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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 10:54:29
Some of you might have noticed my near absence from the boards over the last week or so. I began taking the Coaxil brand of tianeptine (usually known by the brand name Stablon) on Monday morning. It was effective within an hour in producing a feeling of utter calm and serenity. after suffering for months with intense nervous tension the relief was palpable - like lifting a heavy weight from the middle of my belly where it had been causing a chronic, niggling pain. Right away though, I noticed I was somewhat distanced from my emotions and I found that uncomfortable and a little disturbing. I returned to my usual tense, irritable self about five hours after taking the first dose. I debated whether to take it again, but after suffering a bad night and morning the next day I took another dose and have been taking three 12.5mg tablets a day all this week.
Again, I seem to be distanced from my emotions - I feel like I've 'lost touch with myself' in some way that's hard to define, but I find unpleasant. Last night I plugged in my TV set which has been languishing neglected in the corner of my living room for almost a year and watched some trashy soap operas while eating a tub of ice-cream. It's such a normal, everyday thing to do that you might be wondering what the fuss is about, but that's so unlike me - it's like a personality change. I came online and surfed the boards here but couldn't make sense of what was going on, and even when I thought of a good reply, I couldn't be bothered to actually sit and type out a response. I've found myself wanting to expose myself to more stimulation, like the TV (I know........but that is stimulating for me who usually reads a book or sits deep in thought), going outside for a walk, maybe even a run, and the idea of applying for a job even crossed my mind this morning.
I realize that to all the people here who are still suffering this might seem ungrateful, but to me this is actually a reduction in the quality of my life, even though I might be more 'functional'. I seem to have lost contact with the person I came to know so well after quitting benzos, and I'm glad I did meet him - he opened my eyes to many things and this almost seems like a betrayal to him. That might seem an odd and mawkish thing to say, but that's how I feel. I am of course speaking in the language used in 'new-age' humanistic counselling, but that approach made me aware that reality is like an onion skin, with ever deeper layers of meaning and I feel I'm missing much of that subtlety since now I'm taking tianeptine.
It would be easier to live in harmony with other people while I'm like this - it's hard to get worked up about anything, so I'd be more willing to let things slide just to keep the peace. I suppose that would make me seem more compassionate and empathetic, but it's an illusion.
I feel lost in a way - like I could go and hold down a dull 9-5 job for the rest of my life right now and be content that I was doing my bit, paying my way, and not be bothered by or question the lack of purpose and deeper meaning in my life. I wonder if this is how most 'normal' people view the world? If so then I feel for them, they must find spiritual practise and empathy very difficult. That always puzzled and frustrated me, perhaps now I've found the answer? So at least I can take something good back with me from this trial.
I am going to stop the tianeptine because this just isn't the way I want to live my life, but I suspect it will be difficult, and I might not be successful. I understand now why Declan said tianeptine would be hard to give up after a few years of use. That isn't a criticism of people who choose to live their lives in this state, it's my own preference in the direction I want to take my life. I still don't know exactly what that is, but my tianeptine trial has given me new insights and plenty of food for thought.
Q
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 8, 2007, at 11:47:35
In reply to Coaxil; it's working,.........yet................., posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 10:54:29
Hey Q
Well I've missed you for a start! Anyway, your experiences are very interesting. I understand what you're saying. Thats very (very!) loosely comparable to the way I felt taking cipramil for one and a half years - and now why I'm remaining unmedicated. Although, I don't think 'normal' people feel this way. I think a awful lot of people hold down boring 9-5 jobs out of economic need. But that said, they don't seem to get depressed and when I speak to some of my friends in this position, they don't seem to be, well, I'm not too sure how to put it, but they don't let things get to them like I would. But then, I've realised that when you're actually not depressed, everything becomes a whole lot easier.
I tend to find I blame the outside world for my misery - and I tend to think that (for instance) I'll be less miserable once I've started my masters, moved away from the UK etc etc. Only then I discover that these external things don't help make me less miserable. Its all internal. Maybe its hope too. When you're miserable you tend to pin so much hope on things I'm sure 'normal' people don't. But then, these invariably let you down because they don't then make you any less miserable and I guess, you become more bitter and more miserable....
'Paradise is not someplace you go, its how you feel for a moment in your life'. I think that was a quote from The Beach and sort of sums it up for me.
I wish I were mentally more resilient.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2007, at 11:47:42
In reply to Coaxil; it's working,.........yet................., posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 10:54:29
Q what do you think of the tramdol ultram and blueberry? He's suffered so long? Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 14:43:22
In reply to Re: Coaxil; it's working,.........yet............., posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 8, 2007, at 11:47:35
>Well I've missed you for a start!
Why thank you Miss M! Cipramil was the only SSRI I lasted nearly a year on too, but with that I felt sort of numb and flat - this is a little different. Hard to describe exactly, vaguely disconnected - like being in an emotional fog. Complete lack of the strong well-defined emotions I usually have. Good in some ways, and others not.............
Yes, I know a lot of people hold down unfulfilling jobs because they need the money - I did that myself even during benzo withdrawal. It's that most 'normal' people seem relatively insensitive, and that's what tianeptine seems to be doing to me. I know there are sensitive people who are just very happy and optimistic though, but as we've discussed elsewhere, some have relatively sheltered lives and I suppose that helps quite a bit in building self-esteem and resilience?
Q
Posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 14:45:17
In reply to Re: Coaxil; it's working,.........yet................. » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2007, at 11:47:42
I'm very pleased to hear blueberry is having a remission with tramadol. It doesn't surprise me given my success with codeine, and I had good results with tramadol myself for a few months. It's just a pity opiates are not more widely used in treatment resistant depression.
Q
Posted by linkadge on March 8, 2007, at 20:34:24
In reply to Re: Coaxil; it's working,.........yet................. » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 14:45:17
Interesting. Funny you mentioned GI relief (?). Tianeptine is seeking approval for treatemnt of IBS I think.
Increasing the reuptake of serotinin in the gut, might reduce serotonergically mediated stress induced GI problems, at least in theory.
Linkadge
Posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 20:51:16
In reply to Re: Coaxil; it's working,.........yet................., posted by linkadge on March 8, 2007, at 20:34:24
Yes, I've managed to eat full meals for the first time in months without having to stop because of the nausea. Food has actually started to be appetizing and enjoyable again vs. forcing myself to meet a purely biological need for survival.
My stomach does seem to have been a lot calmer since I started it - I just don't get worked up about anything so there's nothing to set it off. It's certainly kinder on the gut than the SSRI laxative/emetic start-up effects, in fact I've had no side effects at all.
Q
Posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 20:57:01
In reply to Re: Coaxil; it's working,.........yet................. » linkadge, posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 20:51:16
I took my usual dose of codeine a few hours ago and all the emotional fuzziness disappeared, so maybe it was due to the opiate withdrawal rather than tianeptine? Anyway, I've decided to stay on it until I've eaten the whole packet then I'll decide whether it's worth continuing long-term. It does seem promising so far, and thank goodness, it seems to be a little aphrodisiac/orgasm enhancing. What more could you want?
Q
Posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 21:22:23
In reply to Maybe it's alright afterall..................., posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 20:57:01
__________________________________________________
In fact tianeptine may finally reach the USA branded not as an antidepressant, but in the guise of a treatment of Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS). For in 2004 Vela Pharmaceuticals registered a patent for the use of tianeptine to treat IBS. In March 2006 Pharmos Corporation acquired Vela. Tianeptine for IBS is now in "late-preclinical development" (mid-2006). If and when a medicine gains a US product license, physicians can then prescribe it "off-label" for whatever they see fit, including depression. But this prospect is several years away at best.
Tianeptine is reported to be moderately useful in treating Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD).
Tianeptine is also useful for asthmatics. It's a fast-acting bronchodilator. There is a positive association between free serotonin in plasma and severity of asthma in patients undergoing asthma attacks. Tianeptine is the only licensed psychoactive agent known to reduce free serotonin in plasma. People with atopic allergies are also more prone to mood disorders. Indeed for pain-wracked alcoholic asthmatics with anxious depression, tianeptine may be considered a first choice of treatment.
http://www.tianeptine.com/
__________________________________________________I've also noticed that I seem to be breathing more freely after each dose and I no longer need an anti-snoring strip at night to keep my airways open. I just seem to be breathing more freely, but I remeber Declan having a mucus problem with it.
Q
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 9, 2007, at 1:44:17
In reply to Re: Coaxil; it's working,.........yet............. » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 14:43:22
Hey
> It's that most 'normal' people seem relatively insensitive, and that's what tianeptine seems to be doing to me.
Yeah I think that was what I was trying to say. They hold down crap jobs but are resilient enough not to what to kill themselves over it. Me, on the other hand....well thats a different story!
> I know there are sensitive people who are just very happy and optimistic though, but as we've discussed elsewhere, some have relatively sheltered lives and I suppose that helps quite a bit in building self-esteem and resilience?
Yeah. I agree. Sigh.
M
Posted by halcyondaze on March 9, 2007, at 14:48:12
In reply to Coaxil; it's working,.........yet................., posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 10:54:29
Is this the European brand name? I've never heard of it.
> Some of you might have noticed my near absence from the boards over the last week or so. I began taking the Coaxil brand of tianeptine (usually known by the brand name Stablon) on Monday morning. It was effective within an hour in producing a feeling of utter calm and serenity. after suffering for months with intense nervous tension the relief was palpable - like lifting a heavy weight from the middle of my belly where it had been causing a chronic, niggling pain. Right away though, I noticed I was somewhat distanced from my emotions and I found that uncomfortable and a little disturbing. I returned to my usual tense, irritable self about five hours after taking the first dose. I debated whether to take it again, but after suffering a bad night and morning the next day I took another dose and have been taking three 12.5mg tablets a day all this week.
>
> Again, I seem to be distanced from my emotions - I feel like I've 'lost touch with myself' in some way that's hard to define, but I find unpleasant. Last night I plugged in my TV set which has been languishing neglected in the corner of my living room for almost a year and watched some trashy soap operas while eating a tub of ice-cream. It's such a normal, everyday thing to do that you might be wondering what the fuss is about, but that's so unlike me - it's like a personality change. I came online and surfed the boards here but couldn't make sense of what was going on, and even when I thought of a good reply, I couldn't be bothered to actually sit and type out a response. I've found myself wanting to expose myself to more stimulation, like the TV (I know........but that is stimulating for me who usually reads a book or sits deep in thought), going outside for a walk, maybe even a run, and the idea of applying for a job even crossed my mind this morning.
>
> I realize that to all the people here who are still suffering this might seem ungrateful, but to me this is actually a reduction in the quality of my life, even though I might be more 'functional'. I seem to have lost contact with the person I came to know so well after quitting benzos, and I'm glad I did meet him - he opened my eyes to many things and this almost seems like a betrayal to him. That might seem an odd and mawkish thing to say, but that's how I feel. I am of course speaking in the language used in 'new-age' humanistic counselling, but that approach made me aware that reality is like an onion skin, with ever deeper layers of meaning and I feel I'm missing much of that subtlety since now I'm taking tianeptine.
>
> It would be easier to live in harmony with other people while I'm like this - it's hard to get worked up about anything, so I'd be more willing to let things slide just to keep the peace. I suppose that would make me seem more compassionate and empathetic, but it's an illusion.
>
> I feel lost in a way - like I could go and hold down a dull 9-5 job for the rest of my life right now and be content that I was doing my bit, paying my way, and not be bothered by or question the lack of purpose and deeper meaning in my life. I wonder if this is how most 'normal' people view the world? If so then I feel for them, they must find spiritual practise and empathy very difficult. That always puzzled and frustrated me, perhaps now I've found the answer? So at least I can take something good back with me from this trial.
>
> I am going to stop the tianeptine because this just isn't the way I want to live my life, but I suspect it will be difficult, and I might not be successful. I understand now why Declan said tianeptine would be hard to give up after a few years of use. That isn't a criticism of people who choose to live their lives in this state, it's my own preference in the direction I want to take my life. I still don't know exactly what that is, but my tianeptine trial has given me new insights and plenty of food for thought.
>
> Q
Posted by bulldog2 on March 9, 2007, at 15:30:47
In reply to Re: Coaxil; it's working,.........yet................., posted by halcyondaze on March 9, 2007, at 14:48:12
I'm wondering if by depleting the system of serotonin this drug is indirectly causing a rise in dopamine. Everytime we alter one neurotransmitter in the brain we usually affect one of the other ones.
Posted by Quintal on March 9, 2007, at 17:38:03
In reply to Re: Coaxil; it's working,.........yet................., posted by halcyondaze on March 9, 2007, at 14:48:12
Yes, I think it's the Czech brand name for tianeptine.
Q
Posted by Quintal on March 9, 2007, at 17:40:20
In reply to Re: Coaxil; it's working,.........yet................., posted by bulldog2 on March 9, 2007, at 15:30:47
Maybe, it does feel mildly dopaminergic, but not to any great extent. Hard to tell really.
Q
This is the end of the thread.
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