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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 2, 2009, at 4:43:56
just curious if anyone with OCD specifically (or any anxiety disorder really) has experimented with nootropics before? due to the suspected downregulation of ACH and dopamine systems by chronic SSRI use - and a general, persistent feeling of brain fogginess - i've been thinking of trying nootropics.
some questions:
1) i'm currently being treated for undermethylation by a doctor's programme that involves the daily administration of l-methionine, p5p, magnesium/calcium, zinc and melatonin. it's advised that undermethylators avoid folic acid and choline supplementation. i was wondering therefore whether upregulating ACH via Galantamine, Huperzine A, Ginkgo, etc. is the same as taking pure choline? because my experiments with CDP choline indeed leave me feeling worse . . .
2) is it generally advised that all OCD patients stay away from dopamine agents? or is it more of a grey-area issue, based on personal chemistry, etc. i ask because i currently have some Hydergine and Deprenyl at my disposal ..
3) as far as I'm aware, the current agents - N-Acetyl-Cysteine, Memantine, etc. - being investigated for OCD therapy act by taming a hyperactive glutamate system. i assume then that it might be best to avoid something like piracetam, which effects the glutamate system? or is that wrong?
thanks for your time,
G
Posted by myco on April 2, 2009, at 15:56:07
In reply to OCD and nootropics?, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 2, 2009, at 4:43:56
Have you experimented with the sup arginine? its a precursor of agmatine and involved in the polyamine oxidase system (i believe thats the right word)...has anxiolytic/Ad properties suggested in studies although still somewhat controversial.
N-acetyl cysteine is a great expectorant...I did notice I was happier on it but depressed somewhat the next day (dose dependant)...worked well on anxiety also it seemed (im anxiety patient)
I think mementine is a 5ht3 antagonist not sure about its role with glutamate though.
sorry not much help as of yet....still reading this topic. this sounds like a question for d/r
> just curious if anyone with OCD specifically (or any anxiety disorder really) has experimented with nootropics before? due to the suspected downregulation of ACH and dopamine systems by chronic SSRI use - and a general, persistent feeling of brain fogginess - i've been thinking of trying nootropics.
>
> some questions:
>
> 1) i'm currently being treated for undermethylation by a doctor's programme that involves the daily administration of l-methionine, p5p, magnesium/calcium, zinc and melatonin. it's advised that undermethylators avoid folic acid and choline supplementation. i was wondering therefore whether upregulating ACH via Galantamine, Huperzine A, Ginkgo, etc. is the same as taking pure choline? because my experiments with CDP choline indeed leave me feeling worse . . .
>
> 2) is it generally advised that all OCD patients stay away from dopamine agents? or is it more of a grey-area issue, based on personal chemistry, etc. i ask because i currently have some Hydergine and Deprenyl at my disposal ..
>
> 3) as far as I'm aware, the current agents - N-Acetyl-Cysteine, Memantine, etc. - being investigated for OCD therapy act by taming a hyperactive glutamate system. i assume then that it might be best to avoid something like piracetam, which effects the glutamate system? or is that wrong?
>
> thanks for your time,
> G
Posted by desolationrower on April 2, 2009, at 20:02:09
In reply to Re: OCD and nootropics? » g_g_g_unit, posted by myco on April 2, 2009, at 15:56:07
piracetams a mystery, who knows if it will help or worsen OCD. worth a try i suppose. I don't remember enough about either the specific glutamateric dysfunction, or what piracetam does (potentates ampa and nmda both i think????)
-d/r
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 3, 2009, at 8:11:40
In reply to Re: OCD and nootropics? » g_g_g_unit, posted by myco on April 2, 2009, at 15:56:07
> Have you experimented with the sup arginine? its a precursor of agmatine and involved in the polyamine oxidase system (i believe thats the right word)...has anxiolytic/Ad properties suggested in studies although still somewhat controversial.
>
> N-acetyl cysteine is a great expectorant...I did notice I was happier on it but depressed somewhat the next day (dose dependant)...worked well on anxiety also it seemed (im anxiety patient)
>
> I think mementine is a 5ht3 antagonist not sure about its role with glutamate though.
>
> sorry not much help as of yet....still reading this topic. this sounds like a question for d/r
>hey thanks for your reply; haven't heard of l-arginine though i'll have a look into it. do you have any links to studies conducted on it?
i was going to be trying NAC next though still trying to work out dosing. do you have any suggestions? the capsules i own are 500mg though i think that might be too much to start with. i've been looking into buying a scale that measures mg so i can do my own recapping; is there any easier way to go about this?
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 3, 2009, at 8:16:22
In reply to Re: OCD and nootropics?, posted by desolationrower on April 2, 2009, at 20:02:09
> piracetams a mystery, who knows if it will help or worsen OCD. worth a try i suppose. I don't remember enough about either the specific glutamateric dysfunction, or what piracetam does (potentates ampa and nmda both i think????)
>
> -d/ractually now that i think about it, most people report headaches on piracetam, which were relieved w/ choline supplementation... i guess making it a no-no in my situation. it's also too costly for the quality stuff, and too unpredictable in individual dosing needs for me to bother with for now
Posted by myco on April 3, 2009, at 11:28:50
In reply to Re: OCD and nootropics?, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 3, 2009, at 8:11:40
Im close to starting arginine but this damn pneumonia antibiotic has all kinds of restrictions so I have to wait 10 days. no experience as of yet with it...just sitting there taunting me.
I have full text of some studies if youd like (not available free online)...they are somewhat heavy on biochem though if you dont mind that.
For the NAC id recommend starting slow. No worries of scale...save the quid. Open the capsule and dump out half into a drink of water or dilute juice - easy on the sugars etc...best on empty stomach with multivitamin...dont add proteins and stuff if you can. speeds absorption.
I take a simple 250mg dose once when I need it for lung issues. but it makes me somewhat happy, almost mildy euphoric sometimes...like a stupid grin on my face that is reminescent of nardil beginnings.
-----------
> hey thanks for your reply; haven't heard of l-arginine though i'll have a look into it. do you have any links to studies conducted on it?
>
> i was going to be trying NAC next though still trying to work out dosing. do you have any suggestions? the capsules i own are 500mg though i think that might be too much to start with. i've been looking into buying a scale that measures mg so i can do my own recapping; is there any easier way to go about this?
>
>
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