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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tepi on April 23, 2009, at 22:23:30
Does somebody knows how much times its needed to
reach the Max ihhibition of the MAO using Nardil or Parnate or any other MAOI.... 4 weeks ? 8 weeks ?
Im planning things for my life...Thank you Group
Posted by SLS on April 23, 2009, at 22:38:29
In reply to How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by tepi on April 23, 2009, at 22:23:30
>
> Does somebody knows how much times its needed to
> reach the Max ihhibition of the MAO using Nardil or Parnate or any other MAOI.... 4 weeks ? 8 weeks ?
> Im planning things for my life...
>
> Thank you GroupWild guess - 10-14 days at a steady dosage?
Definitely not 4-8 weeks.
After you reach the percentage of inhibition that is right for you, you need to expect to remain there for 3 weeks to see some improvement. This may represent the time necessary for the compensatory changes that occur in receptor binding. There is approximately a 2 week turnover in receptors, so one might suspect changes in receptor numbers to be involved in the antidepressant response, and why that response is latent to the initial drug exposure.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2009, at 0:27:37
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition? » tepi, posted by SLS on April 23, 2009, at 22:38:29
Tepi back to nardil? Best of luck to you and keep us posted. Love Phillipa
Posted by shasling on April 24, 2009, at 0:55:24
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2009, at 0:27:37
> Tepi back to nardil? Best of luck to you and keep us posted. Love Phillipa
Really now,whats the point of this post.Youre not answering the question,or providing a shred of help.
You just repeated what was said,what a waste of energy,almost all your posts are like this,personaly id like to see you stick to luvox posts.
Posted by shasling on April 24, 2009, at 1:03:01
In reply to How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by tepi on April 23, 2009, at 22:23:30
>
> Does somebody knows how much times its needed to
> reach the Max ihhibition of the MAO using Nardil or Parnate or any other MAOI.... 4 weeks ? 8 weeks ?
> Im planning things for my life...
>
> Thank you GroupHeres a lil info,acording to this,nardil hits 90 percant inhibitation in approx 5 weeks.
Posted by garnet71 on April 24, 2009, at 2:13:05
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by shasling on April 24, 2009, at 0:55:24
That was mean. While Phillipa's posts may seem a waste of energy to you, what do you think about hateful posts such as the one you wrote? If something is bothering you Shasling, I, and perhaps others would be willing to talk about it and see if we could help you out. If you need to vent, instead of taking it out on others by saying negative things--why not start a venting post of your own? It might be that something in Phillipas writing style triggers you, or that in some way you relate to Phillipa--a way that reminds you of yourself. Sometimes the things that make us angry and annoy us teach us about ourselves. I do understand.
Some people write short posts, some long. Some are medically informed, some are not. Some are mushy and give hugs, others just straight to the point. I think there's utility in all positive posts--every word spoken by each individual affects the outcome of the universe, as in manifestations of energy.
At least Phillipa is thinking of people, maybe that she lets them know is her way of showing support?
Posted by desolationrower on April 24, 2009, at 3:06:18
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition? » shasling, posted by garnet71 on April 24, 2009, at 2:13:05
you could have all of your MAO gone in a few hours if you took a big enough dose.
-d/r
Posted by bleauberry on April 24, 2009, at 5:09:09
In reply to How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by tepi on April 23, 2009, at 22:23:30
I have no idea, but...
I am very sensitive...
On my first dose of Parnate at just 5mg, and in two followup tests, I felt the stimulant part of it immediately. No more doses after that. By the third day, no doubt the stimulant action was long gone and the drug was nearly non-existent. But, I strongly felt the MAO inhibition. By day 3, mood was improving, energy improving, appetite down, sleep disturbed. I know what all the neurotransmitters feel like. To me it felt like 2 parts serotonin, 2 parts dopamine, 1 part norepinephrine.
From what I could "feel", the MAO inhibition lasted about 5 to 8 days. And from that one tiny dose, I'm guessing the inhibition was probably only 5%, 10%? Low. But to me, strong.
I think it is important for everyone to search for their own therapeutic target, make judgements along the way in slow titration, and not have a preconceived notion of what the right dose is. Because quite frankly, no one knows.
Posted by SLS on April 24, 2009, at 6:18:16
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by shasling on April 24, 2009, at 1:03:01
Hi Shasling.
At the moment, I am still of the opinion that it takes far less than 4-8 weeks to reach an equilibrium of MAO inhibition at a given dosage. I will here try to defend my position.
The 4-5 weeks in the article seems to include the time it takes to titrate to the therapeutic dose that produces a clinical improvement. I say this because they didn't indicate otherwise. Furthermore, they used clinical response as their gauge of MAO inhibition such that it was at this point that they decided to assay blood MAO activity. It usually takes a minimum of 2 weeks to see results from the time you reach a therapeutic level (Which could be 3-4 weeks). In consideration of these two factors, I would say that it is not necessary to wait so long to reach 85% platelet MAO inhibition. It took me only two weeks according to the MAO blood test I had taken. Granted, this was over 20 years ago, so I don't know how well that reflects the assay results they reported in the study.
- Scott
Posted by garnet71 on April 24, 2009, at 7:04:55
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by desolationrower on April 24, 2009, at 3:06:18
It seems that Dr. Bob's prick-o-centrism is becoming contagious.
Posted by Zana on April 24, 2009, at 16:11:48
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by garnet71 on April 24, 2009, at 7:04:55
I really apprechiated your defence of Phillipa but I have no idea what your second post means. Please explain.
Zana
Posted by garnet71 on April 24, 2009, at 18:42:51
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by Zana on April 24, 2009, at 16:11:48
Oh never mind Zana.
Whenever I see someone w/o bad intentions with the posssibility of being hurt, I sort of come out of nowhere and become defensive...lol. Of course I have my own issues that pertain to my reactions. I don't have the same reaction when someone has perceived bad intentions.
Aside from internet forums, it translates to real life-like when people sit there and do nothing while someone is being picked on. I'll always be the first to stand up for them. Unless I think someone is a sociopath I get kinda scared...And children and animals....I can really sense the hurt and fear in that person, empathisize. I'm generally a laid back person, but can get aggressive and intimidating in real life situations-especailly when people in authority are abusing someone, especially someone weak and vulnerable. I've done this in work settings, where a boss takes out their frustration on a vulnerable employee. However, I think I end up being respected more for that behavior in those situations, bizarre.
It triggers me. Probably because I was abused by people in authority several times. Like one time I was sexually molested/abused by a general practictioner MD at one of those cheap med clinics-when I was 15--the general practitioner pretended to be a gynecologist. I knew something wasn't right, and told my mother about it. She did nothing. So it was to get birth control pills, and I then went to a real gynecologist and saw the difference and put 2 and 2 together...the MD was no 'gynecologist'. My mother was in denial her whole life I think. I wish I had pressed charges against the guy. Well, there's lots more situations and worse than that.
I think the reaction is a lot healthier than the alternative, I can think of worse things that could have happened to me as a result. Instead, I became stronger. This feelings also influenced me to join the military, which was another positive outcome.
While I care, it is also about my own issues. No big deal. It's all good.
Sorry Shasling if I overreacted to your post. Phillipa is having a rough time right now, and her husband isn't being supportive, and I didn't like seeing her get hurt.
Posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2009, at 20:17:57
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition? » Zana, posted by garnet71 on April 24, 2009, at 18:42:51
Garnet and I had no idea what happened to you so sorry. Tepi and I are long time friends. So yes I always try to support him. Love Phillipa
Posted by tepi on April 25, 2009, at 18:48:03
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition? » tepi, posted by SLS on April 23, 2009, at 22:38:29
>
> Wild guess - 10-14 days at a steady dosage?
>
> Definitely not 4-8 weeks.
>
> After you reach the percentage of inhibition that is right for you, you need to expect to remain there for 3 weeks to see some improvement. This may represent the time necessary for the compensatory changes that occur in receptor binding. There is approximately a 2 week turnover in receptors, so one might suspect changes in receptor numbers to be involved in the antidepressant response, and why that response is latent to the initial drug exposure.
>
>
> - Scott
Scoot do you think that using higher dosages per day can make this time a little shorter?
Posted by tepi on April 25, 2009, at 18:53:27
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by desolationrower on April 24, 2009, at 3:06:18
> you could have all of your MAO gone in a few hours if you took a big enough dose.
>
> -d/rHi dr
what do you mean with a big dose ? are these between the ranges a human can take with no risk ? or it was just a comment
Posted by tepi on April 25, 2009, at 18:56:34
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition? » garnet71, posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2009, at 20:17:57
> Garnet and I had no idea what happened to you so sorry. Tepi and I are long time friends. So yes I always try to support him. Love Phillipa
You are rigth Phillipa
Thank you for your support
Posted by SLS on April 25, 2009, at 19:09:22
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition? » SLS, posted by tepi on April 25, 2009, at 18:48:03
>
> >
> > Wild guess - 10-14 days at a steady dosage?
> >
> > Definitely not 4-8 weeks.
> >
> > After you reach the percentage of inhibition that is right for you, you need to expect to remain there for 3 weeks to see some improvement. This may represent the time necessary for the compensatory changes that occur in receptor binding. There is approximately a 2 week turnover in receptors, so one might suspect changes in receptor numbers to be involved in the antidepressant response, and why that response is latent to the initial drug exposure.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
>
> Scoot do you think that using higher dosages per day can make this time a little shorter?
Yes.Some doctors swear that with some of their patients, they had to go higher in dosage to obtain adequate MAO inhibition, whereupon they were able to reduce the dosage to maintain a treatment response. The only question I have is: What's the rush? I don't know how safe it is for Parnate in particular to use a loading dose strategy. Doing so might precipitate a hypertensive reaction unnecessarily. My recommendation is to remain alive and titrate more gradually.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on April 25, 2009, at 19:24:57
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition? » tepi, posted by SLS on April 25, 2009, at 19:09:22
> The only question I have is: What's the rush?
I thought I should say that I do understand the rush to want to end the pain and frustration of depression as soon as possible so that you can move forward in life. Unfortunately, with affective illness, we are limited to treatments that take weeks to see benefit from. Hopefully, this will change. Until then, you and I must try to remain patient with treatment and tolerant of pain. You have been doing a good job at both. The most that anyone can ask of us is that we use all of what little God gives us to work with.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2009, at 21:21:05
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by SLS on April 25, 2009, at 19:24:57
Scott please see Stargazer's thread also. Pretty please? Love Phillipa
Posted by tepi on May 1, 2009, at 14:33:23
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by SLS on April 25, 2009, at 19:24:57
> > The only question I have is: What's the rush?
>
> I thought I should say that I do understand the rush to want to end the pain and frustration of depression as soon as possible so that you can move forward in life.>
In part Sccot My question was mainly because Im gonna do some tings that I have never done in the past . In the meantime my usual dose has always been 45mg of Nardil. Im now on 60mg and I still have things to do
Sorry If I cant explain myself well , Im so bad when I try to communicate something to people
they usually (almost all of the time) get me wrong
Unfortunately, with affective illness, we are limited to treatments that take weeks to see benefit from. Hopefully, this will change. Until then, you and I must try to remain patient with treatment and tolerant of pain. You have been doing a good job at both. The most that anyone can ask of us is that we use all of what little God gives us to work with.
>
You are very gentle Scott . Thank you
Tepi
Posted by Ron Hill on May 2, 2009, at 1:53:27
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by shasling on April 24, 2009, at 1:03:01
Posted by Ron Hill on May 2, 2009, at 2:08:29
In reply to Re: How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by SLS on April 24, 2009, at 6:18:16
Hi Scott,
Do you have access to the full-text version? If so, would you mind doing a block and copy of the article and pasting it in a reply post? I only have access to the abstract. :-(
-- Ron
600 mg/day Trileptal
200 mg/day Lamictal
250 mg/day Keppra
50 mg/day Parnate
------------------
> Hi Shasling.
>
> At the moment, I am still of the opinion that it takes far less than 4-8 weeks to reach an equilibrium of MAO inhibition at a given dosage. I will here try to defend my position.
>
> The 4-5 weeks in the article seems to include the time it takes to titrate to the therapeutic dose that produces a clinical improvement. I say this because they didn't indicate otherwise. Furthermore, they used clinical response as their gauge of MAO inhibition such that it was at this point that they decided to assay blood MAO activity. It usually takes a minimum of 2 weeks to see results from the time you reach a therapeutic level (Which could be 3-4 weeks). In consideration of these two factors, I would say that it is not necessary to wait so long to reach 85% platelet MAO inhibition. It took me only two weeks according to the MAO blood test I had taken. Granted, this was over 20 years ago, so I don't know how well that reflects the assay results they reported in the study.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by TriedEveryDrug on May 2, 2009, at 20:39:37
In reply to How much time for the MAO Inhibition?, posted by tepi on April 23, 2009, at 22:23:30
My doctor said up to 6 weeks for nardil to work.
I'm at week 3 or 4 and I'm just getting more and more depressed on it.
This is the end of the thread.
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