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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Huxley on September 11, 2010, at 2:21:53
Is there anything that can help with Zyprexa withdrawal? It is hell on earth. Is it caused by a cholinergic rebound?
Posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2010, at 10:48:39
In reply to ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by Huxley on September 11, 2010, at 2:21:53
Huxley I didn't know there was withdrawal with zyprexa. Makes me wonder why benzos considered so addictive sounds like zyprexa as all med are withdrawal prone. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 11, 2010, at 14:30:31
In reply to ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by Huxley on September 11, 2010, at 2:21:53
>Is there anything that can help with Zyprexa withdrawal?
They sedating antihistamine promethazine (Phenergan) might help with symptoms such as insomnia, nausea and agitation.
>Is it caused by a cholinergic rebound?Probably not, or only to a small extent. Olanzapine is only modestly anticholinergic. The withdrawal symptoms occur when all the different subtypes of dopamine and serotonin receptors which were previously blocked by the drug, aren't blocked anymore.
Slow tapering is vital + the use of 'milder' drugs such as promethazine where appropriate.
Best of luck.
Posted by bleauberry on September 11, 2010, at 16:12:45
In reply to ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by Huxley on September 11, 2010, at 2:21:53
Zyprexa impacts a whole bunch of different receptors, so I don't think there is any way to point at cholinergic or anything else in particular. It's likely a combination of a bunch of em...various serotonin, various dopamine, histamine, and dozens of genes.
After being on zyprexa for 8 years it was a 3 month process to wean off, dropping down in tiny steps by cutting little bits off the pills. The hardest part was the last 1.25mg. I was reducing the dose by mere crumbs each day. After the final dose, withdrawals still hit pretty hard after about 3 days. It took maybe 3 months to totally stabilize into a baseline. During that time I took a few crumbs of zyprexa when the going was real hard, and relied on some as-needed herbs that were helpful too. There is no substitute for time. Don't be afraid to take a tiny amount if it is really bad. It won't set you back unless you start taking it every day.
Posted by Huxley on September 11, 2010, at 20:31:23
In reply to Re: ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by bleauberry on September 11, 2010, at 16:12:45
I am in such a trap.
I still function in day to day life. I run a small company which is succsesful.
I can't afford to take a day of work let alone 5+ weeks to get off this posion.
My doctors are no help at all, they refuse to believe it is withdrawal and say it is my original symptoms returning.
I don't remember being nausiated to the point of throwing up consistantly through out the day, sick with the flu, hard to breath, panic attacks, of the scale anxiety, diahrea, and fainting before I was on it.
If I go through Zyprexa withdrawal I will lose the company that I have built up over the years.
So I either stay on Zyprexa or lose my livelihood.
And If I stay on Zyprexa, I have read in alot of places that withdrawals get worse the longer you are on it. And it is already at the point where I really am struggling with the belief that I could actually do it so if it gets any worse hospitalization would be needed.
I am currently stable on about .6mg but anytime I go below that, even a minute amount is pretty much CT.
So what do I do? I really cant see a way out of this. Live in misery or lose everything I have which is really just a new form of misery.
And they are putting kids on this stuff.
Posted by Huxley on September 11, 2010, at 20:32:29
In reply to Re: ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 11, 2010, at 14:30:31
ps, thanks ed and bleuberry for your responses.
I read somewhere that Trazedon might help. What are your thoughts on that?
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2010, at 20:47:42
In reply to Re: ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by Huxley on September 11, 2010, at 20:31:23
> I am in such a trap.
>
> I still function in day to day life. I run a small company which is succsesful.
>
> I can't afford to take a day of work let alone 5+ weeks to get off this posion.
>
> My doctors are no help at all, they refuse to believe it is withdrawal and say it is my original symptoms returning.
>
> I don't remember being nausiated to the point of throwing up consistantly through out the day, sick with the flu, hard to breath, panic attacks, of the scale anxiety, diahrea, and fainting before I was on it.
>
> If I go through Zyprexa withdrawal I will lose the company that I have built up over the years.
>
> So I either stay on Zyprexa or lose my livelihood.
>
> And If I stay on Zyprexa, I have read in alot of places that withdrawals get worse the longer you are on it. And it is already at the point where I really am struggling with the belief that I could actually do it so if it gets any worse hospitalization would be needed.
>
> I am currently stable on about .6mg but anytime I go below that, even a minute amount is pretty much CT.
>
> So what do I do? I really cant see a way out of this. Live in misery or lose everything I have which is really just a new form of misery.
>
> And they are putting kids on this stuff.Hux, You wrote,[...So what do I do?...can't see a way out...].
I know of a way out, but I can not post it here.
You might find it elsewhere.
But as to the business, I may be able to help you save it under the conditions that you are in now. You see, I see you in tribulation and I could be a partner in tribulation.
And another poster here posted that there is a lack of the chemical when one withdrawals and the lack causes what you are experiancing. But there is much more to this and learning about the condition that is happening could help in a way out.
Lou
Posted by morgan miller on September 12, 2010, at 1:42:27
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-eighweighowt, posted by morgan miller on September 12, 2010, at 1:39:57
It took me a while to get used to being off Zyprexa. I don't think I could have done it if I had not started lithium treatment.
Did you say you are taking about .6 mg or 6 mg?
I have a few recommendations for natural remedies if you are open to them:
Ginger Root-may calm the nausea and relax you a bit
Holy Basil(New Chapter's)-pretty powerful herb that calms/eases the mind-also may lower blood glucose and increase insulin secretion
Glycine-3 to 4 grams at night for sleep Low dose lithium-yes I consider this a natural option-you can get a good orotate form of lithium from Vitamin Research Products-if you try this, maybe 10 mg in the morning and 10 mg in the evening
Magnesium Taurinate-400 mg in the morning and 400 at night
Cordyceps-3 to 4 grams in the morning. Opens up lungs making it easier to breath. I find it to have an energizing and anxiety relieving effect
Good luck, withdrawal like the one you're experiencing is a complete nightmare. It may take some time for your brain to adjust. Hang in there!
Morgan
Posted by huxley on September 12, 2010, at 3:33:09
In reply to Zyprexa Withdrawal, posted by morgan miller on September 12, 2010, at 1:42:27
> It took me a while to get used to being off Zyprexa. I don't think I could have done it if I had not started lithium treatment.
>
> Did you say you are taking about .6 mg or 6 mg?
>
> I have a few recommendations for natural remedies if you are open to them:
>
> Ginger Root-may calm the nausea and relax you a bit
> Holy Basil(New Chapter's)-pretty powerful herb that calms/eases the mind-also may lower blood glucose and increase insulin secretion
> Glycine-3 to 4 grams at night for sleep Low dose lithium-yes I consider this a natural option-you can get a good orotate form of lithium from Vitamin Research Products-if you try this, maybe 10 mg in the morning and 10 mg in the evening
> Magnesium Taurinate-400 mg in the morning and 400 at night
> Cordyceps-3 to 4 grams in the morning. Opens up lungs making it easier to breath. I find it to have an energizing and anxiety relieving effect
>
> Good luck, withdrawal like the one you're experiencing is a complete nightmare. It may take some time for your brain to adjust. Hang in there!
>
> Morgan
>
>
>Thanks morgan, am defintly open to natural solutions. Will look into them.
Am currently stable on 0.6mg down from 5.0mg.
If I go below this level then it feels like CT.Did you get bad withdrawals from Zyprexa? How long did the process take?
Posted by huxley on September 12, 2010, at 4:06:53
In reply to ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by Huxley on September 11, 2010, at 2:21:53
Would switching to another AP help? Something like Abilify help?
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 12, 2010, at 5:31:08
In reply to Re: ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by huxley on September 12, 2010, at 4:06:53
> Would switching to another AP help? Something like Abilify help?
>
Friends,
It is written here,[...would switching to another AP help?...]
If you are considering posting in this thread or parallel threads, I am requesting that you view the following video.
There are some things in it that I think could help you if you are wanting to have the chemicals that you are taking out of your system and in relation to the consequences to you from withdrawing from the drug. I think that lives could be saved here by people following this thread because I intend to post here how one could find a way out from addiction and withdrawal from drugs such as the one mentioned here.
I may not be able to post here what I think could save lives, but there is the chance that you could go elsewhere to find what I am not allowed to post here according to the rules that Mr.Hsiung has drafted here. That then could give me the assurance that I at least tried to give infomation that could save lives and did the best that I could under the rules here.
The infomation that I could post here concerns what the chemicals do to those that take them. Then if that could be known, there could be a way out by understanding the chemical as a nerve agent and then understanding how the effects of nerve agents can be reversed.
I can do this but the 3 consecutive post rule here could cause an interuption/delay and possibly a halt to me providing the infomation that I think could save lives here.
You see, these drugs come from chemicals that have a chemical structure that has been known for centuries to be psychoactive in some way. So chemists work with these chemicals in modifying them, combining them and such to then have a new chemical. But the new chemical has an origin perhaps known thousands of years ago.
The chemical in discussion here is one that causes cancer and is part of other psychotropic drugs.
I would like first for those interested in this discussion to view the following video. The chemical in discussion is related to Zyprexa and I could show you the chemical relationship and then the action to the nervous system and then discuss a way out.
Lou
To see this video,
A. Bring up google
B. Type in:
[youtube,Xanax (anxiolytic addiction and withdrawal)]
You will see a picture of a lady and the video is 7 min and up loaded by psychtruth
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 12, 2010, at 7:40:39
In reply to Lou's request-eighwheyowt, posted by Lou Pilder on September 12, 2010, at 5:31:08
> > Would switching to another AP help? Something like Abilify help?
> >
> Friends,
> It is written here,[...would switching to another AP help?...]
> If you are considering posting in this thread or parallel threads, I am requesting that you view the following video.
> There are some things in it that I think could help you if you are wanting to have the chemicals that you are taking out of your system and in relation to the consequences to you from withdrawing from the drug. I think that lives could be saved here by people following this thread because I intend to post here how one could find a way out from addiction and withdrawal from drugs such as the one mentioned here.
> I may not be able to post here what I think could save lives, but there is the chance that you could go elsewhere to find what I am not allowed to post here according to the rules that Mr.Hsiung has drafted here. That then could give me the assurance that I at least tried to give infomation that could save lives and did the best that I could under the rules here.
> The infomation that I could post here concerns what the chemicals do to those that take them. Then if that could be known, there could be a way out by understanding the chemical as a nerve agent and then understanding how the effects of nerve agents can be reversed.
> I can do this but the 3 consecutive post rule here could cause an interuption/delay and possibly a halt to me providing the infomation that I think could save lives here.
> You see, these drugs come from chemicals that have a chemical structure that has been known for centuries to be psychoactive in some way. So chemists work with these chemicals in modifying them, combining them and such to then have a new chemical. But the new chemical has an origin perhaps known thousands of years ago.
> The chemical in discussion here is one that causes cancer and is part of other psychotropic drugs.
> I would like first for those interested in this discussion to view the following video. The chemical in discussion is related to Zyprexa and I could show you the chemical relationship and then the action to the nervous system and then discuss a way out.
> Lou
> To see this video,
> A. Bring up google
> B. Type in:
> [youtube,Xanax (anxiolytic addiction and withdrawal)]
> You will see a picture of a lady and the video is 7 min and up loaded by psychtruth
>
>
> Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread or parallel threads, I am requesting that you view the following video. (I am not a member of the group that has produced the video, yet I find no fault in their production.)
Lou
To view this video,
A. bring up google
B. Type in:
[youtube, Making, The Untold Story of Psychotropic Drugging Pt 8]
you will see a picture and the video is 10 min long posted on Jan 10,2009
Posted by morgan miller on September 12, 2010, at 11:58:20
In reply to Re: Zyprexa Withdrawal » morgan miller, posted by huxley on September 12, 2010, at 3:33:09
I didn't go through the kind of withdrawals you are experiencing. My withdrawal mostly consisted of a highly agitated fatigue and sleep disruption. It's taken me a few months to get back to sleeping better and feeling less agitated. Like I mentioned before, Lithium is a big reason why I am somewhat stabilized now without Zyprexa. I also believe some of the supplements I take have helped some.
I really believe that taking supplements that may improve brain function and healing can speed up recovery. Also, exercising at least 4 days a week will both help your brain heal and function better.
Sorry for asking, If I go back and read your first post I will probably know the answer to this, but what is CT?
I think it's encouraging that you are down to such a low dose and feeling stable and functional. It's just going to take some time to ween off Zyprexa completely, try to be patient.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on September 12, 2010, at 12:16:42
In reply to Re: ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by huxley on September 12, 2010, at 4:06:53
> Would switching to another AP help? Something like Abilify help?
>Do you really want to take another AP? I don't think Abilify would be a good replacement for Zyprexa.
Why did you want to get off Zyprexa?
What other medications have you tried?
If I were you I would start trying some supplements to ease the withdrawals a bit. Some of these supplements are things you may want to take for the rest of your life. Fish oil is one that comes to mind. Do you take fish oil? Others are Holy Basil by New Chapter's, Magnesium, and Glycine.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 12, 2010, at 14:57:41
In reply to Lou's request-eighwheyowt-cideeephekz, posted by Lou Pilder on September 12, 2010, at 7:40:39
> > > Would switching to another AP help? Something like Abilify help?
> > >
> > Friends,
> > It is written here,[...would switching to another AP help?...]
> > If you are considering posting in this thread or parallel threads, I am requesting that you view the following video.
> > There are some things in it that I think could help you if you are wanting to have the chemicals that you are taking out of your system and in relation to the consequences to you from withdrawing from the drug. I think that lives could be saved here by people following this thread because I intend to post here how one could find a way out from addiction and withdrawal from drugs such as the one mentioned here.
> > I may not be able to post here what I think could save lives, but there is the chance that you could go elsewhere to find what I am not allowed to post here according to the rules that Mr.Hsiung has drafted here. That then could give me the assurance that I at least tried to give infomation that could save lives and did the best that I could under the rules here.
> > The infomation that I could post here concerns what the chemicals do to those that take them. Then if that could be known, there could be a way out by understanding the chemical as a nerve agent and then understanding how the effects of nerve agents can be reversed.
> > I can do this but the 3 consecutive post rule here could cause an interuption/delay and possibly a halt to me providing the infomation that I think could save lives here.
> > You see, these drugs come from chemicals that have a chemical structure that has been known for centuries to be psychoactive in some way. So chemists work with these chemicals in modifying them, combining them and such to then have a new chemical. But the new chemical has an origin perhaps known thousands of years ago.
> > The chemical in discussion here is one that causes cancer and is part of other psychotropic drugs.
> > I would like first for those interested in this discussion to view the following video. The chemical in discussion is related to Zyprexa and I could show you the chemical relationship and then the action to the nervous system and then discuss a way out.
> > Lou
> > To see this video,
> > A. Bring up google
> > B. Type in:
> > [youtube,Xanax (anxiolytic addiction and withdrawal)]
> > You will see a picture of a lady and the video is 7 min and up loaded by psychtruth
> >
> >
> > Friends,
> If you are considering being a discussant in this thread or parallel threads, I am requesting that you view the following video. (I am not a member of the group that has produced the video, yet I find no fault in their production.)
> Lou
> To view this video,
> A. bring up google
> B. Type in:
> [youtube, Making, The Untold Story of Psychotropic Drugging Pt 8]
> you will see a picture and the video is 10 min long posted on Jan 10,2009
>
Friends,
For those considering taking Zyprexa,or having a child take it, I am requesting that you view the following video.
Lou
You can seethis video by:
A. pull up google
B, key in:[Fox news, zyprexa]
you will see a picture of a man and it says:
Fox...Douglas Kennedy...Jan 16, 2009
Posted by Huxley on September 12, 2010, at 20:25:08
In reply to Re: ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by morgan miller on September 12, 2010, at 12:16:42
> > Would switching to another AP help? Something like Abilify help?
> >
>
> Do you really want to take another AP? I don't think Abilify would be a good replacement for Zyprexa.
>
> Why did you want to get off Zyprexa?
>
> What other medications have you tried?
>
> If I were you I would start trying some supplements to ease the withdrawals a bit. Some of these supplements are things you may want to take for the rest of your life. Fish oil is one that comes to mind. Do you take fish oil? Others are Holy Basil by New Chapter's, Magnesium, and Glycine.No, hell no. I want off all my meds or at least as little as possible. Zyprexa is the on I really want to get off. I am on pristiq, lactimal and zyprexa.
A couple of years ago I was on effexor and got switched to prozac. It was pretty much the same as CT (cold turkey). I got horrible withdrawals (some people get really bad withdrawals from ssri/ssnri) and for these withdrawals got medicated with Zyprexa and then for the side effects of Zyprexa I got medicated with Lactimal and then for the side effects of lactimal I got medicated with some stimulant.
Case in point, 2-3 years ago I was a reasonably happy stable person who wanted some relief from social anxiety. And since been drugged with a coctail of what I call poison, I am far worse of that I ever was. I have no positive feelings, no joy no aspirations, suicidal feelings (never had them before zyprexa) and a host of physical problems which I am sure come from zyprexa.
If there was a drug that made it easier to get off the Zyprexa then I would take it because I cant do it by myself and expect to carry on with my every day life.
I have heard people mention benzos to get off Zyprexa but I dont want to get addicted to them. I read of one person who had success with Trazodone but then I read of others who had horrible time with Trazodone. One drug I see popping up alot to help is VISTARIL. Does anyone know anything about that?
I am really against adding new drugs but If I could add one that would ease the withdrawal and then get rid of it I would look at it.
I load up on fish oil every day and find it helps alot.
What do these other supplements you mention do?
Holy Basil by New Chapter's, Magnesium, and Glycine ?
Posted by morgan miller on September 12, 2010, at 21:42:35
In reply to Re: ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by Huxley on September 12, 2010, at 20:25:08
> What do these other supplements you mention do?
Holy Basil by New Chapter's, Magnesium, and Glycine ?The all just help with stress and anxiety. Magnesium can be helpful during the day and at night. Glycine is good for sleep. Holy Basil is good for calming the mind and lowering cortisol, it can be used day or night.
Posted by morgan miller on September 15, 2010, at 15:21:01
In reply to Re: ZYPREXA withdrawal, posted by Huxley on September 12, 2010, at 20:25:08
Huxley, how are you doing?
Morgan
Posted by Huxley on September 16, 2010, at 19:19:04
In reply to Re: ZYPREXA withdrawal » Huxley, posted by morgan miller on September 15, 2010, at 15:21:01
for anyone looking to get of Zyprexa or experience with getting of Zyprexa I have created a forum.
www.zyprexawithdrawal.com/forum
This is the end of the thread.
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