![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 83. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 19:39:21
Hi guys,
I've been posting with several people on various sights that don't address this question directly. They are feeling frustrated. Looking for BEST augment strategies with Nardil, personal experience please elaborate!!
1.Such as how long on Nardil until response
2.Effect of making significant dose changes
3.How long until augment response was realized, etc.
Anything else you think useful in contributing to Nardil's effectiveness appreciated!!!! Thanks!
~Jade
Posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2008, at 0:15:06
In reply to no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION, posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 19:39:21
No personal experience but know it's good for social anxiety. I broke your rule I posted with no personal experience. But do know a lot of people here on nardil. Most love it when used to it. What are the other sites just curious. Don't have to say. Love Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on November 16, 2008, at 11:27:16
In reply to no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION, posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 19:39:21
I know some people like to combined it with nortryptaline. I don't have personal experience, but SLS does.
Posted by desolationrower on November 16, 2008, at 13:53:39
In reply to no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION, posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 19:39:21
What you augment with depends at lot on what you are diagnosed with, symptoms that the phenelzine isn't treating, what meds have or haven't worked for you, etc.
-d/r
Posted by that_guy23 on November 16, 2008, at 17:24:09
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION, posted by desolationrower on November 16, 2008, at 13:53:39
I have had it work on depression, but want moreso to have effect on social anxiety. I was backtracked when I was doing well at 75 from 4-5 weeks in, and that backtracked me.Anyway heres a list of drugs I have tried that have failed, may miss a couple:
1)effexor xr
2)paxil(generic)
3)prozac(generic)
4)zoloft(generic)
5)wellbutrin(augmented with other ssri's for sexuall SE)
6)nortriptyline
7)seroquel(with the nortriptyline)
8)remeron(helped a little with dpression gained 30lbs.
9)clonazepam(klonopin)
10)Aprasolam(xanax)
11)diazepam(valuum)
12)lorazepam(ativan)I'm pretty sure thats it
Posted by JadeKelly on November 16, 2008, at 18:46:10
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION » desolationrower, posted by that_guy23 on November 16, 2008, at 17:24:09
> I have had it work on depression, but want moreso to have effect on social anxiety. I was backtracked when I was doing well at 75 from 4-5 weeks in, and that backtracked me.Anyway heres a list of drugs I have tried that have failed, may miss a couple:
>
> 1)effexor xr
> 2)paxil(generic)
> 3)prozac(generic)
> 4)zoloft(generic)
> 5)wellbutrin(augmented with other ssri's for sexuall SE)
> 6)nortriptyline
> 7)seroquel(with the nortriptyline)
> 8)remeron(helped a little with dpression gained 30lbs.
> 9)clonazepam(klonopin)
> 10)Aprasolam(xanax)
> 11)diazepam(valuum)
> 12)lorazepam(ativan)
>
> I'm pretty sure thats itThat Guy, what I take from D/R's post and have heard same from SLS (Scott): Get list of ALL meds if you can, and reduce to list of meds that had ANY good effect on you, however small, then make list of meds that were NOT good, intolerable s/e's, anxiety, paranoia, worse depression, stuff like that. We then take the "good" list and find someone who can tell you which augment most likely will be similar, while excluding "bad" list if possible. Scott did this for years, found combo that worked for him, and is in remission now. Btw- D/R and SLS are REALLY smart.
PS-Some posts below on thread I started for you and Kenny, give it some time. Also saw thread about Nardil and Klonopin I believe near bottom of page, didn't read any of it.
Talk soon~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 17, 2008, at 14:46:20
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION » desolationrower, posted by that_guy23 on November 16, 2008, at 17:24:09
I have had it work on depression, but want moreso to have effect on social anxiety. I was backtracked when I was doing well at 75 from 4-5 weeks in, and that backtracked me.Anyway heres a list of drugs I have tried that have failed, may miss a couple:
1)effexor xr(madde me much worse)
2)paxil(generic)(helped with anxiety alittle, but couldn't handle sexual SE's)
3)prozac(generic)Mdae me very agitated shakey. very horrible!)
4)zoloft(generic) (just made anxiet worse)
5)wellbutrin(augmented with other ssri's for sexuall SE)(helpful for sex SE's)
6)nortriptyline(didn't find differnce)
7)seroquel(very horrible, don't want to try antispsychotics anymore!Paranoid.)(with the nortriptyline)
8)remeron(helped a little with dpression gained 30lbs.) Actually helped alot with depression, minorly with anxiety)dropped this drug feeling that I was just getting better on my own, But it also wasn't enough
9)clonazepam(klonopin)(Amazing at a high enough dose)
10)Aprasolam(xanax)(been a while but remember being similar to clonazepam)
11)diazepam(valuum)(sucked, Didn't get anything at 45 mg's. Even abusing over 100mg's while drinking, didn't get that bad, remember everything,BAD HANGOVER!)
12)lorazepam(ativan) Also found good at high enough doses, 10 and up)I'm pretty sure thats it
Posted by that_guy23 on November 18, 2008, at 19:49:56
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION, posted by JadeKelly on November 16, 2008, at 18:46:10
would you think that lyrica would be a good augment with my list? here's my Diagnosis:
GSAD/depression/GAD
Posted by JadeKelly on November 18, 2008, at 23:37:55
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r, posted by that_guy23 on November 18, 2008, at 19:49:56
> would you think that lyrica would be a good augment with my list? here's my Diagnosis:
>
> GSAD/depression/GADSorry that guy,
I don't know anything about Lyrica, just that some on the board take it. Don't even know what class of drugs it falls under.
Let me know what you find out, OK?
~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 19, 2008, at 5:37:45
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 18, 2008, at 23:37:55
Thats ok jade, I have a few Ideas, just getting so many different experinces, I guess thats expected. But I appretiate your help, I see my pdoc. tommorrow, and I'm tryng to cram as much info in my brain, at once. Yesterday I was researching, from like 6 am to 10 pm. So I plan on telling the doc. that i'm in pain in my neck and back from the OH, which is true, i'm extremely anxious, and that I will sign a waver for any contradicted drug. I get regular check-ups, for blood pressure or whatever and that I really need something. I was thinking lyrica if the ritalin don't go, witch it probably won't! jnew12 had allot of good to say about it. I'm gonna make one more post with a big list of augmentors, and hopefully i'll get input before tommorrow
what do you think?
Posted by JadeKelly on November 19, 2008, at 7:35:51
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 19, 2008, at 5:37:45
> Thats ok jade, I have a few Ideas, just getting so many different experinces, I guess thats expected. But I appretiate your help, I see my pdoc. tommorrow, and I'm tryng to cram as much info in my brain, at once. Yesterday I was researching, from like 6 am to 10 pm. So I plan on telling the doc. that i'm in pain in my neck and back from the OH, which is true, i'm extremely anxious, and that I will sign a waver for any contradicted drug. I get regular check-ups, for blood pressure or whatever and that I really need something. I was thinking lyrica if the ritalin don't go, witch it probably won't! jnew12 had allot of good to say about it. I'm gonna make one more post with a big list of augmentors, and hopefully i'll get input before tommorrow
>
> what do you think?Hi That guy, I think you're one dedicated soldier in the fight against depression! I read just recently that Lyrica works really well for a while, I would make your next appt. not to far off just in case you want to try another.
And go in with your research in order of which augment you want if she says no, then just go till she says Yes. That gets your foot in the door for the next one!! Job well done! No wonder you've been all over the board, haha, didn't realize your appt is tomorrow!! Btw-whats "the OH"? What happened to your neck? Be careful cause if she thinks you picked up script for narcotics your dead in the water.If you did, make sure its not contraindicated! I can't stress enough you DON'T want to mess around and end up with hypertensive crisis. Oh, REMEMBER to get antidote script like "Nifedipine" just in case. Do you have BP cuff? I can't remember. I think you do. If not, get one. I promise, it will give you peace of mind if you don't know whats happening as you add med(s).Good Luck!!! let me know what she gives you.
~Jade
>
>
PS-Have you pulled up the actual "Nardil" brand name sight? Parnate was less restrictive in that literature on some meds than PDoc thinks. Just google Nardil and look for the official sight and read the cotraindicated drug part, maybe at bottom. You may find something.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 20, 2008, at 21:17:19
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 19, 2008, at 7:35:51
Hi That Guy,
You've been all over this board, now tell us what you got! I hope PDoc was in a generous mood!
~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 21, 2008, at 16:59:44
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 19, 2008, at 7:35:51
hey jade, I am dissapointed to say, that she didn't go for any augmentation for nardil. these would be, ritalin, lyrica, provigil, and neuroton. She said she has other options that would go against her process before considering augmentation with this drug. She also said what I'm looking for isn't going to help me in the long run. I practically begged, said I needed something, I would sign a waver, whatever it took, I actuall asked her what if my regular doctor prescribed me it, I know, it was stupid.
I actually just sat there and was crushed, not even an increse on benzos, silent and kept thinking how those drugs will temporaliy help, why won't she prescribe them, I'm so desperate, as I thought this a tear ran down my face. SHe spoke to me quitely and said shawn you don't have to do this she said, I could give you some nubers for oter pdocs. She said that she herself didn't take that path, and that continued cbt with your psychologist, as well as seeing me, having many options of course wil be the best route. She was making so much sense and I could understand her, and she was always easy to talk to and very good at making me feel a little better. We talked for the rest of the session, and by the end I wasn't so stuck on the augmentaions, although I kinda am. whan I left her office I was in a much better mood, which I usually am, besides the one prior appt. I told her I thought she was a good doctor and I respect that you didn't give in, and I meant i't , I felt even more sure than before the couple of sessions dealing with nardil, that now makes sense, despite that I do want other drugs, she was a very qualified psychiatrist. when I left I did ask for the other doctors, and she gave me them, and it felt knd of weird, but she said she took no affence to it. I found out through my relatives, that when I was recommended to her first, all the docs and nurses said she was one of the higest recommended pdocs. in Newfoudland. I also seen my psychologist today, and we had an amazing session, it was only the third, but I think she might be good as well.Right now I really want to stick with my reg pdoc. thinking she's right. And if I give her up and get another one, who's to say he'll give me the drugs, and he might suck. And there is one that is what they call a pill pusher, and doesn't really talk allot to you or even care, now I would get the drugs, most likely. I'm thinking that right now I should stay with the my regular, But my mind wanders in the other direction. This really sucks!! but it's gonna be a long hard road I guess, as usuall, I mean I have no relief from my SA what so ever, and my depression comes back when I keep getting stuck in this damn house, I don't no where to turn.
what do you think?
Posted by JadeKelly on November 21, 2008, at 20:25:37
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 21, 2008, at 16:59:44
Hey that guy,
Sorry to hear your dissapointment. I just posted a decent response to you, covered all points, then the da*n thing just disappeared. I could use some of that Lyrica right now myself!! Here's the really short version and I'll talk to you later more in depth, your a youngster anyway, aren't you? So your out anyway!!
Keep the PDoc
Keep the CBT therapist
What dose of what benz are you on?
Still on 75mg Nardil?
Do you have a GP?
Who first prescribed Benz?I think I know what you are feeling, and you don't want that getting out of control before your next sessions. Write me back when your around if you want, I had a couple ideas.
~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 22, 2008, at 7:06:35
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 21, 2008, at 20:25:37
> Hey that guy,
>
> Sorry to hear your dissapointment. I just posted a decent response to you, covered all points, then the da*n thing just disappeared. I could use some of that Lyrica right now myself!! Here's the really short version and I'll talk to you later more in depth, your a youngster anyway, aren't you? So your out anyway!!
>
> Keep the PDoc
> Keep the CBT therapist
> What dose of what benz are you on?
> Still on 75mg Nardil?
> Do you have a GP?
> Who first prescribed Benz?
>
> I think I know what you are feeling, and you don't want that getting out of control before your next sessions. Write me back when your around if you want, I had a couple ideas.
>
> ~Jadehey, whats up? what did you mean by, "your a youngster anyway, aren't you? So your out anyway!!"?? well anyway, heres the answer's to your questions:
the dose of benzo I'm on is 1 mg 3x per day.
Yes I am still on 75 mg of nardil.
no I don't really have a regular GP, they come and go in my town, so I see whoever I can.
My pdoc. is the first one to prescirbe benz.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 22, 2008, at 13:57:25
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 22, 2008, at 7:06:35
> > Hey that guy,
> >
> > Sorry to hear your dissapointment. I just posted a decent response to you, covered all points, then the da*n thing just disappeared. I could use some of that Lyrica right now myself!! Here's the really short version and I'll talk to you later more in depth, your a youngster anyway, aren't you? So your out anyway!!
> >
> > Keep the PDoc
> > Keep the CBT therapist
> > What dose of what benz are you on?
> > Still on 75mg Nardil?
> > Do you have a GP?
> > Who first prescribed Benz?
> >
> > I think I know what you are feeling, and you don't want that getting out of control before your next sessions. Write me back when your around if you want, I had a couple ideas.
> >
> > ~Jade
>
> hey, whats up? what did you mean by, "your a youngster anyway, aren't you? So your out anyway!!"?? well anyway, heres the answer's to your questions:
>
> the dose of benzo I'm on is 1 mg 3x per day.
>
> Yes I am still on 75 mg of nardil.
>
> no I don't really have a regular GP, they come and go in my town, so I see whoever I can.
>
> My pdoc. is the first one to prescirbe benz.
>Hi that guy, I thought I read a post or two of you being out with friends thats all. It was Friday night so I was assuming you may be out? What did you think I meant? Well, hope you are having good weekend, anyway.
Umm, lets see. Oh did you ask her to up to 90mg? I'd do that if you haven't. She wouldn't augment with ANYTHING? Or not with your choices? I'm thinking she wants to see where you go with CBT before she adds anything that could theoretically interfere with CBT. I get that. I just don't think she understands your feeling of desperate anxiety that needs relief YESTERDAY. I get that on occasion, but I can let it pass in an hour or four! I can't imagine it on a regular basis. How often do you feel "desperate"? What EXACTLY was her response to you seeing another PDoc, or, and maybe more importantly, a regular GP? Would that mean you couldn't see HER anymore, or that SHE just won't prescibe anything else right now? I'm on 1mg Klonopin 3x day. Which benzo Exactly are you on? Would increase/change in benz OR Parnate do it? Let me know all!
~Jade
PS-Does anyone in your family have GP you could see? Do they (family member) agree you need additional help? Might help is all.
Posted by that_guy23 on November 22, 2008, at 16:11:43
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 22, 2008, at 13:57:25
> > > Hey that guy,
> > >
> > > Sorry to hear your dissapointment. I just posted a decent response to you, covered all points, then the da*n thing just disappeared. I could use some of that Lyrica right now myself!! Here's the really short version and I'll talk to you later more in depth, your a youngster anyway, aren't you? So your out anyway!!
> > >
> > > Keep the PDoc
> > > Keep the CBT therapist
> > > What dose of what benz are you on?
> > > Still on 75mg Nardil?
> > > Do you have a GP?
> > > Who first prescribed Benz?
> > >
> > > I think I know what you are feeling, and you don't want that getting out of control before your next sessions. Write me back when your around if you want, I had a couple ideas.
> > >
> > > ~Jade
> >
> > hey, whats up? what did you mean by, "your a youngster anyway, aren't you? So your out anyway!!"?? well anyway, heres the answer's to your questions:
> >
> > the dose of benzo I'm on is 1 mg 3x per day.
> >
> > Yes I am still on 75 mg of nardil.
> >
> > no I don't really have a regular GP, they come and go in my town, so I see whoever I can.
> >
> > My pdoc. is the first one to prescirbe benz.
>
>
> >
>
> Hi that guy, I thought I read a post or two of you being out with friends thats all. It was Friday night so I was assuming you may be out? What did you think I meant? Well, hope you are having good weekend, anyway.
>
> Umm, lets see. Oh did you ask her to up to 90mg? I'd do that if you haven't. She wouldn't augment with ANYTHING? Or not with your choices? I'm thinking she wants to see where you go with CBT before she adds anything that could theoretically interfere with CBT. I get that. I just don't think she understands your feeling of desperate anxiety that needs relief YESTERDAY. I get that on occasion, but I can let it pass in an hour or four! I can't imagine it on a regular basis. How often do you feel "desperate"? What EXACTLY was her response to you seeing another PDoc, or, and maybe more importantly, a regular GP? Would that mean you couldn't see HER anymore, or that SHE just won't prescibe anything else right now? I'm on 1mg Klonopin 3x day. Which benzo Exactly are you on? Would increase/change in benz OR Parnate do it? Let me know all!
>
> ~Jade
>
> PS-Does anyone in your family have GP you could see? Do they (family member) agree you need additional help? Might help is all.Oh I just didn't understand it, maybe I'm just a little slow. I didn't ask her yet about upping to 90, I was gonna stay at 75 for a while, but I think that now I might call her to tell her I want it Upped.
She wasn't going to augment with anything. And I told her I would sign a waver, whatever it took, to get an augmentor, she said it wasn't how she did things, which, like I said, I respected her more for, but still needed the drugs, some drug, I feel terrible everyday. With severe SA, and depression, I haven't really went anywhere uless I had to, and since I qiut drinking in september almost 12 weeks, I only seen my real good friends a couple times, and talked to them on the phone.
I have alot of family support, but they are totally against drugs even prescribed, maybe because I was into hard drugs.
You are right about how she wants to see how the cbt goes, but I really don't think she is gonna add anything, she seen how desperate I needed relief, thats why part of me is saying what could be worst? going against a contradiction, that I had allot i mean allot of research showing safe studys of all the drugs i had for suggestion, even something she suggested,or having I bad it like lifes not worth living.
I mean depressed or anxious 24 hours a day but I still push myself though with music I guess my docs. playing guitar and talking with close family. One of whom has been through the same thing and went to school for six years of psychology(my cousin)but is really busy with work and her child who is very hypractive.
But I can't stop nardil, something just won't let me, I feel I have to go to like 4 months, it's been over 2 1/2, and it keeps getting harder not to stop it, to go on pretty much anything else to get a stimulant with. And it doesn't help when you have an alcohol problem, that I feel I'm beating on my own.
She said that seeing another pdoc. or getting drugs from a gp, would result in losing her.
I am also on clonazepam 1mg 3x a day, and yes an increase in that would help, but I can't get that either.
I don't think I want to switch to parnate if nardil doesn't work, unless there's was definate chance of augment. How do you find the parnate? how long have you been on it? were you on nardil? if so, hoew long, what doses?
Wow what a rant, sorry I'm just agitated now cause the last couple of days I didn' take my clonazepam, and trying to save, to get more for each day, or for something I would definately need a high dose for.
I feel completely horrible shakey, really just not with it, but the one thing I can say is I haven't touched any alcohol, which is getting harder each day. But I have to change my life around now, if I go back to my old ways, I will be on my own, no support, I would not survive!! Alcohol mainly, and drugs would take me over.
Once again sorry for the rant. I appretiate all your help so much. your awsome.
any advice on any of this would be awsome.
Thanks. talk to you again soon hopefully
Posted by desolationrower on November 22, 2008, at 18:49:18
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 22, 2008, at 16:11:43
It can be quite frustrating to not get treatment you think you need. Hope it works out.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on November 22, 2008, at 19:01:04
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 22, 2008, at 16:11:43
Hey that guy,
I've seen a rant and that wasn't even close. Perfectly fine posts. I wasn't sure what your history was, sorry you're having to fight addictions at the same time you are fighting depression. Probably hard to tell which came first as so many people self medicate before getting to a PDoc. I have seen first hand how hard this fight is. My nephew went thru it and now he lives with me. Do you think maybe a program of some kind? I really don't know how he would have beat his addictions without re-hab. Then he worked a program, he works out hard, almost every day. I mean, he just hit it from every angle. A/D's too. You sound strong. So is he. I hated watching him go thru that struggle, so much anxiety. But he did it. He filled his life with other things, does a program (AA) and made friends to hang out with that don't tempt him. This doesn't help you're immediate problem, I know that. I just wonder how much of your anxiety/depression is coming from addiction w/d? What do you think? If I'm way off, tell me. Either way, you're depressed. My nephew tried a few A/d's, some helped, but he wasn't allowed to have even benzos. He stopped all A/D's after a few months of "clean living". He's in remission now, and if he stays clean I imagine he'll stay that way. I don't see that he's at risk. He says he has nightmares now about his drug and alcohol abuse.
Did you get ANY treatment or re-hab for your addictions? The answer to that is pretty important. It could even effect which meds you take as some repair is probably warranted. Is your PDoc aware of your past? Do you take any supps? Do you work out? Believe me, I am not saying some supps, a workout, and some clean living is all I, or you need. If someone suggested that to me, which they have, I'd tell em to take a hike. The only thing thats gonna work for me, I've concluded after trying all above, is meds. Hardcore meds like Maoi's, probably with added augmentation. But thats me. I don't have the drug/alcohol thing to deal with. Get back to me, and PLEASE stop hoarding your klonopin! No wonder you feel like crap!!! You don't need that added anxiety! Let me know above answers.
Oh-Parnate. Got the initial week long great feeling you got I think on Nardil. Not sure what thats about. I'm getting much milder A/D effect than that early response. I feel especially better when I do go out. Developed bad habits while depressed, one is staying in house to much. Parnate makes me more sociable, I don't have that scared feeling I was getting. But like you, its not a total answer. I've been on for a month. So maybe more to come. Also, I haven't upped dose from original 30mg. Going to next appt. I'll let you know. I think Parnate is "speedier" than Nardil but not necessarily in a good way, especially if you have anxiety. Its not like Ritalin or things like that. Weight loss. Insomnia for couple weeks or so. I hear the difference is that Nardil has weight gain, and is more of an anti-anxiety, its also stronger A/D (Nardil is) for a lot of people. You may have delayed response due to previous "use". So giving it time is a good idea I would think. If it comes to a point where you can't take it anymore, I geuss you have the option to find another PDoc, but the augments you listed I think are going to be VERY short lived for you. I'd try an augment(s) that will keep you in long term remission.Adding a drug that has abuse potential I think would be a mistake.
Hows that for a rant :)
~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 23, 2008, at 6:33:08
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 22, 2008, at 19:01:04
hey jade, like you said I do suffer from addiction as well as anxiety and depression, and yes I was working out for 11 weeks, but recently in the last week or so I have been to depressed and anxious to do any of it, And the excercise is something I have to get back into very soon.
Unlike your nephew though I think, well pretty sure I know, that it's the opposite. My depression/anxiety is what caused the addiction in the first place, I'd just never want to come down, but thats exactly where it lead me.
The alcohol was the worst, always had to have that, I feel that I can do without the drugs, well at least til the drinking starts first.
I've been clean for 11 1/2 weeks. Would have been 16 1/2 but I had 1 relapse 5 weeks in, just before starting nardil.I haven't went to rehab, I was going to but then I realized Iv'e been clean. Also I feel like you, meds are the number 1 answer, AT least for me now to get a boost. I find it hard to do cbt when your feeling so low, but feel after a med, or meds kicked in I would keep from relapse by doing the cbt, or a rehab, or whatever. Thats where the augmentation for nardil would come in, and it wouldn't have to be the ones I suggested something else would be fine.
I do however always feel happier when I leave my psychiatrist and psychologists office, just the talking really helps me. But it never lasts more than that day.
As for the clonazepam, your right not taking them was not helping, I had to take one fisrt thing this morning, but I just felt desperate. The worst for me is the question on nardil, now bear with me on this one. I spoke about this alot but anyway just in case you didn't read it her goes.
I started the nardil at 15 mgs a day for 1 week, upped it to 45 mgs for 2 weeks, 75 for 2 weeks. At 75 I remember almost immediatly getting this euphoria, if not the first day the second day for sure. Everytime I took a pill, it was like heaven, just to be sure it wasn't the benzo's, I stopped them for 1 day, that had nothing to do with it the euphoria was probably better. But I did continue the benzo's the next day. I was so happy, finally a drug that was gonna work for me. The second week the euphoria was coming and going, but the I still felt possitive effects from the drug better attitude, motivation, and mood.
after those 2 wonderful weeks it was time to see my pdoc. again, so asked how I was doing I said great, we dcided to up the dose, alright perfect even more relief, the next thing she was writing a prescription for 105 mgs, I was a bit confused,because I did remember reading the highest dose was usually 90, but II didn't know enough about it, and I figured well that just means i'm gonna feel amazing. Big mistake, I felt an effect almost immediatly on this dose to, orthostatic hypotension. I started falling around at first, then I would get dizzy, and I started to go temporarily blind, just for like 30 secs, my ears would ring, I had to lie down At first I found it funny, and my family kinda lauphed to thinking I was stoned off the drugs. I't wasn't funny after 2 or 3 days it just got worse I could not stand up for longer than 1 min, if that. after 1 week I dropped to 90, was still horrible started feeling depressed again got to 13 days on 90 and I dropped it to 75, where I should have stayed. after the first week or so the hypotension started to fade away, but it took all the good effest with it.
So here I am now on 75 for 3 1/2 weeks, feeling dpressed and anxious as hell, and wondering about the drug, did I screw it up?
Its been almost 12 weeks on nardil, and i'm just wondering if it's time to start thinking about a different drug, or stick with the nardil, upping it to 90 soon until I feel a change. In the beginning I told myself that I would go 3-4 months on this drug and be absolutely sure if it's the one for me, especially with all the success of nardil, and it being the gold standard for SA.
What do you think? Hve you heard of drugs taking 3 to 4 months to work, or even start working? Do you think the hugh dose, was jsut a set back, or may have screwed it up. If you think I should start thinking of different options, let me know af any you know for, for my situation. My worst diagnosis to me being my SA which is pretty severe, and I think depression comes from it.
thanks for all your concern.
hope to here from you soon.
Posted by that_guy23 on November 23, 2008, at 6:44:40
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 22, 2008, at 19:01:04
> Hey that guy,
>
> I've seen a rant and that wasn't even close. Perfectly fine posts. I wasn't sure what your history was, sorry you're having to fight addictions at the same time you are fighting depression. Probably hard to tell which came first as so many people self medicate before getting to a PDoc. I have seen first hand how hard this fight is. My nephew went thru it and now he lives with me. Do you think maybe a program of some kind? I really don't know how he would have beat his addictions without re-hab. Then he worked a program, he works out hard, almost every day. I mean, he just hit it from every angle. A/D's too. You sound strong. So is he. I hated watching him go thru that struggle, so much anxiety. But he did it. He filled his life with other things, does a program (AA) and made friends to hang out with that don't tempt him. This doesn't help you're immediate problem, I know that. I just wonder how much of your anxiety/depression is coming from addiction w/d? What do you think? If I'm way off, tell me. Either way, you're depressed. My nephew tried a few A/d's, some helped, but he wasn't allowed to have even benzos. He stopped all A/D's after a few months of "clean living". He's in remission now, and if he stays clean I imagine he'll stay that way. I don't see that he's at risk. He says he has nightmares now about his drug and alcohol abuse.
>
> Did you get ANY treatment or re-hab for your addictions? The answer to that is pretty important. It could even effect which meds you take as some repair is probably warranted. Is your PDoc aware of your past? Do you take any supps? Do you work out? Believe me, I am not saying some supps, a workout, and some clean living is all I, or you need. If someone suggested that to me, which they have, I'd tell em to take a hike. The only thing thats gonna work for me, I've concluded after trying all above, is meds. Hardcore meds like Maoi's, probably with added augmentation. But thats me. I don't have the drug/alcohol thing to deal with. Get back to me, and PLEASE stop hoarding your klonopin! No wonder you feel like crap!!! You don't need that added anxiety! Let me know above answers.
>
> Oh-Parnate. Got the initial week long great feeling you got I think on Nardil. Not sure what thats about. I'm getting much milder A/D effect than that early response. I feel especially better when I do go out. Developed bad habits while depressed, one is staying in house to much. Parnate makes me more sociable, I don't have that scared feeling I was getting. But like you, its not a total answer. I've been on for a month. So maybe more to come. Also, I haven't upped dose from original 30mg. Going to next appt. I'll let you know. I think Parnate is "speedier" than Nardil but not necessarily in a good way, especially if you have anxiety. Its not like Ritalin or things like that. Weight loss. Insomnia for couple weeks or so. I hear the difference is that Nardil has weight gain, and is more of an anti-anxiety, its also stronger A/D (Nardil is) for a lot of people. You may have delayed response due to previous "use". So giving it time is a good idea I would think. If it comes to a point where you can't take it anymore, I geuss you have the option to find another PDoc, but the augments you listed I think are going to be VERY short lived for you. I'd try an augment(s) that will keep you in long term remission.Adding a drug that has abuse potential I think would be a mistake.
>
> Hows that for a rant :)
>
> ~Jade
>
>
I did not get any treatment for my addictions, just through my pdoc. My pdoc. is aware of my past. I don't take supps, as in vitamins? As I told you I did start working out immediately and that helped. Also started eating healthy, getting the right rest, so I guess that did help, and stayed away for any alcohol drug use, this made it easier.sorry, forgot these questions.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 23, 2008, at 22:47:02
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 23, 2008, at 6:33:08
> hey jade, like you said I do suffer from addiction as well as anxiety and depression, and yes I was working out for 11 weeks, but recently in the last week or so I have been to depressed and anxious to do any of it, And the excercise is something I have to get back into very soon.
I know its hard, believe me, but setting a schedule, one you can handle, will really help.
>
> Unlike your nephew though I think, well pretty sure I know, that it's the opposite. My depression/anxiety is what caused the addiction in the first place, I'd just never want to come down, but thats exactly where it lead me.I think that happens to a lot of people. Unfortunately, by the time you realize you were depressed, its worse from addiction. So be patient.
>> The alcohol was the worst, always had to have that, I feel that I can do without the drugs, well at least til the drinking starts first.
> I've been clean for 11 1/2 weeks. Would have been 16 1/2 but I had 1 relapse 5 weeks in, just before starting nardil.
Well sounds like you picked yourself up. Good for you. Thats good you don't crave illegal drugs.It does seem like you are craving a stim type med. The paradox is you have anxiety. Maybe you should try Parnate. I've heard its more stimulating than Nardil. That would be something to talk to your PDoc about. I doubt she would mind switching if Nardil isn't working.
>
> I haven't went to rehab, I was going to but then I realized Iv'e been clean. Also I feel like you, meds are the number 1 answer, AT least for me now to get a boost. I find it hard to do cbt when your feeling so low, but feel after a med, or meds kicked in I would keep from relapse by doing the cbt, or a rehab, or whatever. Thats where the augmentation for nardil would come in, and it wouldn't have to be the ones I suggested something else would be fine.Its your life, but I've seen enough to know without some kind of treatment program, you may stay clean for a long time, but its likely you'll relapse if you don't have the tools of a treatment program to go back to. Don't know your schedule, but if your taking time off, that would give you people to talk to as well. Hope you do it as soon as you can.
>
> I do however always feel happier when I leave my psychiatrist and psychologists office, just the talking really helps me. But it never lasts more than that day.Psychologist is for CBT? Do you retain some of that?
>
> As for the clonazepam, your right not taking them was not helping, I had to take one fisrt thing this morning, but I just felt desperate. The worst for me is the question on nardil, now bear with me on this one. I spoke about this alot but anyway just in case you didn't read it her goes.
>
> I started the nardil at 15 mgs a day for 1 week, upped it to 45 mgs for 2 weeks, 75 for 2 weeks. At 75 I remember almost immediatly getting this euphoria, if not the first day the second day for sure. Everytime I took a pill, it was like heaven, just to be sure it wasn't the benzo's, I stopped them for 1 day, that had nothing to do with it the euphoria was probably better. But I did continue the benzo's the next day. I was so happy, finally a drug that was gonna work for me. The second week the euphoria was coming and going, but the I still felt possitive effects from the drug better attitude, motivation, and mood.
>
> after those 2 wonderful weeks it was time to see my pdoc. again, so asked how I was doing I said great, we dcided to up the dose, alright perfect even more relief, the next thing she was writing a prescription for 105 mgs, I was a bit confused,because I did remember reading the highest dose was usually 90, but II didn't know enough about it, and I figured well that just means i'm gonna feel amazing. Big mistake, I felt an effect almost immediatly on this dose to, orthostatic hypotension. I started falling around at first, then I would get dizzy, and I started to go temporarily blind, just for like 30 secs, my ears would ring, I had to lie down At first I found it funny, and my family kinda lauphed to thinking I was stoned off the drugs. I't wasn't funny after 2 or 3 days it just got worse I could not stand up for longer than 1 min, if that. after 1 week I dropped to 90, was still horrible started feeling depressed again got to 13 days on 90 and I dropped it to 75, where I should have stayed. after the first week or so the hypotension started to fade away, but it took all the good effest with it.Actually, I've been looking into that, because I had that same week or so of feeling GREAT on both Emsam (MAOI) and Parnate, turns out, thats a result of NE & epinephrine and happens to many people in the beginning of treatment then fades. Then later comes the A/D effect. More subtle. I seriously doubt your response had ANYTHING to do with that 105 dose.
>
> So here I am now on 75 for 3 1/2 weeks, feeling dpressed and anxious as hell, and wondering about the drug, did I screw it up?NO.
>
> Its been almost 12 weeks on nardil, and i'm just wondering if it's time to start thinking about a different drug, or stick with the nardil, upping it to 90 soon until I feel a change. In the beginning I told myself that I would go 3-4 months on this drug and be absolutely sure if it's the one for me, especially with all the success of nardil, and it being the gold standard for SA.
>
> What do you think? Hve you heard of drugs taking 3 to 4 months to work, or even start working? Do you think the hugh dose, was jsut a set back, or may have screwed it up. If you think I should start thinking of different options, let me know af any you know for, for my situation. My worst diagnosis to me being my SA which is pretty severe, and I think depression comes from it.I bet its the SOCIAL part of your anxiety that makes you crave a stim component. Now it makes sense to me. If it were me, I call her Monday and up it 90mg. If that doesn't help in say, 10 days, I'd tell her you need an augment of her choosing to help with anxiety or you need to switch. Parnate maybe? You may need augment with that, also, tho. I'm about to.I'll let you know how that goes. Maybe by the time you are deciding about Parnate, I'll be able to tell you if augmenting makes the difference. I've heard for alot, it does. Again, ALL IMHO. Talk to your PDoc. I think you'll find her much more receptive if you let her choose the augment. Sounds like she knows what she's doing (other than 105!!)
>
> thanks for all your concern.
>
> hope to here from you soon.
Good luck!~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 24, 2008, at 14:36:07
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 23, 2008, at 22:47:02
hey jade,
hows it been going for you, i'd love to hear a little about your situation and how it's going.
I am so appretiative for the help. You always come through with some concern, and good input for me, I have seriously never experienced someone being so nice to someone they don't know. I think your definatly the kind of person we need more of on these boards!
Well I guess I will get to your last post. I am seeing a psychologist and just recently started cbt by the way. I keep a thought journal, for everyday, and now she wants me to start on exposures, if your familiar with that. I feel though that I find it hard for both these things, but I do keep an everyday thought journal, but have yet to use exposures. But so far it's just been the talking, and letting things out to both pdocs. And it is so easy to talk to them about everything. I have also opened up to close family and friends more so. I'ts like this time, as in tried this several times and fell back to the drink, I actually for the firts time really truly feel that I want and have to recover!
I did suggest the stims, and ritalin, at that, and in a way kind of shows you were right in both cases. I know the stims would work very well in social aspect because I did do allot of cocaine and remeber hearing how there very similar. Now this could make you wonder, did I just want to get back on drugs, or have something that I could take in low doses that would help me socially. I truly beleive that it is the latter. I know it is a similar drug, but I only wanted it to feel better not to abuse. Now in my sub-concious it could have some role, so I guess right now,the stims. wouldn't be such a good idea.
I do have a plan to call her to up my dose to 90 mgs, but she still won't augment. The last time I was there, I did ask for her suggestions on an augmentatin, but she said she wasn't going that route just yet, thats when the whole thing about me being able to get another doc. came up. So you see my predicament, lose her, and maybe get a worse pdoc. that would still not give me augmentation, Probably unlikely for both though, or stick with her on just nardil and clonazepam.
This caused me allot of distress, and still is becuase I can't see myself stopping nardil, being the gold standard for SA/SP, for at least 4 months in. So I don't know about switching to parnate yet, but maybe after nardil trial, which I hope I don't have to. That means another six weeks on nardil with just clonazepam, unless it works of course. I hope I can stck it out. Actually on wednesday I think it will be 4 weeks on 75, then I will up to 90 mg, until I see change, or decide to drop nardil.
Is there a waiting period to switch from nardil to parnate or whats the deal with that? Ehat about other AD's? Does it require a washout period? If I decide to stop taking nardil how fast can I come off of it from 90 mgs? In asking all of this I hope I'm right that I read you used to be on nardil. If so, how did it effect you? how long were you on it?
Well I guess that coers everything, I think.
hope to hear from you soon. I want to know a little about jade!
sincerly,
shawn
Posted by Vincent_Qc on November 24, 2008, at 15:35:55
In reply to no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION, posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 19:39:21
Hi mister!
For the first time, I think I see someone with the same problem I have.In the begining of 2007, after trying everythings existing in the world for depression/anxiety and social phobia, my familly doctor put me on Nardil. I was also already on 8 mg of clonazepam.
I also have in the past a drug addiction and I had also an alcool problem in the past. I think that kinds of substances abuse is common with people who do social phobia and anxiety.
What I don't know it's if you also make panic attacks??? This is why I had to stop using "street" drugs back in 1996...and it's why also I stop drinking in june 2006. I had several panic attacks when I was drunk, even if I was taking the double of the dosage of Clonazepam I had to take. I learn more later than mix alcool and an anxiolytic like Clonazepam can kill you so I feel lucky to not have more problems than this at the time.
I'm 32 yo, and I begin do to panic attacks and social phobia with agoraphobia at 19 yo. The first couple of years I was on "Paxil" and I Was seeing a psychologist at the same time. I don't think the Paxil helped me at all. After gaining a lot of weight on it, I stop it at 23yo. I had a new doctor at the time and we try a lot of things after, zoloft, effexor, celexa (it was new at the time)...I never feel any improvement of my anxiety or my social phobia with all the SSRI's or SNRI's. At 25 yo, I decide to stop everything, I was tired of just ganing weight and not improve at all, in fact I was getting worse each time I try something new. I just give up at time.
At 28yo my anxiety and social phobia return at a more high level. I never felt like this in my life before. At the same time, I was moving into a new city and beginig the university. I return to see my old family doctor and after trying a lot of others pills (topomax, lyrica, gabapentin, effexor xr, seroquel, ziprexa, risperdal, name them...I try everything)...
So in august 2005 he decide to put me on Clonazepam. It was a good ide at fisrt, but he forget to ask me if I had a drinking problem or a drug addiction now or in the past!!! Of course I had ones...So I begin taking clonazepam 0.5 mg 4 times a day. It really work well for maybe 3 months. At the same time I was also drinking a lot. It was the first time in my life I was able to going out alone and feeling very well. I was a lot more sociable with strangers and the others in general and I was not shy at all. You can belive me, I do a lot of things that i'm shy now to mention on it!!! It was not me...I was feeling like on drugs, but a good drug, very relaxing...
In the begining of 2006, the 0.5 mg/4 times a day begin to stop working. My doctor double the dose, give me 1 mg /4 times a day. I was in heaven again...but the effects only last 2 months...I had to call him again and ask for more. He double the dose again, 2 mg/4 times a day. Another time, it last only 2 months...At the end I was totally drained of all my energy. I always continu to drink in the same period, I was drunk 4 nights by week...
In june 2006, I return to see him and he decide to put me on paxil 20 mg/day and the same clonazepam dose of 8 mg day. After having a lot of panick attacks when I was drunk even passed out 1 time, I decide to stop drinking. At the same time, I begin to have recurrent migraine and headache. Since june 2006, I have a big headache that never stop, some day it's tolerable, other day it's crazy...
Anyway, I stop the paxil after 2 months because I was getting worse than before. I just continu the Clonazepam and return to school after the summer. In the begining of 2007, I was not able to going out alone or just go to the university. I remove 3 courses in my winter session and keep only 2 courses. I call back again my family doctor and I ask him for help...I was in a bad state of mind...
He put me on Nardil for the first time of my life, MOAI was the only kind of medecine I never try in the past. I begin to 30 mg/day for 1 week, increase at 45 the week after and 75 mg at week 4. I was getting a little bit better, less anxious, but nothing for my social phobia. At week 5, my doctor put me on 90 mg/day. At first it was really great, I was feeling energic and less anxious....
The bad news is that I begin to have the same hypotension problem that you get at 105 mg...Just climbing stairs was difficult. I was earing sounds in my head, seing stars and having the black view for about 30 seconds...I pass out one time also for a couple of seconds...I was totally freaked out. I call my doctor and ask if it was normal. He say no...and that I had severe hypotension. He say to stay calm and that this side effect will fade away with time. I wait like this 3 weeks but it was just getting worst.
After 2 months on Nardil I just stop it cold turkey because it was untolerable. The hypotension problem was to big for me. It take maybe one week to recover from this...
I call my doctor again and he decide to try another thing, Remeron...The only good effect I had on it was the sleep quality...I have a insomnia problem since a lot of years...I was slepping much longer...but at the same time I gain a lot of pounds, not because I was eating more, it was just like this...
At the same time, I change the Clonazepam to Diazepam, because I had a lot of cognitive problems, memory loose and others things like that from the clonazepam and it was doing nothing even at 8 mg...I just wanted to withdrawl the Clonazepam changing it with the diazepam, it's a more long acting benzo...and of course it's not as efficient than Clonazepam, I never feel anything on it. At first I was more sleepy, but that it...I'm now only on 20 mg of Valium /day...a very low dose if you compare it to Clonazepam.
Trust me, having a more high Clonazepam dose will just make you feel worst. Since you seem to have a substance abuse problem like mine, You brain will always ask for more and more...Don't forget that's a drug also and more powerfull than alcool or anything else...
I ask to have a reference paper to see a psychiatrist at the hospital to have more help. I had to wait more than 8 months before I get an appointment. The new psychiatrist give me prozac, the only one SSRI's I never try. It was crazy at hell, I was so anxious, always on the panic mood...We try also again the Zoloft at a high dose...I feel nothing on it, I just gain weight again. e put me on Effexor XR, same thing, nothing after 2 months at 300 mg...I was just getting worse and worse...At the same time, I return in the Clonazepam world...In fact, I add a prescription for all the benzos existing in the world...We try the Ativan, Serax, Librium, Xanax...The more I Was taking them and the more I was feeling worst but at the same time I was not able to stop using them. So I ended up at the hospital because of my dependance problem...
After the hospital, I do my own drug reduction cedule...I ask for the Valium again...60 mg at first and I reduce the dose to 2o mg...now i'm stable at 20 mg and I DON'T WANT to return on a more powerfull anxiolytic drug!!! NEVER AGAIN!!!
LAst week I meet a new psychiatrist, he give me 5 choices...one of them was the PArnate... He give me this, I begin at 10 mg/day...It was ok for 3 days...after I begin to freak out...too much activiting for me. I had several panic attacks...
I see the same psychiatrist this morning and I ask him to return on Nardil, since Nardil have a less activing profile than the Parnate, in fact Nardil affect the Gaba receptors...mean that it's a more powerfull anxiolytic drugs than Parnate.
My new psychiatrist say that increase too fast the Nardil dose is a big error...He put me on 15 mg/day on week one and 30 mg on week 2...and I wil stay there for maybe one month before I will get a higher dose. To avoid hypotension problem you have to understand that Nardil lower your blood pressure, adding an anxiolytic on the top of it also lower your blood pressure. The more powerfull is the anxiolytic (Clonazepam, Xanax, Ativa) and the more side effects you will have with Nardil. That the way my new doctor explain it to me.
We are all in the same boat. I mean , we all want to recover fast and see some improvements fast...That's just normal, but I think this time I understand that taking my time will be the key to my problem. He told me also that it will take 2 months maybe more to see some improve of my state.
So one thing to remember, go slow on the dose and give some time to your brain to adjust to it. Too much Nardil will just give you more hypotension problem but you will not recover more fast!!!
As an advise for you, you're an anxious person, maybe you should stay on Nardil, just for the Gaba effect of it. Parnate don't have the gaba effect and for me it was like the time I was on the Prozac, a lot anxious and nervous...With the Parnate, you will just worsing your condition. I know we are all different, but for my experience, I know that an antidepressant who make me feel more anxious just push me to increase my Valium intake...and that's not good...
Note that people who don't have a substances abuse problem, Clonazepam or others benxos can be effective all their life... But for me that's impossible because I always became addicted fast on drugs...
So I hope it will help you ;-)
I hope you will feel more well soon!!!
Best regard!!!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by JadeKelly on November 24, 2008, at 23:00:12
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 24, 2008, at 14:36:07
> hey jade,
>
> hows it been going for you, i'd love to hear a little about your situation and how it's going.hey that guy Shawn, haha
Still trying out the Parnate and will soon add augment if I can. Some are adding a smaller amount of other A/D's. I'll let you know what happens.
>
> I am so appretiative for the help. You always come through with some concern, and good input for me, I have seriously never experienced someone being so nice to someone they don't know. I think your definatly the kind of person we need more of on these boards!Thanks, glad to be of service! I have brothers, sons, nephews. Its good to have people to talk to who have seen it all already.
>
> Well I guess I will get to your last post. I am seeing a psychologist and just recently started cbt by the way. I keep a thought journal, for everyday, and now she wants me to start on exposures, if your familiar with that. I feel though that I find it hard for both these things, but I do keep an everyday thought journal, but have yet to use exposures.I think its great you're openminded enough to keep the journal and I bet the exposures will be scary. But if you've come this far, I think you can pull it off. Just don't let anything derail you. I don't know exactly what the exposures will be obviously, but just do the best you can and if something totally freaks you out, well, bail!! Weren't expecting that I geuss. Someone was talking about this on another thread (I'll try to find it tomorrow) it said pushing it too far can backfire. I'm not trying to set you up for failure, I think you can do all of them. BUT if you're asked to do something you can't, again, don't let it derail you.
But so far it's just been the talking, and letting things out to both pdocs. And it is so easy to talk to them about everything. I have also opened up to close family and friends more so. I'ts like this time, as in tried this several times and fell back to the drink, I actually for the firts time really truly feel that I want and have to recover!
Thats great! You sound better and stronger. Keep up the good work! I bet your family is proud of you. I think thats a good attitude, you didn't ask for depression, you tried to handle it, now you're getting help!
>
> I did suggest the stims, and ritalin, at that, and in a way kind of shows you were right in both cases. I know the stims would work very well in social aspect because I did do allot of cocaine and remeber hearing how there very similar. Now this could make you wonder, did I just want to get back on drugs, or have something that I could take in low doses that would help me socially. I truly beleive that it is the latter. I know it is a similar drug, but I only wanted it to feel better not to abuse. Now in my sub-concious it could have some role, so I guess right now,the stims. wouldn't be such a good idea.You could have the BEST intentions. But it would be too tempting. One really stressful day...well you know the rest. I wouldn't give up on an augment down the road, but your Doc will have one in mind I'm sure. You'll have time here, too, to see whats working for people.
>
> I do have a plan to call her to up my dose to 90 mgs, but she still won't augment. The last time I was there, I did ask for her suggestions on an augmentatin, but she said she wasn't going that route just yet, thats when the whole thing about me being able to get another doc. came up. So you see my predicament, lose her, and maybe get a worse pdoc. that would still not give me augmentation, Probably unlikely for both though, or stick with her on just nardil and clonazepam.
>
"route just yet"That says she's willing to do it, just not yet. Does she know the CB Therapist? I bet if you keep that up, and don't ask for any more stims, etc. She'll augment. She'll have to. She can't just leave you on a med thats not working. I say go up to 90 tho. I'm increasing Parnate too.
> This caused me allot of distress, and still is becuase I can't see myself stopping nardil, being the gold standard for SA/SP, for at least 4 months in.
Did she say give it 4 months, or did you set that time frame?
So I don't know about switching to parnate yet, but maybe after nardil trial, which I hope I don't have to. That means another six weeks on nardil with just clonazepam, unless it works of course. I hope I can stck it out. Actually on wednesday I think it will be 4 weeks on 75, then I will up to 90 mg, until I see change, or decide to drop nardil.
>Well, everyone says be patient on Maoi's. I wish they would hurry up also.
> Is there a waiting period to switch from nardil to parnate or whats the deal with that? Ehat about other AD's? Does it require a washout period? If I decide to stop taking nardil how fast can I come off of it from 90 mgs? In asking all of this I hope I'm right that I read you used to be on nardil. If so, how did it effect you? how long were you on it?
Yeah, 2-4 wks depending on the switch. Usually 4 weeks. Especially if not MAOI. No, I wasn't on Nardil, but I was on the Emsam patch. Another MAOI. They made it so at lowest dose no food restricts. I liked it, but had to go up in dose so went to Parnate since had restricts anyway. Whats wierd to me is that crazy good feeling that lasts a week or two. Happened to me on BOTH Maoi's. So you stick to therapy and I'll be the Guinnea Pig for augments. I believe it will be dopamine/norepinephrine kind of med. I hoping to get back some of that initial response. Maybe it will come on its own.
>
> Well I guess that coers everything, I think.
>
> hope to hear from you soon. I want to know a little about jade!Jade has an awesome family and life that she would really like to get back to, once this leach of a depression leaves me!!! I've never been depressed before this, so learning like you!!
You take care, keep talking, its helping you I can tell. Keep me posted, I'll be around.
~Jade
>
> sincerly,
> shawn
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