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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cubbybear on April 10, 2004, at 12:03:54
Would someone maybe be able to shed light on what happened to me today?: I take 30 mg./Parnate daily and have had success with it for 20 yrs. Today, I developed severe stomach cramps without diarrhea or vomiting and a feeling that I had had severe gas and overall stomach/intestinal dstress. The gastroenterologist suspected probable food poisoning (which I didn't think was possible with cramping alone) and what frightened me was seeing that my blood pressure had shot up to 188/120. Since I never had a history of hypertension, I first wondered about a freak hypertensive crisis but then thought it was so unlikely since I had no other symptoms of hypertensive crisis (e.g. headache) and hadn't eaten any of the contraindicated foods with Parnate.
I was given an injection of Buscopan, an antispasmodic/anticholinergic to stop the GI spasms but somehow I felt just as bad, if not worse after this injection. After i got home, I had a (belated) diarrhea attack which lent credence to it being food poisoning, and I felt better after that. Then, I had to contend with a feeling of severe lightheadedness and that I might faint after I got up from the bed and started walking. Perhaps this was a side-effect of the anticholinergic drug or a sign of dehydration, since I hadn't drunk water all day and it was hot and humid.
I read website info about anticholinergic drugs and it says that they adjust the balance of acetylcholine and dopamine. There's no prohibition given vs. MAOIs, so perhaps the lightheadedness was just a side effect. Then, again, what about my earlier HIGH blood pressure? Could food poisoning induce such a thing? I realize that there's a big complex set of factors here, and we're not doctors, but maybe one or more of you can shed light on the BP and anticholinergic questions. Thanks for any help.
Posted by King Vultan on April 10, 2004, at 19:54:53
In reply to Need advice fast--anticholinergics with MAOI's?, posted by cubbybear on April 10, 2004, at 12:03:54
Actually, spoiled food can induce a MAOI hypertensive crisis even if the particular food is not specifically prohibited. When protein rich food spoils, it can generate high levels of tyramine from protein decay just as tyramine is formed when aging cheese, salami, etc. This would tend to tie in with your food poisoning symptoms and extremely high BP.
I don't know at what point exactly that one develops a headache from excessive BP but suspect that it varies with the individual. In my case, I have essential hypertension with a normal BP of 140/90 and was on a low dose of desipramine once that increased it to 160/100 with no obvious symptoms. Your BP during your recent difficulty is similar, however, to what I've seen some other people report when they were having MAOI hypertensive crises. Were you taking an analgesic or something that could have been masking the pain of a hypertensive headache?
Todd
Posted by cubbybear on April 11, 2004, at 11:41:47
In reply to Re: Need advice fast--anticholinergics with MAOI's?, posted by King Vultan on April 10, 2004, at 19:54:53
> Actually, spoiled food can induce a MAOI hypertensive crisis even if the particular food is not specifically prohibited. When protein rich food spoils, it can generate high levels of tyramine from protein decay just as tyramine is formed when aging cheese, salami, etc. This would tend to tie in with your food poisoning symptoms and extremely high BP.
>
. Were you taking an analgesic or something that could have been masking the pain of a hypertensive headache?
>
> ToddHi Todd,
To answer your second question first--no I wasn't taking any analgesic that would have masked a headache. Yet your main point about the spoiled protein-rich food may very well be the key here. It had crossed my mind but I didn't post about it,since I thought it was far-fetched and again, I didn't have any headache.Normally, I buy (whole) milk in a 7-11 shop or the adjacent "V-Shop" (a competing convenience store chain here in Bangkok) right by my home. I'm familiar with these 2 particular retail sources and never had a problem with their milk. On the day of the stomach trouble/high BP, I had used milk that I purchased the day before at another 7-11, then placed the milk in the refrigerator at work. I poured some into my coffee at 11 A.M., and was hit with the stomach trouble at about 1:30 P.M. and the high BP shortly after. The expiration date on the container was OK, but perhaps either refrigerator wasn't cold enough and the milk had started to spoil. I could understand getting stomach cramps from unfresh milk. Yet, do you or anyone else out there believe that slightly spoiled milk could induce a hypertensive crisis? If so, wow, we MAOI users/milk drinkers had better be careful!
Posted by King Vultan on April 11, 2004, at 16:52:24
In reply to Re: MAOIs and bad milk?!? » King Vultan, posted by cubbybear on April 11, 2004, at 11:41:47
I suppose it's possible, but your milk sounds like it was probably okay, and you really didn't consume that much of it. The foods that I tend to think of that might be problematic when spoiled are things like liver and meat. I don't know if you consumed anything else at that time of day other than coffee. Of course, large amounts of caffeine can also trigger a hypertensive crisis, but I'm assuming there was nothing out of the ordinary here. Perhaps your BP was just extremely high due to the discomfort you were in.
Todd
Posted by Sad Panda on April 12, 2004, at 20:56:17
In reply to Re: MAOIs and bad milk?!? » King Vultan, posted by King Vultan on April 11, 2004, at 16:52:24
> I suppose it's possible, but your milk sounds like it was probably okay, and you really didn't consume that much of it. The foods that I tend to think of that might be problematic when spoiled are things like liver and meat. I don't know if you consumed anything else at that time of day other than coffee. Of course, large amounts of caffeine can also trigger a hypertensive crisis, but I'm assuming there was nothing out of the ordinary here. Perhaps your BP was just extremely high due to the discomfort you were in.
>
> Todd
>I'd be doubtfull that it would be the milk too. Sour milk & sour cream is supposed to be low in tyramine. I think the milk would have to be very rotten to cause a reaction.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by cubbybear on April 13, 2004, at 2:33:09
In reply to Re: MAOIs and bad milk?!?, posted by Sad Panda on April 12, 2004, at 20:56:17
> > I suppose it's possible, but your milk sounds like it was probably okay, and you really didn't consume that much of it. The foods that I tend to think of that might be problematic when spoiled are things like liver and meat. I don't know if you consumed anything else at that time of day other than coffee. Of course, large amounts of caffeine can also trigger a hypertensive crisis, but I'm assuming there was nothing out of the ordinary here. Perhaps your BP was just extremely high due to the discomfort you were in.
> >
> > Todd
> >
>
> I'd be doubtfull that it would be the milk too. Sour milk & sour cream is supposed to be low in tyramine. I think the milk would have to be very rotten to cause a reaction.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.Well, thanks anyway, everyone, I guess I'll never know what caused this freakish one-day sickness.
cubbybear
>
>
>
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