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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by yxibow on June 8, 2008, at 23:41:16
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by eric wagner on June 8, 2008, at 13:10:23
A number of the established medical community has viewed the "Amen Clinics" as having some questionable practices, such as SPECT scans (which are not insurance supported and typically cost over $3000), and hyperbaric oxygen treatment.
One is entitled to their own opinion, but there are two sides to the coin, as noted in Salon, which is fairly mainstream, by neurologist Dr Robert Burton:
http://www.salon.com/mwt/mind_reader/2008/05/12/daniel_amen/index.html
Posted by Molybdenum on June 9, 2008, at 3:07:59
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by yxibow on June 8, 2008, at 23:41:16
> A number of the established medical community has viewed the "Amen Clinics" as having some questionable practices, such as SPECT scans (which are not insurance supported and typically cost over $3000), and hyperbaric oxygen treatment.
>
> One is entitled to their own opinion, but there are two sides to the coin, as noted in Salon, which is fairly mainstream, by neurologist Dr Robert Burton:
>
> http://www.salon.com/mwt/mind_reader/2008/05/12/daniel_amen/index.htmlHi All,
I read the article above and then several more. There's lots on this man out there. I then forced myself to watch the first part of his infomercial.
If someone will offer up a spare deep hole, I'm willing to pledge $365 for the first truckload of wet concrete.
....*sigh*.... :(
Posted by Justherself54 on June 9, 2008, at 6:07:21
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by yxibow on June 8, 2008, at 23:41:16
Thanks for the link..the thing that popped into my head was "if it's too good to be true, it usually isn't..it's too bad public broadcasting systems are airing infomercials to their unsuspecting viewers...some of the letters after the article say it all.
Posted by eric wagner on June 9, 2008, at 9:28:57
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen » yxibow, posted by Justherself54 on June 9, 2008, at 6:07:21
> Thanks for the link..the thing that popped into my head was "if it's too good to be true, it usually isn't..it's too bad public broadcasting systems are airing infomercials to their unsuspecting viewers...some of the letters after the article say it all.
Theres no secret info he talks about
just thought it may help someone
i would have appreciated the post & include videos if i hadnt a clue where i go now
1 thing he stresses is caffienne, tobacco, & alcohol intake & the secret is excercise
Hey concrete man - how much excercise do you do
Posted by eric wagner on June 9, 2008, at 9:31:17
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by Molybdenum on June 9, 2008, at 3:07:59
> > A number of the established medical community has viewed the "Amen Clinics" as having some questionable practices, such as SPECT scans (which are not insurance supported and typically cost over $3000), and hyperbaric oxygen treatment.
> >
> > One is entitled to their own opinion, but there are two sides to the coin, as noted in Salon, which is fairly mainstream, by neurologist Dr Robert Burton:
> >
> > http://www.salon.com/mwt/mind_reader/2008/05/12/daniel_amen/index.html
>
> Hi All,
>
> I read the article above and then several more. There's lots on this man out there. I then forced myself to watch the first part of his infomercial.
>
> If someone will offer up a spare deep hole, I'm willing to pledge $365 for the first truckload of wet concrete.
>
> ....*sigh*.... :(now THAT'S the attitude
a truckload of cured concrete is quicker
Posted by bulldog2 on June 9, 2008, at 10:41:06
In reply to Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by eric wagner on June 8, 2008, at 11:03:39
> Watched Dr. Amen last night on Public Broadcasting Service
>
> Absolutely Amazing
>
> He easliy & thoroughly explains the brain w/ understandable & applicable information & his relating it to everyday life - for people like us.
>
> I learned more unbelievably useful information in the 2 hrs. I watched the show (even w/ the PBS donation sections - probably 1/2 the program), then I have in the hundreds of hours of research I've done & the multiple Psychiatrists I have been unsuccessfully seeing the past 10 years.
>
> He seems like a very compassionate, caring, & entertaining Doctor & is very, very intelligent & up on the newest technology for ADD, anxiety, depression, etc.
>
> He explains natural remedies, medication, brain scans & therapy
>
> I only wish even 1 of my Doctors actually cared as much about helping people w/ these symptoms as he does
>
> Or that 1 of his clinics were closer to NJ & more affordable
>
> The links below contain the special presentation
>
> If you know about Dr. Amen & all that he will explain, don't bother wasting your time or posting negative replies
>
> For those of you who want to try to help yourself or family members - I bet you will find this some of the most fascinating, informative, & helpful information you will find anywhere- period
>
> The special was on PBS, so I hope some of you will contact WHYY.org & provide a donation
> $90 gets his new book, $120 gets the DVD w/ added info., & $365 gets the Master Set - tons of useful stuff
>
> If it wasnt for PBS, I would have never seen this special, had a little hope in my life (currently in a bad state), & been able to find it on YouTube & post for all of you to see & hopefully help
>
> If I didn't have $0, I would have donated & got the Master Set - I have no money & close to 110K in debt
>
> Hope this provides you w/ some help, hope, &/or valuable information
>
> Eric M. Wagner
>
> Here is part 1 of the 7 videos on YouTube (probably split into 7 parts because of the maximum video length YouTube allows posters to save?):
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mudf4-ngvUk&feature=related
>
> Part 2
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6OEEK-pVhM&feature=related
>
> Part 3
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnhgPgp_u4M&feature=related
>
> Part 4
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avdNOlemoFE&feature=related
>
> Part 5
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDjo4ajl-hs&feature=related
>
> Part 6
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMg82mnsX_s&feature=related
>
> Part 7
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9g23mwCLg&feature=relatedI watched the 1 1/2 program last night and was a bit disappointed. Some good info on the different parts of the brain and their functions. He also gave good advice on diet and exercise. However the problem with mental illness goes deeper than diet and exercise. Many people exercise diligently and follow a good diet and still suffer from mental disorders.
Posted by dbc on June 9, 2008, at 14:09:44
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by bulldog2 on June 9, 2008, at 10:41:06
We all know diet and exercise are the best anti-depressants. They work great if you can leave your house and arent stuck laying in bed wanting to die.
Posted by okydoky on June 9, 2008, at 15:23:30
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by dbc on June 9, 2008, at 14:09:44
Finally!
Posted by eric wagner on June 9, 2008, at 15:24:28
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by dbc on June 9, 2008, at 14:09:44
> We all know diet and exercise are the best anti-depressants. They work great if you can leave your house and arent stuck laying in bed wanting to die.
that's how i feel
Posted by Molybdenum on June 9, 2008, at 17:30:41
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by eric wagner on June 9, 2008, at 9:28:57
>
> If someone will offer up a spare deep hole, I'm willing to pledge $365 for the first truckload of wet concrete.
>
> ....*sigh*.... :(>>now THAT'S the attitude
>>a truckload of cured concrete is quicker>>> 1 thing he stresses is caffienne, tobacco, & alcohol intake & the secret is excercise
>>> Hey concrete man - how much excercise do you doHi eric,
Look - in this board people really appreciate hearing about the experience others have gained through success, experimentation and often painful failure. It's a very supportive place. They also want to hear about new science - and I mean "science", ie an idea published in recognised journals that are subject to peer review and professional scrutiny.
There's another board here called "alternative" - maybe your post would have been digested better there.
The problem with Dr Amen is that he's so sure he's right - and in the world of brain & mind, the smartest docs & researchers out there are at best "hopefully optimistic" about the positive results they see. And they're always calling for more research to back up or refute what they've found.
Dr Amen, presented as he was with the "host" holding up the videos for sale is just a blatant advertisement. His SPECT scans are just not held in high regard at all. Do some research yourself.
If his information was put forward as "a glimmer of hope in the quest to understand AD", then it would have got a more positive response. In a fair & scientific community, he's just not entitled to make the claims he does. The evidence just isn't there to justify it.
How much exercise do I do? Hell - I don't know. More than a little, less than I should probably. Is this relevant? I don't recall attacking YOU...I don't think anybody has.
So if you posted this because you got caught up in the excitement of the "show" and maybe have some personal / family experience with AD, then we all can at least understand why you feel this way. We all want to believe that terrible diseases will disappear one-by-one in time.
Any fair person would have to say that those videos really are a well designed advertisement. So when you started suggesting that we send him money for his videos, well....kinda suggests you might even work for his organisation? And that wouldn't be well received.
So which is it - caught up in the showbiz or an employee..?
Like Jean-Luc says "Don't be afraid, we mean you no harm". ;)
And re my concrete offer, I wanted it wet - very wet, but I was thinking that he deserved to suffer a lot. Now I don't care so much. So you decide - either drop a few solid tons on him and make it quick or drown the snake-oil man. I'll leave the decision in your hands.
Take Care
Mr. M.
Posted by Molybdenum on June 10, 2008, at 6:08:17
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by eric wagner on June 9, 2008, at 15:24:28
> > We all know diet and exercise are the best anti-depressants. They work great if you can leave your house and arent stuck laying in bed wanting to die.
>
> that's how i feelEric,
do you mean that you agree about the diet & exercise or do you mean that you're stuck in bed wanting to die?
Sincerely
Mr. M.
Posted by eric wagner on June 10, 2008, at 7:15:09
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen » eric wagner, posted by Molybdenum on June 10, 2008, at 6:08:17
> > > We all know diet and exercise are the best anti-depressants. They work great if you can leave your house and arent stuck laying in bed wanting to die.
> >
> > that's how i feel
>
> Eric,
>
> do you mean that you agree about the diet & exercise or do you mean that you're stuck in bed wanting to die?
>
> Sincerely
>
> Mr. M.Mr. M
I agree w/ you 100%
I do agree w/ the diet & excercise & I am stuck in bed
I was dieting & excercising for almost 2 years w/out any meds/help, along w/ trying to help people & I wanted to hurt someone/something & was depressed - but it did help
I have done hundreds of hours of research on all facets of the disease I suffer w/ - many psychiartists, therapy, studying medical journals, reports, pharmaceutical info., patient responses, Dr. Amen's treatments & other brain imaging
I am not an employee or anyway whatsoever connected to Dr amen, whyy, etc.
I went to OCC, Rutgers University, NJIT, am a plumber by trade, work for my father (although not recently), own my own mechanical co. & custom products co.
Here's my link to check me out for verification:
http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk319/ericwagner4/I do know a little though, about the legal issues of posting a copyrighted video on YouTube or this forum w/out consent of the owner
To be honest, I do not want anyone from this forum or the owners of the program I posted upset for copyright infringement as all I tried to do was help someone possibly inform/educate/help themself
I felt if I also posted that the presentation was on PBS & that they paid him to speak in hopes of recieving donations, I'd lessen the illegal action of posting the links & the possible legal action from it - not to mention I try my best to walk on the right side of the law - as I walked the other side for many years - & paid for it
I have studied this forum & others for years, although I do not feel the need to post much, as my mental state is not at all social, & pretty much anything regarding my disease/meds. I already know or can find out
In no way shape or fashion did I imply:
-diet & excercise will change you & you dont do it enough/at all
-that there is info. in the presentation that will change your life & you are stupid for not knowing/watching/trying it
-that whatever you are doing is wrong, you're stupid, & if you watch the links I posted in chronological order, you will learn what you/your Dr. is doing wrong - because I know everything
-that Dr. Amen's info. is fact, the latest & best info. available anywhere on mental health/the brain, & you must set up an appointment at 1 of his clinics - today
-that if you decide to watch links, you must donate to the Public Broadcasting ServiceI did find interesting:
-the 3 parts of the brain he discusses, the action these 3 parts have on a person, & the tricks he discusses to deal w/ people who have deficiencies in these parts respectively
-the brain images of drug/alcohol users/addicts
-the unnoticed inhalation of organic solvents in the workplace, the resulting marital issues/brain damage resulting from the exposure, & the result after treatment in the 1 patient
-alzheimer's scan & the prevention
-natural remedies/augmentersI posted this message believing it would be helpful, informative, & possibly useful to 1/some people & my main goal was to try to help someone - I believe it is my duty & god's work to try to help someone
although my experience proves as far as my 33 years on this earth, that not too many are willing/able to due so
besides, I too find it more entertaining/enjoyable to argue, talk down to & be negative
Possibly you replying in another post will help someone
Posted by eric wagner on June 10, 2008, at 7:20:21
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen » eric wagner, posted by Molybdenum on June 9, 2008, at 17:30:41
> Look - in this board people really appreciate hearing about the experience others have gained through success, experimentation and often painful failure. It's a very supportive place. They also want to hear about new science - and I mean "science", ie an idea published in recognised journals that are subject to peer review and professional scrutiny.
OK - from now on I'll check w/ you before I post again since I guess you know what the thousands of people who frequent this forum appreciate & want to hear aboutYou must be god
Posted by bulldog2 on June 10, 2008, at 7:44:33
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by eric wagner on June 10, 2008, at 7:20:21
> > Look - in this board people really appreciate hearing about the experience others have gained through success, experimentation and often painful failure. It's a very supportive place. They also want to hear about new science - and I mean "science", ie an idea published in recognised journals that are subject to peer review and professional scrutiny.
>
>
> OK - from now on I'll check w/ you before I post again since I guess you know what the thousands of people who frequent this forum appreciate & want to hear about
>
> You must be godI think the doctors methods are more geared to those who are in sub par health mentally and physically because of poor lifestyle.Yes they can be corrected thru diet and exercise. But many have endogenous depression or other genetically inherited mental illness. I myself do not respond to diet and exercise. Have been an avid natural foods and vitamins person for years plus hiking thru the woods. Still at times have fallen in depressions despite this. Yes the doctor is right about depression being a symptom rather than a disease. This symptom has various causes. A healthy lifestyle is a good place to start but it's not a silver bullet.
There are unhealthy people in wheelchairs who can no longer move a muscle who have mastered the art of feeling joy. We could also say a spiritual life is an important component to beating depression.
Posted by okydoky on June 10, 2008, at 9:17:20
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by bulldog2 on June 10, 2008, at 7:44:33
I had some conversation with my brother, a Naturopathic Dr. Here is one and part of another of the emails he sent. I won't bore you with my agitated long response but I think it is relevant to this discussion:
"As a doctor, I see a lot of depressed people. What I observe is that most people, depressed or not, are passive in their lives. I try to motivate them to be an active participant. Of course this takes a little more than just a change in attitude. Though this is the place to start. Takes also, determination and persistence and just as importantly learning of some skills, call them coping/social/interpersonal skills. It is a bit of trial and error learning. One of the skills you might call failure acceptance though another may call it humility; trying and failing miserably many times, but accepting and learning along the way."
"So as a naturopathic doctor, I find this is maybe my most important treatment modality...to teach active participation in life. It truely makes a difference"
Posted by bulldog2 on June 10, 2008, at 12:14:30
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by okydoky on June 10, 2008, at 9:17:20
> I had some conversation with my brother, a Naturopathic Dr. Here is one and part of another of the emails he sent. I won't bore you with my agitated long response but I think it is relevant to this discussion:
>
>
>
> "As a doctor, I see a lot of depressed people. What I observe is that most people, depressed or not, are passive in their lives. I try to motivate them to be an active participant. Of course this takes a little more than just a change in attitude. Though this is the place to start. Takes also, determination and persistence and just as importantly learning of some skills, call them coping/social/interpersonal skills. It is a bit of trial and error learning. One of the skills you might call failure acceptance though another may call it humility; trying and failing miserably many times, but accepting and learning along the way."
>
> "So as a naturopathic doctor, I find this is maybe my most important treatment modality...to teach active participation in life. It truely makes a difference"Great point..If your depressed and continue to live life the same each day than nothing will change..You have to make an effort each day to accomplish something and try new things.Many of the things I try may fail but if I do nothing that is a guarantee that nothing will change.
Will start a meditation class and start work with a holistic healer. She told me up front that my journey will be long and take persistance. The journey can be the right med combo, holistic, diet and exercise but you got to keep trying new things. I think once there's a spark and you feel even a little better you will have than build up momentum to move forward.
Posted by okydoky on June 10, 2008, at 13:04:49
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by bulldog2 on June 10, 2008, at 12:14:30
I did not write the entire exchange. Mostlyhe wrote a lot more. He knows I spent many years not on medication trying different things. One year with a homeopath suggested by him. Two years with a Naturopath also suggested by him. One year in a psch hospital on no medication. Several doctors who didnt believe in allopathic medication. None of it worked.
Here is most of my response:"It is incredible that my family still makes me suicidal. I cannot continue to be the fault of my illness. It is simply not so. I have strived in every way my entire life to overcome, to live. Sometimes more successful than others. When one has a broken leg one is passive while it heals. After one has to actively participate in the rebuilding. It is the same with the brain. Just as I cannot will my diseased bladder to heal itself so I cannot will my diseased brain to either. I cannot understand why those that would know me and my experience seemingly would not be the ones to have some depth of understanding of it. While others who have no direct experience with depression themselves or in their family seem to grasp it's rape of life, "to be active in ones own life" one has to have a life.."
"I have many examples but I am afraid they fall on deaf ears. I am so worked up an hurt I cannot even begin to write with any eloquence about it all. Where is one to find motivation within when one cannot learn from failure nor gain pleasure from success. What is there to motivate?"
oky
Posted by okydoky on June 10, 2008, at 13:34:04
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by okydoky on June 10, 2008, at 13:04:49
Know one need answer that last post of mine.
There is such a long family history of blame and ignorance and total neglect behind it all that there is no way I could or would even want to convey it all. And of course my own hysterical response to it all.oky
Posted by gardenergirl on June 10, 2008, at 17:00:32
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by okydoky on June 10, 2008, at 13:34:04
> Know one need answer that last post of mine.
On the contrary. It speaks powerfully of your struggles and your pain. It's always a risk and a gift, imo, when someone shares that with others. Thank you for sharing it with us.
I wish you health and joy.
gg
Posted by Molybdenum on June 10, 2008, at 17:53:45
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by okydoky on June 10, 2008, at 13:34:04
Indeed okydoky,
thanks for telling us how you feel. Believe it or not, I think it helps others to hear it just as it helped you to write.
Mental illnesses carry such a stigma. Nobody blames you for having an infection or expects you to be talked out of a broken leg. Even after a lifetime of smoking induces cancer, only the most heartless would openly accuse the victim of causing it.
Yet with mental troubles we have to deal with "disbelief", being called "lazy", "weak-minded", etc. So maybe a bit of FU attitude is something to keep in mind too.
Take Care ;)
Mr. M.
Posted by okydoky on June 10, 2008, at 20:02:50
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen » okydoky, posted by Molybdenum on June 10, 2008, at 17:53:45
Thanks fo rmaking me feel not so alone.
oky
Posted by Molybdenum on June 11, 2008, at 0:55:52
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen » Molybdenum, posted by okydoky on June 10, 2008, at 20:02:50
> Thanks for making me feel not so alone.
>
> okyNo problem oky - you're at nutcase central :) Plenty of understanding here..!
Posted by Molybdenum on June 11, 2008, at 20:10:07
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by eric wagner on June 10, 2008, at 7:20:21
Eric,
I would like to apologise for making you feel upset. Reading my post later one made me think I should have been more tactful. Retrospect works wonders one me - just a pity I don't get it "before" I err - when I actually need it!
And I must remember that everyone here needs an extra portion of understanding. We all have mind problems of course, so I think it's only fair.
No - I'm not a god. Never had that delusion I'm afraid.
So please accept my apologies and a belated welcome to babbleville. Your experience thus far aside, it is a very understanding place. Dr Bob is adamant about not wanting people to feel uncomfortable. "Please be civil", he keeps saying...
Sincerely
M.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on June 11, 2008, at 21:32:14
In reply to Re: Change Your Mind, Change Your Brain-Dr. Amen, posted by yxibow on June 8, 2008, at 23:41:16
remember according to the dsm, nearly everyone can be borderline. that is far more questionable.
SPECT as a diagnostic tool has promise. the countless non-Amen studies using HMPAO are not professionally incomprehensible, clearly there is resistance to implementing knowledge. both by doctors who are traditionalists, and those who don't want to be told they have more to learn.
and it is isn't gaining favour with other important people, which has a lot to do with the fact that diagnosing illnesses and identifying new ones intimidates a lot of influential money minded people in this continent.
that said, amen does not really impress me either.
Posted by eric wagner on June 12, 2008, at 11:59:50
In reply to ** Apology to Eric ** » eric wagner, posted by Molybdenum on June 11, 2008, at 20:10:07
Molybdenum,
Thank You
I too owe an apology to you
I was just hoping my post would produce positive reactions & help/educate some/one
I do not take constructive criticism well, when I dont get my way - I act like a baby, & i jump at the chance to react, in a less than adult manner, I guess to take out my anger, frustration, & pain on someone else & not concentrate on bettering myself
I just started therapy w/ my psychiatrist (have tried before w/ a therapist & was just angry) to hopefully change some of my problems
Being on an inadequate medication, just like the past years, doesnt help either
Thanks again - for the apology, for giving me a chance to apologize & explain, & the hopefully growth I'll get from this & other experiences I have
Have a good day
By the way, as long as I've been reading on this forum - couple years, I always noticed your name
Molybdenum is a super hard additive (rock?) they use in the strongest/most expensive/supposedly best drill bits made
EMW
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
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