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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cobamis on September 7, 2003, at 12:30:20
anyone have a suggestion on how to sleep better while going thru these lovely withdrawals from Effexor. Went from 75mg to 37.5 plus 150mg Wellbutrin for a week and then off effexor all together Wed 9/3 and 300 mg of Wellbutrin. I haven't slept since then and yes, I have all the rest of those withdrawl symptoms (nausea,dizzyness, brain fog). I think I can deal with all of them except the lack of sleep. That's what go me on these things in the first place ( due to degenerative disk disease and lack of sleep for 5 years). I went off 1mg of Kolonopin in May and my PCP thinks my body is having a hard time adjusting to all these changes. Of course her answer was to see a shrink that specializes in "female depression". I think she is totally unaware of the withdrawal symptoms from effexor. I am a pharmaceutical rep and believe me, she will hear about them from me so she can warn others of these withdrawals.
Anyway, back to the original question...HELP, need sleep. I sell Tylenol PM, guess I can try that..but any other sugestions??
Posted by Guy on September 7, 2003, at 12:55:59
In reply to lack of sleep, posted by cobamis on September 7, 2003, at 12:30:20
Try 15 mg of Remeron. Take only for a few days then cut that in half and finally stop. I have found this drug causes vivid dreams, but it is better than no sleep and it is not too hard to discontinue. Your mileage may of course vary.
Posted by cobamis on September 7, 2003, at 13:09:35
In reply to Re: lack of sleep, posted by Guy on September 7, 2003, at 12:55:59
thanks for the suggestion, will it help with the vertigo too? Did you have any withdrawal from the remeron? This is day 5 of no effexor..this sucks!!!
Posted by Guy on September 7, 2003, at 15:18:40
In reply to Re: lack of sleep, posted by cobamis on September 7, 2003, at 13:09:35
I've no idea about vertigo as that has never been a problem for me. However, it seems reasonable to assume that the vertigo will subside with time. I've found the Remeron very easy to discontinue, especially if you keep the dose low. Keep in mind that the key to sleep is relaxation. You have to stop your thoughts from racing and try to relax your mind and body. If you relax enough, you will fall asleep.
Posted by cobamis on September 7, 2003, at 18:10:04
In reply to Re: lack of sleep, posted by Guy on September 7, 2003, at 15:18:40
Thanks Guy. I took 75mg of Effexor because I felt so horrible and feel semi normal. I think I will be able to sleep tonight and tomorrow I will speak to my old pain clinic to see if they recommend a different way of doing this. There is NO way I can work, I'm a drug rep..(ironic huh?) due to driving and the head thing. How long did the symptoms last for you?
Posted by loolot on September 7, 2003, at 21:39:20
In reply to Re: lack of sleep, posted by cobamis on September 7, 2003, at 13:09:35
> thanks for the suggestion, will it help with the vertigo too? Did you have any withdrawal from the remeron? This is day 5 of no effexor..this sucks!!!
Benedryl helped me a lot to lessen the shocks, nausea, vertigo through my effexor withdrawal. It also made me sleepy. You could try it...
Posted by cobamis on September 7, 2003, at 21:43:27
In reply to Re: lack of sleep, posted by loolot on September 7, 2003, at 21:39:20
Thanks loolot. Ironically, I sell Tylenol PM, which has benedryl in it, so I plan on taking 2 tonight and hopefully get some sleep. I took one this afternoon, along with 75mg of effexor, cuz I couldn't stand it anymore. I am following up with a doctor again tomorrow.
Posted by Bill L on September 8, 2003, at 8:36:09
In reply to lack of sleep, posted by cobamis on September 7, 2003, at 12:30:20
I like the over the counter sleep aids that contain antihistamines.
Posted by CamW. on September 8, 2003, at 9:56:52
In reply to Re: lack of sleep, posted by Bill L on September 8, 2003, at 8:36:09
Bill - Almost all OTC sleep-aids contain the antihistamine, diphenhydramine (eg. Benadryl™). Sleep is induced by the strong antimuscarinic properties of this drug (a similar side effect is seen with Clozaril™ (clozapine).
The main problem with using OTC antihistamines for sleep is that although they do put you to sleep, they don't give you a restful sleep. The antihistamine prevents one from attaining REM sleep. The REM (rapid eye movement) phase of sleep is the dream phase, where the body is thought to be consoldating and strengthening certain synapses, grow new neurons/dendrites, and prune others.
If OTC sleep-aids are used on a very regular basis, one runs the risk being more tired than they would have been had they stayed up all night. In other words, these OTCs will get you to sleep, but they won't give you a restful sleep.
Just some thoughts - Cam
Posted by cobamis on September 8, 2003, at 10:40:57
In reply to Re: lack of sleep » Bill L , posted by CamW. on September 8, 2003, at 9:56:52
Cam and Bill: Thanks to both of you for your help. I am a drug rep and one thing I promote is Tylenol PM. Yes it does help one sleep, if benedryl has the sedating effect on you. It can wire some people, or just not work. In my case it didn't work. I just spoke with a nurse at my gyn office who is familiar with effexor withdrawals (finally found someone) and she's putting me back on at 37.5 for a week, then 1 every other day for a week and so on till I'm off. In the meantime, for GOOD sleep , she's writing Ambien, which IS an RX sleep aid, mostly for short term, but some are on it for a long time. I can't imagine it's a good thing to get your body hooked on ANOTHER pill just to get rid of another, but for 10 days, it won't hurt.
This site has been a HUGE help for me through a very tough 4 days and thank all of you for your suggestions. I'll keep you posted
Posted by CamW. on September 8, 2003, at 13:10:06
In reply to Re: lack of sleep, posted by cobamis on September 8, 2003, at 10:40:57
cobamis - If you have trouble (ie. withdrawl effects) when taking 37.5mg of Effexor XR™ (venlafaxine - ext. rel.) every other day, you could consider adding Prozac™ (fluoxetine 10mg to 20mg daily) to the daily Effexor. Take both ADs for a week, then stop the Effexor and take the Prozac for one more week, then stop.
The extremely long half-life of Prozac is well over 100 hours (including psycho-active metabolites), so the drug leaves your body much more slowly than Effexor. The half-life of Effexor XR is only about (aboot) 18 - 20 hours (give or take); with the regular-acting Effexor (which is taken three times daily) one can begin to feel withdrawl symptoms within 8 hours of a missed dose. I know that if I miss a day of Effexor I feel out of sorts; if I miss 2 days in a row I really feel like .... uh .... excrement).
Most people are able to withdraw from Effexor (and Paxil™ [paroxetine], and Zoloft™ [sertraline]) using the above method. I have come across a doc who uses the regular strength Effexor™ (venlafaxine) and multiple daily dosing if a person is unable to comfortably stop after a couple of weeks at 37.5mg daily. This method does work, but it is finicky and a pain where I would put a window (guess we're not s'pose to cuss anymore, huh .... shi .... er, crap); one has to be fairly motivated (or anal retentive, or compulsive, or .... I can say "anal" can't I?).
Hope that this is of some help. - Cam
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 8, 2003, at 13:45:23
In reply to lack of sleep, posted by cobamis on September 7, 2003, at 12:30:20
Posted by Festus on September 8, 2003, at 22:16:05
In reply to Trazadone, Benedryl, Tyl-PM: From best to worst (nm) » cobamis, posted by KimberlyDi on September 8, 2003, at 13:45:23
That is very interesting about the Prozac used to get off the others.I did not know Prozac had such a long half-life.Festus
Posted by Bill L on September 9, 2003, at 9:52:49
In reply to Re: lack of sleep » Bill L , posted by CamW. on September 8, 2003, at 9:56:52
Good points. Based on limit experience of friends who take Ambien, I would guess that Ambien is one's best bet for sleep problems.
> Bill - Almost all OTC sleep-aids contain the antihistamine, diphenhydramine (eg. Benadryl™). Sleep is induced by the strong antimuscarinic properties of this drug (a similar side effect is seen with Clozaril™ (clozapine).
>
> The main problem with using OTC antihistamines for sleep is that although they do put you to sleep, they don't give you a restful sleep. The antihistamine prevents one from attaining REM sleep. The REM (rapid eye movement) phase of sleep is the dream phase, where the body is thought to be consoldating and strengthening certain synapses, grow new neurons/dendrites, and prune others.
>
> If OTC sleep-aids are used on a very regular basis, one runs the risk being more tired than they would have been had they stayed up all night. In other words, these OTCs will get you to sleep, but they won't give you a restful sleep.
>
> Just some thoughts - Cam
This is the end of the thread.
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