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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tendency on July 3, 2007, at 14:30:18
Poor man's emsam. I'm taking 5mg twice daily sublingualy. Day 1: notice definite boost in focus, concentration and motivation.
Posted by d0pamine on July 3, 2007, at 20:06:00
In reply to Starting Cyprenil, posted by tendency on July 3, 2007, at 14:30:18
At $511 / month there is no way I'd be able to afford EMSAM without insurance, and I think keeping something as helpful as that locked up so out of reach of most people is seriously bordering on criminal, but I suppose that's just how it works. At any rate, I'd be very curious to hear how it's going for you in a few weeks. Please keep us posted.
Posted by tendency on July 3, 2007, at 21:55:55
In reply to Re: Starting Cyprenil » tendency, posted by d0pamine on July 3, 2007, at 20:06:00
yeah - the drug industry is SERIOUSLY f'ed up in this country..but we all knew that.
ok one think im noticing right off the bat is that cyprenil, at least in 2X5mg doses, does appear to have a significant mao-a inhibitory effect.
i say that as im taking 8mg daily of lexapro (yeah i know - bad idea to mix ssri and maoi - but that's if you're getting a significant mao-a ihibition effect..or so i believe based upon my reading) and ive noticed myself becoming noticeably more sedated and somewhat sleepy about an hour or so after taking the cyp. so this leads me to believe it's not quite so mao-b selective, at least for me, and at this dose.
so my plan is to taper off the lexapro but stay on 5-htp and st. john's wort which were not strong enough by themselves. so, hoping that with the mao-a properties of cyp ill be able to get off the ssri completely.
more to follow..
Posted by d0pamine on July 4, 2007, at 5:48:39
In reply to Re: Starting Cyprenil » d0pamine, posted by tendency on July 3, 2007, at 21:55:55
Dood! I'd seriously reconsider that combination (even though you only plan on doing it temporarily). I know (believe me I know) it’s tough to wait on relief while you taper the SSRI, but death isn't the only possible outcome from excessive plasma serotonin levels. Excessive serotonin puts some serious wear on all your organs especially your heart and may be doing damage that’ll not show up for years to come. In spite of it’s availability and relative safety (when taken in isolation), selegiline and the inhibition of MAO is still fairly serious stuff. I personally think SSRIs are too nasty to use even in monotherapy but combining them with MAOIs is just bad. I personally would never consider using 5-htp with an MAOI either. You’ll get all the serotonin you need (and more) from the use of the Cyprenil alone. Ultimately the decision has to be yours, but I’ll sleep better having expressed my two cents. Thanks for listening.
Posted by tendency on July 4, 2007, at 9:53:48
In reply to Re: Starting Cyprenil » tendency, posted by d0pamine on July 4, 2007, at 5:48:39
I agree! I'm offa the ssri after today. just took 4mgs of lexapro and then that's it. thanks for the concern.
Posted by Sigismund on July 4, 2007, at 15:23:29
In reply to Re: Starting Cyprenil » d0pamine, posted by tendency on July 3, 2007, at 21:55:55
Cyprenil would be better, no?
I mean, when taken sublingually it should be the same as Emsam (shouldn't it)?
And the citrate is supposed to be better than the HCl.
Gave me insomnia, which is not hard to do.
Other than that I loved it.Good with Rhodiola. (sleep ditto)
Posted by Sigismund on July 4, 2007, at 15:27:52
In reply to Re: Starting Cyprenil » d0pamine, posted by tendency on July 3, 2007, at 21:55:55
1mg cyprenyl sublingual does not equal 1mg selegeline oral.
No idea of the equivalencies, but it's important if you happen to be taking an SSRI.
When I took Cyprenil my dose was 1mg/d sublingual.
Posted by tendency on July 6, 2007, at 15:02:32
In reply to Starting Cyprenil, posted by tendency on July 3, 2007, at 14:30:18
Of note: have arrived at what I think is an optimal dosing regimen: 4mg morning, 4mg noon, and 3 mg mid afternoon. Found that if I take more than 4mg at once it has a rather sedating/tranquilizing affect. Believe this could be due to increase in MAO-A inhibition at higher doses.
Definite increase in focus, motivation and concentration. Boost in libido as well. Noticed small pro-social boost (more talktative, outgoing, less anxious).
Today combined with 'DopaBeans' l-dopa supplement and have been very pleasantry surprised. Big boost in pro-social effects: much more chatty and at ease around people. Overall increase in energy and mood as well.
more to come..
Posted by Sigismund on July 6, 2007, at 15:21:40
In reply to Re: Starting Cyprenil - Day 5, posted by tendency on July 6, 2007, at 15:02:32
Sleeping OK?
Posted by tendency on July 6, 2007, at 16:11:08
In reply to Re: Starting Cyprenil - Day 5 » tendency, posted by Sigismund on July 6, 2007, at 15:21:40
sleeping like a baby..
Posted by djmmm on July 6, 2007, at 18:32:29
In reply to Starting Cyprenil, posted by tendency on July 3, 2007, at 14:30:18
> Poor man's emsam. I'm taking 5mg twice daily sublingualy. Day 1: notice definite boost in focus, concentration and motivation.
1mg of Cyprenil (liquid selegiline HCL) is equal to 5mg of oral deprenyl... I'd say it is actually a superior form of emsam :)
Posted by Sigismund on July 7, 2007, at 16:14:17
In reply to Re: Starting Cyprenil, posted by djmmm on July 6, 2007, at 18:32:29
>1mg of Cyprenil (liquid selegiline HCL) is equal to 5mg of oral deprenyl
That's right, is it?
It certainly feels stronger.
Posted by tendency on July 9, 2007, at 11:19:13
In reply to Starting Cyprenil, posted by tendency on July 3, 2007, at 14:30:18
Definitely finding less is more w/ cyprenil. have cut back to 2mg BID and am really enjoying the results. very effective mood brightening and helps focus/motivation (though not quite enough to kill off ADD symptoms).
Have begun to combine it with tianeptine (stablon) and really feeling good - this think could be a nice combo.
Next up, going to add in some piribedel (trivastal) in about 10 days to see if i can finish off the add symptoms.
Posted by dewdropinn on July 10, 2007, at 1:29:55
In reply to Re: Starting Cyprenil - Day 8, posted by tendency on July 9, 2007, at 11:19:13
The world of selegiline is full of possibilities -- it can be a miracle drug, but it also carries with it some very serious risks.
People have taken Celexa and Lexapro in combination with Selegiline -- there are published studies involving the combo -- and there are doctors, particularly doctors who work with Parkinsons patients, who prescribe it. I was on 5mg of selegiline along with Celexa for years without a problem. The danger with mixing selegiline and a highly selective SSRI like Lexapro or Celexa lies in the fact that, if your selegiline dosage gets anywhere near the threshhold of MAO-A inhibition, you're heading to the emergency room.
As I'm sure you know, there aren't any dietary restrictions with low dose selegiline. There are however some very, very dangerous interactions that can occur with over the counter drugs, herbs, and amino acids, and generally speaking, I would proceed with caution when considering any nutritional supplement outside of B-vitamins, minerals, and essential fatty acids. By itself, selegiline is marvelous, but when you start throwing other psychoactive substances in the mix, you're just asking for trouble.
In my experience, there's no difference in potency between the Cyprenil and the standard pill or capsule. The liquid loses it's potency after a couple of months, so that's something to watch out for. I know that the internet drug merchants have pages and pages of anecdotes touting the glories and purity of liquid deprenyl. Years ago. I bought the same pitch and the same product -- so I can vouch for the effacy of their marketing.
For me, EMSAM has been a miracle drug. Once you enter the MAO inhibition associated with the higher doses, the patch becomes a potent anti-depressant. The pill and liquid are certainly energizing, but I never noticed a true anti-depressant effect -- so there's a big difference in the effect of the pill/liquid vs patch. Beyond it's obvious application as an antidepressant, EMSAM has already proven efficacious for the treatment of ADHD in several studies, and I know that there's quite a bit of on-going research in this area.
If you have insurance, I would beg and plead with your doctor to give EMSAM a whirl. It's ideally suited for those of us who have a hefty helping of ADHD to go along with our mood disorders -- there simply isn't a better drug on the market -- and I've probably tried over 50 of them over the years.
So, you may be onto a good thing with selegiline. I would encourage you to seriously explore EMSAM as a treatment option, because it strikes me as a potential answer to many of the issues you are grappling with.
Best of luck,
Drew
> Definitely finding less is more w/ cyprenil. have cut back to 2mg BID and am really enjoying the results. very effective mood brightening and helps focus/motivation (though not quite enough to kill off ADD symptoms).
>
> Have begun to combine it with tianeptine (stablon) and really feeling good - this think could be a nice combo.
>
> Next up, going to add in some piribedel (trivastal) in about 10 days to see if i can finish off the add symptoms.
Posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2007, at 3:14:52
In reply to Cyprenil/Selegiline - Advice + Caution, posted by dewdropinn on July 10, 2007, at 1:29:55
I've combined low dose Cyprenil (1mg/d sublingual) with tianeptine without ill effect,
Posted by tendency on July 13, 2007, at 11:14:56
In reply to Re: Starting Cyprenil - Day 8, posted by tendency on July 9, 2007, at 11:19:13
Taking 6.75mg tianeptine QID and 1 drop cyprenil AM. Found it's taking about 11 days for the cyprenil to fully kick in and it has w/ a vengeance!
I'm quite impressed so far: very activating (though w/ some mild anxiety hopefully this will pass). Focus and concentration are improved noticeably.
good stuff.
This is the end of the thread.
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