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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by strugglingsteve on December 23, 2005, at 0:12:43
I just started nardil two weeks ago and am slowly starting to gain weight. This happened on lexapro to and just wondering how others fared. Did your weight gain plateau or does it just keep on going? I have one friend who's been on it 15 years and said it eventually calmed down. So just looking for other's experiences.....
Posted by Tomatheus on December 23, 2005, at 2:43:17
In reply to Nardil weight gain, posted by strugglingsteve on December 23, 2005, at 0:12:43
Actually, I haven't gained any weight since I started Nardil 11 1/2 weeks ago (I've been at 75mg/day for the last two weeks). Not even a little weight gain. I do think that the problem of anorganisma, however, has set in. And my hypotension and urinary retention are getting worse, as well. Oh yeah, and the insomnia is horrible. I seem to feel slightly less depressed than I normally do, and even a little less depressed than I did at 60mg. I'm still not getting anything close to a robust response, though, so I'm not sure if it's going to be worth it or not. Maybe things will improve with more time and one more dose increase. We'll see.
Tomatheus
Posted by forgetful mary on December 23, 2005, at 8:00:47
In reply to Re: Nardil weight gain » strugglingsteve, posted by Tomatheus on December 23, 2005, at 2:43:17
I was able (over 20 years) to control the weight gain of nardil with diet and execise. Luckily I started out skinny so the weight gain was okay..BUT since the nardil reformulation in fall of 2003 the weight gain is worse as is the insomnia....It never used to be this way.....It sucks that they tampered with this medication!!!
Posted by gardenergirl on December 23, 2005, at 10:33:26
In reply to Re: Nardil weight gain » strugglingsteve, posted by Tomatheus on December 23, 2005, at 2:43:17
> Actually, I haven't gained any weight since I started Nardil 11 1/2 weeks ago (I've been at 75mg/day for the last two weeks). Not even a little weight gain.
That's great. I seem to start gaining again whenever I change the dose I've gone sort of back and forth between 45 and 67.5, depending on how I'm doing. I keep trying to lower, and I'm finding it's not a good idea.
>I do think that the problem of anorganisma, however, has set in. And my hypotension and urinary retention are getting worse, as well. Oh yeah, and the insomnia is horrible.
The anorgasmia tends to go away in time, about 3-4 months in my case. Although it may be different for men and women. I deal with urninary retention and the subsequent edema by occasionally taking Lasix. Come to think of it, this time at 60 mg, I'm not experiencing that. Yeah! Severe insomnia is partly why I couldn't tolerate 75 mg.
>I seem to feel slightly less depressed than I normally do, and even a little less depressed than I did at 60mg. I'm still not getting anything close to a robust response, though, so I'm not sure if it's going to be worth it or not. Maybe things will improve with more time and one more dose increase. We'll see.
Glad you're getting some response. Ace is a big proponent of going to 90 mg, so maybe that will do the trick for you. Talk to your doctor about the side effects. There may be meds to deal with those.
gg
Posted by Tomatheus on December 24, 2005, at 3:56:29
In reply to Re: Nardil weight gain, posted by forgetful mary on December 23, 2005, at 8:00:47
Forgetful Mary and Gardenergirl,
Thanks for your replies. I'll get back to both of you soon.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!
Tomatheus
Posted by gardenergirl on December 24, 2005, at 8:18:27
In reply to Re: Nardil weight gain }} forgetful mary, gg, posted by Tomatheus on December 24, 2005, at 3:56:29
Posted by Tomatheus on December 24, 2005, at 12:10:37
In reply to Re: Nardil weight gain, posted by forgetful mary on December 23, 2005, at 8:00:47
Forgetful Mary,
Thanks again for your post. As I mentioned in my previous post, my problem with insomnia has grown worse since I switched from 60mg/day to 75mg/day. Strangely, I actually feel less tired during the day than I did at 60mg/day, as long as I get at least 5-6 hours of sleep at night. But still, even when I do feel tired and/or depressed during the day and fight off the urges to nap, I still get the insomnia at night. At any rate, it's definitely nice that the daytime fatigue isn't as bad as it once was. I think the Nardil is finally starting to work for me, at least to some extent.
Having said that, I'm still not getting a robust response, and the side effects are pretty frustrating. I just wonder whether or not I might have gotten a better response at a lower dose with the "old" Nardil. Obviously, if 45mg/day or 60mg/day is all that I would need, the side effects would be less pronounced. But I am thankful that I'm getting a partial response (and I hope it lasts). I really feel for those who responded wonderfully to the "old" Nardil for decades only to have their lives ripped apart by the inconspicuous decision to change the formulation of their drug in such a way that it could no longer provide relief for them. It's difficult to imagine how painful it must have been for those individuals to work so hard to find a treatment that could finally allow them to live some semblance of a normal life, to feel capable of realizing their goals in life, only to have it all taken away by a corporate decision to cut costs on a product that wasn't producing a profit. Never mind the fact that this corporation had enough money to give its CEO a raise of $6.9 million in one year. This is a corporation that is "fundamentally about saving, improving, and enhancing lives." Or so their Web site says. Tell that to the the man (or woman) who's lost his job, his family, his mental health, and his ability to pursue happiness as he once did. Whose rights really matter?
Ok now, off of my soapbox...
Now that I've started my message on a rather despairing note, I'd like to welcome you to Psycho-Babble. I've been reading some of your messages over on the Anxiety Community's message board, and I've found the things you've said to be very informative. I know that this isn't the best time to bring this topic up, but I would like to thank you for pointing out the fact that Nardil is nowhere to be found in the 2006 edition of the Physicians Desk Reference. As optimistic as I'd like to be, this new revelation worries me. Although I can't say for sure what it means, Pfizer has already pulled enough stunts on us that I fear the worst. But maybe I should wait until I find out exactly what Pfizer is planning to do before I scare everyone too much. That's really not what I was hoping to do with this message, especially not today. Assuming that He exists, may God please help us.
And may we help ourselves. I'm actually already importing my Nardil from Australia - not because I'm preparing for the possible "end" of Nardil in the U.S., but because I actually started it by self-medicating (I am seeing my pdoc again, though). It is my recommendation to all U.S. Nardil users here to begin thinking of a contingency plan that might involve importing Nardil from outside the U.S. (remember, this could involve using a legal pharmacy that requires a doctor's prescription). I'm not saying that everyone should just switch over to an overseas version of Nardil immediately, but I think it might be a good idea to begin thinking of a plan.
Of course, the planning should be able to wait until the holidays are over (I hope). I'm sorry if I depressed anyone too much with this message. But remember, the future is not set in stone. There's hope.
Happy holidays
Tomatheus
> I was able (over 20 years) to control the weight gain of nardil with diet and execise. Luckily I started out skinny so the weight gain was okay..BUT since the nardil reformulation in fall of 2003 the weight gain is worse as is the insomnia....It never used to be this way.....It sucks that they tampered with this medication!!!
Posted by Tomatheus on December 24, 2005, at 12:38:23
In reply to Re: Nardil weight gain » Tomatheus, posted by gardenergirl on December 23, 2005, at 10:33:26
Gardenergirl,
Thanks again for your message. With each day that I've spent on 75mg, I've been realizing more and more that my condition definitely is improving, even though I'm not getting a full response. As pervasive as my depression has been for the last six years, it is sometimes easy to forget how miserable I used to feel when I wasn't taking any meds and when I was taking meds that didn't help *at all* (or made things worse). When I think about how I feel when I'm truly depressed, it becomes obvious that the Nardil is working. I'm not quite as energetic and enthusiastic about everything as I'd like to be, but I really haven't been feeling terribly depressed as of late. I've found that I've become more productive and functional as of late, and I actually don't mind feeling this way too much. Of course, I may be speaking too soon, but I think that I might be starting to feel Nardil's "true" effect instead of the startup effect that I felt immediately after switching from 60mg/day to 75mg/day. The startup effect, as I call it, has never lasted for more than two weeks after switching to a particular dose, and I've now been at 75mg for two weeks and four days. So, the response I'm getting may be the real thing, even though it's not absolutely superb.
I'll be seeing my pdoc again in another 2 1/2 weeks or so, and depending on how I feel in the time between now and then, we'll probably either keep me at 75mg or go up to 90mg. I definitely will talk to him about the increased side effects so we could discuss the possibility of using some add-on meds.
Thanks for your suggestions, and happy holidays again.
Tomatheus
> > Actually, I haven't gained any weight since I started Nardil 11 1/2 weeks ago (I've been at 75mg/day for the last two weeks). Not even a little weight gain.
>
> That's great. I seem to start gaining again whenever I change the dose I've gone sort of back and forth between 45 and 67.5, depending on how I'm doing. I keep trying to lower, and I'm finding it's not a good idea.
>
> >I do think that the problem of anorganisma, however, has set in. And my hypotension and urinary retention are getting worse, as well. Oh yeah, and the insomnia is horrible.
>
> The anorgasmia tends to go away in time, about 3-4 months in my case. Although it may be different for men and women. I deal with urninary retention and the subsequent edema by occasionally taking Lasix. Come to think of it, this time at 60 mg, I'm not experiencing that. Yeah! Severe insomnia is partly why I couldn't tolerate 75 mg.
>
> >I seem to feel slightly less depressed than I normally do, and even a little less depressed than I did at 60mg. I'm still not getting anything close to a robust response, though, so I'm not sure if it's going to be worth it or not. Maybe things will improve with more time and one more dose increase. We'll see.
>
> Glad you're getting some response. Ace is a big proponent of going to 90 mg, so maybe that will do the trick for you. Talk to your doctor about the side effects. There may be meds to deal with those.
>
> gg
Posted by Tomatheus on December 24, 2005, at 12:39:36
In reply to You too! (nm) » Tomatheus, posted by gardenergirl on December 24, 2005, at 8:18:27
And my replies came sooner than expected.
Tomatheus
Posted by ed_uk on December 24, 2005, at 17:43:41
In reply to Thanks ... » gardenergirl, posted by Tomatheus on December 24, 2005, at 12:39:36
Hi T
No Nardil in the PDR? How depressing. Most docs know little or nothing of Nardil - except that they probably have a strongly negative attitude towards it. That is, if they have heard of it at all.
My pdoc claims that he's never 'needed' to 'resort' to an MAOI. What about all his severely depressed, severely anxious patients who aren't doing well on other meds huh? The fact is, he knows NOTHING about MAOIs. He wouldn't be capable of prescribing one.
Nardil keeps getting 'passed about' in the UK. Pfizer haven't had anything to do with it for a long time. I wonder who'll be making it next year? Concord are making it at the moment. I expect that Nardil will remain available for several more years in the UK. Parnate will probably be discontinued fairly soon in the UK, IMO.
Regards
Ed
Posted by Tomatheus on December 26, 2005, at 18:18:16
In reply to Re: Thanks ... » Tomatheus, posted by ed_uk on December 24, 2005, at 17:43:41
Hi Ed,
My responses to various threads from your post are below.
> No Nardil in the PDR? How depressing.
Yeah, it's definitely quite depressing. Even though I currently order my Nardil from Australia (with my pdoc's approval), I really worry what this is going to mean for my fellow Nardil users in the U.S. I have little doubt that there are plenty of Nardil users here in the states who rely on public aid to cover their medications and would have no way of affording the costs of ordering Nardil from an overseas pharmacy. Pfizer has already disrupted so many lives (well, maybe not "so many" people overall, but perhaps hundreds (?) of suffering souls whose human rights are anything but insignificant) with the formulation change that they pulled off two years ago that it is doubtful that the well-being of those who do respond well to the "new" Nardil (still a relatively small group of people) matters much to them. Maybe Pfizer decided not to submit any Nardil-related information to the publishers of the PDR because they're considering reviving the "old" formulation. Such an explanation is within the realm of possibilities, but then again, but I think the odds of that happening are just as good as the odds that Tom Cruise will decide to see a psychiatrist and start taking psychoactive drugs. To put it mildly, I'm very concerned about Nardil's future here in the U.S., and so I definitely think that all Nardil users here should begin developing contingency plans that can be acted upon immediately in the event that Pfizer decides to discontinue Nardil altogether.
But enough rambling. I'm sorry that I had to deliver such depressing news to my fellow Babblers on Christmas Eve. Every now and then, I think about some of the gifts I've given to others and wonder how I could have given such terrible presents (this isn't the case with most presents I give, but occasionally, it is). But even though I've given people some bad presents in the past, I think it's clear that the "present" that I gave to the Nardil users on this board two days ago is the worst present I've ever given to anybody, hands down. Unfortunately, the news of Nardil not being included in the PDR had to reach this site eventually, and I ended up being the one to blurt it out.
> My pdoc claims that he's never 'needed' to 'resort' to an MAOI. What about all his severely depressed, severely anxious patients who aren't doing well on other meds huh?
That's a good question. Apparently, the mental health of his treatment-resistant patients doesn't qualify as one of his needs.
> I expect that Nardil will remain available for several more years in the UK.It's good to hear that it's probably less endangered in the U.K. than it is in the U.S., even though it seems that doctors there are even less willing to prescribe Nardil than they are here. Of course, there are undoubtedly some Nardil responders over there in the U.K. who might not ever be able to achieve a clinically significant state of remission with any other drug. So, even the prospect that Nardil might be removed from the market in a few years is upsetting.
> Parnate will probably be discontinued fairly soon in the UK, IMO.
My statements above about Nardil responders also apply to Parnate responders. Using the word "upsetting" to describe how I feel about the discontinuation of Parnate is grossly inadequate. But it'll have to do (my use of the word "upsetting," that is, not the removal of Parnate from the British market).
Tomatheus
Posted by sdb on December 28, 2005, at 15:17:24
In reply to Re: Thanks ... » ed_uk, posted by Tomatheus on December 26, 2005, at 18:18:16
hi
During my approx. four weeks trial of phenelzine I only experienced some more need to eat sweet things. It did not result in weight gain. I had no direct weigth gain with phenelzine.
sdb
Posted by Nardil on December 30, 2005, at 7:53:32
In reply to Re: Nardil weight gain (poss. trigger) » forgetful mary, posted by Tomatheus on December 24, 2005, at 12:10:37
I'm on 90 mg Nardil and am gaining at a rate of 50 lbs/year! I was 127 lbs, now 170. What to do?
This is the end of the thread.
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