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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by rainyday on April 1, 2004, at 10:25:01
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 9:28:35
OK - propanolol is known as Inderal stateside. I used it FOR YEARS to control migraine. My understanding is that it regulates the blood flow to the heart. It is mostly used, however, for those with irregular heartbeat, high blood pressure, and other heart disorders. It's a beta blocker. I don't really understand why a doctor would prescribe it on a "as needed" basis, since taking it at the same every day is what would give you the maximum benefit. The only thing I could think of is that in some people, the medication can induce depression.
I guess I would ask your doctor what the benefits are of taking this med as needed rather than when you feel panicky. When I was taking it, I did notice a calming effect - and it has notoriously been prescribed to musicians who get "the nerves" before a performance. I was under the impression that it had to be taken everyday in order to be effective. (I also know that in the NHS, doctors are not used to patients questioning them. My GP when I lived over there was flabbergasted the first time I questioned what he was prescribing me - but in the end, he appreciated that I wanted to understand what I would be doing to my body.)
Finally, my doctors have been wary of prescribing benzos as well. The ultimate "cure" might not be a pill. Please don't give up. I don't if this helped or not.
Posted by rainyday on April 1, 2004, at 10:36:02
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 9:28:35
What is it in therapy that isn't working? I was going round in circles for quite a while there. Again, persistence pays off. I get so scared and impatient when I am having an attack that some relaxing techniques go straight out the window.
Posted by shadows721 on April 1, 2004, at 11:01:35
In reply to PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 8:51:54
The options left are mood stabilizers and antipsychotic meds. Some people state that Neurontin and/or Lamictal (sp?) help them. Secquel (sp?) helps me sleep. Do some research on these type of medications.
Posted by psychodad on April 1, 2004, at 11:49:52
In reply to PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 8:51:54
If the only reason MAOIs are out is because you're on the Atkins diet, I'd quit the Atkins diet. It is an unhealthy way to live anyhow. Focus on portion control and eating plenty of fruits, vegetables, and complex carbs AND EXCERCISE!!!! Don't drink beer and eat fatty cheeses and meats, take an MAOI if that is an option because they work well, or at least did for me once before. I've heard other people on this board also attest to the positive effects of MAOIs. Just a thought... Good luck!!
Posted by Dauphine on April 1, 2004, at 12:37:57
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by psychodad on April 1, 2004, at 11:49:52
Several years ago at the age of 22 and for no reason, my blood pressure went sky high and stayed there for several months (155/105 constant). They put me on a beta-blocker first called atenalol, and that brought my BP down, but caused me to be depressed and fatigued. Then they put me on an Ace Inhibitor, which also lowers BP. That worked better and did not cause any depression. I recently started Effexor XR at 75 mg/day, and my BP is starting to rise only after 2 weeks. Why can't the doctor prescribe an Ace Inibitor to counteract the AD BP effects? I would rather go on BP reducer than deal with messing up my brain chemistry by changing an AD. This seems like a solution to your problem of not being able to be on an SSRI because of BP effects.
Dauphine
Posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 14:07:51
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by psychodad on April 1, 2004, at 11:49:52
Hi there thanks for your opinion but i really can not give up the atkins diet, its the only diet thatsh elped me lose weight it seriousley is really good diet.. its not that bad at all.. i suffer with a womans problem called poly cystic ovary syndrome (pcos) and my gyni recommended this diet because of the low carb's, carbs is what slows down weight loss for ppl in my condition...
I would love to try an maoi i really would but am scared... i could cut the cheese out of my diet no probs but i would be a little weary eating meat... :(
I might go on an maoi when i have lost atleast 50 pounds then i will just change to weight watchers diet cus i would of shifted the hard weight..
Thanks anyways for your opinion. much appreciated :)
Regards
Donna
Posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 14:17:54
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by shadows721 on April 1, 2004, at 11:01:35
i like the sound of Neurontin... wonder if its available in the uk? i take remeron for sleep... i am interested in Neurontin though...
Thanks for the info..
Regards
Donna
Posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 14:21:29
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!! » crazychickuk, posted by rainyday on April 1, 2004, at 10:25:01
Hi guys ...
Well proponol was prescribed for me to take it when my hrt rate was up and the anxiety panick kicked in.. cus mine lasts for days he said for me to take it on onset and then my anxiety will be reduced but it isnt no good for me in the depression part of it.. if anything makes me depressed and yes my anxiety symptoms go away but then my chest hurts and i wheeze alot.. ( i dont have ashma, i just smoke alot) and ermmm my mind is panicking but my body isnt so i feel i am in someone elses bdy and can not get out.... i could have a heart attack but not show any symptoms just in my head kind of thing if you understand it..
I am gonna look up and gather as much info about Neurontin as i possibly can !!
Thanks for all you guys posting to me.. much appreciated..
Thanks again !!
Regards
Donna
Posted by greywolf on April 1, 2004, at 16:46:20
In reply to PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 8:51:54
Have you tried something other than an SSRI? Like bupropion (Wellbutrin) maybe? I don't believe bupropion is known to cause hypertension or adversely affect hypertension on a statistically known regular basis, and it is prescribed as an assist to those who wish to stop smoking (and they often have blood pressure issues). From personal experience I know it can cause some jitters, so you might need something to offset that. My doc gave me Xanax .5 up to 3x/day, but I use it sparingly. It's known as a minor tranquilizer, and although it may have addictive properties, at least my doc (and other's here) believes that it's a good med if used responsibly.
I haven't found an SSRI that is worth its side effects, but I can handle the Wellbutrin. Problem is that I'm on my second course of it over the last few years, and I'm not sure it does anything for my depression. I know other people have had better experiences with it, so it's worth another try.
Posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 17:05:58
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by greywolf on April 1, 2004, at 16:46:20
Wont prescribe me no benzo's..... i am just taking vitamin b, remeron, and omega 3 see how i go..
Thanks
Posted by Slinky on April 1, 2004, at 18:01:47
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE HELP!!! grey, posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 17:05:58
> Wont prescribe me no benzo's..... i am just taking vitamin b, remeron, and omega 3 see how i go..
Won't prescribe Buporion in uk either , banned because of sezure risk.
Unless you stop smoking they prescribe zyban- then only for 6 weeks.
They only give benzos if you're manic ...then only before bedtime or for alchohol withdrawal.
Posted by greywolf on April 1, 2004, at 18:48:57
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE HELP!!! grey, posted by Slinky on April 1, 2004, at 18:01:47
I'm a little confused, Slinky. You say they banned bupropion because of the seizure risk, but they'll prescribe Zyban? Since Zyban is bupropion and is often prescribed for smoking cessation at higher initial dosages than customary for bupropion as an AD, that doesn't make sense to me.
Or are you referring to the original Wellbutrin and not the newer sustained release version?
> > Wont prescribe me no benzo's..... i am just taking vitamin b, remeron, and omega 3 see how i go..
>
> Won't prescribe Buporion in uk either , banned because of sezure risk.
> Unless you stop smoking they prescribe zyban- then only for 6 weeks.
> They only give benzos if you're manic ...then only before bedtime or for alchohol withdrawal.
>
>
Posted by Slinky on April 1, 2004, at 21:48:23
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE HELP!!! grey » Slinky, posted by greywolf on April 1, 2004, at 18:48:57
Hi
Yes..they banned the original for depression.
Zyban is the sustained release version.
Posted by rod on April 2, 2004, at 4:00:04
In reply to PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 8:51:54
I would see a private Psych Doctor. The investion is worth it, if you dont have sigificant problems with money. This Doc could make the right diagnosis, and then your general doc prescribes the right drugs for you. Just see him once, get the right diagnosis, and get the right treatment. Private Docs often take 1 hour of time to talk to you and maybe cost around 100 € (~66 pounds). But i am sure thats worth it!
take care
Roland
Posted by crazychickuk on April 2, 2004, at 4:44:40
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by rod on April 2, 2004, at 4:00:04
If i could fine a pribate doc then i would go .... money no probs for me..
Posted by Sad Panda on April 2, 2004, at 8:06:09
In reply to PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 8:51:54
Hi CrazyChickUK! :)
You sound alot like my mother in some ways. She has panic attack & depression. For her Prozac & Valium are the bees knees. Without Valium she lives in a permanent sort of hell where she is too fearful to look out the windows. I think it sucks that the docs woun't give you any Benzos as for a lot of people they are the only thing that works. My mum takes just 2mg of Valium & has done so for more than 18 months with no need to increase the dose. It's just a bunch of bollocks that people are suiciding on them, less than 10% of suicide victims that are on Antidepressants use presrcibed drugs to do it. I know that we have probably been through this before, but, what Tricyclics have you tried & have you tried Effexor(I think you told me it pushed your BP up)? SSRI's are all simililar to each other, if they work, it's just a matter of picking the one with the least side effects. Tricyclics are very many & varied & it is worth trying another even if the first is a failure. Beta blockers taken as required is probably as close as you are going to get to Benzos. They lower the heart rate & break the brain - body - brain panic cycle. They are no good full time because they make it hard to exerecise & you will just become breathless. They are normally taken full time by people after they have had a heart attack, so they can preserve the remains of a failing heart.
Does the UK govenment have a website that tells you what drugs you can actually have? It varies in alot in every country, eg, Clomipramine, arguably one of the best AD's ever was first used in France around 1966 I think, but we didn't get it here in Australia until about 1983 I think. I think the FDA in the US totally rejected it too on the grounds that it was a 'me too' drug that was just following Imipramine's lead, yet these very same people allow a zillion SSRI's to hit the market. (Secret answer to this involves $$$ ofcourse)
Anyhow, enough waffling, what other TCA's have you tried? Have you ever had trouble with antihistamines like Phenergan & Polarmine?
Also, you say: "I am very anxious, nervous, timid, some times depressed, bad panick attacks, can get manic eppisodes(not bad just a high feelin, anxious i suppose)"... Does this 'high feeling' & depression alternate on a regular basis?Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by crazychickuk on April 2, 2004, at 9:05:39
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!! » crazychickuk, posted by Sad Panda on April 2, 2004, at 8:06:09
Hi panda... long time no type... how r u?
Ok trylics i tryed only prothidan and trazodone, doc said if i have bad reaction to 2 of them then i will the rest of them.... ( my hrt felt like it was gonna stop and i had apanick reaction to both of them)
Ssri's are a no no they all raise my bp and effexor and reboxatine do to..
Valuim is great fair doo's i have 2 2mg here in the cupboard for complete emergency's, i get a prescription for 4 every 6 mnths for my gyni appointments...
I am at a loss...
I get a manic high feeling just being over anxious for a few weeks then a week or 2 being depressed, withdrawn, and cant manage my thoughts al to good, no energy, you know severly depressed.. NOW its the depression that i hate the worst cus i feel like i am gonna kill my self, or do something bad to my little girl, etc... i did tell this to my physc... then when i get those weeks of being to anxious i can not be around ppl i am likely to get more panick attacks, it feels like i am on drugs, my bottom lip rattles and my eyes are big and i can not sit down..
When i get pancik attacks its usually about a health problem, for example i can get shooting pains in my breast i start to panick that i am having a hrt attack, i get palpitaions i panick i am gona have a hrt attack, my leg hurts i panick i got dvt, my head hurts i panick i am having a brain hemerage etc etc..
Its horrible and these anxious weeks can last weeks, that certain symptoms can last daysand i panick for days...
I am so at a loss :(
Posted by Sad Panda on April 2, 2004, at 10:38:20
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 2, 2004, at 9:05:39
> Hi panda... long time no type... how r u?
>
> Ok trylics i tryed only prothidan and trazodone, doc said if i have bad reaction to 2 of them then i will the rest of them.... ( my hrt felt like it was gonna stop and i had apanick reaction to both of them)
>
> Ssri's are a no no they all raise my bp and effexor and reboxatine do to..
>
> Valuim is great fair doo's i have 2 2mg here in the cupboard for complete emergency's, i get a prescription for 4 every 6 mnths for my gyni appointments...
>
> I am at a loss...
>
> I get a manic high feeling just being over anxious for a few weeks then a week or 2 being depressed, withdrawn, and cant manage my thoughts al to good, no energy, you know severly depressed.. NOW its the depression that i hate the worst cus i feel like i am gonna kill my self, or do something bad to my little girl, etc... i did tell this to my physc... then when i get those weeks of being to anxious i can not be around ppl i am likely to get more panick attacks, it feels like i am on drugs, my bottom lip rattles and my eyes are big and i can not sit down..
>
> When i get pancik attacks its usually about a health problem, for example i can get shooting pains in my breast i start to panick that i am having a hrt attack, i get palpitaions i panick i am gona have a hrt attack, my leg hurts i panick i got dvt, my head hurts i panick i am having a brain hemerage etc etc..
>
> Its horrible and these anxious weeks can last weeks, that certain symptoms can last daysand i panick for days...
>
> I am so at a loss :(
>
>Prothidan is the ugliest/worst possible TCA to take, it is by far the most toxic. Trazodone isn't a TCA, it's not even close. Remeron is as close to a TCA as you can get without being a TCA. Have you tried a mood stabilizer like Lithium, Depakote or Lamictal as you sound more like a BiPolar person. I would put Neurontin behind those three on drugs to try. Another possible to try before Neurontin would be Topamax.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Sad Panda on April 2, 2004, at 11:04:47
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 2, 2004, at 9:05:39
I've just been looking around the UK NHS website at the list of drugs you can get in the UK.
http://www.nmhct.nhs.uk/pharmacy/contents.htmI found a page where it says Librium, Rivotril, Valium, Ativan & Serenid are available on the UK NHS for anxiety.
http://www.nmhct.nhs.uk/pharmacy/anx1.htmI think I would be doctor shoping for someone who is less benzophobic because short term they can allow you to try alot of different AD's & mood stabilizers & long term they are still the best option for some people.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by terrics on April 2, 2004, at 16:11:50
In reply to PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 8:51:54
Hi, Propranolol is a good med for anxiety. It is a blood pressure medication which was found to work on stage fright and then also on anxiety. [I take it for tremors which are a side effect of lithium,and accidently found it works almost as well as benzos for anxiety,for me anyway]. You wrote that something about it bothers you? If you have highs and lows lithium works well but has a number of side effects. What symptoms do you want treated? And why isn't the pdoc doing this for you? terrics
Posted by crazychickuk on April 3, 2004, at 7:51:27
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!! » crazychickuk, posted by terrics on April 2, 2004, at 16:11:50
Thanks panda very interesting i will look into it and do some searches... and thanks terrics..
Regards
Donna
Posted by glenn on April 3, 2004, at 9:35:55
In reply to PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 8:51:54
Hi , I am from england too, my advice would be to try and get clonazepam ( klonopin as our american friends call it). It's therapeutic effects seems to fit your symptoms very well and in the bnf and mims ( the reference books they look drugs up in)it is listed as an anti convulsant, it is in fact a benzo but you may manage to get it as many are not aware of that.
If necessary ask for a short trial, ie a weeks worth, then report back .
0.5- 1 mg at night usually helps.
Iknow your frustration with this lot over here, that's why my shrink is an american.Glenn
Posted by rod on April 3, 2004, at 9:44:05
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!!, posted by crazychickuk on April 2, 2004, at 4:44:40
> If i could fine a pribate doc then i would go .... money no probs for me..
What about asking the people at "Mind"?
I am sure they can recommend you a good private psychiatrist. Or look into the telephone book. Maybe you can find a number and adress of an advice center for people with psychologic problems, and ask them. I am alost sure, such things exist in the UK.Roland
Posted by crazychickuk on April 3, 2004, at 9:56:04
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE PLSE READ AND HELP!!! » crazychickuk, posted by rod on April 3, 2004, at 9:44:05
I am gona look into that get a private physciatrist... i aint getting anywhere with the nhs..
Posted by jdgjdg on April 5, 2004, at 22:09:46
In reply to Re: PPL WITH EXPERIENCE PLSE HELP!!!psychodad, posted by crazychickuk on April 1, 2004, at 14:07:51
Have you thought about the "Sugar Buster's Diet"? It is much easier to follow and a lot healthier for you. I'm a nurse and know that you should never completely eliminate a food group from your diet. You just can't live healthy on meat and cheese alone. It works for the short term, but it's a lifestyle change you need to make. The "Sugar Buster's Diet" allows lean meat like chicken and turkey, fresh fruits and veggies, beans and legumes, etc. It really is a healthier lifestyle. There is a book by the same title that explains the diet in detail.
I also think that you should invest the money to go and see a psychiatrist. It is much more expensive than a regular doctor, but wouldn't you go and see a heart doctor for a heart problem? Psychiatrists are experienced treating the symptoms you explained. I think you can get a lot better if you have a doctor who really knows about the medicines. Take care of yourself. Jenn
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