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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by detroitpistons on March 19, 2009, at 19:23:18
I had been prescribed mirtazapine for sleep. To make a long story short, it was really causing me problems during the day. I never understood why the doctor prescribed it for sleep in the first place. I complained about it, but he didn't even offer to try something new (long story - this community health place is horrible). I went to see a different doctor today, and he gave me Restoril. I asked for something cheap because I don't have any insurance.
I didn't know much about Temazepam, but now that I'm reading about it, it scares me. I don't like the idea of taking a benzo every night for a month. I plan on going back and asking for something else next month, maybe trazodone.
Is this stuff "hardcore"? Is it possible that I'll have withdrawals if I take it for a whole month and then switch to something else?
Posted by yxibow on March 19, 2009, at 19:51:14
In reply to Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'?, posted by detroitpistons on March 19, 2009, at 19:23:18
> I had been prescribed mirtazapine for sleep. To make a long story short, it was really causing me problems during the day. I never understood why the doctor prescribed it for sleep in the first place. I complained about it, but he didn't even offer to try something new (long story - this community health place is horrible). I went to see a different doctor today, and he gave me Restoril. I asked for something cheap because I don't have any insurance.
>
> I didn't know much about Temazepam, but now that I'm reading about it, it scares me. I don't like the idea of taking a benzo every night for a month. I plan on going back and asking for something else next month, maybe trazodone.
>
> Is this stuff "hardcore"? Is it possible that I'll have withdrawals if I take it for a whole month and then switch to something else?Dalmane is stronger -- Restoril is not as potent and you may become used to it as a sleep agent. It is a metabolite of Valium.
I wouldn't say its 'too much', its just a question as to how you react to a given medication.
'too much' would be chloral hydrate, in my opinion.
Since Lunesta is patented, although it would be better than a true benzodiazepine, the cost I think is prohibitive probably without insurance.
Trazodone is an option although its fairly groggy; there's also amitryptline at 10mg and doxepin at the same dose; doxepin is a bit less strong for sleep. All the above are generic.-- Jay
Posted by SLS on March 20, 2009, at 7:05:00
In reply to Re: Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'? » detroitpistons, posted by yxibow on March 19, 2009, at 19:51:14
In what order would you place the pseudobenzodiazepines in terms of efficacy or side effects?
zolpidem (Ambien)
zaleplon (Sonata)
eszopiclone (Lunesta)Personally, I am happy to use Ativan. I have used it in the past with and without combining it with Halcion for MAOI-induced insomnia. Restoril is a good drug for sleep maintenance, but helps very little to initiate sleep. I consider both Restoril and Ativan to be "clean" in the way they affect my mood and cognition, and with very little hangover the next day. Restoril is also a clean drug, in my experience.
- Scott
Posted by detroitpistons on March 20, 2009, at 8:55:04
In reply to Re: Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'? » yxibow, posted by SLS on March 20, 2009, at 7:05:00
Scott,
What do you think about longer term use of Restoril? Unfortunately, I don't see my insomnia going away any time soon, but I don't want benzo withdrawal either....
> In what order would you place the pseudobenzodiazepines in terms of efficacy or side effects?
>
> zolpidem (Ambien)
> zaleplon (Sonata)
> eszopiclone (Lunesta)
>
> Personally, I am happy to use Ativan. I have used it in the past with and without combining it with Halcion for MAOI-induced insomnia. Restoril is a good drug for sleep maintenance, but helps very little to initiate sleep. I consider both Restoril and Ativan to be "clean" in the way they affect my mood and cognition, and with very little hangover the next day. Restoril is also a clean drug, in my experience.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by detroitpistons on March 20, 2009, at 9:13:25
In reply to Re: Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'? » detroitpistons, posted by yxibow on March 19, 2009, at 19:51:14
Well, one thing I can say for sure is that it worked very well on the first try at 15mg. Hopefully, I can keep it at 15 or 30mg.
I felt it probably a half hour after taking it. I lay down on the couch with the TV on and I felt it take over. I fell asleep, and stayed asleep. I woke up at 9:00am and felt refreshed. There's really no grogginess to speak of, but the real test will be on the days when I have school.
After taking remeron for sleep and feeling like a zombie, this is awesome. Yesterday, Remeron went a long way in helping me to screw up an exam and a lab. Remeron might end up having an impact on my overall grade...That is really frustrating.
Posted by SLS on March 20, 2009, at 9:51:44
In reply to Re: Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'? FIRST TRY, posted by detroitpistons on March 20, 2009, at 9:13:25
> Remeron might end up having an impact on my overall grade...That is really frustrating.
I can fully appreciate that. I started school recently feeling pretty good and earned A's all the way through. When I relapsed partially during the nortriptyline/desipramine crossover, my grades were much more difficult to maintain. I received a C+ on an assignment when I was feeling particularly bad. It sucks when you know that it is not you who failed a test, but a brain disorder or drug effect that produced an obstacle to performing as well as you know you can.
I wouldn't worry about Restoril withdrawal too much. It is not as bad as some of the other BZDs to discontinue. You should do okay with a gradual taper. Just remember that there might be some rebound insomnia as a symptom of withdrawal, and not necessarily a sign that you need to continue taking the drug.
- Scott
Posted by yxibow on March 20, 2009, at 19:15:02
In reply to Re: Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'? » yxibow, posted by SLS on March 20, 2009, at 7:05:00
> In what order would you place the pseudobenzodiazepines in terms of efficacy or side effects?
>
> zolpidem (Ambien)
> zaleplon (Sonata)
> eszopiclone (Lunesta)
>
> Personally, I am happy to use Ativan. I have used it in the past with and without combining it with Halcion for MAOI-induced insomnia. Restoril is a good drug for sleep maintenance, but helps very little to initiate sleep. I consider both Restoril and Ativan to be "clean" in the way they affect my mood and cognition, and with very little hangover the next day. Restoril is also a clean drug, in my experience.
Regular benzodiazepines do have a greater potential for habituation, of course they all do eventually.I would place efficacy of the above as Lunesta, Ambien, and Sonata.
Side effects -- not terribly much unless you read the FDA warning on -every- possible sleep medication that you will wake up and not remember baking a turkey roast (I know, it sounds a bit snide, there have been cases, especially in the elderly).
Lunesta for some people gives a metallic taste, which I did get, but it disappears during sleep and I don't taste it in the morning. Some people have claimed that they do taste it in the morning.
It is better for long term use.Ambien, well it seems to be a semi-placebo these days but then I have major cross pollination with Valium so I can't really take any benzodiazepine or related for sleep. However I did take it at 20mg, which is about the ceiling for it.
Sonata I might have tried in the distant past but from what I remember hearing about it, it isn't all that effective and can have some odd side effects, visual or something.
-- Jay
Posted by raisinb on March 20, 2009, at 22:28:16
In reply to Re: Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'? » SLS, posted by yxibow on March 20, 2009, at 19:15:02
Ambien worked only short-term, and not that well during that time, for me. Lunesta worked reliably for over three years. When major stress hit in the last couple of months, though, I had to add Xanax.
At night, I take 1 mg Xanax. Depending on how wound up I am, I take 3 mg Lunesta on top of that.
I do worry about habituation, but I do know that not sleeping for days on end will make me kill myself faster than any protracted weaning process.
Posted by detroitpistons on March 21, 2009, at 11:24:31
In reply to Re: Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'? FIRST TRY » detroitpistons, posted by SLS on March 20, 2009, at 9:51:44
Scott,
Any opinion on whether 30 days will be enough to cause withdrawal?
I think I'm just going to go back to trazadone...It seems like the safest thing out there, out of the sleep aids that I know about. Maybe that, or one of the tricyclics...It's too bad because I absolutely love benzos for sleep. They would be my first choice if it wasn't for the habituation/ withdrawal issues.
> > Remeron might end up having an impact on my overall grade...That is really frustrating.
>
> I can fully appreciate that. I started school recently feeling pretty good and earned A's all the way through. When I relapsed partially during the nortriptyline/desipramine crossover, my grades were much more difficult to maintain. I received a C+ on an assignment when I was feeling particularly bad. It sucks when you know that it is not you who failed a test, but a brain disorder or drug effect that produced an obstacle to performing as well as you know you can.
>
> I wouldn't worry about Restoril withdrawal too much. It is not as bad as some of the other BZDs to discontinue. You should do okay with a gradual taper. Just remember that there might be some rebound insomnia as a symptom of withdrawal, and not necessarily a sign that you need to continue taking the drug.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on March 21, 2009, at 11:43:13
In reply to Re: Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'? FIRST TRY » SLS, posted by detroitpistons on March 21, 2009, at 11:24:31
> Scott,
>
> Any opinion on whether 30 days will be enough to cause withdrawal?I wish I had more personal experience with taking a BZD for the time period you are asking about. I can't answer with certainty. However, my best guess is that 4-6 weeks of chronic use will produce a withdrawal syndrome upon abrupt discontinuation. You can try discontinuing the drug as quickly as you think you would like. If you begin to experience withdrawal symptoms, you can simply restart it and begin a taper.
- Scott
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 21, 2009, at 12:17:54
In reply to Re: Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'? FIRST TRY, posted by detroitpistons on March 20, 2009, at 9:13:25
> Well, one thing I can say for sure is that it worked very well on the first try at 15mg. Hopefully, I can keep it at 15 or 30mg.
>
> I felt it probably a half hour after taking it. I lay down on the couch with the TV on and I felt it take over. I fell asleep, and stayed asleep. I woke up at 9:00am and felt refreshed. There's really no grogginess to speak of, but the real test will be on the days when I have school.I'm sorry my response is coming somewhat late in the analysis, but I think your experience bodes very well for using Restoril.
I've been using it for over a decade, with brief interludes. I have tried every sleep drug available in Canada, many of those before I was given Restoril, and one (or two?) later on. None have given me the sleep I needed, or left me feeling restored, with the exception of temazepam. I think its brand name is quite apt, in fact.
I have been at a stable dose for the whole period, except when I tapered off for medical reasons a couple of times. One instance was to rule out any link between the benzo and some cognitive problems I was having. Another instance was to give Remeron a try. I think I may have tried Seroquel in there, somewhere. Anyway, I did a taper when I went off, and I had no side effects. My insomnia returned, but I'd have a hard time even declaring that I had a rebound phenomenon. I don't think my sleep was worse than my unmedicated baseline; it just returned to that level.
I've used other benzos here and there over time, and temazepam is nothing like those. Nothing at all like those, in my experience. I hope benzophobia doesn't influence your decision-making process.
Lar
Posted by desolationrower on March 21, 2009, at 14:37:02
In reply to Re: Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'? FIRST TRY » detroitpistons, posted by Larry Hoover on March 21, 2009, at 12:17:54
i do wish we knew more about how the various benzos work. they don't seem interchangable, and there are probably other benzo drugs possible that would have other, highly desireable effects. xanax wiht AD effect on NA, and klonopin affecting 5ht. i haven't found anything, its hard to research as there is a boatload of papers talking about halflives and things like that so the signal to noise ratio is very low.
-d/r
Posted by raisinb on March 21, 2009, at 22:28:37
In reply to Is Temazepam (Restoril) 'too much'?, posted by detroitpistons on March 19, 2009, at 19:23:18
I've heard Restoril can do that. It always sounded kind of cool to me.
Posted by yxibow on March 22, 2009, at 6:41:54
In reply to did it give you lucid dreams? » detroitpistons, posted by raisinb on March 21, 2009, at 22:28:37
> I've heard Restoril can do that. It always sounded kind of cool to me.
Remeron certainly gave me some really interesting hypnagogic phenomenons, but that was probably also mixed with my illness at the time. At least I had some fun then. I can't take it now, the adrenergic effect on me is too strong and anyhow added to Seroquel, my weight would be even more phenomenal.
Posted by raisinb on March 22, 2009, at 12:20:36
In reply to Re: did it give you lucid dreams? » raisinb, posted by yxibow on March 22, 2009, at 6:41:54
I had crazy dreams on Remeron, too--but in my case they were nightmares, so I didn't mind getting rid of them. I've never experienced anything like Remeron for gaining weight. I thought about nothing but food. The world could've been ending, and I would think, "do I still have pudding in the fridge?" I gained 8 lb in 3 weeks!
It ended up being terrible for my depression, though, so I tapered off it pretty quickly.
Posted by detroitpistons on March 22, 2009, at 14:44:58
In reply to Re: did it give you lucid dreams? » yxibow, posted by raisinb on March 22, 2009, at 12:20:36
Even taking 7.5mg or 15mg of Remeron at night as a sleep aid made me hungry....Half an hour to an hour after taking it, I would be digging through the refrigerator and kitchen closet.
> I had crazy dreams on Remeron, too--but in my case they were nightmares, so I didn't mind getting rid of them. I've never experienced anything like Remeron for gaining weight. I thought about nothing but food. The world could've been ending, and I would think, "do I still have pudding in the fridge?" I gained 8 lb in 3 weeks!
>
> It ended up being terrible for my depression, though, so I tapered off it pretty quickly.
Posted by detroitpistons on March 22, 2009, at 14:51:54
In reply to did it give you lucid dreams? » detroitpistons, posted by raisinb on March 21, 2009, at 22:28:37
I haven't noticed lucid dreams with benzos, but it seems like I get vivid dreams on almost any other sleep aids. I've only take the Restoril one night so far, and I do rememember having dreams, but I can't say they were "lucid" dreams....I'll pay attention to that during the next few nights on the Restoril.
My sister had that weird reaction to Ambien where she would be sort of half asleep and half awake and would just talk nonsense. She took it only a couple times because of that. She and her husband were freaked out. I think she did some sleepwalking, but never left the house.
> I've heard Restoril can do that. It always sounded kind of cool to me.
Posted by elanor roosevelt on March 29, 2009, at 23:35:34
In reply to Re: did it give you lucid dreams?, posted by detroitpistons on March 22, 2009, at 14:44:58
Lucid Dreaming entails being aware that you are dreaming and possibly having control of your dream.
I don't know and ADs that do that.
Some give you more elaborate dreams or very bizarre nightmares. But sadly, most just take the ability to recall dreams away.my last withdrawal from effexor was a blast.
i had nightmares every night but they were so interesting that i was sad when they stopped.remeron gave me very structured quest-like dreams during which i never succeeded in completing my quest
boring and frustrating--that s*cks
years back i had success in triggering more elaborate dreams by keeping a big bundle of dried mugwort nearby
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