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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JayDee on December 3, 2004, at 1:16:36
IF YOU HAVE A SHORT ATTENTION SPAN LIKE ME, SKIP TO THE END>>>>
I'm so sick of this ADHD crap. I get nothing done, ever. I have so much stuff I need to do, and much that I want to do. This is the story of my life.
I can't hold a normal conversation, I get so bored with the stuff people talk about. You can say somthing like, "the weather is nice" to me and all I can think is, "ok... so?" I don't get small talk, but thats all that people do. But I want to socialize so bad, I just don't get it. I'm not even getting into my incredible social anxiety.I'm so selfish(it seems that way)
Being completely socially withdrawn, it would be nice to be able to sit here in front of the computer, read, do research, do homework, study for classes like I should be, work on my car etc... but I don't/can't do any of that properly. Trying to read stuff on the internet... I don't even finish sentences, skim thru, I cant even finish stuff that interests me!! too boring!! Does this make any sense?It's like I'm chronically uncomfortable. Extremely impatient for no reason. It's hell not being able to sit still, but at the same time having nowhere to go. I've had suicidal thoughts for the past 10 years!
I'm real good at pacing around the house getting nothing done despite 100 things being on my mind! Why couldn't God have given me a useful talent?
I've never done ANY kind of drugs in my life, and I'm more fucked up then anyone I know. And they all did drugs. I was always against it, and wouldn't get pissed at friends for it. What a fool I was...
Been to a shrink three times. First one was a conservative idiot, so I told her to give me Strattera. It was better then nothing(not much), but it was expensive and didn't last long enough. And did very little for my anxiety/depression.
The second shrink has ADHD himself, at first I thought great, someone who might understand my hell. He even says, "I *SUFFER* from ADHD myself,"
But I screwed that appt. up by showing up 40 minutes late, despite the fact I had been thinking about it all day. Basically I told the Doc and the Nurse(in 10 minutes) that I had ADHD, SP, Depression, sucidal thoughts. Decided not to bring up Borderline Personality Disorder from the stuff I've read on this forum. So I told the doc to give me Prozac, he wrote it out and says, "Come back in like 1 or 2 weeks, whatever you want, and we'll talk about ADHD medication." I thought GREAT, this doc is going to be OK, but the appt was with the Nurse only, and I could tell in the 10 min talking to her that her listening comprehension was worse then mine. Well, at least she *belived* the things I was telling her, unlike the first doc.
Anyways, I get to the 2nd appt 20 min early. Yay! Well, she manages to turn a 30 min. appt. into a 5 min quickie. Basically I tell her I'm in a good mood today, the prozac hasnt really helped with SP(only 2 weeks)she asked me if I had any suicidal thoughts, I am a very honest person and felt telling the truth would only get me some compassion, perhaps. "Yes."
Well basically she says "Sounds like the Prozac might be helping you with the Social Anxiety." (WTF????!?!?!?!?) And that since I had had suicidal thoughs we couldn't talk about the ADHD meds, until mabye next time! AND I HAVE FINALS NEXT WEEK, LOL. not to mention a nice girl that I wanted to ask to study w/ me. somthing I failed at miserably the next day.-Why am I being punished for telling the Nurse I had suicidal thoughts?
-Is there a better AD then Prozac(now on 40mg) for someone like me, who would like to be 'calmed,' even if it means dumbed down. somthing for chronic uncomfort, restlessness/hyperactivity?
-What other drugs are useful? Klonopin? When I take opiates, I feel NORMAL. Patient, comfortable, happy. I listen to people more, and I do more.
How often can Hydrocodone be taken and still get this effect? I was only taking one 7.5 mg about every other day, and it seems just from this the effect has wained 75%!! :(
Alcohol has a similar effect, not as good though(plus hangover)
Is there anything else? legal or illegal.
Ill take critizism/advise, I could use it.
thanks for reading. and sorry for the long incoherent post. ;-)
Posted by JayDee on December 3, 2004, at 1:24:12
In reply to Help - AD for ADHD guy? other drugs?+long rant :-(, posted by JayDee on December 3, 2004, at 1:16:36
I hate being alone, and my Father is a total jerk/idiot. being with him is 10x worse then being alone.
Posted by thinkfast on December 3, 2004, at 8:00:25
In reply to Help - AD for ADHD guy? other drugs?+long rant :-(, posted by JayDee on December 3, 2004, at 1:16:36
First off, I wouldn't get yourself addicted to pain-killers or do street drugs that have god knows what in them. I've been down that route, and still go back from time to time but it's not worth it given the consequences. Your post explains my state of being almost exactly, but is starting to be more in the past. I was diagnosed with SP, OCD, and depression about three years ago and I have only now found some medications that do a decent job. I was never officially diagnosed with ADD, but much of the symptoms fit pretty well. The majority of my conclusion of ADD is simply from reading peoples experiences with it. Stimulants have always been very pro-social for me, and I've fairly severe social anxiety. We are exactly the same when it comes to being bored with peoples conversations! Stim's make all of that tolerable..not that this is the best of reasons to take em'. But, they help out with other stuff too, such as: doing dishes, laundry, cleaning the house, going to work :-), getting bills paid, taking ur time on something important, etc. etc. I'm on strattera, which is not a stim, but I get the same positive effects. Ritalin works better, but my pdoc won't Rx it to me. Besides taking the drug route out, I would reccomend finding a hobbby that completely interests you..something intense that requires a lot of concentration. I go 4-wheel driving for instance. I get the excitement, and I don't get bored cuz it's extremely technical with a lot to think about. In other words, something safe that gets ur adrenaline going.
BTY..I'm on effexor, strattera, and seroquel for sleep. The effexor works on depression fairly well, and the strattera helps with anxiety/hyperactivity. None of this crap works for SP very well. Ritalin does, but can't get it. Stick around this site for a while, there's tons of info and ideas on here. Aw-ight, I'm done babbling..Good luck Peace
Posted by King Vultan on December 3, 2004, at 9:19:46
In reply to Help - AD for ADHD guy? other drugs?+long rant :-(, posted by JayDee on December 3, 2004, at 1:16:36
It might be worthwhile for you to switch over to Wellbutrin, which is a dopaminergic med. It and Parnate are the two most stimulant-like drugs in the antidepressant class. I have long term depression, social phobia, and some ADD symptoms, and I found both drugs very good for increasing drive and motivation. Wellbutrin SR is now available in generic form, which should make it cheaper than it used to be. Parnate is an MAOI that is rather expensive and is more of a last resort medication. Wellbutrin seems to be looked at as being quite a bit more innocuous than the stimulants, and many doctors who are resistant to prescribing stimulants will prescribe Wellbutrin.
Todd
Posted by dove on December 3, 2004, at 10:13:48
In reply to Re: Help - AD for ADHD guy? other drugs?+long rant :-(, posted by King Vultan on December 3, 2004, at 9:19:46
Since being "dumbed down" isn't an issue ;-)
I have found a combination of the following meds to help with the symptoms you're discussing:
Effexor (150-225 mgs per day--depends on severity of depression and anhedonia. Also helped social anxiety once I was used to it, initially caused extra anxiety--happily it was merely transient.),
Klonopin (0.5-3 mgs--for panic, anxiety, and social phobia/anxiety, although, my other meds must be controlling these symptoms as I haven't needed to take any in over 4 months.),
Remeron (45 mgs at night--helps with going to sleep when I'm suppose to and gaining worthwhile energy the next day. Another plus is that it puts my over-active brain asleep when its being self-destructive. I think it helps smooth over some of my social anxiety also.),
Prozac (10-40 mgs--helps focus energy and curb impulsive behavior as well as numbing depressive emotions--is that good? Sometimes it's needed in my case.)
Adderall (0.5-40 mgs per day--helps enormously with scatter-brain behavior, getting mundane jobs "finished"--not just started. Helps tremendously with focus, and helps in small dosages with social phobia. However, this med does cause me to become irritable and gives me muscle tension--especially in my jaw. Has also acerbated depression at times.)
I have been on this combo for almost two (2) years now, with a few bad episodes interspersed, but overall, a very positive response.
If I should suddenly deteriorate on this combo I would then start considering Cymbalta to replace Effexor. Parnate (or Nardil, MAOI's) and one of the activating old TCA's would be next on my list, although they would require a good wash-out period. I have taken just about everything except for the MAOI's, so they are my "big gun" hold-outs should worse get much worse.
Stimulants can cause a worsening of depression, and can be very useful in self-destructive behaviors. Next time you visit with Pdoc and/or Nurse, and you feel strongly that the ADD meds will enable you to thrive, do not tell them you are having suicidal ideation. Perhaps it would be more helpful to explain how you are feeling overwhelmed and unable to get anything done, and this is what is fueling some of your other negative symptoms. Just a thought...
Hope this helps!
dove
Posted by sunny10 on December 3, 2004, at 12:49:48
In reply to Re: Help - AD for ADHD guy? other drugs?+long rant :-(, posted by dove on December 3, 2004, at 10:13:48
Jaydee,
My son was on Ritalin from 5 yrs old 'til 12 yrs old. He was not thriving as he should and was depressed often. He was then put on Adderall XR (or is it XL, sigh) He is 13 1/2 now. Last month he had to be put onto Zoloft as an AD because the stims had exacerbated his depression so much that he wasn't eating, sleeping, losing weight he could ill afford (at five foot, three inches he was 93 lbs after losing the weight-having "skinny genes" in the family), and was extremely volatile/angry/anxious (as I'm told depression will often come out when mixed with testosterone)!
I am telling you all this because I need you to understand that you cannot afford to lie when you see this Nurse or Doc. They are doing this to protect you. They want to make sure the AD is working at optimum efficacy before they add on a known depressant and rage stimulant.
Please don't attempt to diagnose yourself. If you have zero faith in that particular office, please seek another, but stay on the AD's in the meantime- otherwise the next doc will probably have to start you on them all over again, too, which will only further your delay onto the stims that will help the ADHD.
I know, I know, it is very easy for me to tell someone suffering from ADHD to wait, but I just thought you should know WHY the medical staff is treating you this way. Feel FREE to bring up the topic of the ADHD meds, but don't lie when they question you. Another poster suggested that you explain that you feel that the anxiety could be making you feel worse. If this is true- maybe you should be taking an AD that helps with anxiety specifically. Being less anxious with all of those thoughts in your head should also enable you to slow down a bit.
Just my two cents... take 'em or leave 'em !
Posted by JayDee on December 3, 2004, at 23:20:12
In reply to Re: Help - AD for ADHD guy? other drugs?+long rant :-(, posted by sunny10 on December 3, 2004, at 12:49:48
Sunny,
Thank you for your grounding advice. I'm sorry to hear about your son's troubles with depression ;(.
The problem with me is, ive had suicidal thoughts for 10 years. I was actually planning to 'do it' when H/S was over with, but didn't have the balls. I fear death. My point is, it doesn't seem likely for them to dissapear so easily. I had a pretty good day today, and I think i'm feeling better, perhaps I can make it this month w/o them? ;-)
Posted by JayDee on December 3, 2004, at 23:26:29
In reply to Re: Help - AD for ADHD guy? other drugs?+long rant :-(, posted by King Vultan on December 3, 2004, at 9:19:46
Hi Todd,
Thanks for the reply. I considered Wellbutrin, but unfortunatly I think I have too much general anxiety to handle it. My mother couldn't tolerate it AT ALL, too much anxiety. But she loves the Adderall.
Has Wellbutrin been shown to have the neurotropic effects of the regular AD's?Parnate on the other hand is somthing that interests me ALOT. The diet restrictions do bother me, and I don't think the Doc would be too keen on a MAOI so quick. And I think I will end up on a Stim eventually, convincing the doc to combine MAOI and stim seems like a daunting task.
Have you found Parnate to be as effective for your ADHD symptoms over the long term when compared to Wellbutrin?
Thanks, J
> It might be worthwhile for you to switch over to Wellbutrin, which is a dopaminergic med. It and Parnate are the two most stimulant-like drugs in the antidepressant class. I have long term depression, social phobia, and some ADD symptoms, and I found both drugs very good for increasing drive and motivation. Wellbutrin SR is now available in generic form, which should make it cheaper than it used to be. Parnate is an MAOI that is rather expensive and is more of a last resort medication. Wellbutrin seems to be looked at as being quite a bit more innocuous than the stimulants, and many doctors who are resistant to prescribing stimulants will prescribe Wellbutrin.
>
> Todd
Posted by JayDee on December 3, 2004, at 23:35:26
In reply to Re: Help - AD for ADHD guy? other drugs?+long rant :-(, posted by dove on December 3, 2004, at 10:13:48
Dove,
Your last paragraph describes exactly how I feel. I just suck at explaining myself in person, I get scared and my mind goes blank. Also, if I was to kill myself, I wouldn't use pills. ;-)
All the crap surrounding stims scares the heck out of me. Tolerance, PoopOut, Dependence... but it's worth a try, right?
Effexor's dependence scares me too much, and it made my moms RLS/insomia worse. I wonder if Cymbalta is as effective, w/o the massive dependence? Remeron sounds nice, I could use some decent sleep, damn RLS.
Do you really use 3 ssri's in varying doses like that? Hey, whatever works. I'm glad you have found so much relief.
Posted by JayDee on December 3, 2004, at 23:47:33
In reply to Re: Help - AD for ADHD guy? other drugs?+long rant :-(, posted by thinkfast on December 3, 2004, at 8:00:25
> First off, I wouldn't get yourself addicted to >pain-killers or do street drugs that have god >knows what in them.
But they're so good!!!! ;) I know why now ADD'ers get into drugs so much, being ADD is like being addicted to drugs w/o having ever even tried one. all the time.
>>> I've been down that route, and still go back from time to time but it's not worth it given the consequences. Your post explains my state of being almost exactly, but is starting to be more in the past. I was diagnosed with SP, OCD, and depression about three years ago and I have only now found some medications that do a decent job. I was never officially diagnosed with ADD, but much of the symptoms fit pretty well. The majority of my conclusion of ADD is simply from reading peoples experiences with it. Stimulants have always been very pro-social for me, and I've fairly severe social anxiety. We are exactly the same when it comes to being bored with peoples conversations! Stim's make all of that tolerable..not that this is the best of reasons to take em'. But, they help out with other stuff too, such as: doing dishes, laundry, cleaning the house, going to work :-), getting bills paid, taking ur time on something important, etc. etc. I'm on strattera, which is not a stim, but I get the same positive effects. Ritalin works better, but my pdoc won't Rx it to me. Besides taking the drug route out, I would reccomend finding a hobbby that completely interests you..something intense that requires a lot of concentration. I go 4-wheel driving for instance. I get the excitement, and I don't get bored cuz it's extremely technical with a lot to think about. In other words, something safe that gets ur adrenaline going.I understand what you mean about using a Stim to make yourself somthing you're not. It's definetly a moral deliemma, but it would be nice to make some friends, you know?
I keep telling myself off and on I need to find another hobby, but I just *forget*, and end up in front of the computer... how messed up is that? once I sell my truck, i was actually planning to try and find a nice old 4x4 yota
>
> BTY..I'm on effexor, strattera, and seroquel for sleep. The effexor works on depression fairly well, and the strattera helps with anxiety/hyperactivity. None of this crap works for SP very well. Ritalin does, but can't get it. Stick around this site for a while, there's tons of info and ideas on here. Aw-ight, I'm done babbling..Good luck PeaceI would still be on Strat had I not run out, it didnt hurt. except I slept 50% of the time it was in my system! And I think it made my night class harder(after it wore off)
Posted by King Vultan on December 3, 2004, at 23:48:57
In reply to Re: Help - AD for ADHD guy? other drugs?+long rant :-(, posted by JayDee on December 3, 2004, at 23:26:29
> Hi Todd,
>
> Thanks for the reply. I considered Wellbutrin, but unfortunatly I think I have too much general anxiety to handle it. My mother couldn't tolerate it AT ALL, too much anxiety. But she loves the Adderall.
> Has Wellbutrin been shown to have the neurotropic effects of the regular AD's?
>
> Parnate on the other hand is somthing that interests me ALOT. The diet restrictions do bother me, and I don't think the Doc would be too keen on a MAOI so quick. And I think I will end up on a Stim eventually, convincing the doc to combine MAOI and stim seems like a daunting task.
>
> Have you found Parnate to be as effective for your ADHD symptoms over the long term when compared to Wellbutrin?
>
> Thanks, J
>
It's hard for me to say which one is/was more effective for my ADD symptoms. I only took 300 mg/day of Wellbutrin SR, which is short of the maximum dose (and even on this dosage, I developed extreme irritability after a few months). I do think Parnate is a superior antidepressant and is also a more effective social phobia med than Wellbutrin, but all I can say about the effects on my ADD symptoms is that they are the two drugs I've tried that have behaved most similarly. As I believe I indicated, they are also the only two drugs I've tried that are overtly dopaminergic, as I have not tried a real stimulant, such as Ritalin or Adderall.
Todd
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