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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by stargazer2 on June 25, 2007, at 9:59:06
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » gardenergirl, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 25, 2007, at 6:39:58
GI, I went from 45 to 60 in the last 2 weeks and we think I should stay there another week or two. I'm not getting a clear cut improvement but rather a gradual one which is good although the very first time I took Nardil in 1987, the transformation was distinctly clearer, so I do question the efficacy of the new pills (2003) made by Pfizer despite them denying any change in the primary formula, despite changing the coating and affecting the dissolving of the pills.
I have heard of the 1 mg/kg formula. Divide your weight by 2.2 and that gives you the mg you should be on, i.e. if you weigh 150/2.2=68 or approx 70 mg.
My pdoc thinks lowering my dosage back to 45 mg may be a good idea since I did have an early brightening of my mood in the second week but it dissipated rather quickly. Since I am still having some mild pitting edema of my ankles, he is concerned about that side effect, but I had it at 45 mg too, so perhaps I will go to 45 or even 30 to see at what dose the edema disappears. My early am lightheadedness is better with taking 15 mg in the am and 45 mg at night, and to help with afternoon lethargy which has improved somewhat but is still present.
That's my story for the last 6-7 weeks.
Stargazer
Posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2007, at 10:36:15
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » gardenergirl, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 25, 2007, at 6:39:58
> gardenergirl, it was really unnecessary for you to interpret Philipa's post.
Perhaps it was necessary for me.
> I find it strange that she [suggests I try--(edit mine)] a search engine ... .And thus, you could leave versus take her suggestions, I would think. Perhaps you've never posted on a forum where the range of replies varies?
> Please allow people to express themselves freely.I have no idea why you would think I could allow or disallow your self-expression. But thanks for asking, I guess.
> It really was unnecessary that you tried to make this a battle.
Gee, I thought it was a discussion. Shoot, I guess I must have forgotten again to take off my armor and broadsword before posting, danged ADHD. I can see how that might suggest a battle, sorry. ;)
> I simply questioned her inability to recognize that I needed support from people at THIS forum.
I wonder if that er, expressed interpretation might influence the likelihood of others venturing to post to you, but that remains to be seen, eh?
> I didn't need to be sent away to a different site, or reminded that I should ask my doctor, those are things that any adult knows.
Just friendly advice, you might want to prepare yourself for similar answers down the road. It's not uncommon to find those suggestions within the advice that others post here.
regards,
gg
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 25, 2007, at 13:32:44
In reply to About replies » girlnterrupted78, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2007, at 10:36:15
We can agree to disagree, but I don't understand why you had to address me twice. I received your babble-mail before you posted either message on this forum. In there, you suggested to keep these kind of conversations private. But then you come and make them public. I don't understand why you give advice but then you do the opposite.
Anyway. I'm just expressing my feelings freely about how I feel about some people's approach to advising. I think I can do that without having to be reprimanded.
Posted by 10derHeart on June 25, 2007, at 14:40:32
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » gardenergirl, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 25, 2007, at 6:39:58
>I'm sorry, but I get very irritated when I see your responses
>I'm just really exasperated by your continuous lack of real help in your responses.
>Every single reply I got was helpful, except for yours
>It felt unwelcoming and was unhelpful.> Your only feebdack is for me to leave this forums
> It really was unnecessary that you tried to make this a battle.Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, and please don't jump to conclusions about others.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Respectfully,
10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by FredPotter on June 25, 2007, at 15:35:08
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » Phillipa, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 24, 2007, at 23:21:32
Hey Phillipa have you reconsidered trying Nardil? I think the weight gain may be wearing off. Mind you I'm on a meat and fat + green veg diet. It really is the AD that's done the biz for me though. The sex thing is a nuisance but they say that wears off too eventually. Oh dear, perhaps the AD effect will wear off too, as my body doesn't know which is the desired effect and which are side effects Fred
Posted by malcolm664 on June 25, 2007, at 15:41:13
In reply to Re: About replies » gardenergirl, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 25, 2007, at 13:32:44
> We can agree to disagree, but I don't understand why you had to address me twice. I received your babble-mail before you posted either message on this forum. In there, you suggested to keep these kind of conversations private. But then you come and make them public. I don't understand why you give advice but then you do the opposite.
>
> Anyway. I'm just expressing my feelings freely about how I feel about some people's approach to advising. I think I can do that without having to be reprimanded.For what it's worth, I completely agree with you. I think Phillipa is addicted to this board (so am I) but the majority of her postings don't offer any guidance whatsoever. It's almost as if she reflexively replies to messages just for the sake of replying, without having any direct experience with the topic being discussed. I've made that point before and then apologized to her about it. But I think I should have stuck to my original point.
I think she means well, but the majority of her posts just end up being irritating.
Malcolm
Posted by FredPotter on June 25, 2007, at 15:43:42
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in?, posted by stargazer2 on June 25, 2007, at 9:59:06
I like having a drink at the weekend (sometimes) but find that with Nardil I just blob and fall asleep. Would anyone comment on the idea of giving up Nardil for a couple of days? If it's done it's work in disabling MAO and MAO takes a while to build up again, I don't see why this would present any problems. That is apart from the GABA effect (but I'm sure alcohol would see to that)
Fred
Posted by steel on June 25, 2007, at 16:46:56
In reply to About replies » girlnterrupted78, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2007, at 10:36:15
Phillipa has contacted me on a personal level a few times.Perhaps this is the case as well.
There are a few problems here,first i think phillipa is more sensative then most imagine.As in my case when i presented this issue it brought upon a storm down on me from many,when in with all truthfullness i can say i meant it as a concern.
I have close friends here,and id expect and HOPE theyd tell me if i were posting too much and possably doing myself more harm than good.
IT NEVER was a insult on phillipas character,only a low life form would come here to make someone feel bad,and i dont believe this here also is that case as well.
I gave my opinion on the situation often,as well as never ignore a email from her as well,but that is simply what i saw.
My concern is this problem seems to come up a bit,and its almost instamatic that certain people respond almost in a defense mode.
Perhaps if the issue continues to come up,you might want to take in the possability that there is a problem,i mean how many times does a birdie have to plopper on your car before u move it,lol.
So again maybe counting up all the times its been an issue,perhaps the powers that be might be may i suggest wrong? on the response?
I dont know,i just dont think its a matter of comming to her defense,rather phillipa needs to understand no one is trying to hurt her,rather looking out for a persons best interest.
I know its easy to get caught up on this group,and i sometimes do and see it and pull back,its honestly in of course my own eyes not a place you want to become tight knitted in,make friends from it to use for support offline,thats a great option,as well as phillipa,do you know how much your responses are probuably needed in social,im betting your moral and social support is definatly a asset to that board as well.
Either way its a shame when anyone here is feeling as if its not a place to come,it totaly defeats the purpose,right or wrong we need to remeber people look for understanding and since thats what is here,we should in no way ever make someone feel this is not a place for them to get that,EVER.
Just my two cents.
Posted by Deputy Racer on June 25, 2007, at 16:58:44
In reply to Re: About replies, posted by malcolm664 on June 25, 2007, at 15:41:13
> >
> For what it's worth, I completely agree with you. I think Phillipa is addicted to this board (so am I) but the majority of her postings don't offer any guidance whatsoever. It's almost as if she reflexively replies to messages just for the sake of replying, without having any direct experience with the topic being discussed.
>
> I think she means well, but the majority of her posts just end up being irritating.
>
> MalcolmPlease don't post anything which could lead others to feel accused or put down. In this case, since I issued a PBC to you about exactly the same issue less than two months ago, I'm going to block you from posting for a week. I'm very sorry to do this.
Any follow ups should be directed to the Admin board, and should themselves be civil. If anyone has any questions about what is meant by civil, please read the FAQ, located at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Dr Bob has ultimate authority over any administrative issues, and may at any time revise or reverse any actions taken by a deputy.
Deputy Racer
Posted by iforgotmypassword on June 25, 2007, at 18:47:13
In reply to Re: About replies, posted by malcolm664 on June 25, 2007, at 15:41:13
why is this "issue" coming up again? not a personal comment to you, but this "issue" is irritating. philipa deals with an illness that is very disabling for the long term, and she doesn't have the option of just returning to life again like many people, for example, how many standard bipolars do, after some set out treatment. if she is on the computer a lot, enough of us understand and empathize, even if some others don't. many people are very grateful for philipa's participation here, many, and that's what matters. any "irritation" over this, in whomever, can really be dealt with privately on their own by whoever individual person or people who feel they are experiencing it, and i respectfully suggest they just get over it. this forum has a lot of people on it, and it's for everyone who finds this place useful. at least that is how i interpret things.
that is my opinion, not an attack,
thank you if you consider it.
Posted by Phillipa on June 25, 2007, at 19:24:12
In reply to Re: About replies, posted by iforgotmypassword on June 25, 2007, at 18:47:13
Hey guys I am very interested in learning all I can about all meds as so far no work for me. To Fred and we are friends nardil is an option collecting info and also my prior work as a psch nurse nationally certified makes me want to gather as much knowledge as possible. And you are all real people so your experiences are very important to me. But seriously I check my e-mails in the am and save babble for nighttime. Never will find on the male threads as I respect their privacy. But do all posters know that if they can't find the med they are looking for the Dr. Bob google is not google per say but the achieves of all the posters through the years who have posted on a med. Check at the bottom and type in a med name and all threads new and old will appear by the posters of this board. You know I e-mail with a lot of posters and there are some who have left after a med has worked so we discuss aspects of side effects other options. This is a valuable place to come to. And I do admitt to some OCD hence the luvox but they say OCD makes a good nurse or doc. Love Phillipa and I'm fine.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2007, at 21:02:29
In reply to Re: About replies, posted by steel on June 25, 2007, at 16:46:56
>i mean how many times does a birdie have to plopper on your car before u move it,lol.
>Exactly, you move it. You don't shoot the bird. The bird is free to plop where it wants to. You are free to move the car, aka ignore a post, if you don't like the plop.
gg
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 0:08:29
In reply to Please be civil » girlnterrupted78, posted by 10derHeart on June 25, 2007, at 14:40:32
"Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, and please don't jump to conclusions about others."
I haven't. Since the beginning, I specified this was not an attack on Philipa. But I think an environment where people are discouraged from speaking freely and honestly is an unhealthy environment. I wrote what I did because that's honestly how I feel. I enjoy sharing my progress, my medical trials, my symptoms, and everything that provides others with a better understanding of the illness we suffer from.
But I don't enjoy being bossed around and treated like someone who doesn't already know that google or doctors exist. We all know about those options, and we are all here to share our trials and errors. I asked how long it's taken others for Nardil to kick in. Philipa has never been on Nardil.
I don't see how my being honest is such an infraction. People seem to get censored/silenced here when they speak honestly about how they feel. In real life situations, people speak up and social rules are followed. Not sure why not here.
Oh, and by the way, being honest doesn't equal being uncivil. Thanks.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 26, 2007, at 0:39:52
In reply to Re: Please be civil » 10derHeart, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 0:08:29
As per 10derheart's request for where to direct follow-ups. Here is a link to my reply there: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20070605/msgs/765847.html
Regards,
gg
Posted by stargazer2 on June 26, 2007, at 13:15:44
In reply to Re: Please be civil » 10derHeart, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 0:08:29
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 13:57:43
In reply to Can we get back to the medical issues? (nm), posted by stargazer2 on June 26, 2007, at 13:15:44
Yes, we should, stargazer2.
I somehow felt really good for a couple of days on Nardil. But then the feeling went away. I wondered why. I am taking 45mgs and I'm currently in the middle of my third week.
One day, by accident, I ingested an additional tablet of Nardil, which made it 60mgs. I felt a slight improvement. I don't know if this means I should ask my doctor to increase my dose. Maybe it will kick in faster if I go up to 60-75mgs? I've been thinking about it.
When did Nardil kick in for you and under what dose? (Sorry if you already answered this, I just can't remember and I have limited time to search this website due to excessive amount of work.) Thanks.
Posted by FredPotter on June 26, 2007, at 15:30:14
In reply to Re: Can we get back to the medical issues? » stargazer2, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 13:57:43
I must have a good Dr as he told me to adjust the dose myself, understanding that 90mg was the maximum. I was beginning to slip back a bit on 60mg so now I'm on 75mg and feel great. My body weight suggests I should take 90. The sexual dysfunction is a drag, but I'm losing a bit of weight. I don't know if this side effect is wearing off or whether it's my high meat, low carb diet. I think you should try raising the dose though, but what do I know?
Fred
Posted by BabyBunny on June 26, 2007, at 17:39:41
In reply to Re: About replies, posted by iforgotmypassword on June 25, 2007, at 18:47:13
I totally agree. And sometimes it's nice to know someone is reading because I know I have posted many times and not received a response. But there's one thing... I can always count on Phillipa to at least acknowledge me. I feel she's a true asset to this board. She's always been there for me even if only to wish me well.
I am not one to sit and watch something like this take place without saying something because guess what? I'm very much like Phillipa and I know that she has only positive or caring intentions when she posts. Period. And I am the same way. Even now. Gosh I don't want anyone to feel hurt or left out as I know that feeling all too well.
Anyway I hope everyone is feeling better now and that people try to remember that everyone has feelings and experiences of some sort here. And everyone has something to contribute. Sometimes it may not be what we want to hear, but hey that's life as I know it!
Take care everyone and God Bless. May you all find peace, health and happiness. Have a wonderful night!
Hugs,
Baby Bunny
> why is this "issue" coming up again? not a personal comment to you, but this "issue" is irritating. philipa deals with an illness that is very disabling for the long term, and she doesn't have the option of just returning to life again like many people, for example, how many standard bipolars do, after some set out treatment. if she is on the computer a lot, enough of us understand and empathize, even if some others don't. many people are very grateful for philipa's participation here, many, and that's what matters. any "irritation" over this, in whomever, can really be dealt with privately on their own by whoever individual person or people who feel they are experiencing it, and i respectfully suggest they just get over it. this forum has a lot of people on it, and it's for everyone who finds this place useful. at least that is how i interpret things.
>
> that is my opinion, not an attack,
>
> thank you if you consider it.
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 18:14:05
In reply to Re: About replies » iforgotmypassword, posted by BabyBunny on June 26, 2007, at 17:39:41
Ok, even though we're trying to get back to the subject matter of the thread, I will make one last comment on the issue of Philipa because you brought it up.
I believe I did say in my post that I appreciated the fact that Philipa was always trying to be helpful. But I said that it simply made it stressful (irritating, although I won't use that word again not to offend anyone) for me to come to a support site to find that someone finds me dumb enough not to know that google and doctors exist. I just felt ordered around and dumbed down and it annoyed me.
I do recognize that Philipa is a very nice person who is always trying to help. But it is just the amount of certain type of posts she makes--those where the lack of direct information and personal experience makes them not helpful and rather as if she had a duty to respond to every single thread regardless of her knowledge (or lack thereof) on the subject matter of the thread.
Maybe Philipa could in fact do a google search and come up with some helpful information and statistics, when she is unfamiliar with the topic, so that her comments would be in fact on the helpful side, rather than on the commanding side. I don't think anyone likes to be commanded by people who don't know anything about the questions they are asking, and that is one of the things that made me uneasy about her comment. If Philipa loves helping, how about providing some different kind of help? I know she likes to spend time online. Her help would be welcome and appreciated if she contributed with actual information instead of commands and orders on the topics she's not familiar with.
Just a thought.
Posted by BabyBunny on June 26, 2007, at 18:34:42
In reply to Re: About replies » BabyBunny, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 18:14:05
I can see where you're coming from and did before. I just don't want anyone's feelings hurt as all of us here have it rough enough as it is. I'm sure you can relate.
That was all I was trying to get at. I was actually trying to make a peaceful post. And I do appreciate your reply. I found it to the point and not at all rude. And I thank you. :)
I just want everyone to feel welcome because I can say from personal experience sometimes that doesn't just happen. And I also want everyone to get the info they need because that's really important and the point of this board. Heck we all need all the help we can get!
I hope someone was able to answer your question. I know there's been many times mine have gone unanswered and I have felt the frustration. But I forget about it because there's always something new popping up! LOL Sheesh!
Take good care and I hope you get the help you seek. And that goes for everyone. :)
Hugs,
Baby Bunny
> Ok, even though we're trying to get back to the subject matter of the thread, I will make one last comment on the issue of Philipa because you brought it up.
>
> I believe I did say in my post that I appreciated the fact that Philipa was always trying to be helpful. But I said that it simply made it stressful (irritating, although I won't use that word again not to offend anyone) for me to come to a support site to find that someone finds me dumb enough not to know that google and doctors exist. I just felt ordered around and dumbed down and it annoyed me.
>
> I do recognize that Philipa is a very nice person who is always trying to help. But it is just the amount of certain type of posts she makes--those where the lack of direct information and personal experience makes them not helpful and rather as if she had a duty to respond to every single thread regardless of her knowledge (or lack thereof) on the subject matter of the thread.
>
> Maybe Philipa could in fact do a google search and come up with some helpful information and statistics, when she is unfamiliar with the topic, so that her comments would be in fact on the helpful side, rather than on the commanding side. I don't think anyone likes to be commanded by people who don't know anything about the questions they are asking, and that is one of the things that made me uneasy about her comment. If Philipa loves helping, how about providing some different kind of help? I know she likes to spend time online. Her help would be welcome and appreciated if she contributed with actual information instead of commands and orders on the topics she's not familiar with.
>
> Just a thought.
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 18:41:46
In reply to Re: Can we get back to the medical issues? » girlnterrupted78, posted by FredPotter on June 26, 2007, at 15:30:14
Unfortunately, due to my financial situation, I have to go to a low-cost clinic.
I get to see my psychiatrist only once a month. He is never available except for the 15 minutes I see him once a month. You cannot cancel an appointment, even ahead of time, without having to go through a long and painful process of re-establishing your psychiatric care; the process includes seeing a social worker, (paying for such visit), and explaining the reason why you missed the appointment. The social workers for this type of problems can only see you two days a week, in a margin of 3 hours in the morning, a time when I am usually at work or in school. So since I had to cancel one of my appts recently due to an important personal reason, I will have to go through this process. I might get to see my psychiatrist in 1-2 months. In the meantime, I can't go up the dose. Yes, it is this hard when you don't have money and need to go to a low-cost clinic with ridiculous rules.
To top it all, my doc doesn't know much about Nardil. He asked me to download the list of restrictions from the Internet and to make sure I followed the diet. But he can't answer too many questions about it. It's rough to be treated under these circumstances.
Posted by FredPotter on June 26, 2007, at 22:44:35
In reply to Re: Can we get back to the medical issues? » FredPotter, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 18:41:46
I don't see a psychiatrist at all. I fell out with him and refused to pay his exorbitant fee in future. My Dr doesn't know squat about Nardil but is happy to go along with my suggestions. Your low-cost set-up sounds outrageous. Start developing psychotic delusions though and I expect they'll see you rather more quickly
Posted by 10derHeart on June 26, 2007, at 23:33:29
In reply to Re: About replies » BabyBunny, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 18:14:05
>I don't enjoy being bossed around
>I said that it simply made it stressful (irritating, although I won't use that word again not to offend anyone)
( Unfortunately, you *did* use the word again... )
>someone finds me dumb enough not to know that google and doctors exist
>...makes them not helpful
> I don't think anyone likes to be commanded by people who don't know anything about the questions they are asking,
I am going to have to block you from posting for a week, as yesterday I requested that you be civil by not posting things that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
In the future, I do encourage you to review the FAQ for a better understanding of the civility rules here, particularly how to phrase things with "I" statements about your own feelings, instead of characterizing the words or motivations of others.
> Oh, and by the way, being honest doesn't equal being uncivil
I'm sorry, but sometimes I'm afraid here it may, as in this case.
Any follow ups should be directed to the Admin board, and should themselves be civil. If anyone has any questions about what is meant by civil, please read the FAQ, located at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Dr Bob has ultimate authority over any administrative issues, and may at any time revise or reverse any actions taken by a deputy.
Deputy 10derHeart
Posted by 10derHeart on June 26, 2007, at 23:36:15
In reply to Re: About replies, posted by iforgotmypassword on June 25, 2007, at 18:47:13
> but this "issue" is irritating.
>i respectfully suggest they just get over it.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. I realize you are supporting Phillipa, and that is much appreciated. However, the civility rules require us not to post these sorts of comments.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Respectfully,
10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by F00TBALL on June 28, 2007, at 15:58:17
In reply to What dose or Nardil needed to kick in?, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 23, 2007, at 22:24:59
60 MG is usually considered to be the minimum effective dose, though some people do see benefits at 45 MG.
At this point, you can definitely increase to 60 MG.
This is the end of the thread.
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