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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by chess on October 19, 2005, at 16:02:08
does xanax being a triazolo-benzodiazepine mean that it is better for anxiety/panic because it works better to suppress the fear centers of the brain (especially the amygdala) than regular benzodiazepines like clonazepam, or do triazolobenzodiazepines (xanax) have the same effect on the amygdala as benzodiazepines (clonazepam)?
Posted by Phillipa on October 19, 2005, at 19:34:52
In reply to benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopin?, posted by chess on October 19, 2005, at 16:02:08
Xanax is the drug of choice for panic attacks. Only problem is benzophobic docs. And klonopin is really an anticonvulsive used for seizures in higher doses. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by med_empowered on October 19, 2005, at 20:12:40
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopin? » chess, posted by Phillipa on October 19, 2005, at 19:34:52
Xanax **is** a good benzo--the problem would be if the person also had generalized anxiety; in those cases, multiple doses are required per day, so tolerance develops and there's anxiety in between doses. For generalized anxiety disorder that sometimes features panic attacks, a longer-acting benzo is probably a good idea...Klonopin is the "it" benzo right now, but I think most people would do better on Valium or Librium. Klonopin has "mood-stabilizing" properties (basically, it can help with (hypo)mania while you're waiting for the mood-stabilizer to kick in, and it can defuse potential mood episodes), so its a good call if you're bipolar, schizoaffective or whatever. Ideally, though, Klonopin would be the **last** of the benzos to try for anxiety; it can induce/worsen depression and has weird effects on other drugs and weird side effects (funny colored urine, hair growth/loss, etc.).
Posted by Phillipa on October 19, 2005, at 20:30:07
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopin?, posted by med_empowered on October 19, 2005, at 20:12:40
Glad to see someone agrees with me. I hated klonopin. But in all the years I took xanax I never felt the need to increase my dose. It just started making me tired instead of relieving anxiety. Now valium is what I'm now on and interestingly I'm developing tolerance to it. My pdoc added trileptal today. Do you think it will work? What type of side effects can I expect? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by glenn on October 20, 2005, at 8:15:23
In reply to benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopin?, posted by chess on October 19, 2005, at 16:02:08
Interesting idea which would fit with my experience.
All the other benzos did nothing or made me worse, xanax however seems a perfect fit.
My major symptom was fear - of nothing in particular, but everything -
Xanax once a day for short periods works a treat.
I had no panic attacks, trembling, depression or related symptoms - "just" terrible fear.Valium made me sweat and tremble and palpitate, librium made me not want to get out of bed.
Thank heavens for xanax !
By the way , meditation, exercise, herbs etc also did nothing.
Glenn
Posted by Declan on October 20, 2005, at 15:01:32
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopin?, posted by glenn on October 20, 2005, at 8:15:23
What about Xanax XR? Hard to get? Any good? Might be better for depressed and anxious people than Valium?
Declan
Posted by sdb on October 20, 2005, at 15:12:08
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopin?, posted by glenn on October 20, 2005, at 8:15:23
Hi Glenn,
Do you take the Xanax Xr or the normal Xanax?
What dosage are you on (mg daily/splitted)?~sdb
Posted by FredPotter on October 20, 2005, at 16:58:18
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi {{glenn, posted by sdb on October 20, 2005, at 15:12:08
I read everyone saying how Xanax is great for anxiety. It doesn't really cut it with me, but I suspect it works for panic - I haven't had a panic attack for a long time
Posted by maddy4 on October 20, 2005, at 19:04:20
In reply to benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopin?, posted by chess on October 19, 2005, at 16:02:08
i take both - just started klonopin - so dont really know - i guess it builds up in your system for a continual anxiety relief thing and xanax is more as needed. xanax acts faster /w ears off faster ....klonopin kicks in slower and acts longer
Posted by glenn on October 21, 2005, at 5:37:52
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi {{glenn, posted by sdb on October 20, 2005, at 15:12:08
Hi,
I take straight xanax , the dose varies between 0.25 mg and 0.5 mg.
I have to say that one dose appears to last 24 hours for me, maybe I am just a slow metaboliser of xanax , or then again my symptoms were very strange so maybe it was treating a different system than the usual Gabaergic one ?!
It is also interesting that when I researched my problem, it appeaered, as far as I could tell to be linked to the Amygdala , just as the first poster mentioned.
Kava Kava , valerian, passiflora etc did absolutely nothing good but gave me wierd side effects ( Kava couldn't think properly, valerian postural vertigo)
So it did not seem to be a straight Gad or panic disorder problem.
Hope this is useful.Glenn
Posted by med_empowered on October 21, 2005, at 5:48:20
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi {{glenn, posted by glenn on October 21, 2005, at 5:37:52
hey glenn. benzos are interesting b/c although they're regarded as being strictly anti-anxiety, they have lots of other effects, too. There are some studies showing that benzos help people with schizophrenia (one study I read from the 70s used valium as MONOTHERAPY for schizophrenia; the doses got up into the 100s of mgs/day, but there was a much greater reduction in tension and improvement in overall quality of life than you'd see with neuroleptics), schizoaffective, bipolar, and severe depression. Xanax has anti-depressant effects that can be comparable to antidepressants...in addition, it can reduce the anxiety and tension associated with schizophrenia, while Klonopin is preferred for schizoaffective and bipolar disorder, and Ativan is best used for psychosis and mania. So...it could be that you're dealing with a form of anxiety that really has a mood-based component thats mild enough for the xanax to help with. Or maybe you just don't fit into the DSM-IV (I don't either; all my various DX's are NOS--Mood Disorder NOS, Bipolar NOS, etc.).
Posted by ed_uk on October 21, 2005, at 14:18:46
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi {{glenn, posted by med_empowered on October 21, 2005, at 5:48:20
Xanax doesn't help my anxiety. It's a very effective hypnotic though! Valium helps my anxiety somewhat.
~ed
Posted by sdb on October 21, 2005, at 14:36:09
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi {{glenn » med_empowered, posted by ed_uk on October 21, 2005, at 14:18:46
ed: Did you take the xr or common version of Xanax (dosage)?
I have never taken a lot of xanax xr. Diazepam has some pleasant muscle relaxant (which would be not bad for me) but also sedating effects before further metabolism. With diazepam I have some cognitive difficulties, too tired to concentrate and so on. There is Ketazolam as a good alternative, only a bit of the primary substance is metabolized to diazepam the rest directly into active n-demethyl-metabolites.
~sdb
Posted by ed_uk on October 21, 2005, at 15:51:39
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi {{glenn, posted by sdb on October 21, 2005, at 14:36:09
Hi S,
I took standard alprazolam. I tried various doses: 0.25mg, 0.5mg, 1mg, 2mg and 3mg. The lower doses caused cognitive impairment but didn't reduce anxiety. High doses were very sleep inducing.
Diazepam is a useful drug when severe physical tension is present.
~ed
Posted by sdb on October 21, 2005, at 16:07:17
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi {{glenn » sdb, posted by ed_uk on October 21, 2005, at 15:51:39
Hi ed!
When I took 1.5mg Xanax Xr it seemed only to sedate me a bit but I took it only once so I am not experienced with Xanax.
Diazepam is very effective perhaps for occasional use against anxiety but I could never be on that drug every day.
Some postulate Xanax should be like alcohol thus antidepressant, stimulating, antianxiety...I honestly can not believe that after I took one tablet or my system is different.
Bye the way, where have you read clonidine will poop out by time(I think absolutely possible)?
~sdb
Posted by ed_uk on October 21, 2005, at 16:42:37
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi }} ed, posted by sdb on October 21, 2005, at 16:07:17
Hi S,
>stimulating
I didn't find Xanax stimulating at all!
>Bye the way, where have you read clonidine will poop out by time(I think absolutely possible)?
When used to treat PTSD, it seems to poop out quite fast :-( It does have a prolonged antihypertensive effect though.
Kind regards
~ed
Posted by Phillipa on October 21, 2005, at 17:11:21
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi }} ed, posted by sdb on October 21, 2005, at 16:07:17
sdb, Why couldn't you be on valium everyday? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by sdb on October 22, 2005, at 2:29:01
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi }} ed » sdb, posted by Phillipa on October 21, 2005, at 17:11:21
Dear Phillipa,
I think Valium would be too sedating for me.
When I took it I barely stand up in the morning and was not able to function normally troughout the day.~sdb
Posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2005, at 17:22:26
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi }} ed » sdb, posted by Phillipa on October 21, 2005, at 17:11:21
sdb, Boy I really must be tolerant of it then. I take l5mg at nighttime and it doesn't even touch me. Maybe I need to go into detox. But klonopin is equal to so much more valium. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by CK1 on October 22, 2005, at 18:19:56
In reply to Re: benzos and the brain: xanax vs klonopi }} ed » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2005, at 17:22:26
P,
15mg isn't too bad. Don't worry. 15mg Valium = 1.5mg Klonopin. 1.5 Klonopin is slightly high (most people can get by with .25-.5 2x day) but some people are taking up to 5-6mg.
Sorry to hear that your pdoc won't give you extra Valium :( I think she's right. You don't want to start taking higher doses because getting off benzos makes getting off SSRI's look like a walk in the park. P, if you find something that really "kicks in" or "clicks" for your anxiety, I think it will work better for you than Valium. Benzos are AWESOME drugs but when an SSRI or other drug really "clicks" it blows the benzos away.
This is the end of the thread.
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