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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 11:26:24
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 9:39:23
"Would you just say NO to aspirin if you had a headache?" YES I have very often.... "Would you say NO to a cast if you broke your arm?" ..I juts got out of cast from BROKEN HAND and never took any of the percocets an dtrust me there was pain!! I had to haveit rebroke and manipulated break was that bad :( Why would you say NO to certain ADs if they help to pull you out of the depths of severe depression - possibly brought on by a chemical imbalance? BECAUSE I NEEED to know if I can cope with out...I used to have daily anxiety attacks prior to 3 weks ago and ironically that is exactly when i told a doc NO to effexor..IRONIC or Empowerment?? Trsut me my depresson and anxiety WERE and sill may be bad..I still have trouble leaving house BUT I DO it eventually.. But really the empowerment bit comes from my therapist..he says when i told the DOC no to meds I took control and decided on something..which is empowering instself...(FYI Decisions are very hard for me)..
Is it really impossible to beat this without meds? That is depressing alone to me becuase I a not sure I will ever say yes to them.
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 12:15:48
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 11:26:24
> "Would you just say NO to aspirin if you had a headache?" YES I have very often.... "Would you say NO to a cast if you broke your arm?" ..I juts got out of cast from BROKEN HAND and never took any of the percocets an dtrust me there was pain!! I had to haveit rebroke and manipulated break was that bad :( Why would you say NO to certain ADs if they help to pull you out of the depths of severe depression - possibly brought on by a chemical imbalance? BECAUSE I NEEED to know if I can cope with out...I used to have daily anxiety attacks prior to 3 weks ago and ironically that is exactly when i told a doc NO to effexor..IRONIC or Empowerment?? Trsut me my depresson and anxiety WERE and sill may be bad..I still have trouble leaving house BUT I DO it eventually.. But really the empowerment bit comes from my therapist..he says when i told the DOC no to meds I took control and decided on something..which is empowering instself...(FYI Decisions are very hard for me)..
>
> Is it really impossible to beat this without meds? That is depressing alone to me becuase I a not sure I will ever say yes to them.Yes, you can 'cope' without them and be miserable in the process. Why? For what gain? Just to say you had the personal 'empowerment' to do so without chemicals? Everyone is different and their tolerance for pain - be it physical or mental - varies. I can't answer that question for you. But what if your depression and anxiety is truly related to a chemical imbalance that can't be fixed without an offset of the correct man-made chemicals? How does empowerment fix that? Could my low testosterone improve on it's own? Absolutely not. All the personal empowerment in the world will not change that fact. Sure, I could have continued living without the injections and have a much lower quality of life. No sex life, continued loss of bone and muscle mass. But for me, outside help seemed to be a reasonable solution with no negative side affects. I had to have external assistance. I believe our brain is no different. Sometime the level of the normal chemicals it produces are not enough. It needs help. Maybe just in the short term too - to help get us beyond the affects of external forces, pressures, stresses and other life situations that place our chemical levels at risk. And we do scientifically know that can be placed at risk.
No, it's not impossible to beat depression w/o meds, but I for one believe that God gave doctors the brains(no pun intended) to help heal people and chemists compounds to help heal people too. To take your argument to it's logically conclusion would suggest that we don't do anything, or take anything for pain, or whatever might ale us. Just exist. Just endure. Just 'buck up' and try to solve our problems on our own - without intervention.
Believe me, I share your pain and the affects depression can have on our lives. I wouldn't be in this forum if I didn't. And sometimes just knowing other people are experiencing the same pain lets us know we're not alone in our struggle or quest to find an answer and somehow make it better - even if incrementally better over time.
redjr...
Posted by jadedmystry on May 17, 2005, at 12:16:59
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:44:58
> Hi Jaded,
>
> I've also been to a therapist twice now. Have another appt with her in about two weeks. Other than the Effexor XR, just stayed home for 3 weeks, and did some walking a few times a week.
>
> Really was great to get away from work for awhile. I work in I.T., and I find that depression and anxiety and stress had really badly effected my concentration, memory, and ability to retain info. I was increasingly feeling like I couldn't do my job, and was more and more reclusive after work. I really was at the end of my rope, and something had to give.
>
> Today was first day back to work. I'm still not really feeling up to it. I'm hoping the Effexor will kick in. Think this is day 20, but only day 5 on 150 mgs. I definitely had a fair bit of anxiety today at work. Felt fine once I left. If I can just get somebody to pay me for not working, I think I'll have this depression thing licked :-)Hi Sabino,
Hey thank you for the honesty, it just feels good to have someone who understands where I am at right now. I saw a therapist today, I liked her, which is saying alot for me. I think she could really show me how to help myself.
I have been taking walks as well, but I find myself doing more sitting and watching life unfold around me than anything else. Sometimes I feel so apart from it all, and I am not sure how to get back to just being me again. I don't even know what being me means anymore. WHOOPS! True confession time, just unloading, feel pretty emotional today.
Anyway, I am going to take it a day at a time and just do what I can for today, and worry about tommorow....well..tommorow :)
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:51:18
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 12:15:48
Ok I understand and YES my threshhold for pain is abnormal...I have cried daily foryears before and did nothing..Now I am in therapy and it seems to work though I may be fooling my therapist not intentianlly ..but I am like that in a way that I may appear so collected to the outside yet inside dying with sadness..
I really wish I knoew if I NEED to take meds to LIVE ...if so then I better do some rethinking..but I can not get past the med thing ..SO does this leave me STUCK? with a life full of ailments?? FYI th ebroken hand was a result of my rage :(
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 12:51:48
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:54:46
Sabino,
Yea, the Cymbalta doesn't seem to have the same effectiveness as Effexor, and the sexual SE are about the same. I'll stay on the Cymbalta for about 10 more days when I see my GP. Did you have the same sexual SE on Remeron? My GP says that's what she will switch me too, because it's not as bad in that area.
Gauging by other posts, my depression is fairly mild - in fact mood stabilizers might be more of what I need right now. It's the insomnia that's killing me.
In fairness, my job that requires I travel every week provides for little consistency when it comes to the same bed every night. Gosh I miss that! So, life on the road just adds to the insomnia dilemia. I just haven't been able to find a good and effective way to shut down my mind in the evening. It's like the energizer bunny. It just keeps going and going and going.... I might try Lunesta when I talk to my GP.
Fondly,
redjr...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:56:11
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » Sabino, posted by jadedmystry on May 17, 2005, at 12:16:59
"Anyway, I am going to take it a day at a time and just do what I can for today"...I take it one hour at a time a day is too long...As for being ME..well I used to Do everything now I do nothing ..well I am in graduate school with honors but thats how i think i divert my attention..I really have issues leaving the house ..I am an attractive gurl but I always get whta I call "srtuck in the mirror" where i attempt to get ready to go do something even go to supermarket..but then i look in mirrror and I am like uhhh not tday ..anyone else get that way? I also think the isolation makes things worse..but cant shake it..at least not yet...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:57:40
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » Sabino, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 12:51:48
"It's like the energizer bunny. It just keeps going and going and going" ..What has produced that the Effexor??
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 13:18:27
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:51:18
"...I really wish I knoew if I NEED to take meds to LIVE ...if so then I better do some rethinking..but I can not get past the med thing ..SO does this leave me STUCK? with a life full of ailments?? FYI th ebroken hand was a result of my rage :( "
StayceeIB,
Another point worth mentioning is that untreated depression can often lead to a self-feeding downward spiral to an abyss that then can be very hard to climb out of. Whatever we believe about the merits of ADs, we simply can't afford to let ourselves go that far, in that direction.
I've said it hear before, that I believe ADs can assist in leveling the playing field for some with severe depression and anxiety that would otherwise leave them more vulerable to the self-fulfilling downward spiral. If the ADs help lift our spirits, elevate our mood a bit, or just help us make it off the sofa, then all the better. Maybe they(ADs) would make it possible to call a friend, take a walk, ride a bike, or just take a drive. The more we're with friends, or doing something enjoyable, the more upbeat we tend to be. And that helps fight the negative influence depression has on our psyche.
In my opinion, life it just too short to let pass by without some degree of personal enjoyment and fulfillment. This is not a dress rehearsal. We don't get another chance. We have to live today. We don't have to commit to a lifetime of ADs. But, they are worth a try. As we get feeling better, we can cut back or ween ourselves off until the symptoms return.
redjr..
Posted by jadedmystry on May 17, 2005, at 13:29:57
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:56:11
> "Anyway, I am going to take it a day at a time and just do what I can for today"...I take it one hour at a time a day is too long...As for being ME..well I used to Do everything now I do nothing ..well I am in graduate school with honors but thats how i think i divert my attention..I really have issues leaving the house ..I am an attractive gurl but I always get whta I call "srtuck in the mirror" where i attempt to get ready to go do something even go to supermarket..but then i look in mirrror and I am like uhhh not tday ..anyone else get that way? I also think the isolation makes things worse..but cant shake it..at least not yet...
OH WOW, can I relate to stuck in the mirror. I feel like it is to much for me to venture out anywhere. I go grocery shopping, and it becomes an ordeal, just because of the time it takes me to prepare myself mentally to go out. The only time I don't stress is when I walk. Even though I am alone, just the walk, the peace I feel, is really helpful. I am alone, but not isolated. It is the best I can do right now.
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 13:31:58
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:57:40
> "It's like the energizer bunny. It just keeps going and going and going" ..What has produced that the Effexor??
No, not in my opinion. While the Effexor may have aggrevated it a bit, it's not responsible. This has been a life-long problematic issue of mine since I was a teenager. I can remember rolling things over in my mind the moment my head hit the pillow. Till do! Like I said, I just can't turn it off.
And I have tried everything suggested from the medical community - short of checking into a sleep lab. I don't drink caffeine anymore, minimize my sugar intake late in the day, don't exercise in the evening, and try not to get into any heavy, thought provoking conversations in the evening as well. Anything that would destract my mind from falling asleep. But alas, none of that seems to have helped much.
redjr...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 13:56:16
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 13:31:58
the constant thinking NEVER ENDS for me..I even solve bolena algebra problems in my sleep.. THINK THJINK THINK it never ends..did not know that was part of depression... just thought i was a thinker...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 14:02:32
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » StayceeIB, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 13:18:27
I think I spiralled out and have been cimbing out of it in the last year...ITS HARD but I am determined.. but you seem to make a great case for meds..just wish I had a prescribing doc that would focus on me NOW not the past..if i sit and decibe the past I end up with depakote RX ..clearly I do not need that ..my therapist thought I may have ADD sent me to a shrink and he gave me the RX for effexor..u have read the reast and now I just take ativan when i need it yet I really have not taken much in last three weeks...I just wantto be able to DO things ..like driv eto my moms without fear of TRUCKS on turnpike..etc ..i dont drive more than 10 miles anymore cause it gets too dangerous when i panic...But mind you it was only 8-10 years ago i was driving coast to coast and up and down the midatlantic by myself I used to FEARLESS noww oh so fearful! yettttt knoing that meds are coming closer I am getting better tryin to do it on my own...But I am not 100% sure I wll succeed though I think I can and I see the positive thinking has gotten m,e further then beliveing that a pill that i wont take is the only answr
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 15:14:57
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 13:56:16
> the constant thinking NEVER ENDS for me..I even solve bolena algebra problems in my sleep.. THINK THJINK THINK it never ends..did not know that was part of depression... just thought i was a thinker...
I'm not sure it can be solely attributed to depression. Some people, as you said, just think alot - myself included. I'm more inclined to believe it's a form of mental obsessive complusive behavior (OCB) and to a lesser extent maybe related to having a Type A personality. But what do I know! In any event, it can be a source of extreme frustration when you're trying to go to sleep.
Lately, when I'm home on the weekends, I've gotten my wife to give me a good neck, shoulder and back rub after getting into bed. That seems to help relax me and makes it a little easier to relax my mind. She's such a good woman.
redjr..
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2005, at 17:39:43
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » StayceeIB, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 15:14:57
I sure can relate to the constant thinking. I am constantly being told by my husband and others to stop worrying and just relax. Everything will be alright. But my little mind can find l000 reasons why it won't be and is very negative. I also feel like I have to be perfect and please others all the time. And as far as driving distances, or going to stores, or even people's houses, I just want to crawl into a hole. I keep on trying but no med seems to help. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Sabino on May 17, 2005, at 17:45:55
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » Sabino, posted by jadedmystry on May 17, 2005, at 12:16:59
Well, honest am I. Liked your 'I'll worry about tomorrow' line. Reminds me of Scarlett O'hara in Gone With The Wind.
Today would have been my second day back at work. I actually went in, but my anxiety was off the charts. I'm just not ready for that yet, so I left. Sorry to bum you out if you were looking for hope. I do retain hope that Effexor might work. I do feel better than when I first started it, and I'm only on it for 3 weeks now (6 days at 150 mgs.) So, it may well still work. I forget how long you've been on Eff XR. Maybe we can compare notes as we go along?
Best Wishes...
Posted by Sabino on May 17, 2005, at 17:59:09
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » Sabino, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 12:51:48
Redjr,
I had no sexual SE's from Remeron at all. I liked it for awhile, but did not ultimately achieve remission with it. I like Effexor so far (in spite of the fact I had severe anxiety at work today).
For you, Lunesta or Ambien might do the trick. I'm certain that Remeron, and from what I've heard, Trazadone would for sure give you a good night's sleep. You know, if you liked Effexor's AD effect, but could not handle the sexual SE's and the insomnia, perhaps combining Effexor with Remeron would effectively cancel out each other's negatives. Dr. Steven Stahl recommends it as one of his 'heroic combos'. I bought his book Essential Pharmacology of Depression and Bipolar disorder.
I myself, had some leftover Remeron (in the shoebox of shame) from a long time ago, and have been taking a little bit for sleep. It helps.
Anyway, just something to consider. When I saw my pdoc, I had actually brought the book in with me, seeking his okay to take the Remeron for sleep. It was concealed under a little fleece jacket. Anyway, he proceeded to bring out his own copy of it and tell me about the possibility of great synergy. I never even showed him my book.
Hope you find a good solution.
Posted by redjr on May 18, 2005, at 8:54:16
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » redjr, posted by Sabino on May 17, 2005, at 17:59:09
Sabino,
That's good to know about the combo of Effexor and Remeron. I'll have to mention that to my GP. Also good to know about the book. I may want to pick it up. I have used Ambien in the past with limited success. It seems I always wake up about 3:00 though. I need something that will let me sleep through the night. According to the ads, Lunesta sounds like it may work for me, but I'll just have to try it. If I can convince my GP to add Remeron to the mix maybe I won't need an additional sleep aid. I hope not!
Don't feel guilty about your 'shoebox of shame'. Mine happens to be a bag in the closet. I think we'd all rather not be taking so many drugs, but I simply refuse to feel bad when I know there are things that will help me feel better - especially when it comes to getting a good nights sleep. That's the one thing I crave the most.
Anyway, I'll keep you posted when my meds change and the success I'm having - or not having.
redjr...
Posted by Emmi on May 22, 2005, at 9:53:34
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks off Effexor - joint pain » Janie, posted by winddancer on April 17, 2005, at 22:20:20
Thank GOD someone mentioned joint pain and muscle soreness. I thought I was losing my mind.
My Doc has been ordering my meds from pharmacy.ca. They can make any med in any quantity so we're diminishing effexor by 10mg at a time. I was at 150 and finally am down to 65 mg. Once I hit 85mg, I thought I had lock-jaw! the tension!! Next came sore neck, sore knees (can no longer scrouch down to play with my puppy) then sore shoulders etc etc. Is this normal and will it go away once the effexor is out of my body??I need to have a physical exam and I'm afraid my family doctor will chalk all this up to Effexor when maybe somehting else is going on. Who knows..maybe its arthitis or something. I'm pretty scared. I'm only 40 years old and have been in excellent physical condition. No I cam hardly go for walks it hurts so much.
Can anyone tell me if this goes away? Also, I'm thinking of reducing 10mg after two weeks at each level rather than doing one month at each new level.
I just want this stuff OUT of me!Emmi.
Posted by Emmi on May 22, 2005, at 10:22:08
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks off Effexor - joint pain » Janie, posted by winddancer on April 17, 2005, at 22:20:20
Thank GOD someone mentioned joint pain and muscle soreness. I thought I was losing my mind.
My Doc has been ordering my meds from pharmacy.ca. They can make any med in any quantity so we're diminishing effexor by 10mg at a time. I was at 150 and finally am down to 65 mg. Once I hit 85mg, I thought I had lock-jaw! the tension!! Next came sore neck, sore knees (can no longer scrouch down to play with my puppy) then sore shoulders etc etc. Is this normal and will it go away once the effexor is out of my body??I need to have a physical exam and I'm afraid my family doctor will chalk all this up to Effexor when maybe somehting else is going on. Who knows..maybe its arthitis or something. I'm pretty scared. I'm only 40 years old and have been in excellent physical condition. No I cam hardly go for walks it hurts so much.
Can anyone tell me if this goes away? Also, I'm thinking of reducing 10mg after two weeks at each level rather than doing one month at each new level.
I just want this stuff OUT of me!Emmi.
Posted by SLS on May 22, 2005, at 10:25:22
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks off Effexor - joint pain » winddancer, posted by Emmi on May 22, 2005, at 10:22:08
You might want to post your question on the "Withdrawal" board. There are people there whom can aid you with suggestions and shared experiences.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/
- Scott
Posted by jubilee on May 22, 2005, at 13:46:25
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks off Effexor - joint pain » winddancer, posted by Emmi on May 22, 2005, at 10:22:08
I found effexor to be highly addictive mentally and physically.
It took me 5 months to go off
I suggest going off when you have the most effexor possible and go real slow as I cut my 300 mgs in half and then went down 20 mgs every week or 2 . The point is to start quiting with as much as possible so you can go slow and not get so sick. Effexor destroys thee liver and is very poisonous I feel.Beg your doc to go off slow but most MDs think they know it all and slow is best .
I was enraged for 5 months or 6 and crying and mad. Wouldn't know a true feeling if I had one almost lost all my friends.
Good Luck seek God to get you through as he was my answer to the gentalist wway you can get off it. Gods is moved by prayer and youre gonna need it . Trust me , he cares for you and will see you through. Jubilee
Posted by jessek82 on May 23, 2005, at 22:26:28
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I was prescrbed effexor for GAD. Started out on the 37.5 dose and after three days can't hang any more. I had blurred vision, increased anxiety, and poor circulation in my feet. I'm 23 and perfectly healthy otherwise so I think it's safe to say any one starting effexor should be careful and watch out for potentially dangerous side effects. I'm sure it works for some, but I'd rather take xanax any day.
Posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2005, at 22:45:15
In reply to My Effexor experience, posted by jessek82 on May 23, 2005, at 22:26:28
I lasted a week. Felt like a space cadet. I liked the xanax better too. Now it doesn't work so I take valium. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Mick3000 on May 25, 2005, at 18:34:49
In reply to Re: My Effexor experience » jessek82, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2005, at 22:45:15
> I lasted a week. Felt like a space cadet. I liked the xanax better too. Now it doesn't work so I take valium. Fondly, Phillipa
My experience with Effexor was the same. It took 7 to 10 days and then I felt great, no space out, didn't feel like talkin the first 7 days, tired then after that it worked extremely well. You do have to get thru the first side effects to see if it is for you tho.Good luck. Maybe you can try again.
Posted by haddsl on May 26, 2005, at 12:02:30
In reply to JUST STARTED TAKING EFFEXOR XR, posted by TANYA on January 14, 2000, at 10:48:44
> Hi, I have just started taking effexor xr and I have only been on it for 3 days. I had been suffering from mild depression and sleeplessness. My dr. has also given me tryodozone for sleeping at night. it really helps and I wake up feeling refreshed after sleep. I don't have much of an appetite which to me feels good because I need to loose some weight. The only concern that I have is that I get severely tired during the day when taking the effexor xr the dr. said he wants me to take it during the day so that it will give me energy, but i haven't experienced that yet. I know it's only been 3 days, but am worried that I don't want to feel this exhausted during the day while taking it. Did anyone else experience this and if so how long before it went away?
> thanks,
> tanya
Hi I was on Cymbalta and it was making me super wired at night and tired all through the day. I was thinking that with it taking that long to kick in, take it at night. Then you might be able to sleep at night and be wired during the day. I am supposed to start Effexor XR 75MG today but I wanted to read about it first. Has anyone noticed how long it takes for it to wire you after taking it?
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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