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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by morgan miller on August 2, 2010, at 23:08:39
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds » morgan miller, posted by Maxime on August 1, 2010, at 22:14:27
I was just thinking of psychodynamic therapy with a really good empathetic and compassionate therapist because it may help with getting to the root of why you have an eating disorder. I'm sure a therapist that specializes in eating disorders will addresses this.
Hope you get through the list fairly fast!
Posted by morgan miller on August 2, 2010, at 23:15:51
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 2, 2010, at 4:01:35
> Well just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I ate a perfectly normal diet (1500-2000 calories a day). Exercised more than is usual (3 one-mile swims, 4 5-mile walks), went on AAPs and gained 2-3 pounds per week. Not water. Fat. One week on zyprexa, I gained 5 pounds. These medications are notorious for messing up basic metabolism, so that the calories in-calories out equations don't work anymore. Lithium and Nardil have similar reputations. So save the lectures about exercise and blueberries. People get fat on these drugs through absolutely no fault of their own.
This is true to some extent and I understand your frustration. Still, taking all the right measures is better than doing nothing. Maybe you would have gained more weight had you not been doing all of those things. Also, moderate to intense pulsatile bursts of exercise(interval training is one example) will have a much greater impact on metabolism than slow to moderate paced cardiovascular exercise. Plus, if you are not weight training and doing moderate to intense cardiovascular exercise, you won't get the same results as you would if you were just doing cardiovascular exercise.
Posted by morgan miller on August 2, 2010, at 23:21:19
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds » emmanuel98, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 15:18:54
>I have gained 3 pounds since Friday night on Lithium with an average amout of calories between 250 - 500 a day.
Restricting your calories like this will just make things worse. Lithium will do more damage to your metabolism if you are not eating properly. I understand this may be very difficult for you to grasp given your eating disorder. Not only is it bad to restrict calories to this extent, but you are likely missing out on the types of foods that are beneficial for weight management. I'm sorry your having such a difficult time right now. Hopefully you will get through that list sooner than later and a therapist will be able to help you.
Posted by overtheedge on August 2, 2010, at 23:42:42
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by morgan miller on August 2, 2010, at 23:21:19
Hi, Just wanted to give my opinion.
i also suffer from anorexia. but what i find is that i will not take a med if it will put weight on, just not worth it, there always is a better alternative.
right now i am on pristiq and abilify and have lost weight.
been on zoloft, lithium, none of them put weight on or not much that i could not control.
i do find the pristiq does give me energy, which i so despretely needed.
and i hear what you are saying about a messed up metobalism..
good luck
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 1:39:15
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by overtheedge on August 2, 2010, at 23:42:42
I will not take a med if it puts weight on. I gained enough from my various trials of AAPs. I completely undertand this. I also undereat -- about 800 cals per day -- and have ramped up my exercise, but I still strggle to get the weight off. The body resists weight loss. It is a known fact that trips up dieters all the time. I am so tired of people saying, try this diet or try interval training. The basic metabolic equation is that if you expend more calories than you eat, you shold lose weight. That has not been my experience at all and i am quite discilpined.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 3:14:53
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 1:39:15
> I will not take a med if it puts weight on. I gained enough from my various trials of AAPs. I completely undertand this. I also undereat -- about 800 cals per day -- and have ramped up my exercise, but I still strggle to get the weight off. The body resists weight loss. It is a known fact that trips up dieters all the time. I am so tired of people saying, try this diet or try interval training. The basic metabolic equation is that if you expend more calories than you eat, you shold lose weight. That has not been my experience at all and i am quite discilpined.
Unfortunately, it's not always that simple. You can still up your caloric intake and easily burn enough calories to possibly manage your weight. What I am saying is that you CAN and SHOULD and WILL expend more calories than you take in even if you double the amount of calories you are currently taking in. People practicing healthy calorie restriction diets are taking in more calories than you are daily, probably around 1200 calories. 1200 calories is considered a calorie restriction diet, what you are doing is just plain unhealthy and is screwing up your metabolism, making it harder for you to lose the weight. With that low of a daily caloric intake, it is highly unlikely that you are getting all the nutrients you need for your brain and body to have a chance at working properly. I'm sorry for sounding harsh but you are thinking about this too simply. I also think your eating disorder and the psychological components behind it are negatively impacting the way you want to believe in what is good and what is bad.
Have you tried eating 1200 to 1800 hundred calories a day, splitting them up into 4 or 5 meals, and including the right foods with the right balance of protein and complex carbs? Have you tried combining weight training with intense cardiovascular exercise? Do you eat a meal withing 30 minutes after exercise so you quickly metabolize the meal and keep your metabolism going at a faster rate? If you haven't tried all of these things, I don't think you have the right to say you are sick of all of the suggestions.
Finding a very good therapist, some group therapy, and a nutritionist(if you can afford one, if not just do some research) should be a priority. Really the therapy and some support you can hopefully get from friends and family are the two things that are really going to help get you where you need to be in the long run. Right now try your best to dig deep for some will power and energy. I realize this is incredibly difficult if you are suffering from depression.
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 3:57:31
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 3:14:53
I wonder though. Are you overweight? Have you ever gained 40 pounds from psych meds then tried to lose them? I tried a diet where I varied my calories from 1000 to 1200 to 1500 a day, so as not to go into fasting metabolism. Didn't lose a pound. I lifted weights for years, though now I am so fat I'm embarassed to lift weights with all the mirrors in the rooms. I swim 3-4 times a week and interval train. No go. Are you a middle-aged woman? Weight loss gets more and more difficult when you are.
This si a problem for me because I have arthritis in one knee that is made much worse by the weight. Also, parnate is not holding me, but I refust to accept this since the alternative, nardil, almost always causes weight gain and I will never take a med again that cause weight gain. I tried all the AAPs and they all worked for me (except geodon) and they all made me gain weight at frighening rates -- risperdal, 15 pounds in one month. Zyprexa -- 15 pounds in three weeks. Abilify -- 10-12 pounds a month and this was so affective that i tried it for months, with cytomel, metformin, alli.
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 4:03:42
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 3:14:53
One more thing that I have hated about gaining weight Everone's an expert. First, there's the assumption that I have bad eating habits, which I don't. Then theres the well-meaning but ignorant suggestions. One woman told me I shouldn't swim because swimming didn't cause you to burn calories, but running did. (I think she was thiking about bone loss. Not that it matterw. I can't tn on my arthritic knee unless I lose more weight). One person told me I shouldn't eat bananas, since they were high in fat (I think she was thinking about the atkins diet). And so on. It gets tiring
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 4:58:28
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 4:03:42
I hear ya, you definitely have some things going on that are making managing your weight very difficult. Sorry, I think I got a little frustrated with your earlier post, as I'm sure you did with mine.
I guess all you can do is keep trying and hope that some treatment/treatments will help you feel better without effecting weight gain and metabolism too much. I know, it seems like it's impossible until newer better medications are available.
So I guess metformin didn't help huh. Were you taking metformin, cytomel, and alli at the same time. If you were, then wow, that sucks that they didn't help.
I know it must be frustrating having people that don't know what they are talking about tell you what you should and should not do. I'm sure it's still frustrating when someone does know what they are talking about gives you advice.
You say you do eat well right now but didn't you say you only eat 800 calories a day, right? I really do think asking your doctor or a good nutritionist what they think would be helpful. I don't see how your brain and body could be getting everything they need on such a low daily caloric intake.
What are all the meds you are on now? Parnate and what else? Sorry I'm just curious.
Well all I can say is try hard to not give up, there is hope, for you, and Maxime.
I have gained up to 35 pounds at one point a few years ago after being on Zyprexa and Depakote. So I can empathize and relate to what you two are experiencing to a degree.
Like I said, hang in there and try not to give up hope!
Morgan
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 5:24:37
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 3:57:31
Weighed myself this morning and I have gained 2 more pounds. That is 5 total and I still have to make it until Friday. :( I don't know I manage to gain weight when I eat less than 500 pounds a day. :( This is not helping my suicidal thoughts.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 5:28:26
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 5:24:37
Forgot to say that if my pdoc insists I stay on Lithium I will start taking some Ephedra. It has worked in the past, so it should work again. Actually even if I don't have to stay on the Lithium I will hunt down some Ephedra. I know that I shouldn't take it with the Parnate, but I have in the past and I suffered no ill effects.
I really wish that I could purge. It would solve my problems. But I am unable to purge. Lord knows I have tried.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 10:12:57
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 3:57:31
I know your message was for Morgan, but I just wanted to say that I have gained so much weight from meds. I gained 40 pounds from Seroquel. They were slowly coming off me and then I had the Lithium which added a good 20-30 pounds. And it seems like every time I gain weight, I go about 15 pounds over my highest weight ever. So I kept on having a different highest weight number. :(
It bad enough to have BP type 2, but adding weight gain on it is just insult to injury.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 10:15:19
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 3:57:31
Emmanuel, how did the Metformin work? Did it help at all?
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 12:07:22
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 5:28:26
> Forgot to say that if my pdoc insists I stay on Lithium I will start taking some Ephedra. It has worked in the past, so it should work again. Actually even if I don't have to stay on the Lithium I will hunt down some Ephedra. I know that I shouldn't take it with the Parnate, but I have in the past and I suffered no ill effects.
>
> I really wish that I could purge. It would solve my problems. But I am unable to purge. Lord knows I have tried.If you take ephedra, take a good all natural ma huang.
I guess you still don't believe that eating more, getting more calories, eating several meals a day, and eating the right foods could help not just medications work better but with weight loss as well.
I'm really sorry you are feeling so bad. I do hope you find some help very soon.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 17:35:35
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 12:07:22
> > Forgot to say that if my pdoc insists I stay on Lithium I will start taking some Ephedra. It > If you take ephedra, take a good all natural ma huang.
>
> I guess you still don't believe that eating more, getting more calories, eating several meals a day, and eating the right foods could help not just medications work better but with weight loss as well.
>I do believe you about eating more etc. But there is a constant voice in my head that tells me that I am worthless and that I don't deserve food. It's really hard.
> I'm really sorry you are feeling so bad. I do hope you find some help very soon.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 18:01:25
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 17:35:35
I understand..Man that really really sucks. I do hope you get someone to help you soon. I believe there are counseling services out there that are free. I really think the best thing for you right now is too seek out some free counseling, maybe offered by the state or county. I have a friend that did this for a while.
Here is a supplement that has been praised by some people over at Mind and Muscle for it's ability to assist in weight loss without any changes in diet. Not sure if you can afford it right now, but if you can, it may help.
At this point you might as well get your hands on some mu huang. Like I said, I would get pure mu huang and not ephedrine. Maybe you planned on this already. Mu huang/Ephedra may actually give you more energy and boost your mood.
Maybe to could do Mu huang and LeanXtreme. I think both would be perfectly safe for a while at least until you get better and start liking and hopefully loving yourself.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 18:37:20
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 17:35:35
OMG, I am really retaining water. I can't see my ankles anymore, and my hands look like belong to Shrek (well, they aren't green). I've been trying to drink as much water as possible because I know that it is what to do while on Lithium.
I am so uncomfortable. I am having trouble bending my legs.
I don't need this sh*t.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 19:12:41
In reply to Can you say WATER RETENTION?, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 18:37:20
That really sucks lithium is having this effect on you. I'm sure you will be off lithium in a week unless a miracle happen. Doubt it will.
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 19:18:28
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds » emmanuel98, posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 4:58:28
I take perphenazine, 12mg, parnate, 40mg and lamictal 200mg. I also take 2mg lorazapem for parnate insomnia. None of these cause weight gain. I have been dieting and exercising like crazy, since I have the summer off, and have lost 14 pounds.
> What are all the meds you are on now? Parnate and what else? Sorry I'm just curious.
>
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 19:21:20
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds » emmanuel98, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 10:15:19
Metformin didn't help me but it does help some people. OTOH, not everyone is as sensitive to the metabolic effects of these drugs. I would avoid ephedra. It causes heart problems. Try to get off all weight-gaining drugs and exercise like crazy. That's what I'm trying to do.
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 19:23:35
In reply to Can you say WATER RETENTION?, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 18:37:20
Remember that water retention doesn't cause permanent weight gain. You can take a diuretic and get rid of the water.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 19:30:40
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 19:18:28
> I take perphenazine, 12mg, parnate, 40mg and lamictal 200mg. I also take 2mg lorazapem for parnate insomnia. None of these cause weight gain. I have been dieting and exercising like crazy, since I have the summer off, and have lost 14 pounds.
>
> > What are all the meds you are on now? Parnate and what else? Sorry I'm just curious.
> >
>
That's great, hope you continue progress towards healthy weight.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 19:36:09
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 19:21:20
> Metformin didn't help me but it does help some people. OTOH, not everyone is as sensitive to the metabolic effects of these drugs. I would avoid ephedra. It causes heart problems. Try to get off all weight-gaining drugs and exercise like crazy. That's what I'm trying to do.
I don't think a little ephedra will hurt in the short run. I've actually read reports of it improving mood, so it may assist with more than just weight loss. Yes, you do need to air on the side of caution when taking Ephedra/Mu huang. In the past I would said the same thing you did. But, after doing some research, I found that Ma Huang can be very safe, helpful and effective for several ailments if used responsibly.
I agree that getting off all drugs that can cause weight gain and when feeling better, eating right and exercising properly should help with weight loss and will eventually improve mental health.
Posted by Phillipa on August 3, 2010, at 20:23:48
In reply to Can you say WATER RETENTION?, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 18:37:20
Maxie vitamin B6 can help with water retention. But if you're swelling this badly you seriously need to call the doc. Something isn't right? Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on August 4, 2010, at 17:42:48
In reply to Re: Can you say WATER RETENTION? » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on August 3, 2010, at 20:23:48
Thanks Phillipa
I took some B6 with some other B vitamins (since they all work together) and I noticed a difference. My feet and hands are still swollen though.
I emailed my pdoc to let him know and he thinks we should reduce the Lithium to 150 mg from 300 mg. I responded by saying that I would really like to take Adderall. We shall see.
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