep as I normall top 10hrs or alot more. Im still drinking tho. Feel like id be depressed EVERYDAY without it. My ADs seem to work better with drink and its like another med- like an extra benzo if you like. Needs to stop I know but the world is sitting on my shoulders at the mo. Money problems being the worst thing. But my pdoc wont even give me antabuse untill im 4 weeks off! I said just give it to me so i cant drink! but no, 4 weeks sober he said. Anyway, ive heaps more to deal with- debts (personal and legal), being isolated, avoidance of everything at present (ready to be put on the streets). A load more related stuff. But thats for me to deal with. Been like this for over 2 yrs. Cant take much more.
12 steps is sh*te for me too. If only i dared say my true feelings about AA! Id get banned lol.
Luckily I DO have one self help group to go to which i must stop avoiding- an SA group. I plan to restart goin this Thurs. Been better than any AA meeting ive ever had!med
Posted by medamorphosis on January 4, 2011, at 3:09:07
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » medamorphosis, posted by BayLeaf on January 3, 2011, at 14:25:45
> have you tried topamax? (topiramate)
No i haven't. Is it a mood stabilizer? Can I take with my other meds? Available in the UK? Ive heard plenty about it but never taken notice. Please tell me more!
med
Posted by PartlyCloudy on January 4, 2011, at 8:19:34
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » PartlyCloudy, posted by medamorphosis on January 4, 2011, at 3:06:13
> Thanx! Your post is totally relevant! I need to stop drinking and probably pot smoking too. Had no pot yesterday and ive just woke after 6hrs sleep- thats MY sorta sleep as I normall top 10hrs or alot more. Im still drinking tho. Feel like id be depressed EVERYDAY without it. My ADs seem to work better with drink and its like another med- like an extra benzo if you like. Needs to stop I know but the world is sitting on my shoulders at the mo. Money problems being the worst thing. But my pdoc wont even give me antabuse untill im 4 weeks off! I said just give it to me so i cant drink! but no, 4 weeks sober he said. Anyway, ive heaps more to deal with- debts (personal and legal), being isolated, avoidance of everything at present (ready to be put on the streets). A load more related stuff. But thats for me to deal with. Been like this for over 2 yrs. Cant take much more.
> 12 steps is sh*te for me too. If only i dared say my true feelings about AA! Id get banned lol.
> Luckily I DO have one self help group to go to which i must stop avoiding- an SA group. I plan to restart goin this Thurs. Been better than any AA meeting ive ever had!
>
> medYeah, I understand where your doctor is coming from with the antabuse. I don't think it works unless your system is alcohol free to begin with (otherwise you'd start puking from the get-go). And AA is held up as the gold standard of support groups. I must have RUN from scores of meetings having felt like an utter failure. There are alternatives out there that your doctor might not be aware of, that are still based on abstinence from alcohol but are not 12-step. I found a women's group that I used along with one-on-one therapy. (I've been sober 5 1/2 years. So not an old timer, but the holidays this year were not a trigger for me, woo hoo!)
I hear where you are coming from with your personal problems, Med; I am sorry for them and I understand. I know that taking drinking out of the equation will not make those problems go away, just as it didn't do it for me. What it did do, though, was eventually make me better equipped to deal with my life's issues.
If you ever want to Babblemail me instead of talking "out loud" on the boards about this stuff, I'm more than happy to.
p.s. I speak Brit as I lived over there for 7 years and have scads of family there too.
pc
Posted by BayLeaf on January 4, 2011, at 17:44:52
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » BayLeaf, posted by medamorphosis on January 4, 2011, at 3:09:07
I'm no expert - I just know that Topamax can decrease cravings for alcohol, as can Naltrexone. Try posting separately here perhaps, for additional info, Google, and talk to your pdoc. At least in the US, pdocs are just beginning to have a clue about prescribing meds to help people get sober and stay sober.
Stay away from antabuse unless you are going to die from liver failure dude. That stuff sends people to the hospital they get so sick.
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 4, 2011, at 19:43:37
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » medamorphosis, posted by BayLeaf on January 4, 2011, at 17:44:52
AA has been life-saving for me. Total love and support. Nobody judges you negatively for what you say, even if you say you hate AA.
Posted by medamorphosis on January 4, 2011, at 20:18:37
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » medamorphosis, posted by BayLeaf on January 4, 2011, at 17:44:52
> I'm no expert - I just know that Topamax can decrease cravings for alcohol, as can Naltrexone. Try posting separately here perhaps, for additional info, Google, and talk to your pdoc. At least in the US, pdocs are just beginning to have a clue about prescribing meds to help people get sober and stay sober.
>
> Stay away from antabuse unless you are going to die from liver failure dude. That stuff sends people to the hospital they get so sick.THANX! I'll bare all that in mind and talk to my pdoc about topamax.
med x
Posted by medamorphosis on January 4, 2011, at 20:24:02
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please., posted by emmanuel98 on January 4, 2011, at 19:43:37
> AA has been life-saving for me. Total love and support. Nobody judges you negatively for what you say, even if you say you hate AA.
I really am glad AA has been so helpfull for you. I just dont get those 12 steps. They put shivers down my spine! Definitely not a place for me. And I've been to dozens of meetings. Nobody offers to be a sponser and im left feeling just as alone as when i walked in. Good luck to you tho.
Med
Posted by BayLeaf on January 5, 2011, at 21:33:49
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please., posted by emmanuel98 on January 4, 2011, at 19:43:37
no one will ever offer to be your sponsor...you have to reach out and ask. that's the process. it's tough, but it's part of getting sober via AA. it's ain't easy but i've seen it work for a LOT of people. i would suggest going even if you hate the steps. go just to meet sober people to hang out with and share coffee. once you sober up, you'll find you have time to kill anyhow since all that hang over time is gone. :-)
Posted by medamorphosis on January 6, 2011, at 18:04:02
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » emmanuel98, posted by BayLeaf on January 5, 2011, at 21:33:49
I appreciate your comments but Id rather stay isolated for the rest of my life than go to AA. Its a very selfish program. ei, the point of 'helping' people is only to keep urself sober. Thats it.
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 6, 2011, at 20:04:05
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » emmanuel98, posted by BayLeaf on January 5, 2011, at 21:33:49
It's true that if you raise your hand and say you're new, or that you're having a hard time or that you need a sponsor, you will generally be deluged with phone numbers and surrounded at the end of the meeting. Also, you don't need to work the steps to get help and fellowship from AA. It's a suggestion, not a mandate. There are no mandates in AA. Even stopping drinking is not a mandate. It's a program for "those who have a desire to stop drinking"
> no one will ever offer to be your sponsor...you
have to reach out and ask. that's the process. it's tough, but it's part of getting sober via AA. it's ain't easy but i've seen it work for a LOT of people. i would suggest going even if you hate the steps. go just to meet sober people to hang out with and share coffee. once you sober up, you'll find you have time to kill anyhow since all that hang over time is gone. :-)
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 6, 2011, at 20:08:30
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please. » BayLeaf, posted by medamorphosis on January 6, 2011, at 18:04:02
> I appreciate your comments but Id rather stay isolated for the rest of my life than go to AA. Its a very selfish program. ei, the point of 'helping' people is only to keep urself sober. Thats it.
That's a funny way to see it. People do say that helping others helps them. But isn't that true of everything? If a friend reaches out for help and you help them, it takes your mind off yourself and makes you feel good about yourself and gives you tools to solve your own problems. They also say in AA that a problem shared is a problem halved.
Posted by medamorphosis on January 6, 2011, at 20:36:48
In reply to Re: Serious question. No offensive replies please., posted by emmanuel98 on January 6, 2011, at 20:08:30
> > I appreciate your comments but Id rather stay isolated for the rest of my life than go to AA. Its a very selfish program. ei, the point of 'helping' people is only to keep urself sober. Thats it.
>
> That's a funny way to see it. People do say that helping others helps them. But isn't that true of everything? If a friend reaches out for help and you help them, it takes your mind off yourself and makes you feel good about yourself and gives you tools to solve your own problems. They also say in AA that a problem shared is a problem halved.Im sorry but what i wrote above is true. I've lived in a dry house for a year and learned that what I said above is FACT.
Posted by creepy on January 13, 2011, at 9:52:51
In reply to Serious question. No offensive replies please., posted by medamorphosis on January 3, 2011, at 10:03:03
Hmm, thats a tough one.
Ive experienced good startup effects that peter out after awhile and leave me feeling only a little better than depressed. Usually those meds are NRI, NDRI or stimulant in nature.
Serotonin meds seem to be the only ones that will lift me up and keep me there. I tried like hell to stay clear of them due to weight gain but its not happening.
I dont think this is related to rapid cycling. I think its that either you havent found the right med that works with your particular flavor of brain / illness, or that youre mistaking startup hypomania for euthymia on a med.
have you tried (Im guessing the order of SE's versus benefit): SSRIs, SSRI+wellbutrin (or buspar), SNRI, TCA, SSRI + lamictal, SSRI + AAP, MAOI?
I know its frustrating.. seriously. especially when depression cripples you and you cant function. =(
This is the end of the thread.
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