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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Peddidle on December 5, 2004, at 16:40:53
By JEFFREY COLLINS, Associated Press
OLUMBIA, S.C. (Dec. 5) - Authorities say three years ago, Christopher Pittman, then 12, shot his grandparents as they slept because they had scolded him for fighting. But Christopher's father, Joe Pittman, thinks his son killed because his sense of right and wrong was clouded by the anti-depressant Zoloft.
Joe Pittman spoke out against the drug in a Food and Drug Administration hearing early this year. The boy, who had threatened suicide, was put on the drug three weeks before the slayings, and his dose was doubled just two days earlier.Joe Pittman's hands shook as he read his son's confession to a roomful of strangers during the hearing.
"I took everything out on my grandparents, who I loved so very much,'' wrote then-12-year-old Christopher Pittman. "When I was lying in my bed that night, I couldn't sleep because my voice in my head kept echoing through my mind, telling me to kill them.''
But prosecutors and police say Christopher's actions during and after the November 2001 slayings show he clearly knew what he was doing was wrong.
The boy waited until his grandparents were sleeping and took a pump-action shotgun from a gun cabinet. He crept into the couple's dark bedroom, first shooting 66-year-old Joe Frank Pittman in his open mouth, then firing into the back of 62-year-old Joy Pittman's head.
Christopher then set the house on fire and drove off in the family car. When he got stuck on a dirt road 20 miles away, he told hunters he was kidnapped by a man who killed his grandparents, set the fire, drove him into the woods and ran away.
Christopher was living with his father's parents in hopes of turning his life around. He told defense experts he felt abandoned by his mother and his relationship with his father was rocky. No one answered phone calls to Joe Pittman's home.A month before the slayings, Christopher was hospitalized in Florida, where his father lives, after he threatened to kill himself. The boy was prescribed the anti-depressant Paxil, but another doctor soon put him on Zoloft instead.
Pittman decided to send the boy to live with his grandparents in Chester County, a rural area between Columbia and Charlotte, N.C.
Christopher, who turns 16 in April, is being prosecuted as an adult and faces 30 years to life in prison if convicted at his trial, set to start next month. His lawyers argue that his case should be moved to Family Court, where if convicted, he could only be kept in custody until he turns 21.
Karen Menzies, one of Christopher's lawyers and an attorney specializing in lawsuits against anti-depressant makers, said medical research is available to support the Zoloft defense.
In the three years the teen has spent in jail awaiting trial, the FDA has become increasingly wary of doctors prescribing Zoloft and other antidepressants for children.
In October, the agency ordered the drugs to carry ``black box'' warnings - the government's strongest warning short of a ban - about increasing the risk of suicidal behavior in children.
``The science has been out there for a while. The prescription drug companies have been able to hide it,'' Menzies said.
On the other side is Pfizer Inc., the maker of Zoloft, which has aided the prosecution, according to Solicitor John Justice, who has since taken himself off the case for health reasons.
The company has vigorously fought cases claiming antidepressants cause violent or suicidal behavior.
A spokesman responded to inquiries by pointing out an October statement on the company's Web site addressing concerns of suicide attempts, saying studies show ``no statistically significant difference'' between children using Zoloft and nonusers. The statement, though, does not discuss any possible link between the drug and violent acts against others.Trying to blame a drug for causing someone to commit a crime is an uphill fight, but it has been done successfully.
In April, a Santa Cruz, Calif., jury acquitted a man of attempted murder after he beat his friend, then blamed the episode on Zoloft.
National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers spokesman Jack King said the ``Zoloft-made-me-do-it'' defense likely means that the Pittman case will come down to defense vs. prosecution experts.
``It's going to be a battle of whose experts the jury believes,'' King said.
Christopher's maternal grandmother, Delnora Duprey, of Wildwood, Fla., said her grandson is no longer on any medication and is the ``sweet, quiet, laid-back'' boy she knew growing up. ``He's the old Christopher again.''
Menzies said the teenager is getting good grades and behaving behind bars.
Duprey says the "whole entire family is behind Christopher 150 percent.''
She thinks Zoloft had to have caused Christopher to kill his grandparents because he loved them both, especially the grandfather he called ``Pop-Pop.''
``We used to joke that he was his Pop-Pop's shadow,'' Duprey said.
However, those who dealt with the boy after the crime feel differently.
``Anybody who could kill his grandparents in the fashion he did shouldn't be let loose on the public at age 21. And that would have been the best-case scenario,'' said former prosecutor Justice, who pushed to move the case to adult court.
The current prosecutor, Barney Giese of Columbia, said through his office that he doesn't talk about cases before they go to trial.
Chester County Sheriff Robbie Benson said interviews with Christopher left him shaken because he could not believe the lack of remorse. ``This was cold-blooded.''
Menzies said those observations might help her case.
``The boy was still suffering from the side-effects of this medication after the incident,'' she said. ``I think we see a different Christopher now.''
Posted by jclint on December 5, 2004, at 17:02:00
In reply to Dad Cites Boy's Antidepressants in Deaths, posted by Peddidle on December 5, 2004, at 16:40:53
Jeez... I'd hate to be on that jury. There's just so many factors in cases like this that I don't think its possible to get a fair trial.
Posted by jclint on December 5, 2004, at 17:09:49
In reply to Dad Cites Boy's Antidepressants in Deaths, posted by Peddidle on December 5, 2004, at 16:40:53
I have to say though, my first impression is that the father is most likely grasping for a scapegoat... understandably. I don't believe an SSRI could be the catalyst of the boy's actions. The boy was clearly disturbed beforehand. I don't think zoloft could turn a 'well-adjusted' person into a homicidal/phsycotic person.
I suppose the issue here is not whether the zoloft made the boy homicidal, but whether the doctors who it prescribed to him failed to realise his urgent condition.
Just my $0.02...
Posted by ed_uk on December 5, 2004, at 18:32:40
In reply to Re: Dad Cites Boy's Antidepressants in Deaths, posted by jclint on December 5, 2004, at 17:09:49
When I was a child, I did some very aggressive things while taking SSRIs. I'm not aggressive anymore. It's interesting how SSRIs seem to be associated with a greater risk of violence, self harm, mania and suicidal ideation in children than in adults. UK government info.........
The 'risks of treating depressive illness in under 18s with certain SSRIs outweigh the benefits of treatment. There is no, or insufficient, evidence from clinical trials that benefits outweigh the risks of side effects for sertraline (Lustral), citalopram (Cipramil), escitalopram (Cipralex) and fluvoxamine (Faverin). Fluoxetine, or Prozac, appears to have a positive balance of risks and benefits in the treatment of depressive illness in the under 18s.' Mmmm.. I'm dubious about fluoxetine!
Effexor can be equally risky. Info about Effexor from the UK data sheet.....
'In paediatric MDD clinical trials the following adverse events were reported at a frequency of *at least 2% of patients and occurred at a rate of at least twice that of placebo*: abdominal pain, chest pain, tachycardia, anorexia, weight loss, constipation, dyspepsia, nausea, ecchymosis, epistaxis, mydriasis, myalgia, dizziness, *emotional lability*, tremor, *hostility* and *suicidal ideation*.'
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on December 5, 2004, at 22:29:48
In reply to Re: The SSRI controversy, posted by ed_uk on December 5, 2004, at 18:32:40
The SSRI's have certainly increased my thinking about self harm. I have never thought about hurting anyone else though.
I tend to agree more with the theory that we have disturbed people to begin with, or else they wouldn't be prescribed these drugs. I'm sure they could be catalysts.
Linkadge
Posted by zeugma on December 6, 2004, at 15:57:26
In reply to Re: The SSRI controversy, posted by linkadge on December 5, 2004, at 22:29:48
This is in consonance with David Healy's report, when he gave either sertaline or reboxetine to 'euthymic' volunteers, that sertraline caused these thoughts to appear even in the absence of depressive ideation. Interesting. The account is given in "Let Them Eat Prozac".
Posted by lostforwards on December 6, 2004, at 16:29:46
In reply to Re: The SSRI controversy, posted by linkadge on December 5, 2004, at 22:29:48
That's freaked out. I had an ex who had the same problem. She was had anorexia years ago ( in her teens ) and was put on prozac, then paxil. I think she may have been treated for depression too.
After coming off she claimed that she always had morbid thoughts of self-harm or destruction in general. I'm not sure if things changed for her after going on Effexor.
Posted by lostforwards on December 6, 2004, at 17:02:14
In reply to Re: The SSRI controversy, posted by linkadge on December 5, 2004, at 22:29:48
You mean after going on the SSRIs and coming off that you had more suicidal thoughts? I'm not sure on second thought that was the problem my ex had. I think she may have just got used to the SSRIs and when she went off still had her depression. She did have thoughts like that but they were probably there before. The only difference was the old meds didn't work again.
Posted by linkadge on December 6, 2004, at 22:23:28
In reply to Re: The SSRI controversy, posted by lostforwards on December 6, 2004, at 17:02:14
This is the problem. Some people say that SSRI's cause agression and suicidiality going on them, and others say these symptoms appear when coming off of them.
I am sure that either one could happen.
Like I said. Half of the SSRI calms you down (5ht1a/b activation), and the other half agitates you to no end (5-ht2a/c) activation.
So take your pick, but either initiation or discontinuation could pose problems.
Posted by lia mason on December 7, 2004, at 22:46:12
In reply to Re: The SSRI controversy, posted by linkadge on December 5, 2004, at 22:29:48
There was a really good article (cover story) in NYTimes Magazine about adolescents and SSRI's and suicide a few weeks back. The part I found interesting was what they call "rollback": the delicate period in the first month of AD treatment when mood benefits haven't kicked in, but improvement in organization and energy has commenced. So it's very possible that a suicidal patient gains motivation in this early phase of treatment while he/she is still depressed. I worry that we'll never sort this all out and in the meantime a panic will prevent docs from prescribing the drugs. I, for example, struggled horribly for a couple years until Prozac was released and I got my life back. I was 18. It wasn't magic, of course, I'm still posting here, after all! But it enabled me to stay in school and kick my eating disorders.
Lia
Posted by dove on December 8, 2004, at 9:41:36
In reply to Re: The SSRI controversy, posted by lia mason on December 7, 2004, at 22:46:12
I have to add that I ended up hospitalized during the first month of initiating Prozac, and again during the first month of starting high dose Effexor. The stabilizing of the mood hadn't kicked in yet and I had excess energy with a lot of negative emotions. I made attempts on my life both of those times, and have never experienced the same genre of emotional instability starting up on any other meds. When my daughter began Paxil she became what the doc's labeled as "agitated manic." However, I believe she was going through the exact same reaction to the Paxil as what I went through with Prozac and Effexor.
Now, I am aware of this reaction and have been able to manage quite well during those first four weeks. If you know what to expect, understand what your body and mind are doing, and have someone who cares helping you work through that hellish time period I think the dangers can be lessened. Unfortunately, most people don't know what is happening to them--other than the reality of the negative feelings--and no doc's I know will even give this phenomenon an official "heads-up." It is a very dangerous time period for many people and there really should be some sort of official warning and very--very close supervision of anyone initiating SSRI-type meds.
dove
Posted by linkadge on December 9, 2004, at 16:07:46
In reply to Re: The SSRI controversy, posted by dove on December 8, 2004, at 9:41:36
I have attributed suicidality to both SSRi initiation and SSRI withdrawl.
It is funny but I atrriute the agitation to the theraputic responce. The antidepressants that didn't initally agitate me, didn't work as antidepressants. Similarly, the antidepressants that didn't cause some degree of insomnia (ie remeron, trazedone, serzone) didn't work as antidepressants for me.
Linkadge
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