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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 52. Go back in thread:
Posted by not2late4u on January 25, 2005, at 13:30:36
In reply to Re: Aaron, posted by FaithT on January 25, 2005, at 7:41:23
Aaron, I agree with Faith, as I said before you, our doctor, family and God know you better than we do. I'll post later tonight further about tapering from 75mg. Please be sure to talk to your doctor before tapering off and be sure to do it when you are ready. Its ok to stay on it for as long as you and doctor feel its necessary. You will have our support. God bless,Renee. p.s. I'll keep in touch.
Posted by dancingstar on January 25, 2005, at 16:34:18
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~ » SLS, posted by FaithT on January 25, 2005, at 10:50:55
Am I misunderstanding the trial for efficacy to be based on four-week studies?
I surely hope that no doctor that I go to would base their decision to give me a medication based on such limited evaluation of a drug, an evaluation that does not include all of the possible side effects that begin to become apparent only after someone has taken a drug for three months, six months, or maybe even a year.
In some of the links I have posted doctors have found that Prozac only helps marginally in assisting patients to stop taking Effexor without having exteme pain. Some say that over 60 percent of their patients have trouble when they stop taking it. Some say that some of their patients will have to take it for the rest of their lives. I've previously posted those links.
Posted by FaithT on January 25, 2005, at 18:26:26
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by SLS on January 25, 2005, at 13:13:22
Scott, I thought that the studies you presented were great.... In regard to the other poster, there are a ton of long term studies out there that I could post, showing duration of 6 months or longer. When I have a moment, I'll link to them for others to read if they wish.
Basically, a patient needs to be his or her own advocate with ANY medication prescribed, from an anti-biotic to an anti-depressant. I have yet to find one medication to date, that is the perfect or magic pill, with no side effects. I think that it's up to the patient to be informed, and weigh the options before they put ANY drug in their mouth. In my opinion, Effexor is no worse than MANY other drugs out there, and is BETTER at treating clinical depression than alot of the SSRI's.
In 2002, when I was put on this drug, the hand out that I received from my pharmacy, and that I read, stated that blood pressure should be regularly monitered, and liver function blood work checked. There is nothing hidden about this, and it also stated information regarding withdrawing from the drug. The withdrawl information on ALL of the SSRI's and SNRI's was updated since then, to include the withdrawl syndrome that can occur with MANY of the anti-depressants on the market. It is not unique to Effexor alone, although the withdrawl is hard. I did it myself, as I perviously stated, and it can be done.
Although, complications are rare, they can happen, just like alot of other drugs on the market. For instance, the warning for Wellbutrin, heavily realtes to seizures, occuring on the drug and during withdrawl. Anyone can go online and find the same information.
I have been monitered for 2 1/2 years now on Effexor, safely at 187.5 mg. So technically, I am one, in a long term study, with good results.
Best wishes to you and thanks again for your input,
Faith~
Posted by dancingstar on January 25, 2005, at 22:16:11
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~, posted by FaithT on January 25, 2005, at 18:26:26
I may not be terribly educated, but I sure do understand this link:
Posted by FaithT on January 25, 2005, at 23:40:58
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~, posted by dancingstar on January 25, 2005, at 22:16:11
As stated in the link~
"Yes, people will change doctors because some doctor had the nerve to punish them with Effexor (venlafaxine hydrochloride). Yet for many people it is a godsend, because the combination of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake is literally just what the doctor ordered for the darkest of depressions. "
Excellent link...It does explain Effexor very well, and the Author is able to see both sides, positive and negative, such an important factor as with any med.
Posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 0:19:58
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~, posted by FaithT on January 25, 2005, at 23:40:58
*These studies can all be found on Pub-Med*Venlafaxine ER in adult outpatients with
generalized social anxiety disorder ~October 2004. In this placebo-controlled, multicenter, randomized, double-blind trial, 272 individuals with generalized social anxiety disorder received either a flexible dose of venlafaxine ER (75 to 225 mg/d) or placebo for 12 weeks. The study found that, "Venlafaxine ER was statistically significantly more effective than placebo as demonstrated by the Liebowitz Social Anxiety Scale total scores at weeks 4 to 12...Adverse events were similar to those reported in studies of venlafaxine ER in depression and generalized anxiety disorder. Venlafaxine ER was safe, well tolerated, and efficacious in the short-term treatment of generalized social anxiety disorder."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Efficacy of Venlafaxine ER in patients with social anxiety disorder: a comparison with paroxetine:August 2004. In this double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel-group study, 434 adults with generalized social anxiety disorder (SAD) were randomized to receive capsules of venlafaxine ER 75 mg to 225 mg/day, paroxetine 20 mg to 50 mg/day, or placebo for 12 weeks. The study concluded that, "Treatment with venlafaxine ER was associated with significantly greater improvement than treatment with placebo for all efficacy variables. No significant differences in efficacy variables were observed between the venlafaxine ER and paroxetine groups. The week 12 response rates were 69%, 66% and 36% for the venlafaxine ER, paroxetine and placebo groups, respectively. Both active treatments were generally well tolerated and were associated with a similar incidence of adverse events. This study shows that venlafaxine ER is an effective, safe and well-tolerated drug treatment for SAD."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Venlafaxine compared with SSRI’s ~May 2002. This analysis of 32 randomized trials found that Effexor was significantly more effective than SSRI antidepressants, but not tricyclic antidepressants.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Remission rates during treatment with venlafaxine or SSRI’s
July 2001. This analysis of 8 randomized, double-blind studies, concludes that venlafaxine resulted in better outcomes than treatment with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). 45% of the patients taking venlafaxine experienced remission from depression, compared with 35% of those taking SSRI’s and 25% on placebos.
Posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 0:40:06
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~, posted by FaithT on January 25, 2005, at 18:26:26
HiFaith I wanted to support you and to reinnerate a previous post of mine that I read in my moms medical/pill book that was publised in 1995 the possbile side effects and cautions of withdraw. IN 1995! So, it doesnt sound like a big secret to me that is just breaking news.
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 0:40:39
In reply to Re: Some Positive Studies of Effexor XR~, posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 0:19:58
The reason that I don't find the 12-week studies to be as valuable as, for example, studies that last for six months or one year is because many of the problems that people have with Effexor don't tend to show in the first few months.
Some, of course, do. Those people know that they are having trouble with the drug and hopefully stop taking it. Other people don't develop problems until they have been taking Effexor for six months and longer, which is why those of us that say that the problems are slow and silent are so concerned. Mostly people can't see or feel the problems as they happen.
For some reason it has been harder for me to locate studies lasting longer than 12 weeks.
I haven't personally seen data for people taking Effexor over one year. Most interesting of all would be the data for two and three years because I believe that is the highest period so far of off-lable use of Effexor.
Posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 0:48:00
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~, posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 0:40:06
Jeez I just re-read my post, it sure didnt come out right! It doesnt sound like breaking news that there are possible side effects and withdraw, because it was published way back in 1995, thats what I meant....sorry, Im going to fast here! Renee
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 0:49:51
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by SLS on January 25, 2005, at 10:00:18
The British Journal of Psychiatry (2001) 178: 234-241
© 2001 The Royal College of PsychiatristsRemission rates during treatment with venlafaxine or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors
MICHAEL E. THASE, MD
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic, Pittsburgh, PAA. RICHARD ENTSUAH, PhD and RICHARD L. RUDOLPH, MD
Clinical Research and Development, Wyeth-Ayerst Research, Philadelphia, PA, USA
Correspondence: Michael E. Thase, Professor of Psychiatry, University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic, 3811 O'Hara Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15213-2593, USA
Declaration of interest M.E.T. is a paid consultant to Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories, the employer of A.R.E. and R.L.R.
Hmmm...Let me see if I can read this properly: "DECLARATION OF INTEREST M.E.T. IS A PAID CONSULTANT TO WYETH-AYEST LABORATORIES, THE EMPLOYER OF A.R.E. AND R.L.R."
Did I get that all right?
Posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 1:41:26
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by Aaron Uyanik on January 25, 2005, at 5:40:40
Aaron, you asked about withdrawing from 75 mg. Again, when you and/or your doc thinks it the right time. Ask his advise but remember what you 've read here too. There is alot of good information. When I got to the 75mg, I stayed at that dose until I felt stable, then I went to 37.5 mg until I felt stable. (now you might need to do 37.5 one day then 75mg the next and switch back and forth until you feel stable) Then 37.5 mg until you feel stable. Then what I am doing now is 37.5 every other day. When I feel Im stable, I will be off for 2 days then take 37.5 then off again for 2 days until I feel stable. This is what I am doing, its what is working for me and is what my Psych suggested. Go at your own pace, dont get in a hurry, thats when you could find yourself sick. Keep up with my thread as I continue to post my progress. And you'll read that others like Faith that were successful. Keep in mind, I am taking Klonopin to help along the process. YOu may or may not need any other medication to help you, your discussion with your doc can help you determine that. It may be easier to withdraw from a lower dose too. But it depends on your body chemistry and how long you've been on it too, I would suppose. Either way, take it slow, listen to your body and you know, pray and thank God for his help. God bless and good night. Renee. p.s. let us know how you are doing.....
Posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 1:45:55
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by SLS on January 25, 2005, at 10:00:18
Scott, If i didnt already reply to you, I think your great. keep posting, we need your help. Im still figuring out how to maneuver amongst all this babble, so if this was duplicated, sorry! Renee
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 2:51:56
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 1:45:55
Well, I just love links, love to read them, love to post them for you all to read them, too, but I must be tired cause I had one heck of a time trying to post the information that I wanted you to see...so I'll have to post the whole darn site, and you can just read through it at your leisure.
The thing that I find really interesting is that -- and again, it's about 12:40 a.m., and I'm a little wiped, no more chronic fatigue for this little chicky -- but anyway, please notice that the only positive articles or research about EffexorXR seems to be written or produced or done or funded by Wyeth-Ayerst. Now, like I say, I'm tired; so surely I must be wrong about this. Truly, though, on this whole big important website -- well, really there were only three pages devoted to the subject -- it looked like there was research that said that it was possible that Effexor(XR) could be okay but that further testing was necessary to find out cause they weren't really sure or, in other words, the jury was out...and it looked like the positive, just the simply positive stuff was put out only by Wyeth.
Someone show me where I am reading this wrong because I think I must wrong about this one. Surely, there has to be one positive conclusive independent study that I missed. They say right in the body of each study who it was sponsored by, and I know it must be just cause I'm wiped that I missed it.
Posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:01:03
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~, posted by dancingstar on January 25, 2005, at 22:16:11
> I may not be terribly educated, but I sure do understand this link:
>
> http://www.crazymeds.org/effexor.htmlI am not terribly educated either. I hope you don't hold that against me. The cognitive impairments produced by depression forced me to discontinue college before graduating. Since then, depression has pretty much caused me to discontinue life.
As it says somewhere on this website, it is not a good idea to necessarily believe everything you see on the Internet. While much of what the site you cited is true, the facts are cleverly organized and not complete. The agenda of the authors is obvious. They wish to portray psychotropic drugs as being scourges and unnecessary.
Do you believe that antidepressants are unnecessary?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:15:45
In reply to ...a mere clarification? » SLS, posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 0:49:51
>
> The British Journal of Psychiatry (2001) 178: 234-241
> © 2001 The Royal College of Psychiatrists
>
> Remission rates during treatment with venlafaxine or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors
> MICHAEL E. THASE, MD
> University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic, Pittsburgh, PA
>
> A. RICHARD ENTSUAH, PhD and RICHARD L. RUDOLPH, MD
>
> Clinical Research and Development, Wyeth-Ayerst Research, Philadelphia, PA, USA
>
> Correspondence: Michael E. Thase, Professor of Psychiatry, University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic, 3811 O'Hara Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15213-2593, USA
>
> Declaration of interest M.E.T. is a paid consultant to Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories, the employer of A.R.E. and R.L.R.
>
>
> Hmmm...Let me see if I can read this properly: "DECLARATION OF INTEREST M.E.T. IS A PAID CONSULTANT TO WYETH-AYEST LABORATORIES, THE EMPLOYER OF A.R.E. AND R.L.R."
>
>
> Did I get that all right?
Hi.
Good work.I was waiting to see how long it would take you to identify this as a confounding factor in considering the believability of the articles. See, you don't have to be "educated" to be intelligent and continually learning despite the absence of a degree. I hope I'm a good example of that.
The original studies that were used to pool the analases were NOT funded by Wyeth. However, once the results were produced and interpreted showing the superiority of Effexor to the SSRIs, Wyeth quickly took advantage of this by providing the investigators to perform the meta-analasis.
It is a true shame that the most formidable of our clinical researchers no longer remain with universities and government institutions exclusively. Money does talk. So do the numbers in this study.
- Scott
Posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 7:24:27
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:01:03
Scott~
Again, thanks for your input and help. I'm not on any kind of a mission here, and I found my way to the Effexor posts at the top of the page, by accident.
Then I found myself frustrated by what I was reading,as it seems there is a constant debate, much like is occuring on this thread. So, Dr. Bob suggested that myself and others with positive experience post away to balance the negative.
Once again, I am not saying that Effexor is without side-effects or withdrawl. I AM saying that is does help people, and not everyone experiences the bad. For some, it is a life saver, such as myself.
Thanks Scott....
Faith~
Posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:27:46
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 2:51:56
Hi.
> but anyway, please notice that the only positive articles or research about EffexorXR seems to be written or produced or done or funded by Wyeth-Ayerst.
This not at all true. How did you come to this conclusion? I hope you are taking into account more medical literature than the single one I supplied in a single post. It is just the single largest multi-center comparison between venlafaxine and SSRIs.
Here's another one (no Wyeth)
- Scott
Posted by Aaron Uyanik on January 26, 2005, at 8:37:08
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:27:46
Dear Renee
Thank you so much for that information its what i have been looking for. You have indeed been a great help an i will keep it in mind for future reference. I also keep you posted in my progress when the time comes for me to taper down. I will have you and others on this post in my prays. I am so glad that there are fine people like yourselves who take there time in order to help others. Again thank you very much and god bless.
P.S Hope you or anyone else will be there to support me when the time finally comes.
Posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 8:40:24
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~, posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 0:40:06
Hi Renee~
Very cool, and thanks for the support and information!!
Hugs, Faith~
Posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 8:43:40
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by Aaron Uyanik on January 26, 2005, at 8:37:08
Hi Aaron~
Ofcourse we will be there for you. I already went through the withdrawl, although I did choose to go back on Effexor, about 4-5 months later...My own choice, nothing to do with any lingering drug effects.
Please feel free to Babble-Mail me, if you need any help,o.k.?
Hugs, Faith~
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 10:41:41
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:27:46
As it happens, Scott, I am familair with Ms. Gutierrez, who for your information, works with veterans at USC. All she has done in this instance is to summerize literature that has been previously published on Medline in order to reach her conclusions. Unfortunately, she hasn't done her own research when she published this paper; so it is useless garbage as so much of the rest of the material on that site.
Worse yet, she may be responsible for thousands of young men returning from Iraq routinely being given Effexor unnecessarily. I certainly hope that this is not so, but it has been rumoured that our serviceman may routinely receive this drug on return from their tours of duty. That would indeed be a shame.
If you are the same Scott that has taken the drug for nine years and you are taking it with your full knowledge and consent, that is fine for you. But it is not fine for people to be plyed with a drug that they know nothing about that is potentially very harmful.
I am not saying that I do not believe in antidepressants. I am saying that I believe in truth in advertising. I have a real problem with the deception behind what has gone on here.
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 11:06:08
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:27:46
Actually, I went through each of three pages of posts related to Effexor but very briefly. Today I don't have time to do it. They were either summaries of Wyeth's info, in which case were positive, info by Wyeth, or if from independent sources, posted as inconclusive. I believe that I've told you in the past, Scott, in a private email a few months ago, that the jury is truly out on the efficacy of Effexor, though I do believe that it does well in the first six months or so of use. After that period of time, I am not convinced that it continues to be effective. And the side effects that morph could potentially be a problem for many people and have obviously been.
That's why I would truly love to see really good data. I don't think it's out there to be seen by the general public.
C'est ca.
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 11:14:37
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:01:03
Actually, I'm not sure that's true about this site. Have you been through the whole thing? Have a good, long look. It's kind of funny when you get to the bottom of it. :-) I really think that they are just trying to provide accurate and honest information.
Since I've been doing the hours and hours of reading that I've done lately, I've run into a lot of things that they might have used as source information. It's quite valid.
Posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 11:49:03
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~ » SLS, posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 11:14:37
I think that 2 1/2 years on Effexor, with follow up bloodwork, blood pressure checks, and monthly psych. evaluations,just about qualifies as a long term independant study. :~) I'm obviosuly not the only one out there. It's just that most other happy Effexor users, are out living, and not on this sight,or posting on the internet.
I can personally attest to the fact that Effexor still continues to work well for me, long after 6 months,and my health continues to be very good.
Faith~
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 11:55:58
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~ » SLS, posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 11:14:37
I would ask to be afforded the same courtesy of not being addressed by those that have requested that of me, even if the wrong name is used.
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