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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on November 15, 2003, at 15:59:40
How much oxycodone must one take to obtain an antidepressant effect? How long does it take to work?
Thanks in advance.
- Scott
Posted by hawkeye on November 15, 2003, at 23:50:04
In reply to Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by SLS on November 15, 2003, at 15:59:40
I think the correct dose of Oxycontin for depression is 0(ZERO)mgs/day.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 16, 2003, at 3:14:15
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by hawkeye on November 15, 2003, at 23:50:04
Should work in about 30 minutes. I wish they would prescribe that for depression. Careful though, it's addictive!
Elle
Posted by TJO on November 16, 2003, at 8:48:54
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by hawkeye on November 15, 2003, at 23:50:04
Hi Scott:
Here is the dosage-this is from someone's post on PB
By the way I do take vicodin for depression at 5/500 in the evening. My psychiatrist prescribes it. I think that if I could take 3 or 4 5/500s a day without becoming tolerant it would eliminate the rest of my depression. Alas, vicodin doesn't work that way, at least for me.
Also here is the longer post the above except was taken from-
A large percentage of people respond well to opioids, depressed or not. I've generally looked forward to things like wisdom teeth being pulled because I know I'll be on vicodin for a day or two. The improvement in mood that I get (and I believe many others get) is remarkable. Indeed before the discovery of the first antidepressants opioids were commonly prescribed for depression.
The problem with opioids is tolerance. Almost everyone develops it sooner or later. So if you're going to use opioids to treat depression, take as little as possible and as mild as possible an opiod. In addition take opioid holidays. I don't know how long they would have to be, and they wouldn't feel like holidays. Other possibilities are mixed agonist antagonists like buprenorphine, which is supposed to produce less tolerance, or tramadol a very week opioid that is also supposed to produce less tolerance.
There is some possibly very good news coming from a company called Pain Therapeutics who are in clinical trials of two drugs, one a morphine formulation and one an oxycodone formulation. The trick of these new drugs is they contain very small amounts of an opioid antagonist (I'm not sure whether it is naloxone or naltrexone). On the surface it sounds silly, but the researchers who founded the company found that the addition of microdoses of antagonists with opiod agonists not only improved analgesia in rats but seemed to block the development of tolerance. Now Murphy's law says that along with the lack of tolerance will come lack of euphoria :( I hope not though.
By the way I do take vicodin for depression at 5/500 in the evening. My psychiatrist prescribes it. I think that if I could take 3 or 4 5/500s a day without becoming tolerant it would eliminate the rest of my depression. Alas, vicodin doesn't work that way, at least for me.
In hopes of better living through better chemistry,
Britt
Also this link might be helpful- http://opioids.com/tramadol/ultramantidep.html
Tammy
Posted by Bananafish on November 16, 2003, at 9:50:23
In reply to Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by SLS on November 15, 2003, at 15:59:40
I agree with Hawkeye completely--the correct dose of Oxycodone for anything except pain is zero. However if you do take it, it works very quickly. You will likely experience a mood lift with the very first tablet in about 15-20 minutes. Be forewarned--this stuff ruined my life. My psychiatrist rx'd me hydocodone (Vicodin) for about 2 years to help boost my antidepressants. It worked, but slowly and secretly I became a fiend. I was taking a month's supply in only 3-4 days, and sleeping most of the time. Then he switched me to Oxycontin--it was much stronger. Without going into a long story, suffice it to say that I lost my job, my car, my apartment, and most of my belongings. That was almost exactly 3 years ago, and I am just getting back on my feet.
I know you are saying that I just weak-willed and that sort of thing could never happen to you, but that was just what I thought. It can happen. Be careful with OxyContin--it is very, very addictive.
Posted by Sabina on November 16, 2003, at 10:35:28
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by Bananafish on November 16, 2003, at 9:50:23
my sister-in-law, who suffers from depression, is a recovering anorexic, and once attempted suicide, has been successfully managing her depression for over a year with a continued, steady dose of ultram (tramadol) and nothing else. she is carefully monitored by her pdoc, but it seems to work for her. i'm *not* saying that she heads up the church bake sale and runs the canned food drive while being a full time mom with a smile always on her face, but she is much better this past year than i've ever seen her.
Posted by SLS on November 16, 2003, at 11:05:15
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by Sabina on November 16, 2003, at 10:35:28
I am quite desperate to find anything that will work to relieve me of a very refractory and unremitting bipolar depression. I have tried most everything over these last twenty years with little success. Considering my lack of alternatives, I think it is appropriate to consider treatments that are not considered mainstream. I am very appreciative of the input, both positive and negative, regarding the use of opioids to treat affective disorders. Even if oxycodone were to produce a positive effect, its short half-life and tendency to produce tolerance make it difficult to work with. I really would like to use it as a biological probe, perhaps helping to select future treatments. If it helps, I would probably try tramadol (Ultram).
- Scott
Posted by SLS on November 16, 2003, at 11:13:57
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by SLS on November 16, 2003, at 11:05:15
Regarding tolerance to opioids, a drug recently became available that is touted by some as being capable of preventing it. The drug is called memantine (Namenda), and is currently indicated for the treatment of Alzheimers Dementia. I don't have much of a feel as to how effective it might be, but it has been reported to prevent and even reverse the tolerance to the analgesic effects of morphine in mice.
- Scott
Posted by Peter S. on November 16, 2003, at 22:40:15
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by SLS on November 16, 2003, at 11:13:57
Hi Scott,
Have you tried Buprenorphine? Anyone else had success with this?
Peter
> Regarding tolerance to opioids, a drug recently became available that is touted by some as being capable of preventing it. The drug is called memantine (Namenda), and is currently indicated for the treatment of Alzheimers Dementia. I don't have much of a feel as to how effective it might be, but it has been reported to prevent and even reverse the tolerance to the analgesic effects of morphine in mice.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Elle2021 on November 17, 2003, at 3:55:08
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by TJO on November 16, 2003, at 8:48:54
You are SO fortunate that your doc prescribes Vicodin for your depression! I wish mine would, I do so much better when I'm taking it. When I was on it, I was maintaining a full time job...when I'm on anti-depressants...well, thats a different story.
Elle> Hi Scott:
>
> Here is the dosage-this is from someone's post on PB
>
> By the way I do take vicodin for depression at 5/500 in the evening. My psychiatrist prescribes it. I think that if I could take 3 or 4 5/500s a day without becoming tolerant it would eliminate the rest of my depression. Alas, vicodin doesn't work that way, at least for me.
>
> Also here is the longer post the above except was taken from-
>
> A large percentage of people respond well to opioids, depressed or not. I've generally looked forward to things like wisdom teeth being pulled because I know I'll be on vicodin for a day or two. The improvement in mood that I get (and I believe many others get) is remarkable. Indeed before the discovery of the first antidepressants opioids were commonly prescribed for depression.
>
> The problem with opioids is tolerance. Almost everyone develops it sooner or later. So if you're going to use opioids to treat depression, take as little as possible and as mild as possible an opiod. In addition take opioid holidays. I don't know how long they would have to be, and they wouldn't feel like holidays. Other possibilities are mixed agonist antagonists like buprenorphine, which is supposed to produce less tolerance, or tramadol a very week opioid that is also supposed to produce less tolerance.
>
> There is some possibly very good news coming from a company called Pain Therapeutics who are in clinical trials of two drugs, one a morphine formulation and one an oxycodone formulation. The trick of these new drugs is they contain very small amounts of an opioid antagonist (I'm not sure whether it is naloxone or naltrexone). On the surface it sounds silly, but the researchers who founded the company found that the addition of microdoses of antagonists with opiod agonists not only improved analgesia in rats but seemed to block the development of tolerance. Now Murphy's law says that along with the lack of tolerance will come lack of euphoria :( I hope not though.
>
> By the way I do take vicodin for depression at 5/500 in the evening. My psychiatrist prescribes it. I think that if I could take 3 or 4 5/500s a day without becoming tolerant it would eliminate the rest of my depression. Alas, vicodin doesn't work that way, at least for me.
>
> In hopes of better living through better chemistry,
>
> Britt
>
>
> Also this link might be helpful- http://opioids.com/tramadol/ultramantidep.html
>
>
> Tammy
>
Posted by Jiggitykid on November 17, 2003, at 8:28:50
In reply to Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by SLS on November 15, 2003, at 15:59:40
DO NOT EVER take a pain med to boost mood. You will become addicted quickly. Take pain meds for pain only. Misuse of pain meds makes it harder for people like me with real pain disorders (do you have a pain disorder?) to obtain the proper pain treatment. DO NOT do this. Get a good physician and a reputable therapist. Anyone who is any good at all would not suggest you do this.
Posted by Bananafish on November 17, 2003, at 10:23:53
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by Jiggitykid on November 17, 2003, at 8:28:50
I understand your point, and agree that rapid addiction occurs in a lot of people. Just read my post above. But there are schools of thought that some people are deficient in endogenous opioids and that this is the root of their mood disorder. There definitely are some instances where judicious use of opioids is appropriate in psychiatry under close supervision. And I'm not so sure I agree with your inference that a physical pain disorder is more "real" than a mental illness. I think most of us here would agree that the anguish of mental illness can be very "painful" indeed.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 17, 2003, at 17:07:02
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by Bananafish on November 17, 2003, at 10:23:53
Posted by Flipsactown on November 18, 2003, at 8:13:56
In reply to Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by SLS on November 15, 2003, at 15:59:40
I have been prescribed 160mgs daily of oxycontin for chronic back pain I suffered from a traffic accident for the past 2 years. I can tell you from experience that it is not an anti-depressant. I take prozac, remeron and now lamictal for my depression. I wished that oxy had an antidepressant effect. Then I would not have to be on so many antidepressants. I have been on antidepressants for 12 years. I was on heavy doses of tylenol/codeine for 10 years prior to taking oxy as I could not tolerate vicodin. If anything the oxy may be exacerbating my depression. That is my layman's opinion.
Flipsactown
> How much oxycodone must one take to obtain an antidepressant effect? How long does it take to work?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on November 18, 2003, at 8:42:39
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by Flipsactown on November 18, 2003, at 8:13:56
I decided to give Vicodin (hydrocodone + acetaminophen) a try. I took 1 tablet on Friday and experienced nothing except maybe some constipation the next day. Yesterday, I tried 2 tablets, which is equivalent to 10mg hydrocodone. There was absolutely no hint of an antidepressant effect. All I experienced was some sleepiness.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on November 19, 2003, at 11:32:31
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by SLS on November 18, 2003, at 8:42:39
Has anyone had success with hydrocodone or Vicadin for treating depression?
- Scott
Posted by dandelion on November 19, 2003, at 15:28:16
In reply to How about hydrocodone?, posted by SLS on November 19, 2003, at 11:32:31
i have to be blunt. one may experience a slighty "heady" feeling on hydrocodone (vicodine, percocet, etc.)....where you can sort of float aimlessly throughout the day, with a faint smile on your face....but it is can be one EVIL drug.
as with oxycotin, hydro and all the rest, can become extremely addictive. i work as a social worker with chemically dependent and mentally ill adults. one of my clients virtuallyh threw his life away, after becoming addcited to Oxy. he started with hydro and went from there. These pills are just another simple way to self medicate. Some chose cocaine, others alcohol, some weed. As far as i know, there have never been any studies done relating to the positive effects of hard core analgesics as use for antidepressants. Do yourself a favor, and see a psy. they'll be able to prescribe something safer and more effective. In the end, my client ended up going to jail 3 times for stealing prescriptions, stealing pills, forging, and dealing. His wife left him, and moved out of state with his beautiful 3 year old daughter. He subsequently od'd. All from one night of thinking the "high" off of oxy and vicodin could erase the pain of his mental illness...
Posted by Elle2021 on November 20, 2003, at 3:35:15
In reply to How about hydrocodone?, posted by SLS on November 19, 2003, at 11:32:31
> Has anyone had success with hydrocodone or Vicadin for treating depression?
Yes, I have had success treating my depression with Vicodin. But, it has a tendancy to make me paranoid and depressed in other ways...if that makes sense.
Elle
Posted by Alexander on November 20, 2003, at 10:08:13
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by Jiggitykid on November 17, 2003, at 8:28:50
> DO NOT EVER take a pain med to boost mood. You will become addicted quickly. Take pain meds for pain only. Misuse of pain meds makes it harder for people like me with real pain disorders (do you have a pain disorder?) to obtain the proper pain treatment. DO NOT do this. Get a good physician and a reputable therapist. Anyone who is any good at all would not suggest you do this.
Nonsense - depression is a disease with a very much higher "mortality rate" than pain + psychological pain is now pretty much recognized to be a form of pain that is much more severe than physical pain.
See for yourself: type into Google "college of physicians and surgeons Ontario" click on publications, or news, or so, and then on tne article that says: "opioid therapy for non-malignant pain". This article tries to tell it's doctors that the college is anything but "opioidphobic" and that as a matter of fact not a single physicuan has been investigated, who has been Rx'ing opioids "in good faith". The article also touches anxiety with this advice:
SSRI's -> other AD --> Benzos --> Seconal --> opioids.Let's face it: it's crooks that make it so much harder for everyone to get what they need. medical crooks, and there are lots of them.
Posted by jerrympls on November 21, 2003, at 1:54:41
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much?, posted by Alexander on November 20, 2003, at 10:08:13
How do you people find psych docs who are willing to prescribe Vicodin to augment your AD's? Vicodin has ALWAYS been the best antidepressant for me. I once took it after surgery for 2 months - NO tolerance. I felt great. Things were finally shaping up in my life.
Ugh..if you think Oxycontin and Vicodin are terrible meds - try working with an MAOI - they can cause DEATH if you accidentally combine OTC cough medicine or Nyquil or something ( recently accidentaly took a couple teaspoons of Nyquil with Nardil - and almost died that night. My body was shaking so severely they had to put me in ICU and in a special bed so I wouldn't fall out. It was HORRIFYING. They thought I had kidney failure, etc...luckily I didn't) There are far more terrible meds out there than opioids.
P.S. HI Ame Sans Vie!! We need to chat!!
Posted by SLS on November 21, 2003, at 7:28:59
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much, posted by jerrympls on November 21, 2003, at 1:54:41
> Vicodin has ALWAYS been the best antidepressant for me. I once took it after surgery for 2 months - NO tolerance. I felt great. Things were finally shaping up in my life.
Hi.
Thanks for your contribution to this thread.
Did you feel better after the very first dose?
- Scott
Posted by jerrympls on November 22, 2003, at 2:56:54
In reply to Re: Oxycodone (Oxycontin) for depression: How much » jerrympls, posted by SLS on November 21, 2003, at 7:28:59
> > Vicodin has ALWAYS been the best antidepressant for me. I once took it after surgery for 2 months - NO tolerance. I felt great. Things were finally shaping up in my life.
>
> Hi.
>
> Thanks for your contribution to this thread.
>
> Did you feel better after the very first dose?
>
>
> - ScottYes - always felt better after the first dose.
This is the end of the thread.
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