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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 8:12:56
Can you help me?
I want to hear from people who have personal experience of taking Nardil and high doses of SSRIs (not at the same time!)..........
In your experience........
Which is most 'effective' at causing anorgasmia- Nardil or a high dose of an SSRI?
Which is most likely to reduce your libido- Nardil or a high dose of an SSRI?
Which is most likely to cause impotence- Nardil or a high dose of an SSRI?
If you can help, please can you also tell me.......What dose of Nardil were you taking?
Which SSRIs have you taken?
What dose of SSRI were you taking?Thank you,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 8:13:46
In reply to SSRIs vs Nardil, posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 8:12:56
Please help me :-)
Posted by jclint on December 28, 2004, at 11:13:30
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil, posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 8:13:46
Not much help, but give me a couple of weeks, I'll be able to compare it to efexor. Day 3 of nardil now. Thanks for your babblemail ed, I appreciate it :)
Posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 11:58:40
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil, posted by jclint on December 28, 2004, at 11:13:30
>Thanks for your babblemail ed, I appreciate it :)
You're welcome! Keep us up to date with how you're doing :-)
Ed.
Posted by TheOutsider on December 28, 2004, at 17:30:06
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil, posted by jclint on December 28, 2004, at 11:13:30
> Not much help, but give me a couple of weeks, I'll be able to compare it to efexor. Day 3 of nardil now.
Really interested to hear that you've started Nardil jclint, please keep us posted!
May I ask what you are taking Nardil for?
For Ed
Regarding sexual disfunction caused by Nardil.
I have heard that it can suddenly mysteriesly resolve itself after several months of use.
I have never heard of this happening with an SSRI.
Posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 17:48:22
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil for jclint and Ed, posted by TheOutsider on December 28, 2004, at 17:30:06
>I have never heard of this happening with an SSRI.
Hi,
I always develop a considerable amount of tolerance to the orgasm-supression that SSRIs cause. At 60mg Paxil/Seroxat I could easily have an orgasm after I'd been on it for a few weeks.
Ed.
Posted by jclint on December 28, 2004, at 17:57:52
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil for jclint and Ed, posted by TheOutsider on December 28, 2004, at 17:30:06
Social anxiety, and resulting depression. I'm frustrated that I'm only on 30mg, I want to move on up! I bought a little wrist BP monitor, my baseline seems to be around 115/73. Is this fairly normal for a young adult?
I've been trying to lose my fear of the 'old forbidden objects', ie the ones on the prehistoric notes that my pharmacist gave me. Had a bottle or two of beer, and had mozzerella with pasta. No reaction yet, although seeing as it takes '5-10 days to achieve complete MAO inhibition' I imagine I could eat just about anything at the moment and not have a reaction. So early days yet.
Posted by TheOutsider on December 28, 2004, at 18:53:39
In reply to Re: Orgasms » TheOutsider, posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 17:48:22
> Hi,
>
> I always develop a considerable amount of tolerance to the orgasm-supression that SSRIs cause. At 60mg Paxil/Seroxat I could easily have an orgasm after I'd been on it for a few weeks.
>
> Ed.Well you learn a new thing every day!
For some reason I thought SSRI sexual side effects were permanent.I would assume that if your SSRI sexual side effects eased with time then the same thing would happen with Nardil.
However as I always tell myself, assumptions are dangerous!
Posted by Michael Bell on December 28, 2004, at 18:59:28
In reply to SSRIs vs Nardil, posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 8:12:56
> Can you help me?
>
> I want to hear from people who have personal experience of taking Nardil and high doses of SSRIs (not at the same time!)..........
>
> In your experience........
>
> Which is most 'effective' at causing anorgasmia- Nardil or a high dose of an SSRI?
>
> Which is most likely to reduce your libido- Nardil or a high dose of an SSRI?
>
> Which is most likely to cause impotence- Nardil or a high dose of an SSRI?
>
>
> If you can help, please can you also tell me.......
>
> What dose of Nardil were you taking?
> Which SSRIs have you taken?
> What dose of SSRI were you taking?
>
> Thank you,
> Ed.
This comes from a comparison of 3 wks on Nardil vs. about six weeks on Prozac:Nardil (30mg/day): made it difficult to maintain an erection and made me last forever. However, my libido was not decreased. In fact, I was even more interested in girls and with my confidence through the roof I happened to go on a hookup frenzy that was only rivaled by my college years.
It sounds ridiculous, but my socialization skills were completely reversed (in a good way).Prozac (20 mg/day): still able to get an erection. No interest in sex.
In retrospect, I'd rather have decreased erection capacity (which, by the way, usually goes away after a few months) than no libido.
Posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2004, at 19:47:46
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil for jclint and Ed, posted by jclint on December 28, 2004, at 17:57:52
Yes, that's a good blood pressure. New guidelines state that BP should be under l20/80,I believe before the question of even borderline hypertension. Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 20:08:18
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil - my experience » ed_uk, posted by Michael Bell on December 28, 2004, at 18:59:28
Please can I ask.....
Which treatment inhibited orgasm the most..... Nardil 30mg or Prozac 20mg?
Thank you,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 20:10:03
In reply to To Michael Bell, posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 20:08:18
PS. How long did you have to take Nardil for before it inhibited orgasm?
Ed.
Posted by Michael Bell on December 29, 2004, at 18:07:08
In reply to To Michael Bell, posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 20:08:18
I'd say Nardil inhibited orgasms the most, and it was somewhat difficult to maintain an erection, but the desire to have sex was still there, if not stronger.
Prozac made me much less interested in sex. ANd the other SSRIs are supposed to be worse in that regard.
Posted by ed_uk on December 29, 2004, at 18:39:43
In reply to Re: To Michael Bell » ed_uk, posted by Michael Bell on December 29, 2004, at 18:07:08
Thank you for the info!
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by lars1 on December 29, 2004, at 19:22:38
In reply to SSRIs vs Nardil, posted by ed_uk on December 28, 2004, at 8:12:56
Hi Ed,
Please give some thought to trying the non-medical methods I mentioned in my other post. They really do work. Meds can be effective for delaying orgasm, but they tend to numb you and reduce your pleasure. They can also cause erection problems. The non-medical methods actually increase your pleasure by letting you sustain a high level of arousal over time. They also give you the flexibility to last a long time when that's what you want, and a short time when that seems more appropriate, and you can use them long after pdrugs are behind you.
Lars
Posted by ed_uk on December 29, 2004, at 20:19:00
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil » ed_uk, posted by lars1 on December 29, 2004, at 19:22:38
> Please give some thought to trying the non-medical methods I mentioned in my other post. They really do work. Meds can be effective for delaying orgasm, but they tend to numb you and reduce your pleasure. They can also cause erection problems.
Hello Lars!!
Thank you for your advice :-)
I will try the non-medical methods. Wish me luck! Do you have PE?You right about the numbness. Paxil 60mg was quite effective as suppressing orgasm but my sex drive was low and the pleasure was reduced. Still, I do 'function' better on Paxil than without it. Other SSRIs don't seem as 'good' at suppressing ejac... perhaps because Paxil is a more potent SRI!
>The non-medical methods actually increase your pleasure by letting you sustain a high level of arousal over time.
I never in my life been able to sustain a high level of arousal over time.
This is how I work.....
Off meds....
Erection followed very rapidly by orgasm. To be honest, anorgasmia would be better.
On Paxil 60mg....
Erection followed by an acceptably long but rather boring period of 'numbness' followed by orgasm.
I'm convinced that my PE is not psychosomatic... trust me, I've had so many psychosomatic symptoms in my short life that I'm very good at recognising them! I've had PE all my life. It is not situational ie. it is not caused by anxiety. ......Although sex does make me anxious which is another matter entirely.
>They also give you the flexibility to last a long time when that's what you want, and a short time when that seems more appropriate, and you can use them long after pdrugs are behind you.
Sounds fantastic :-)
I'm still interested in the drugs though because I do need them for my anxiety. My OCD tends to relapse a few months after stopping my SSRI so I end up having to restart it. I'm also interested in Nardil because of the side effects that I get from SSRIs. Anyway, under stressful conditions SSRIs aren't always adequate to control my anxiety.
Regards,
Ed.PS. Here is a message to any nasty people (not you lars) who are sitting at their computers laughing at me for haiving a bad case of PE..........
Just remember...
I can have a nice orgasm on Paxil 60mg. I bet you can't! LOLMaybe I'm being paranoid....
Posted by lars1 on December 30, 2004, at 4:36:43
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil » lars1, posted by ed_uk on December 29, 2004, at 20:19:00
> I will try the non-medical methods. Wish me luck! Do you have PE?
Good luck! They take some effort but can be very rewarding. I did have PE. The Zilbergeld book helped me a lot. I just wish that I had found it while I was still in school and had more opportunities to put it to use.
I have been on various antidepressants for a long time now, and they all seem to cause sexual side effects (even the ones that supposedly don't), so now my problem isn't PE, it's erectile dysfunction and sometimes delayed orgasm (which is nice, but only up to a point). Since I got Viagra, the ED isn't much of a problem anymore. Actually, my main sexual problem right now is that I'm not getting any! :-)
>
> You right about the numbness. Paxil 60mg was quite effective as suppressing orgasm but my sex drive was low and the pleasure was reduced. Still, I do 'function' better on Paxil than without it. Other SSRIs don't seem as 'good' at suppressing ejac... perhaps because Paxil is a more potent SRI!I know what you mean about the low sex drive. While on SRIs I often feel that I could take it or leave it, and I'm really doing it mostly because it's the expected thing.
>
> I'm convinced that my PE is not psychosomatic... trust me, I've had so many psychosomatic symptoms in my short life that I'm very good at recognising them! I've had PE all my life. It is not situational ie. it is not caused by anxiety. ......Although sex does make me anxious which is another matter entirely.Well, a common treatment for anxiety is to expose yourself to the thing that makes you anxious until you become inured to it. So I think you will just need to have as much sex as possible, until the problem goes away. :-)
>
> Regards,
> Ed.
>
> PS. Here is a message to any nasty people (not you lars) who are sitting at their computers laughing at me for haiving a bad case of PE..........
>
> Just remember...
> I can have a nice orgasm on Paxil 60mg. I bet you can't! LOL
>
> Maybe I'm being paranoid....
>I doubt that anybody is laughing at you... mostly because, they've been there themselves. Actually, I think it took a lot of courage for you to bring this up.
Posted by ed_uk on December 30, 2004, at 10:42:04
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil » ed_uk, posted by lars1 on December 30, 2004, at 4:36:43
Hi Lars!!
>they all seem to cause sexual side effects (even the ones that supposedly don't).
Lofepramine (Gamanil) hasn't caused me any sexual side effects. It's similar to desipramine, have you ever taken either of these ADs?
>Actually, my main sexual problem right now is that I'm not getting any! :-)
Me too!>I think it took a lot of courage for you to bring this up.
Thank you! I'm glad you replied, few people dared :-( PE is so common that there are sure to be plenty of men on babble who've got it.
All the best,
Ed.
Posted by lars1 on December 30, 2004, at 17:40:56
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil » lars1, posted by ed_uk on December 30, 2004, at 10:42:04
>
> Lofepramine (Gamanil) hasn't caused me any sexual side effects. It's similar to desipramine, have you ever taken either of these ADs?Hi Ed,
I tried desipramine a long time ago, and, now that you mention it, I remember that it worked and didn't cause too much trouble sexually, although dry mouth was a problem.
Lars
Posted by ed_uk on December 30, 2004, at 19:54:54
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil » ed_uk, posted by lars1 on December 30, 2004, at 17:40:56
Hi Lars!
You could always try desipramine again and treat the dry mouth with a parasympathomimetic drug such as pilocarpine.
Ed.
Posted by lars1 on January 1, 2005, at 4:53:25
In reply to Re: SSRIs vs Nardil » lars1, posted by ed_uk on December 30, 2004, at 19:54:54
> You could always try desipramine again and treat the dry mouth with a parasympathomimetic drug such as pilocarpine.
That's an excellent idea! A little web searching reveals that pilocarpine is a cholinergic agonist that promotes saliva production. Its side effects are primarily from its cholinergic effect, so they would just be reversing the anticholinergic effects of the TCA. There are also a couple of alternatives available, bethanechol (Urecholine) and cevimeline (Evoxac). The only real downsides seem to be the cost and the t.i.d. dosing (or even more often, according to some postings). It's strange that they don't seem to have a sustained-release formulation available.
I'm not ready to give up the current med combo just yet, but I will definitely keep that in mind. Why didn't I hear about this from my doctor when I was taking TCA's and it would have done me some good? Actually, it may do me some good anyway, because I'm having some dry mouth problems right now.
Best regards,
Lars
Posted by ed_uk on January 1, 2005, at 17:33:53
In reply to Dry mouth relief » ed_uk, posted by lars1 on January 1, 2005, at 4:53:25
Hi!
You could always consider taking a very low dose of distigmine (Ubretid) to treat your desipramine-induced dry mouth. I don't know where you live so I'm not sure whether distigmine will be available. A suitable dose might be 2.5 mg once daily. Distigmine inhibits the breakdown of acetylcholine and so it might be effective in relieving anticholinergic side effects.
Regards,
Ed.
This is the end of the thread.
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