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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 48. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
Apathy. Numbness. Worthless. These are some of the factors that have kept me confined to my bed. I have no energy, yet I can't sleep. I just stare at the walls. I can't read or watch TV. I just look at the walls and the ceiling. I keep hoping I will feel something. I will cut sometimes to make sure I am real and still here. I am not crying anymore. I force myself out of bed to check my emails since it is some form of contact with the outside world. But even that exhausts me. So I retreat to my bed. Wish I had a laptop.
Has anyone else had this kind of depression? What got you out of it?
Sloth.
Maxime
Posted by Declan on October 16, 2005, at 23:55:41
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
Jean Rhys novels aren't bad for that. "Goodmorning Midnight". She spent a lot of time paying attemtion to the wallpaper. Which reminds me of Oscar Wilde's last comment on that before he died. 'My wallpaper and I are fighting a duel to the death. One of us must go.' Anyway Jean Rhys dealt with a lifetime of what would be called mental illness here, and turned it into 6 or so books. They're not happy, of course, but I loved them.
Declan
Posted by CK1 on October 17, 2005, at 0:04:42
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
Maxime,
You seriously need to find a way to get back on Adderall XR. That would help with the apathy, boredom, and possibly the depression. FORCE YOURSELF to get a job, no matter what kind of job it is. You need to work so you can pay for your meds! There are lots of depressed people who are going to work. In my case, I get more depressed when I'm not doing anything. I am taking a full courseload in college and, if I wasn't doing that, I'd feel totally worthless! Maybe if you were employed again and making a little money, you'd actually feel better because you didn't have as much time to sit around and think about your depression. If you have nothing else to think about besides your depression, that's not going to help things. Obviously, nothings going to help except the right meds, but you at least need to try to "get out there" and start living! Easier said than done.............
BTW, Your posts really make me feel bad for you. I wish I could give you med advice from my limited knowledge, but you said you've tried every single drug out there. I think you need to stop trying to rely on meds as the "only answer" and try to incorporate some form of "therapy/will power/?" into your recovery.
I hate seeing people suffer! And I hate suffering myself too :)
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on October 17, 2005, at 0:13:53
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
just as you did not get into this situation overnight, you will not get out of it in the same rapid speed.
baby steps. that is what worked for me. since you said you did not have a portable, you got out of bed to use the computer. thats a small step, but still a step. smalls steps add up over time.
add another goal today. and another one the day after. find something to think about other than yourself. (it's hard for me).
and finally, hold onto the FACT that there are ppl in here that have been in the same situation as you or worse. they got out of it and you can to. HOPE, HOPE, HOPE!
Posted by Maxime on October 17, 2005, at 0:14:48
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by Declan on October 16, 2005, at 23:55:41
I love the Oscar Wilde quote. :-)
Maxime> Jean Rhys novels aren't bad for that. "Goodmorning Midnight". She spent a lot of time paying attemtion to the wallpaper. Which reminds me of Oscar Wilde's last comment on that before he died. 'My wallpaper and I are fighting a duel to the death. One of us must go.' Anyway Jean Rhys dealt with a lifetime of what would be called mental illness here, and turned it into 6 or so books. They're not happy, of course, but I loved them.
> Declan
Posted by emme on October 17, 2005, at 6:23:18
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
Maxime,
Low dose selegiline (5-10 mg) has yanked me out of some pretty immobile states. Quickly - like within a day. If I recall, the costs of meds are an issue for you. Even if you could only afford a short course of it, it might give you a boost while you work on figuring out other options. I'm sorry I can't recall exactly what you're taking, so I don't know if it would be contraindicated for you.
emme
Posted by ed_uk on October 17, 2005, at 13:53:04
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
Hi Maxie,
Did you discuss which meds your pdoc would be willing to import from the UK? Sulpiride is not your only option!
Love ed xx
Posted by Declan on October 17, 2005, at 13:57:11
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
I spent a few days certainly on (if not in) the bed (because my wife had made it I guess) and after day 3 managed to organise myself into the car early in the morning and climbed this mountain that takes 4 or 5 hours. Anyway that worked for me, I felt so good after.
I can get somewhat detached just putting everything off and watching the parade of thoughts and the ceiling. Sometimes I try to resolve it by getting hold of a book that's more depressing than I am. I have a library of them. Lots on the former USSR. "Blood and Oil" by someone or other at the moment. But when things are bad for me Stalin's a good shot.
Declan
Posted by Phillipa on October 17, 2005, at 18:56:21
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by Declan on October 17, 2005, at 13:57:11
Maxime, I've been out of town. And I see nothing has changed. I was forced to be in the "real world" for 5 days. And it wasn't easy and I had to take more valium to sleep at night. But I had to get up as we will be moving and I had to get furniture and pretend to my Daughter That I was still functional. And she's going through a divorce and living in same house with husband. Talk about stress. But I made it and from knowing you and your volunteer work from the past. Could you try and do something like that again? How about a crisis line from home? Just an idea. Talk is cheap. I should be doing the same thing. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Camille Dumont on October 17, 2005, at 19:25:44
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
Sounds silly but it worked wonders for me. It forces me to get up and go to work because they need me. While I have yet to find a reason to live for me, in the interim, they are my reason to keep going on. Pets are also fun to watch, are happy most of the time and ready to play with you or just cuddle with you whenever you want.
Posted by med_empowered on October 18, 2005, at 3:59:50
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Phillipa on October 17, 2005, at 18:56:21
I guess...you could first accept what you're feeling. Fighting it--thinking "oh, I shouldn't be doing/feeling this" or "I **should** be doing/feeling this"--is only going to make things worse. Then, try to divert your attention--to TV at first, maybe later reading, writing, etc. Then try to focus on what it is in your life you *do* like--what your value are, what your personal strengths are, what your goals are. Try to focus on those, and creating an existence that kind of conforms to those (ex: i like kids--pursue training in childcare). Reach out to other people--it may be hard at first, but social interaction is **vitally** important, and the more engaged you can get with other people then (eventually) the better you'll feel. I find that one thing that helps is to flip the question around. For instance...instead of "I want to kill myself" (and I think we've ALL thought that one a bunch of times), I try to ask myself "why HAVEN'T I killed myself?" Its like the logotherapy technique..figure out what's important to you, whats keeping you going, and then try to work on accentuating that instead of foucsing on your pain. Also, like I said..sometimes, for me at least, its best to accept a certain amount of suffering; I find that, increasingly, the best thing (again, this is for **me**) is to focus not so much on **feeling** better but on **doing** better. So...I can focus on being more productive, or being more assertive, or accomplishing goal X...whatever. It engages my mind, produces results (which boosts mood and self-esteem), and jumpstarts the healing process for my underlying problem. For some people, having the right med(s) is important, but its also important to remember that human suffering and misery has been around for as long as people have existed. Prozac, valium, adderall--these are all **very** recent arrivals on the scene. They can make things easier, but the meds aren't going to really "fix" anything--its best to put faith in one's self, not one's prescriptions. Good luck!
Posted by tecknohed on October 18, 2005, at 7:53:45
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
In drug rehab, they taught us many tricks and methods for dealing with depression, alot of which involved starting with very basic stuff.
One of these that works for me (when in your situation) is to choose a colour, and glance around the room counting as many objects in that colour as I can find. Repeat with other colours/shapes. Even though it seems ridiculous and pointless at first, the distraction can help to refocus your thoughts and bring your mind to the present. I think there's also a theory that the eye movements help to stimulate parts of the brain too.(?) Anyway, I've often found this enough to snap me outa that trance - its all about 'starting the ball rolling'.Another thing that has worked for me (and others I think) when feeling like you do, is to skip sleep for a night. Might sound hard to do if you're tired, but when you get your 'second wake' its surprising how refreshing you can feel, with results sometimes lasting many days.
Finally, about something else you mention, heres a link you might like to read:
http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/self.html
Well, I hope find some relief soon. It was 2 days ago you first posted, how do you feel now?
Teck.
Posted by ed_uk on October 18, 2005, at 16:22:48
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by tecknohed on October 18, 2005, at 7:53:45
Hi Kev :-)
What drug were you being rehabilitated from?
~Ed
Posted by tecknohed on October 18, 2005, at 18:36:06
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » tecknohed, posted by ed_uk on October 18, 2005, at 16:22:48
> Hi Kev :-)
>
> What drug were you being rehabilitated from?
>
> ~EdHi Ed!
I say Rehab, it was actually an outpatient alcohol treatment clinic. Still, it was intensive, long term and group based - essentially rehabilitation.
So of course, alcohol was what got me in there, for a home detox. But in my mind, Everything I learned in there was applied to my drug use too. I also used to be a chronic amphetamine (and whatnot) user/abuser.Teck.
Posted by 4wd on October 18, 2005, at 22:28:08
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
> Apathy. Numbness. Worthless. These are some of the factors that have kept me confined to my bed. I have no energy, yet I can't sleep. I just stare at the walls. I can't read or watch TV. I just look at the walls and the ceiling. I keep hoping I will feel something. I will cut sometimes to make sure I am real and still here. I am not crying anymore. I force myself out of bed to check my emails since it is some form of contact with the outside world. But even that exhausts me. So I retreat to my bed. Wish I had a laptop.
>
> Has anyone else had this kind of depression? What got you out of it?
>
> Sloth.
>
> MaximeOh Maxime, I am so sorry you are feeling this way. There is a poem by Coleridge that kind of describes it "Dejection: An Ode" or maybe "Ode to Dejection"
Do you ever get to the point of feeling so horrible that you cry uncontrollably? Sometimes that helps me. To just let go, feel as horrible as I possibly can, think I can't go on, surrender to it and let it have me and think I can't bear it. After an hour or so of weeping (and praying) I will drag myself up from the floor, make myself take a shower and realize I have found some small measure of relief. I'm not there right now , I"m feeling okay at this moment but that has worked a little bit in the past.
How do you think you would feel if you were on no meds? Could you feel worse than you do? Starting with a clean slate and all that? Shock the system? I don't know. I don't have the experience that others here have with meds - I can only offer empathy and share in your sorrow.
Love,
Marsha
Posted by fuchsia on October 18, 2005, at 23:38:12
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by Declan on October 16, 2005, at 23:55:41
> Jean Rhys novels aren't bad for that. "Goodmorning Midnight". She spent a lot of time paying attemtion to the wallpaper.
I agree. I loved that book. I had a Jean Rhys fad several months ago and I think I read all of them.
Posted by fuchsia on October 18, 2005, at 23:58:42
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
> Has anyone else had this kind of depression? What got you out of it?
I've had that kind of depression (but without the cutting impulse). When people say a job will help I don't think they understand how physical it is.
I just pop out of it sort of randomly but predictably because I'm rapid cycling. I wish I could suggest something useful.
If there is any sunlight I do sometimes drag myself out onto a blanket and sit on it for half and hour.
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:05:48
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Phillipa on October 17, 2005, at 18:56:21
I'm glad you made it.
Usually I can force myself. Push and push and push. But this time I have no push left. I have tried and I keep landing on my face. If I do have moments where I can get stuff done it's sending out resumes.
But no bites yet. I don't even think I can handle a job right now. But usually it's the one thing that keeps me going.
If I could eat a bit more it would help. But that's easier said that done.
It's really bad.
Hugs,
Maxime
> Maxime, I've been out of town. And I see nothing has changed. I was forced to be in the "real world" for 5 days. And it wasn't easy and I had to take more valium to sleep at night. But I had to get up as we will be moving and I had to get furniture and pretend to my Daughter That I was still functional. And she's going through a divorce and living in same house with husband. Talk about stress. But I made it and from knowing you and your volunteer work from the past. Could you try and do something like that again? How about a crisis line from home? Just an idea. Talk is cheap. I should be doing the same thing. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:08:04
In reply to Get a pet from a shelter, posted by Camille Dumont on October 17, 2005, at 19:25:44
> Sounds silly but it worked wonders for me. It forces me to get up and go to work because they need me. While I have yet to find a reason to live for me, in the interim, they are my reason to keep going on. Pets are also fun to watch, are happy most of the time and ready to play with you or just cuddle with you whenever you want.
It's not silly at all. In fact I do have a pet but had to leave her with my mother when I moved. No pets allowed for now. She is a lovely lab and I miss her so much. Hopefully I will be able to get her back again soon.
Pets have been proven to help with depression and anxiety.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:11:10
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by med_empowered on October 18, 2005, at 3:59:50
Thanks. You make a lot sense. This will be very hard for me as I am my own critic. I have zero self-esteem.
But you have given me some actual things I can try. I have never believed that meds are the answer ... especially when they never work.
Thanks again.
Maxime
> I guess...you could first accept what you're feeling. Fighting it--thinking "oh, I shouldn't be doing/feeling this" or "I **should** be doing/feeling this"--is only going to make things worse. Then, try to divert your attention--to TV at first, maybe later reading, writing, etc. Then try to focus on what it is in your life you *do* like--what your value are, what your personal strengths are, what your goals are. Try to focus on those, and creating an existence that kind of conforms to those (ex: i like kids--pursue training in childcare). Reach out to other people--it may be hard at first, but social interaction is **vitally** important, and the more engaged you can get with other people then (eventually) the better you'll feel. I find that one thing that helps is to flip the question around. For instance...instead of "I want to kill myself" (and I think we've ALL thought that one a bunch of times), I try to ask myself "why HAVEN'T I killed myself?" Its like the logotherapy technique..figure out what's important to you, whats keeping you going, and then try to work on accentuating that instead of foucsing on your pain. Also, like I said..sometimes, for me at least, its best to accept a certain amount of suffering; I find that, increasingly, the best thing (again, this is for **me**) is to focus not so much on **feeling** better but on **doing** better. So...I can focus on being more productive, or being more assertive, or accomplishing goal X...whatever. It engages my mind, produces results (which boosts mood and self-esteem), and jumpstarts the healing process for my underlying problem. For some people, having the right med(s) is important, but its also important to remember that human suffering and misery has been around for as long as people have existed. Prozac, valium, adderall--these are all **very** recent arrivals on the scene. They can make things easier, but the meds aren't going to really "fix" anything--its best to put faith in one's self, not one's prescriptions. Good luck!
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:13:55
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by tecknohed on October 18, 2005, at 7:53:45
Thanks for the ideas. I feel worse than I did two days ago. I feel more like a failure. I feel really weak physically which is from limiting my food intake. It's really all my fault. I shouldn't even be complaining. I have brought it all on upon myself.
Maxime
> In drug rehab, they taught us many tricks and methods for dealing with depression, alot of which involved starting with very basic stuff.
> One of these that works for me (when in your situation) is to choose a colour, and glance around the room counting as many objects in that colour as I can find. Repeat with other colours/shapes. Even though it seems ridiculous and pointless at first, the distraction can help to refocus your thoughts and bring your mind to the present. I think there's also a theory that the eye movements help to stimulate parts of the brain too.(?) Anyway, I've often found this enough to snap me outa that trance - its all about 'starting the ball rolling'.
>
> Another thing that has worked for me (and others I think) when feeling like you do, is to skip sleep for a night. Might sound hard to do if you're tired, but when you get your 'second wake' its surprising how refreshing you can feel, with results sometimes lasting many days.
>
> Finally, about something else you mention, heres a link you might like to read:
>
> http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/self.html
>
> Well, I hope find some relief soon. It was 2 days ago you first posted, how do you feel now?
>
> Teck.
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:19:49
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by 4wd on October 18, 2005, at 22:28:08
Last week there were tons of tears. Now I am not crying at all anymore. I don't feel anything. My face is void of expression.
But as I responded to some posts prior to yours, I realised that this is all my fault. I am restricting my food too much so naturally my depression is going to get worse. I have no energy.
I stopped taking my AD 3 days ago but have remained on the mood stabiliser because I will go through withdrawal.
And I keep thinking that it CAN'T get any worse. But you know what? It can and it does. So I don't know how far down the black I am going to go. I would like to stop now please.
Maxime
> Oh Maxime, I am so sorry you are feeling this way. There is a poem by Coleridge that kind of describes it "Dejection: An Ode" or maybe "Ode to Dejection"
>
> Do you ever get to the point of feeling so horrible that you cry uncontrollably? Sometimes that helps me. To just let go, feel as horrible as I possibly can, think I can't go on, surrender to it and let it have me and think I can't bear it. After an hour or so of weeping (and praying) I will drag myself up from the floor, make myself take a shower and realize I have found some small measure of relief. I'm not there right now , I"m feeling okay at this moment but that has worked a little bit in the past.
>
> How do you think you would feel if you were on no meds? Could you feel worse than you do? Starting with a clean slate and all that? Shock the system? I don't know. I don't have the experience that others here have with meds - I can only offer empathy and share in your sorrow.
>
> Love,
> Marsha
>
>
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:25:18
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by CK1 on October 17, 2005, at 0:04:42
I wrote a long post to you but accidently checked off "no message" ... moron. I can't even re-write it now. I don't remember what I wrote.
All I know is that I have tried to get "any"
job and no one will hire me. I have dummed down my resume for them and still they say I am overqualified. Then I use my regular resume and I can't find a job. I can't take it!Maxime
> Maxime,
>
> You seriously need to find a way to get back on Adderall XR. That would help with the apathy, boredom, and possibly the depression. FORCE YOURSELF to get a job, no matter what kind of job it is. You need to work so you can pay for your meds! There are lots of depressed people who are going to work. In my case, I get more depressed when I'm not doing anything. I am taking a full courseload in college and, if I wasn't doing that, I'd feel totally worthless! Maybe if you were employed again and making a little money, you'd actually feel better because you didn't have as much time to sit around and think about your depression. If you have nothing else to think about besides your depression, that's not going to help things. Obviously, nothings going to help except the right meds, but you at least need to try to "get out there" and start living! Easier said than done.............
> BTW, Your posts really make me feel bad for you. I wish I could give you med advice from my limited knowledge, but you said you've tried every single drug out there. I think you need to stop trying to rely on meds as the "only answer" and try to incorporate some form of "therapy/will power/?" into your recovery.
> I hate seeing people suffer! And I hate suffering myself too :)
Posted by ed_uk on October 19, 2005, at 13:42:37
In reply to side track » ed_uk, posted by tecknohed on October 18, 2005, at 18:36:06
Hi!
Did you drink alcohol to self-medicate your social anxiety?
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on October 19, 2005, at 13:43:42
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » tecknohed, posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:13:55
Hi Maxie,
Have you called your old pdoc yet to ask which meds he will help you to import?
~ed xxx
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