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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rovers95 on July 5, 2007, at 23:08:49
Has anyone on the board had experience with this drug??? What are the pros/cons???? Is it still available / obtainable???
Dont really think this is a realistic treatment option for me, just intrigued and putting it out there for discussion!!!!
rover
Posted by steel on July 6, 2007, at 9:51:38
In reply to Xyrem (GHB) for depression and anxiety, posted by rovers95 on July 5, 2007, at 23:08:49
> Has anyone on the board had experience with this drug??? What are the pros/cons???? Is it still available / obtainable???
>
> Dont really think this is a realistic treatment option for me, just intrigued and putting it out there for discussion!!!!
>
> roverGHB is a double edged sword,it is good to use when waiting on treatment as it can keep depression in check.
However it simply put intoxicates you,for a therputic dose you would need to be.So its as if you drunk,however its usualy non toxic to the body in the way liqour is,however using it brings about a severe addiction possability.
Right now the only legal script form of it is xyrem,which is very hard to get,even for the purposes its allowed for,which are primary sleep issues.
Other script forms such as gamm oh in germany,alcover in italy etc.
Other than xyrem,dirty forms of it such as analogs which are harder and totaly illegal are available through illegal means underground.
You wont find it other than xyrem where its legal and available.
Posted by shasling on July 6, 2007, at 12:32:31
In reply to Re: Xyrem (GHB) for depression and anxiety, posted by steel on July 6, 2007, at 9:51:38
Steel is correct. I am rxed Xyrem and can tell you that it CAN in SOME people SOME of the time alleviate depression for very short periods of time, but due to its rapid elimination rate it wouldnt be practical at all to depend on as an AD. You'd be diong it all day long and dependency/addiction is a very real danger. Then theres the getting it which is like veryyy difficult even with enlightened docs.
sorry. good luck.
Suzie
Posted by revaaron on July 8, 2007, at 17:45:08
In reply to Re: Xyrem (GHB) for depression and anxiety, posted by shasling on July 6, 2007, at 12:32:31
> You'd be diong it all day long and dependency/
> addiction is a very real danger.Don't get me wrong, there is a real abuse potential, and if you're taking it daily you will become physically addicted to it, even if you're not "abusing it."
However, I disagree with the idea that you would be dosing on it all day long. I've only talked to a couple folks who were using Xyrem for depression (and one for depression+AD/HD+chronic fatigue), but at least with the people I've spoken with, it was the dopamine rebound/"dawn" effect that was helping them, not the GABAergic intoxication. It was something they took before bed, slept during the intoxicated phase, and woke up with the dopamine rebound, and had the effect of increased dopamine through the day.
There is always phenibut, but it'd only be useful occasionally. That is, phenibut has a very long acting, but not as intoxicating, GABAergic effect. For me, in causes most of the good symptoms of GHB intoxication without the intoxication, at least at the doses I've had of both. Those were- anti-anxiety (more effective than any benzo, in my body at least), big increase in sociability, a lift in mood (though not euphoria), marked relaxation. I didn't feel any desire to sleep or mental impairment.
Alas, phenibut has some peculiarities that make it not sustainable. Folks can't take it every day without developing a tolerance to it quickly. This tolerance isn't the usual tolerance, like with opiates and GHB where using over long periods requires a gradual ramp up of dosage to
keep the same level of effectiveness. Phenibut tolerance starts within days and even at huge doses, after a couple weeks might be ineffective. Even folks using it dilligently twice a week report tolerance over time.Perhaps it might be worthwhile to look into some of the other GABAergics in the same family of GHB/phenibut, like Neurotonin (sp?) and Pregabalin (Lyrica). There are a few others I can't think of off the top of my head.
Posted by steel on July 9, 2007, at 8:46:15
In reply to Re: Xyrem (GHB) for depression and anxiety » shasling, posted by revaaron on July 8, 2007, at 17:45:08
> > You'd be diong it all day long and dependency/
> > addiction is a very real danger.
>
> Don't get me wrong, there is a real abuse potential, and if you're taking it daily you will become physically addicted to it, even if you're not "abusing it."
>
> However, I disagree with the idea that you would be dosing on it all day long. I've only talked to a couple folks who were using Xyrem for depression (and one for depression+AD/HD+chronic fatigue), but at least with the people I've spoken with, it was the dopamine rebound/"dawn" effect that was helping them, not the GABAergic intoxication. It was something they took before bed, slept during the intoxicated phase, and woke up with the dopamine rebound, and had the effect of increased dopamine through the day.
>
> There is always phenibut, but it'd only be useful occasionally. That is, phenibut has a very long acting, but not as intoxicating, GABAergic effect. For me, in causes most of the good symptoms of GHB intoxication without the intoxication, at least at the doses I've had of both. Those were- anti-anxiety (more effective than any benzo, in my body at least), big increase in sociability, a lift in mood (though not euphoria), marked relaxation. I didn't feel any desire to sleep or mental impairment.
>
> Alas, phenibut has some peculiarities that make it not sustainable. Folks can't take it every day without developing a tolerance to it quickly. This tolerance isn't the usual tolerance, like with opiates and GHB where using over long periods requires a gradual ramp up of dosage to
> keep the same level of effectiveness. Phenibut tolerance starts within days and even at huge doses, after a couple weeks might be ineffective. Even folks using it dilligently twice a week report tolerance over time.
>
> Perhaps it might be worthwhile to look into some of the other GABAergics in the same family of GHB/phenibut, like Neurotonin (sp?) and Pregabalin (Lyrica). There are a few others I can't think of off the top of my head.There are bigger issues with ghb then simply gaba.dopamine.That being said,the whole dopamine rebound effect is overated,simply you have to go through the extreme stupour of intoxication,example for a dopamine rebound the gaba effect first would not allow u to drive,or you shouldent.
Also as ghb fades,it dwindles from gaba B to gaba A which is stimulative and agitating.This is why most people re dose,the fast hard dwindle to the gaba a receptors cause all kinds of bad feelings.
Benzos ease this,which is why its not only recomended to use for w/d,but also with ghb.
Pheibutt is liked by many,it put me in Er,the effect came almost a day later,at work,lol.Nuerontion is a good choice for a ghb type of feel.
Emial brklyn234@yahoo.com i have lots of data on ghb
Posted by FredPotter on July 9, 2007, at 23:19:54
In reply to Re: Xyrem (GHB) for depression and anxiety, posted by steel on July 9, 2007, at 8:46:15
I thought GHB and a benzo was a good way to kill yourself
Posted by revaaron on July 9, 2007, at 23:55:21
In reply to Re: Xyrem (GHB) for depression and anxiety, posted by FredPotter on July 9, 2007, at 23:19:54
> I thought GHB and a benzo was a good way to
> kill yourselfAdd an opiate, some alcohol and a garage full of CO to be safe and you'd be jim dandy, I'm sure.
But really, Fred speaketh the truth: don't be an idiot and mix any combination of benzos, GHB (or similar meds) and booze.
Posted by steel on July 10, 2007, at 5:37:45
In reply to Re: Xyrem (GHB) for depression and anxiety, posted by FredPotter on July 9, 2007, at 23:19:54
> I thought GHB and a benzo was a good way to kill yourself
Basicaly its a drug you need to know,you really shouldent just USE it.
Yess randomly a benzo or any sedative should not be added to ghb,HOWEVER ghb causes usualy minor twitches and again knowing what your doing its actualy recomended to use with klonopin but were speaking trace doses not shoving benzos in your mouth,but the minute dose of klonopin prior to ghb use avoids the twitches that ghb is known to cause.
This is documented with ghb use in many places.
Also xyrem is much safer,much milder,than standerd ghb preparations,how,i dont know,perhaps the diuliton ratio,but it def does have the hard hard hard swing of going a few mg over therputic dose that most ghb dose.
Posted by revaaron on July 10, 2007, at 12:35:54
In reply to Re: Xyrem (GHB) for depression and anxiety, posted by steel on July 9, 2007, at 8:46:15
I'm not saying that the dopamine dawn happens or is helpful to everyone. With recreational use of GHB (self-made, not street garbage), I've never experienced any anxiety, agitation, or even the dopamine rebound effect. I never had any desire to keep redosing or add alcohol or benzos to calm me down. I did take too much once (on purpose, was seeing how high of a dose worked well) and it made me puke. I've never had a problem sleeping a whole night on GHB, either.
But that's me, and it isn't good to make generalizations based on your experience to apply to everyone.
I was sharing a few people's experience that I've spoken with, not telling everyone to go buy street GHB and try to use it for their problems.
Posted by steel on July 10, 2007, at 20:12:58
In reply to Re: Xyrem (GHB) for depression and anxiety » steel, posted by revaaron on July 10, 2007, at 12:35:54
> I'm not saying that the dopamine dawn happens or is helpful to everyone. With recreational use of GHB (self-made, not street garbage), I've never experienced any anxiety, agitation, or even the dopamine rebound effect. I never had any desire to keep redosing or add alcohol or benzos to calm me down. I did take too much once (on purpose, was seeing how high of a dose worked well) and it made me puke. I've never had a problem sleeping a whole night on GHB, either.
>
> But that's me, and it isn't good to make generalizations based on your experience to apply to everyone.
>
> I was sharing a few people's experience that I've spoken with, not telling everyone to go buy street GHB and try to use it for their problems.Sorry if i gave off the wrong impression,i was actualy speaking generaly about its use with a benzo,think we just got mixed up in translations.
Posted by revaaron on July 10, 2007, at 20:56:16
In reply to Xyrem (GHB) for depression and anxiety, posted by rovers95 on July 5, 2007, at 23:08:49
I've gotten a few Babblemails asking this, so I thought I'd say it here to save us all some trouble:
What I said was true, but happened about 10 years ago. Back then, it was cheap and easy to buy a GHB kit. You got a bottle of NaOH, one of GBL and some instructions. A 10 year old could do the synth. Super cheap too- $20 for 100g, maybe 40-60 recreational doses. Funny how you didn't hear about people start dying on the stuff until long after it was driven underground into the illicit labs, eh? I guess US drug policy and DEA is good at something, after all. :/
In case the law is reading this: I bought two kits, which was completely legal at the time. I've *never* engaged in any sort of illicit drug production, traficking or sales.
Synthesizing GHB is illegal. GBL, a GHB prodrug and its precursor, is more or less impossible to get. GBL isn't scheduled itself, but the all sales of GBL are required to be reported to the DEA, which has a ton of lattitude to decide who is using it for illegal purpoes.
http://users.lycaeum.org/~ghbfaq/GBLegal.html
For those with an acedemic interest, this is the synth I used (NaOH + GBL):
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/ghb.html#NAI really do think it's a damn shame that phenibut builds tolerance so quicky. IMHO, it's a more effective anti-anxiety med than GHB or benzos; in high doses it can intoxicate, but it's a TON easier to use than GHB for a single dose a day, non-intoxicated, anti-anxiety med. GHB is fun, but if I had anxiety problems I'd take a magically tolerance-free phenibut any day.
This is the end of the thread.
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