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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by FredPotter on May 11, 2006, at 22:05:10
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by valene on May 11, 2006, at 16:56:06
>>Do not take more than 3mg if possible, less is >>much better IMO
Dear Val what is your reason for saying this? In what way is it much better? Fred
Posted by blueberry on May 12, 2006, at 5:04:51
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time? » blueberry, posted by FredPotter on May 11, 2006, at 0:10:06
I didn't actually mean to imply there was a xanax high. I mean, street people do abuse it for that purpose. So when I responded so well and so fast to it, I had to rationally ask myself if I was experiencing a high or not. As objectively as I could, I thought about it. My conclusion was that I was not high in any way. I was merely relaxed, serene, and had some renewed interest in everyday normal activities...probably from all the anxiety being lifted off my shoulders. I just felt like "me", completely normal.
But as far as feeling any kind of a high, no, that did not happen. There was no change in personality or unusual behaviors or unusual activities or drug-seeking behavior or cravings or anything like that.
Posted by valene on May 12, 2006, at 9:32:10
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time? » valene, posted by FredPotter on May 11, 2006, at 22:05:10
> >>Do not take more than 3mg if possible, less is >>much better IMO
>
> Dear Val what is your reason for saying this? In what way is it much better? Fred3mg is a rather high dosage to be on especially if you take it daily. Reports are that xanax antidpressant properties are better at the lower dosages. I find this to be true. For long term use I prefer to keep to 2mg or less.
Posted by tepiaca on May 13, 2006, at 4:26:37
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time? » blueberry, posted by FredPotter on May 11, 2006, at 0:10:06
> I've taken benzos on and off for 42 years. Xanax for about 12 years. My X use goes up and down with my mental health. There's no inexorable rise in use (in my case). You use the word "high". I don't get a high from X, never have. I think we should be careful using words like that as it encourages the anti-benzo brigade
hi , r u still on xanax or other benzo??
12 years its a lot of time on xanax ! . what was tour regular dose Did you had to increase your dose with time?? Do you have socialTep
phobia or panick attacks??
Posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 13, 2006, at 17:03:56
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time? » FredPotter, posted by tepiaca on May 13, 2006, at 4:26:37
I have been on xanax for almost 10 years.
.25 to start, and now I am on 2mg, 3 times a day.
I have never gotten high from xanax...just a relaxing effect that didaway with panic attacks and agoraphobia.
I have been on this dose for 2 years...and as of last week am slooooooowly tapering down, .5 mg every week or every other week...depending on how I feel.
I also take 100 mg of Zoloft, and aware that the 2 drugs interact with each other.I do not like the fact that I am addicted to xanax..so that is why I decided on my own to taper down. I havnt even told my MD.
I guess I want to taper so as not to need 6 mg's per day..but leave my MD out of the loop in case the going gets rough, that way I will always have a "stash" in cae of emergency.
Does that make sense?
BF
Posted by zero on May 13, 2006, at 18:06:30
In reply to Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by blueberry on May 10, 2006, at 20:19:32
Valium (20mg./day) for 10 yrs., then a 4 yr. break off all psych. meds., then Klonopin (2mg./day) for 13 yrs. (Klonopin, while not perfect, still helps my Social Phobia)
Posted by RobertDavid on May 13, 2006, at 18:39:35
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 13, 2006, at 17:03:56
I think it's smart to find and take the lowest dose that's effective regarless of what benzo you take. I think they are great medicines and there is no reason to get off from them if that's what works and relieves your anxiety. As my doctor said, it's much worse for you to be anxious and stressed out than it is to take a benzo.
They can be taken long term typically without a need to increase dose. My mentality is and what my doctor of many years told me is that "it's good for me, take it" and I do and have for 12 years. That said, I like to take the lowest dose needed which is just trial and error. I'm currently slowly going down on klonopin as I am now having success with EMSAM, but if I get to a point where the anxiety gets worse, I'll go back up an effective dose.
It's nice to know you can get off it if you want to and I have once before I think just to make sure I could. But my anxiety returned and back on it I went. I've tried xanax, klonopin and ativan and found I got the best results from klonopin. Nothing worked for me like a benzo to treat my SAD and GAD. I take it once a day at night, now down to 1.75mgs from a high of 3mgs. I think they are great meds that really help a lot of people, but some doctors are phobic about them. Anyway, just my take. Good luck. Rob
Posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 13, 2006, at 21:46:24
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time? » BUCKEYE FANATIC, posted by RobertDavid on May 13, 2006, at 18:39:35
I appreciate your post.
I guess I should clear up the fact that I have NEVER tried to ween off xananx before...so this is a first.I have stopped Zoloft before for 2 months...but never xanax.
I was thinking....what about all the people that were uprooted by Hurricane Katrina that were on xanax????????????? Without the ability to get their refills...there HAD to be some who went into seziures or convulsions during such an abrupt withdrawl.
Anyone know of anybody who went through it?
BF
Posted by RobertDavid on May 14, 2006, at 15:18:12
In reply to RobertDavid, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 13, 2006, at 21:46:24
I don't know of anyone that has ever been in a situation where they were suddenly without their med/benzo, but I'm sure it's NOT a good situation. Certainly those on higher doses would have the biggest problem.
Posted by Greif on May 15, 2006, at 21:41:46
In reply to Re: RobertDavid » BUCKEYE FANATIC, posted by RobertDavid on May 14, 2006, at 15:18:12
I have tapered off Zanax with Klon several times. Take it slow and its not bad however the undrlying anxiety returns and the last half miligram is very hard to give up. I now take 2 mg of K daily and will continue to until something better comes along. Zanax is great for occasional panic attacks. Try taking it for several years and you need 4 mg to equal what 1 did initially. K is much more benign and has little or no anti depressant effect. Many use SSRI with it. I have not felt the need to go beyond 2 sometimes 2.25 daily and an occasional Zanax when needed. I have friends who have taken a year to witghdraw from Z with Z and claimed that it was torture. Switch to Valiun or K and withdrawl is much easier. To take above 3-4 mg of Z daily is entering into the danger zone for post withdrawl syndrome.
Posted by RobertDavid on May 16, 2006, at 2:11:15
In reply to Re: RobertDavid, posted by Greif on May 15, 2006, at 21:41:46
> I have tapered off Zanax with Klon several times. Take it slow and its not bad however the undrlying anxiety returns and the last half miligram is very hard to give up. I now take 2 mg of K daily and will continue to until something better comes along. Zanax is great for occasional panic attacks. Try taking it for several years and you need 4 mg to equal what 1 did initially. K is much more benign and has little or no anti depressant effect. Many use SSRI with it. I have not felt the need to go beyond 2 sometimes 2.25 daily and an occasional Zanax when needed. I have friends who have taken a year to witghdraw from Z with Z and claimed that it was torture. Switch to Valiun or K and withdrawl is much easier. To take above 3-4 mg of Z daily is entering into the danger zone for post withdrawl syndrome.
Thanks for the impute. I was stable at 2mgs for years. Once was up to 3mgs, but found 2 worked as well and agitated my depression less. I do like the fact that it's easier to taper off of than the shorter acting benzos, but more importantly it has worked better for SAD. I do on occation take a small dose of xanax if I'm really having a bad day, but take only .25 on those occations which is rare.I'm aware that when you taper getting off the last .5mgs is the toughest. Right now I just want to go down a little then settle for a while. I think I'll sit tight at 1.5 and let my body adjust while still adjusting to EMSAM. If I continue to feel good I'll shoot for my next level of 1mg and sit there for a while and so on. I'm NO hurry to get off a drug that has help me with my anxiety greatly. My doc feels it's a 50-50 chance that EMSAM alone will work, but if not I just want to take the lowest dose of klonopin that's effective.
I did try to blend klonopin with all the SSRI's SNRI's and othe to be the "missing link" with treating the depressive side of my issues. Anxiety is by far my primary disorter, SAD in particular. Klonopin is a FABULOUS med, it least it has been for my SAD, I just needed something like EMSAM to lift my mood, clear my head and that is what has happened.
So regarless if I'm on klonpin or blending it with EMSAM I'm okay with it and happy to be functioning at such a high level for the first time. I think there will be many that find it's going to be a blend of EMSAM with a benzo that's the key, though those that are purely treating depression will probaby do well with just EMSAM as mono therapy. Well, that's my take on it anyway. Again, thanks for your impute. The more info and points of views the better. Rob
Posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 16, 2006, at 7:07:17
In reply to Re: RobertDavid » Greif, posted by RobertDavid on May 16, 2006, at 2:11:15
I need an opinion please.
I have seen many people mention Klonopin on this site. Is this a good "substitute" for xanax? I know I have read past posts that xanax has its own particuliar properties that are unique to itself. I have always taken this to mean that NOTHING can take its place....especially if you have been on my high dose of 6 mgs per day for several years.
If there are some experienced xanax to Klonopin switchers out there, I would appreciate hearing from you. It sounds like Klonopin is easier to withdrawl from that xanax, however it seems as though there is no real substitute for xanax. Why is this????????? Whats makes xanax the Mac Daddy of all Benzo's that it is extremly hard to ween from????
BF
Posted by Greif on May 16, 2006, at 7:29:08
In reply to Re: RobertDavid » Greif, posted by RobertDavid on May 16, 2006, at 2:11:15
Rob, You started taking Lyrica the same time I did a few months back. I had very similar results and discontinued use after 30 days. I read your posts and they are very insightful. I only take 7.5 mg of Lex with the K and it is a bit uncomfortable. Without it though, I become somewhat depressed. My doctor will not prescribe Emsam or any in that group. He reserve these for last resort for those that do not respond to anuthing else and are severly depressed. I suffer from GAD so he feels this is not a good option. I have followed your Emsam "diary" with great interest. I am aware thought that common benefits from K do not correlate to any other meds. Good luck to you. You provide inspriration to many.
Posted by RobertDavid on May 16, 2006, at 12:20:38
In reply to Re: RobertDavid, posted by Greif on May 16, 2006, at 7:29:08
> Rob, You started taking Lyrica the same time I did a few months back. I had very similar results and discontinued use after 30 days. I read your posts and they are very insightful. I only take 7.5 mg of Lex with the K and it is a bit uncomfortable. Without it though, I become somewhat depressed. My doctor will not prescribe Emsam or any in that group. He reserve these for last resort for those that do not respond to anuthing else and are severly depressed. I suffer from GAD so he feels this is not a good option. I have followed your Emsam "diary" with great interest. I am aware thought that common benefits from K do not correlate to any other meds. Good luck to you. You provide inspriration to many.
Before I tried EMSAM I took Lexapro and basically all the other SSRI's to try to help with a mild depression. Konopin really helped the anxiety, but not depression that seems to be a side effect of having an anxiety disorer. I went from 5 to 10 mgs of Lexapro and for me I just kind of felt numb and it didn't really lift my mood.I had better luck with a small dose of Provigil, 25 to 50 mgs. I'd say that before EMSAM that was the best option I found to give me some energy and lift mood somewhat.
EMSAM has been the missing link for me. It has done everything I wanted the other meds to do. It just may be the combo of klonopin and EMSAM, working together to deal with both anxiety, depression and mental clarity.
Anyway, it seems there are a lot of doctors out there reluctant to treat patients with an MAOI including EMSAM and I think that's to bad. They're certainly not for everyone, but I feel if a patient has been though many other meds without luck it's an option that should be considered.
Good luck to you! Rob
Posted by RobertDavid on May 16, 2006, at 12:55:36
In reply to Opinions please....What Mkes Xanax So UNIQUE?, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 16, 2006, at 7:07:17
I originally tried xanax and switched to klonopin. It just worked better for me and was my doctors idea to switch. I like the idea of the long half life which has allowed me to take one dose at bedtime. I on rare occation take a small dose of xanax say .25 to .5 mgs if I'm going to hop on a plane and want a shorter acting addition to the klonopin. I've heard it's much easier to get off the longer benzo's than xanax and ativan. I think some actually switch straight from xanax to klonopin for the purpose of an easier taper. That said, benzo's are great med's for anxiety, work quick and are probably under utilized. Rob
Posted by Phillipa on May 16, 2006, at 19:52:38
In reply to Opinions please....What Mkes Xanax So UNIQUE?, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 16, 2006, at 7:07:17
Buckeye Fan I took xanax for years but 6mg is a very high dose. Usually that requires slowly adding either valium or klonopin and using xanax for breakthrough anxiety. Klonopin depessed me valium was better. But xanax only last around four hours and valium and klonopin all day and night. I once was in detox with a girl who was taking 6mg of xanax and drinking a whole bottle of Jack Daniels every day. And she didn't feel a thing from it. Well let me tell you when they took away the booze and xanax she was a total mess. I think she was on 80mg of valium and still in bed the whole day crying shaking etc. Myself I just switched from one to the other believing what my pdoc said that a beazo is a benzo. I'm starting to believe if you believe it the med will work. Love Phillipa
Posted by Greif on May 17, 2006, at 7:24:39
In reply to Opinions please....What Mkes Xanax So UNIQUE?, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 16, 2006, at 7:07:17
http://www.benzo.org.uk is a website by Heather Ahston. I disagree with much of her subjective content. However, she has spent many years as a proffesional withdrawing benzo users. There are some excellent charts indicating relative strengths and transition from short acting benzoz to valium. I do not endorse the site but there is a lot of info there. She is anti-benzo. I believe in the UK most physicians will not prescribe benzos unless someone has been on them for years. Most MDs in the US will not prescibe Zanax for long term use. The medical community is down on benzos due to overprescibing valium in the 70s and Zanax in the eighties. I took Zanax in the eighties and as time went on every 4 hours or so I would feel the need for more Zanax due to thr short half life. Klon stayes in your system and you dont have that roller coaster effect. I may take 1/4 mg of Z/week if needed. I would never return to it though for a primary benzo. K removes all my anxiety but does not provide the elevation that Zanax does. You may need to experimetn with SSRIs or other types of ADs to find the right combo. 6mg of Z IMO is too much. You can read Ashtons manual and draw your own conclusions.
Posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 17, 2006, at 10:04:12
In reply to Re: Opinions please....What Mkes Xanax So UNIQUE?, posted by Greif on May 17, 2006, at 7:24:39
What a great Link Greif ! WOW~ This is exactley the type of site, information and support I have been looking for.Thank you so much!
I will keep you posted as to my progress and also my interaction with the Site Support Group.
BF
Posted by Greif on May 17, 2006, at 14:56:35
In reply to To Greif...thanks!!!!!!!!, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 17, 2006, at 10:04:12
You are welcome Buckeye (Iowa?). There is a link on site to her manual. Many Pdocs dont understand Xanax withrewl and try and reduce weekly. I weaned off Zanax with K and off Ativan with valium. My doctor was unaware of this method and was hesitant to prescibe valium. Keep us posted.
Posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 17, 2006, at 15:27:34
In reply to Re: To Greif...thanks!!!!!!!!, posted by Greif on May 17, 2006, at 14:56:35
> You are welcome Buckeye (Iowa?). There is a link on site to her manual. Many Pdocs dont understand Xanax withrewl and try and reduce weekly. I weaned off Zanax with K and off Ativan with valium. My doctor was unaware of this method and was hesitant to prescibe valium. Keep us posted.
Will do.
And its The Ohio State University....:DI think I remember my MD saying one time that to try and get off xananx with valium would be "trading one addiction for another"...so I bet that's his mindset...Ill see.
And your right about another thing too...the MD who originally prescribed xanax tried to ween me off 4 years ago on a weekly basis. It was killingme and he wouldnt budge, and stopped returning my phone calls and refused to write me another prescription.
Not that I go from "doctor to doctor"...I have only had him and my current MD.
BF
Posted by Greif on May 17, 2006, at 23:09:40
In reply to Re: To Greif...thanks!!!!!!!!, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 17, 2006, at 15:27:34
I am a Gopher grad....how soon I forget the mascots that were once so important to me. I brought in the Ashton manual to get off Ativan. The doctor acted annoyed and did not want to read it but agreed to allow me the choice. Ativan and Zanax weekly reduction is torture. My ears would ring and sounds would resonate through my body and mind. i could not sleep or think straight. Just when I began to feel somewhat adjusted it was time for another taper. I would end up drinking a bottle of wine every night to get to sleep. This was when I was tapering off 3-5mg of z daily for 4 years. he swithced me to K and withdrawl was not as bad but I needed the alchohol to sleep. In hindsite it was unbearable and I was at the peak of my career. I disagree with Ashton that all benzos are bad. After years of abstinace from them and alchohol, I was unable to control GAD. I tried every mood stabalizer out there with poor results. Then the Atypicals which were the worst. So I now take daily 2mg of clonzapam and feel almost no anxiety. I have never felt the need to add to it. One useful item of info I learned here is the variation of the generics. Most Pharmacys carry Purepak as the generic. It is the cheapest for health insurance to pay for. At the advise of many on this board I switched to Tiva. Its like a different med. Lasts longer and has better effect. Pdoc needs to request it. It has a different compound than Purepak and I agree with former posters, it is far superior. I now lead a normal life and can concentrate and function fime. I am grateful for K and the benefits it provides. There is a support group connected to Ashton site that are anti benzo zeolots. I would suggest not wasting time with that group. They claim that short term benzo use destroyed their lifes. I suspect is was not the benzos. I do agree that Zanax should not be prescibed to those suffering mild anxiety. There are natural ways to deal with life. Those with chronic debilitating anxiety and phobias are different.
Best wishes to you
Posted by corafree on May 19, 2006, at 10:17:25
In reply to Re: Opinions please....What Mkes Xanax So UNIQUE?, posted by Greif on May 17, 2006, at 7:24:39
>K removes all my anxiety but does not provide the elevation that Zanax does.<
K never removed all anxiety for me, but the latter rings true.
Still on Valium 10mg 3x a day since NB same time last year. Can't/wouldn't risk even titrating down a bit. NB was as near death as I want to get.
So that 'stimulation' .. 'elevation' ... give me some of that (w/o sounding like a tweaker) because I'm socially stagnant. And I mean I don't 'even care'.
Too bad Xanax cannot be 'refined'.
Norpramin (old TCAD) working well for me. Also magnesium supplement ... working well. But still that one thing is missing. And, I don't care if that thing is replaced by a 'fake/phony stimulant' ... I need to move my a** and get off the couch!
I have 'no desire', 'no drive'; not talking sexually, but 'livingly'(notaword).
I won't just take away the Valium to throw myself into motivation caused by anxiety. It would motivate me right through the hospital doors!
How do I ask my P for a stimulant? Should I 'add a dash' of Xanax? Maybe Provigil?
Trying to get to the benzo UK site. Computer hot. Will check back.
Looked over the EMSAM threads and I don't want to run out and ask for that.
One things for sure ... it's spring ... works 'against' depression. (Everything is new but me! Yikes!) It's like Christmas that lasts three months!!!
I'm just touching base here as I prepare to see my P today.
bestwishes,cf
Posted by Squiggles on May 19, 2006, at 18:19:30
In reply to Opinions please....What Mkes Xanax So UNIQUE?, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 16, 2006, at 7:07:17
I did not find withdrawing from Xanax
that difficult (3 months for 2.0mg) after
quite a few years. It does tend to deplete
in strength if you take it a long time.
But, as a benzo for acute panic - i think
it is one of the best. That may be because
it has a short half life - 2 hrs.Klonopin is an amazing drug. I have spoken
to friends who have taken it too, and you just
don't feel it when you take it and you don't
build tolerance as fast as you do on Xanax
if taken daily. However, it is one of the hardest benzos to withdraw from because it is specially manufactured for epilepsy. It is a strong anti-convulsant.So Xanax is the best for the occasional panic attack or difficult psychological situation of anxiety, but Klonopin is good for general anxiety, muscle pains, fits, and it is given to bipolars.
Squiggles
Posted by KarenRB53 on August 28, 2007, at 9:25:14
In reply to Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by blueberry on May 10, 2006, at 20:19:32
> The few times I have felt very well were with various combinations of meds, but it was always xanax that brought it all together. Xanax was the missing ingredient. It really woke up prozac and zyprexa and made me feel completely normal. Even though I always thought it would be a dopamine med that would resolve my apathetic anhedonic lack of joy lack of motivation symptoms, it was xanax that did it. It did the same when added to 5htp with zyprexa.
>
> But I only took it for a week. I asked myself if I was just experiencing a xanax high. My answer was no. I just felt normal. I was afraid of addiction and tolerance and poopout, so I never continued. Now I'm thinking about it.
>
> Has anyone used xanax for a long time? I mean, like for years? Any benzo users out there, do you think someone could take xanax and stay in the 1mg to 3mg range for years?Do you still take Xanax with Prozac and if so, what dose of Prozac do you take?
Thanks, Karen
Posted by KarenRB53 on August 28, 2007, at 9:27:30
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time? » blueberry, posted by FredPotter on May 11, 2006, at 0:10:06
> I've taken benzos on and off for 42 years. Xanax for about 12 years. My X use goes up and down with my mental health. There's no inexorable rise in use (in my case). You use the word "high". I don't get a high from X, never have. I think we should be careful using words like that as it encourages the anti-benzo brigade
Hi Fred: Do you still take Xanax and do you take it with any other meds or just by itself? My pdoc wants me to go on Xanax as no antidepressants seem to work for me.
Thanks, Karen
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