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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 48. Go back in thread:
Posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 12:18:12
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Squiggles, posted by ronaldo on November 18, 2006, at 10:58:12
> Latest move on the Zimbabwe dollar, and what does this hold in store for the country's health service?
>Well, my naive guess would be that people's
work and productivity will be devalued and
more predatory economies will take advantage
of them?Squiggles
> http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/viewinfo.cfm?id=2632
Posted by Racer on November 18, 2006, at 13:37:30
In reply to Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowledge ?, posted by ronaldo on November 18, 2006, at 7:58:00
From reading here, I've gotten very interested in neurotransmitters -- so much so that I've started taking classes to learn more about neurochemistry. Fascinating stuff.
But I very much doubt it will do anything towards teaching me which medications will be most likely to help me.
What has been helpful to me is seeing a pattern to the drugs that have been helpful to me: they have all had significant effects on NE, along with effects on DA and 5HT. Beyond that, though, it's a crap shoot.
The new pdoc I just started seeing asked a question I'd never been asked before, though, which I thought was pretty inspired: he asked me about recreational drug use, and I told him I'd been to high school, where it was pretty much mandatory. He asked me what drugs I'd liked! He said that often told him what sorts of drugs might be helpful. Makes sense, if you think about it. "When you self medicated, what drugs did you find helpful?" Yeah, uh huh, OK, that makes sense to me. (Answers: speed and heroin. Heroin being why I stopped taking drugs -- it scared me to enjoy it, since I'd seen what it could do to people.)
As for the whole thing with doctors, it does depend on the doctor, of course, but there are a lot of doctors out there who don't necessarily seem to see an informed patient as helpful to treatment. This is an older model of psychiatry, for the most part, and it's not helpful for a lot of people like those on this board. There are, though, a lot of people walking into psychiatrists' offices who want the doctor to tell them what to take and how it's going to make them feel, who don't want to have to participate beyond taking a pill every day. It gives them comfort to think that The Doctor will make them better. It must be hard for doctors to have to adjust between the two sorts of patients, you know? On the one hand, they have to be The Doctor who is in charge; on the other, they have to avoid insulting patients like us who want to be involved. Especially when you get into the whole "is there time to see the patient AND do the paperwork for the insurance AND earn enough to pay the office staff" thing, it's got to be hard to be a doctor these days.
Then again, considering some of my own experiences with doctors, it's awfully hard to be a patient, too...
Posted by erik98225 on November 18, 2006, at 13:46:50
In reply to Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowledge ?, posted by ronaldo on November 18, 2006, at 7:58:00
> It seems to me that lots of people have questions in this forum that could have been best answered by their own doctors who wrote the prescription or made the diagnosis. Personally I often find myself left with a lot of unanswered questions about five minutes after my appointment with the doctor ended. It seems to me that we get short-changed by the medical profession.
I could not agree more, and I fired a total of SEVEN pdocs. I knew more than they did about my condition. I am currently seeing a pdoc who is a Psychopharmacologist (expert in the effect of drugs on the mind), and he's expensive but worth every penny. First pdoc I've ever seen who is open to nonconventional treatments and open to suggestions from the patient.
Erik
Posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 13:58:20
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowledge ? » ronaldo, posted by erik98225 on November 18, 2006, at 13:46:50
> I could not agree more, and I fired a total of SEVEN pdocs. I knew more than they did about my condition. I am currently seeing a pdoc who is a Psychopharmacologist (expert in the effect of drugs on the mind), and he's expensive but worth every penny. First pdoc I've ever seen who is open to nonconventional treatments and open to suggestions from the patient.
>
> ErikWell call me a tree-hugger if you like,
but I think that psychopharmacologists should
be part of the public health care system
staff - as in the hospitals to treat mentally
ill patients-- not private owners of Mercedes
SUVs, trophy wives, private school brats,
and mansions on the hill, with the left wing
turned into a private practice office, and
the right for the peroxide mistress/receptionist/secretary/public relations assistant. Oh, and did i mention the drug company perks in executive shares;Squiggles
Posted by Racer on November 18, 2006, at 13:58:36
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » ronaldo, posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 8:14:55
> I'm currently reading a book "Buffoonery", by an
> experienced and very witty nurse.I think the link should be "Sheer Buffoonery" by Nurse X?
Posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 14:00:25
In reply to Corrected link » Squiggles, posted by Racer on November 18, 2006, at 13:58:36
> > I'm currently reading a book "Buffoonery", by an
> > experienced and very witty nurse.
>
> I think the link should be "Sheer Buffoonery" by Nurse X?Yes, you are right. Thank you. Funny book :-)
Squiggles
Posted by erik98225 on November 18, 2006, at 14:06:50
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » erik98225, posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 13:58:20
> Well call me a tree-hugger if you like,
> but I think that psychopharmacologists should
> be part of the public health care system
> staff - as in the hospitals to treat mentally
> ill patients-- not private owners of Mercedes
> SUVs, trophy wives, private school brats,
> and mansions on the hill, with the left wing
> turned into a private practice office, and
> the right for the peroxide mistress/receptionist/secretary/public relations assistant. Oh, and did i mention the drug company perks in executive shares;Yeah, he makes a lot of money ($395 an hour is what... $6 million a year?), but he helps me more than any pdoc I've had in the past. My insurance pays 80% once I've satisfied the deductible (which will happen after only two visits), so he costs ME $79.00 a visit. Not unreasonable -- a trip to the local Safeway easily costs more.
Erik
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 17:01:05
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled, posted by Racer on November 18, 2006, at 13:37:30
I agree very much with your post Racer. It sounds like arrogance when I say I know more and have more experience of what works for *me* after being in treatment for seven years than my last pdoc. My last pdoc wasn't much older than myself, was a recent graduate and tried to pull some sneaky moves on me that made my hackles rise right from the start [Sure Mr. Pdoc, Zyprexa is a regular antidepressant just like Prozac.....].
Personally, I started to learn about pharmaceuticals and neurotransmitters because I was curious and at one point became so enthusiastic that (encouraged by my then wise, experienced and kindly pdoc) I decided to go back to college and train to be a doctor myself.
I am able to work together with my pdoc as a team so long as I feel the pdoc is genuine has my best interests at heart, otherwise I begin to feel like a passive victim and when the meds fail or have terrible side effects it feels much like chemical torture.I would dearly like to be able to find a pdoc that really did have some useful experience behind him, but that isn't the case where I live so I feel forced to take initiative and request my own treatments. It's worthwhile remembering not all pdocs are created equal.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2006, at 18:34:57
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled, posted by Racer on November 18, 2006, at 13:37:30
Racer are you now saying you shouldn't have blind faith in a pdoc as I started a thread on that a while back and I think you thought that the pdocs knew more than us and we should listen to them and do what they say. I stand to be corrected. And I've heard that less docs are going into psychiatry today hence the pdoc shortage. Love Phillipa
Posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 18:40:51
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Racer, posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2006, at 18:34:57
Quintal and Phillipa,
I don't know why but your threads remind me
of Plato's Euthyphro or one of his
dialogues- sort of pedagogical -- no
offense of course; Plato was a great
philosopher.As for pdocs, well, you really shouldn't
be practicing any medicine if you don't know what
you're doing, imho.Squiggles
Posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2006, at 19:51:19
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Phillipa, posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 18:40:51
Squiggles I agree with you and that's why I get annoyed when she asks me what and how much of a med I want. I don't tell her what to do. She asks me. What do you make of that? Love Phillipa
Posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 20:00:21
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Squiggles, posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2006, at 19:51:19
You may have given the impression that
you are very knowledgeable in these matters.
If you feel insecure, can you ask for
a referral to someone specializing in
say "affective disorders" or something like
that? Sorry, i've lost the thread of
what your condition is.Squiggles
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 20:03:00
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Phillipa, posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 18:40:51
Hmmmmm. You've given me food for thought Squiggles. Excuse me while I look that up on Wiki.
And to think I let my family talk me out of taking that Philosophy A-level because I would never find any use for it..........
Q
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 20:48:12
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Phillipa, posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 18:40:51
Socrates.... the philosopher who found endless fault with others to distract from his own grotesqueness?
Q
Posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 21:08:57
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Squiggles, posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 20:03:00
> Hmmmmm. You've given me food for thought Squiggles. Excuse me while I look that up on Wiki.
>
> And to think I let my family talk me out of taking that Philosophy A-level because I would never find any use for it..........
>
> Q
>
>Yeah, maybe try again --just make sure you don't pick an Ivy League university. You can get thrown
out onto a puddle of mediocrity for missing10 points on an exam after finishing most of the doctorate. Maybe try med school where you can maim and disable with a dozen medication guesses and get awarded with a prize of Excellence in art therapy for frontal lobe disorder. Of course you won't be on the receiving end.
:-)Squiggles
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 21:22:55
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Quintal, posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 21:08:57
Oh I've become much too disillusioned with Hippocratic medicine to still wish I had finished med school and become a doctor now Squiggles. I am still interested in healing people though, which was my original sense of purpose. I keep hitting that pesky old 'First, heal thyself' adage though :-)
Q
Posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2006, at 21:51:10
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Phillipa, posted by Squiggles on November 18, 2006, at 20:00:21
Squiggles she knows my family history and how meds killed my Mother so that may be one reason she lets me decide. I think she feels that if I am the ultimate decider I will be more compliant which is my main problem. Anxiety number l with depression next. Oh and now an overactive thyroid from hypo. Makes it harder. Love Phillipa
Posted by Squiggles on November 19, 2006, at 5:04:08
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Squiggles, posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2006, at 21:51:10
I'm sorry to read your mother was killed
by meds, and glad your doctor is sensitive
to that.Best wishes,
Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on November 19, 2006, at 5:18:03
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Squiggles, posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 21:22:55
You may be in the right place;
there's a lot of self-healing going on here.Squiggles
Posted by Quintal on November 19, 2006, at 13:51:56
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Squiggles, posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2006, at 21:51:10
Do you think this has made it difficult for you to trust and submit to doctors Phillipa? I wonder if something like this could be behind my own hostility since my mother suffered a lot due to the ignorance and stubbornness of her GP? After many years of suffering and humiliation this resulted in her needing drastic emergency surgery (an illeostomy) that eventually caused complications that killed her.
Maybe I should be trying to find ways of overcoming my fear and hostility, but when the last pdoc pulled the 'Zyprexa is a regular antideressant' move on me what little trust I had went out of the window.
Q
Posted by linkadge on November 19, 2006, at 17:39:01
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled » Squiggles, posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2006, at 21:51:10
I never knew that meds killed your mother, do you mean psychiatric meds? Meds have ruined my mothers life too, probably why I am afraid of them.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2006, at 19:15:34
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled, posted by linkadge on November 19, 2006, at 17:39:01
Thanks guys the reason I come here your understanding and compassion. It was cortisone in the early 60's that gave her Addisons disease which led to ortheoporosis which led to her falling on the ice breaking her back wearing a brace. Another Adrenal crisis in the hospital on ACTH and transferred to Yale this time as she wasn't responding and then she was a smoker had a cough. Were going to x-ray her in the am and she threw a pulmonary embolism that night and died at age 48. I was l7 and had already been raising myself. I swore I would be differant from my Mother so jogged took vitamins. etc. The the hasimotos and I almost threw up the first pill my body had failed me. I was just like her. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2006, at 19:22:47
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled, posted by linkadge on November 19, 2006, at 17:39:01
I feel for all of us with similar experiences I have tears in my eyes for us all. And yes it has made it very very hard to trust. Especially when the pdoc you trusted the most gets arrested for insurance fraud and illegal distribution of meds. And all his charts are seized. He's the one who put me on all these benzos and chloral hydrate(off it now) But basically made me look like an addict to other pdocs. Hence my recent experience with a pdoc refusing me. I'm not stupid I know that's why. And here I am. But you know what? I never took the doses as high as he wanted them. Thankfully. And no malpractice as it has to cause long lasting irreversible damage. Maybe it has who knows. And I'm seeing how angry I am too right now. Love Phillipa
Posted by ronaldo on November 20, 2006, at 1:18:06
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2006, at 19:15:34
> Thanks guys the reason I come here your understanding and compassion. It was cortisone in the early 60's that gave her Addisons disease which led to ortheoporosis which led to her falling on the ice breaking her back wearing a brace. Another Adrenal crisis in the hospital on ACTH and transferred to Yale this time as she wasn't responding and then she was a smoker had a cough. Were going to x-ray her in the am and she threw a pulmonary embolism that night and died at age 48. I was l7 and had already been raising myself. I swore I would be differant from my Mother so jogged took vitamins. etc. The the hasimotos and I almost threw up the first pill my body had failed me. I was just like her. Love Phillipa
Hi Phillipa
I am so sorry for all your medical problems and your late Mum's as well. I pray you will get better soon.
((((((Phillipa))))))
....ronaldo
Posted by Quintal on November 20, 2006, at 8:59:22
In reply to Re: Doctors underestimate our intelligence/knowled, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2006, at 19:22:47
I don't think anyone could blame you for being angry after all that has happened Phillipa. I know what you mean about your benzos giving the wrong impression to new pdocs - the last one I saw said he didn't believe I had social anxiety at all, implying that I was just there to get benzos and other meds for kicks. He put this in the discharge letter to my GP and she believes what he says because he is a pdoc and higher in authority than her. I'm angry too...........
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