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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by male34 on March 1, 2003, at 10:34:24
In reply to Re: MAGNESIUM-CAN IT HELP WITH SLEEP?, posted by Tabitha on February 28, 2003, at 14:33:45
try it with calcium magnesium and magnese
Posted by KrissyP on March 1, 2003, at 13:59:32
In reply to Re: MAGNESIUM-CAN IT HELP WITH SLEEP?, posted by male34 on March 1, 2003, at 10:34:24
Thanks Tabitha-will do:)
Kristen
Posted by beardedlady on March 1, 2003, at 16:35:33
In reply to Re: MAGNESIUM-CAN IT HELP WITH SLEEP? » male34, posted by KrissyP on March 1, 2003, at 13:59:32
I saw this stuff on an infomercial and bought it from ebay last year. I just noticed the expiration date of 7/2002, so it's probably lost its effectiveness, but:
It has 400 mg. of Calcium Gluconate, 200 mg. of Magnesium Carbonate, 500 mg. of vitamin C, ascorbic & citric acid, and unsweetened lemon juice powder. You're supposed to make a drink out of it three times a day.
As I recall, all the research I did at the time I bought it said this was the exact combo (which someone here said--2:1 Calc: Mag.) to take, including the vitamin C.
Has anybody used this stuff and found it effective?
Thanks!
beardy : )>
Posted by KrissyP on March 1, 2003, at 17:31:51
In reply to CalMax--Everyone, Please read!, posted by beardedlady on March 1, 2003, at 16:35:33
I am in the states, are you , and did you get it in the states? I am going to look for it-sounds awesome! Thanks, Kristen
Posted by beardedlady on March 1, 2003, at 17:54:12
In reply to Re: CalMax--Everyone, Please read! » beardedlady, posted by KrissyP on March 1, 2003, at 17:31:51
Posted by bluedog on March 2, 2003, at 23:20:28
In reply to CalMax--Everyone, Please read!, posted by beardedlady on March 1, 2003, at 16:35:33
>
(which someone here said--2:1 Calc: Mag.) >
>
> Thanks!
>
> beardy : )>
Hi BeardyI feel like gloating. I said that here :)))))).
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030224/msgs/204932.html
love
bluedog
Posted by bluedog on March 2, 2003, at 23:30:17
In reply to they have a web site, but it's cheaper on ebay! (nm) » KrissyP, posted by beardedlady on March 1, 2003, at 17:54:12
Hi Viridis and Larry
I'd really love your input and thoughts on the this whole magnesium subject.
Can you confirm that the info I gave in my posts above is completely accurate (I have provided links to these posts below). I think I'm pretty accurate but I would hate to be giving out any advice that may not be COMPLETELY accurate.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030224/msgs/204849.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030224/msgs/204932.html
Thanks guys
warm regards
bluedog
Posted by beardedlady on March 3, 2003, at 8:38:24
In reply to Re: CalMax--Everyone, Please read! » beardedlady, posted by bluedog on March 2, 2003, at 23:20:28
Someone as smart as you should be, oh, I dunno, dating a yoga girl or something. ; )>
So do you use CalMax, and does it help you sleep?
beardy : )>
Posted by IsoM on March 3, 2003, at 15:36:54
In reply to Re: Mg Supps. - VIRIDIS and LARRY HOOVER, posted by bluedog on March 2, 2003, at 23:30:17
Hey blue, want to hear my take on the subject? Of course you do!
High amounts of calcium at one time are not as well absorbed as smaller doses through the day. The body becomes less efficient at absorbing calcium if plentiful & more efficient when less is taken. Vitamin D is required for active transport of calcium ions in the small intestines. There's also certain substances that inhibit the absorption by binding with the calcium ion to form insoluble salts that are excreted instead. Phylates (found in the bran of grains) & oxalates (found in spinach, rhubarb, & some other greens) form insoluble salts so better to take your calcium at a diff time than those foods.
Calcium chloride is somewhat irritating to most people's intestinal tract & that's one reason chelated calcium is recommended> But even calcium carbonate is well absorbed in any one with sufficient stomach acid. All calcium salts get converted to ionic form anyway & it's only the calcium ion that's transported across the intestinal membrane. I've never had heart burn or tasted acid in my mouth if I had a "big burp" so I do take chelated calcium
The saem goes for magnesium too. It dissolves into ionic form so even magnesium oxide works just fine for most people. You only end up paying more for fancy formulations. If you want magnesium citrate (like I use), you can buy it in liquid form at the druggist as it's used as a laxative in large amounts. (100 ml or cc of magnesium citrate liquid as sold in drug stores contains contains a little more than 1.0 grams (1000 mg) elemental magnesium. If I'm incorrect in my calculations, I hope Larry or viridis will correct me.
While both calcium & magnesium work closely together in our body, each one inhibits the absorption of the other. They act as antagonists, not synergists when taken at the same time. Still, I wouldn't be overly concerned about taking them together as there's many foods that contain them both, or meals we eat that have both. The popular combo of chocolate cake & a glass of milk is one - chocolate's high in magnesium while milk has calcium. Larry mentioned that this antagonist effect isn't when the foods containing them are eaten together but when blood levels are higher in one of them than it should be. I'm not sure on this myself.
So if you're talking the two together, I'd suggest taking smaller amounts with your meals rather than one large dose at a time. For me, taking magnesium in the morning or evening or any other time of day has never made any difference.
What I can say with a certainty is to make sure you get vitamin D in your diet as low levels will only mean the calcium is wasted. I found taking magnesium made a HUGE difference with my absorption of vitamin B6. I may have a fairly high need of magnesium as I showed B6 deficiency symptoms that wouldn't respond to anything till I added the magnesium. Few days later, they were gone completely.
Posted by IsoM on March 3, 2003, at 16:05:40
In reply to Calcium and Magnesium » bluedog, posted by IsoM on March 3, 2003, at 15:36:54
I forgot to include this site on magnesium in my last post. It's put together by an RN & her info is pretty good. It's s about headaches & magnesium but has info that pertains to its other benefits too.
http://www.headachepainfree.com/Unfortunately, there's no one easy answer for everyone but still, take a look.
Posted by KrissyP on March 3, 2003, at 19:48:13
In reply to Calcium and Magnesium » bluedog, posted by IsoM on March 3, 2003, at 15:36:54
Hey there:-) May I ask what you mean by this--
"I found taking magnesium made a HUGE difference with my absorption of vitamin B6. I may have a fairly high need of magnesium as I showed B6 deficiency symptoms that wouldn't respond to anything until I added the magnesium. Few days later, they were gone completely."
That is great. Your post interested me as I am in the process of trying to find the "right" cal-mag supplement AND good ole Vitamin B's for stress. I liked your example of the chocolate cake and milk-BINGO. I used to take both Calcium and Magnesiumm together-no problem. I've slipped so I was interested in your post. Could ya help me out? I get so confused with all these vitamins, etc. but I know when I took Calcium and Magnesium-it did wonders for sleep and my health-how I felt.
Thanks,
Kristen:-)
Hey blue, want to hear my take on the subject? Of course you do!
High amounts of calcium at one time are not as well absorbed as smaller doses through the day. Calcium chloride is somewhat irritating to most people's intestinal tract & that's one reason chelated calcium is recommended> But even calcium carbonate is well absorbed in any one with sufficient stomach acid. All calcium salts get converted to ionic form anyway & it's only the calcium ion that's transported across the intestinal membrane. I've never had heart burn or tasted acid in my mouth if I had a "big burp" so I do take chelated calcium
While both calcium & magnesium work closely together in our body, each one inhibits the absorption of the other. They act as antagonists, not synergists when taken at the same time. Still, I wouldn't be overly concerned about taking them together as there's many foods that contain them both, or meals we eat that have both. The popular combo of chocolate cake & a glass of milk is one - chocolate's high in magnesium while milk has calcium. Larry mentioned that this antagonist effect isn't when the foods containing them are eaten together but when blood levels are higher in one of them than it should be. I'm not sure on this myself.
So if you're talking the two together, I'd suggest taking smaller amounts with your meals rather than one large dose at a time. For me, taking magnesium in the morning or evening or any other time of day has never made any difference.What I can say with a certainty is to make sure you get vitamin D in your diet as low levels will only mean the calcium is wasted. I found taking magnesium made a HUGE difference with my absorption of vitamin B6. I may have a fairly high need of magnesium as I showed B6 deficiency symptoms that wouldn't respond to anything till I added the magnesium. Few days later, they were gone completely.
Posted by IsoM on March 3, 2003, at 23:47:03
In reply to Re: Calcium and Magnesium » IsoM, posted by KrissyP on March 3, 2003, at 19:48:13
Like most women, my need for nutrients went up when I was preganant, but while eating good & taking supplements was enough for most nutrients, I started showing B6 deficiency signs in my 2nd pregnancy. My lips initially were chapped but it progressed till they were raw & the redness extended beyond my lip line. In the morning, I woke with my lips sealed shut with a dry crust that oozed out during the night. I had to soak my lips to soften it before I could open them.
I did checking about - my doctor was baffled - & found it was a B6 deficiency even though I was taking B vitamins. Further checking showed the link between magnesium & B6. It only improved when I took extra magnesium.
There's other signs that I have a fairly high need of B complex vitamins & magnesium, & my health is better when I take extra - more than my diet can provide. I take a good B supplement; a stress formulation has the best ratios of the diff B vitamins, plus I take nutritional yeast most of the time that I remember to. I don't believe in a "right" calcium/magnesium supplement but I do believe in the right ratio. It's a 2:1 for cal:mag.
Posted by KrissyP on March 4, 2003, at 0:38:13
In reply to Re: Calcium and Magnesium » KrissyP, posted by IsoM on March 3, 2003, at 23:47:03
Wow-I'm sorry you had to go through that with your lips OUCH:-( It sounds like you are doing better. I'm sitting here looking at a bottle of "Stresstabs" it has 250%(5mg) of Vit B6, but no Magnesium. I also have "Slow-Mag" with 32% Magnesium(128mg) and Calcium. A while ago (like a year),I tried a brand "Soloray"-Cal-Mag and it was GREAT! 2:1 ratio Calcium-Magnesium I believe more in the ratio too, but I really liked Soloray. I need to find it again. I slept better, and I felt better overall in combo with taking my psych meds. I think I have a good combo here-I just need to give it time. I started yesterday, hopefully it will help. I like the "Stresstabs", seems to have a great balance of the B vitamins something I definately need.
Thank you for your reply:-)
Kristen
-------------------------------------------------> Like most women, my need for nutrients went up when I was preganant, but while eating good & taking supplements was enough for most nutrients, I started showing B6 deficiency signs in my 2nd pregnancy. My lips initially were chapped but it progressed till they were raw & the redness extended beyond my lip line. In the morning, I woke with my lips sealed shut with a dry crust that oozed out during the night. I had to soak my lips to soften it before I could open them.
>
> I did checking about - my doctor was baffled - & found it was a B6 deficiency even though I was taking B vitamins. Further checking showed the link between magnesium & B6. It only improved when I took extra magnesium.
>
> There's other signs that I have a fairly high need of B complex vitamins & magnesium, & my health is better when I take extra - more than my diet can provide. I take a good B supplement; a stress formulation has the best ratios of the diff B vitamins, plus I take nutritional yeast most of the time that I remember to. I don't believe in a "right" calcium/magnesium supplement but I do believe in the right ratio. It's a 2:1 for cal:mag.
Posted by IsoM on March 4, 2003, at 2:02:41
In reply to Re: Calcium and Magnesium » IsoM, posted by KrissyP on March 4, 2003, at 0:38:13
The lips thing happened more than 26 years ago (that's how old my 2nd one is) & I learned early about my B requirements. I used to manage a health food store many years ago too but I wanted to know much more so I've continued to learn. I've taken some university science a fe3w years back.
I'm glad you've got good stress tabs - they never include magnesium, just B vitamins, C, & sometimes zinc or iron. You're better off taking supplements with foods as that's where we neormally find our nutrients - in food. B vitamins are water soluble so taking them on an empty stomach with only water will flush most of it out in your urine. If you think about it almost all vitamins, minerals, & other nutrients occur in foods that stay a while in our stomachs. Only fruits & some vegetables are cleared out fairly quickly. Makes me think vitamin C doesn't need the stomach full to benefit from it. Still, I can't say there's any studies backing this up but it seem sensible to draw conclusions like this from what we find naturally.
Rather than looking for a brand, why not look for the calcium & magnesium commpounds that were used in Soloray instead? It doesn't matter where a certain form of calcium comes from if it's the same compound.
Posted by beardedlady on March 4, 2003, at 6:58:09
In reply to Re: Calcium and Magnesium » KrissyP, posted by IsoM on March 4, 2003, at 2:02:41
Posted by IsoM on March 4, 2003, at 9:37:24
In reply to What's wrong with CalMax? (nm) » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on March 4, 2003, at 6:58:09
Nothing's wrong with it, Beardy, but I do think the label is a little misleading. It says that:
"Other calcium supplements in tablet form may include antacids to reduce irritation of your stomach as the tablets dissolve. However, this same antacid may interfere with calcium absorption."
Yet magnesium carbonate, which it contains, is considered an antacid (it's found in Mylanta).You have to know how to read claims. Note it says "MAY include" & "MAY interfere" & "MAY be less effective" for the other products. Yes, & our sun MAY go supernova some day. Do you see what I mean? Really, few people have problems with utilizing the calcium & magnesium supplements they take. Most with stomach problems have too much acid, not too little.
Anyway, it's a fine product even if pricey. Just don't take a large amount at one time. Our bodies were designed to absorb only so much at one time. Yet that's why most people want a supplement with high numbers - so they only neeed take it once a day. It doesn't work that way.
Posted by beardedlady on March 4, 2003, at 9:58:40
In reply to Re: What's wrong with CalMax? » beardedlady, posted by IsoM on March 4, 2003, at 9:37:24
Well, frankly this stuff is a bother. To have to come down before bed and make hot water and measure cold water and mix and add fruit juice. Blech. And it is expensive.
Do you know a supplement with 2:1 that you recommend? I would only take it at night.
I know about those claims, and I know about May. (Did you see "How to Get Ahead in Advertising"? If you didn't, you MUST. It is a HOOT.
Now someone please talk me out of ordering a stupid Q-Ray ionized bracelet.
beardy : )>
Posted by KrissyP on March 4, 2003, at 11:20:59
In reply to Re: Calcium and Magnesium » KrissyP, posted by IsoM on March 4, 2003, at 2:02:41
Good for you for continuing to learn iso:-) I do think vitamins do wonders along with a decent diet. I have slipped on that aspect. exactly, the "Stresstabs" include 833%(500mg) of Vit C,100%(400mcg) of Folic Acid, 159%(23.9mg)Zinc,
but no iron. Thanks for your advice on the Soloray brand-you're right, I will look for the ratio thing (Calcium/Magnesium)
Thank you, you provided a lot of info-I will definately consider.
Have a good one:-)
Kristen
-------------------------------------------------The lips thing happened more than 26 years ago (that's how old my 2nd one is) & I learned early about my B requirements. I used to manage a health food store many years ago too but I wanted to know much more so I've continued to learn. I've taken some university science a fe3w years back.
I'm glad you've got good stress tabs - they never include magnesium, just B vitamins, C, & sometimes zinc or iron. You're better off taking supplements with foods as that's where we neormally find our nutrients - in food. B vitamins are water soluble so taking them on an empty stomach with only water will flush most of it out in your urine. If you think about it almost all vitamins, minerals, & other nutrients occur in foods that stay a while in our stomachs. Only fruits & some vegetables are cleared out fairly quickly. Makes me think vitamin C doesn't need the stomach full to benefit from it. Still, I can't say there's any studies backing this up but it seem sensible to draw conclusions like this from what we find naturally.
Rather than looking for a brand, why not look for the calcium & magnesium commpounds that were used in Soloray instead? It doesn't matter where a certain form of calcium comes from if it's the same compound.
Posted by KrissyP on March 4, 2003, at 12:20:25
In reply to Re: What's wrong with CalMax? » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on March 4, 2003, at 9:58:40
hey there,
I bought one of those ionized bracelets and it helped-I thought. My migraines lessened and I felt energized-no shoot. BUT--I also read somewhere that it is a hoax. Different strokes for different folks..............
Good luck:-)
Kristen
-------------------------------------------------
Now someone please talk me out of ordering a stupid Q-Ray ionized bracelet.
beardy : )>
Posted by IsoM on March 4, 2003, at 14:10:33
In reply to Re: What's wrong with CalMax? » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on March 4, 2003, at 9:58:40
Okay, I'll talk you out of it. ^_^
Do you know if you buy & wear that bracelet, you'll find that next you'll buy a inconspicuous head band with wiggling antennae attached, then next get your ears surgically altered to look like Spock's, only to progress on to building a landing site for UFOs in your back yard. Don't do it, Beardy!! Think of the shame your family will feel. Think of the cost of green make-up you'll start hording in case of a world wide shortage. If you want to get ionized, just shuffle your feet across the carpeted floor, or else rub blown balloons in your hair. Much cheaper & not so obvious that you're crazy.Okay, my take on cal/mag supplements. First a bit of background info, somewhat useless & boring...
Do you know that studies have found that the less educated a person is (generalising), the more they buy expensive brand names? In other words, less educated people are more gullible to advertising hype. It was found that those with a better education were more likely to buy no name or cheaper brands! Education was only a gudieline on how knowledgeable folks were. A bright person without a high school diploma is just as likely.SO... bearing that in mind, go to whatever drug store or Wal-Mart type store you shop at & ask for their store brand. Check out the labels to find what you need. Dozens of stores put out their own - all containing the same stuff. Did you know that there's a number of mega laboratories that manufacture these supplements for whoever asks them to & puts their labels on it? Same with stuff like ketchup, mustard, etc - big factories make them for the different compnaies putting different labels on them. Some have their own formulations they get the factories to use but still, the ingredients are the same.
Save your money to send me those antennae on a head band.
Posted by beardedlady on March 4, 2003, at 14:26:53
In reply to CalMax and Ionized Bracelet » beardedlady, posted by IsoM on March 4, 2003, at 14:10:33
is that I looked at all the labels and found lots of calcium + D and calcium + magnesium in weird ratios and high doses. So I'm trying to figure out what is the best combo, not what is the best brand.
I always by the second cheapest thing that fits the bill, and I usually take the estimate in the middle. It's just a weird policy I have.
As for the bracelet, I was just kidding--playing off the fact that I bought an infomercial product (though I did so at ebay for a lower price!).
bleardy : )>
Posted by IsoM on March 4, 2003, at 16:07:47
In reply to the reason I asked... » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on March 4, 2003, at 14:26:53
Does that mean you won't send me a set of wiggling antennae? Darn!
Ratio is 2 to 1 for calcium to magnesium. My intake of vitamin D is high too, higher than most people take (about 1000-1500 IU per day). Surely you can something that fits that ratio. I know there's lots of diff brands where I live that do. I wouldn't worry overly about having the exact ratio as you're going to be getting it from foods too. It's just that the balance shouldn't be way out - all calcium, no magnesium or vice versa.
Posted by KrissyP on March 4, 2003, at 19:20:13
In reply to CalMax and Ionized Bracelet » beardedlady, posted by IsoM on March 4, 2003, at 14:10:33
ISO!!!!!!! You are too funny. "A headband with wiggling antennae"? Good point:-) It's just the visual I got when I read all your reasons not to get a bracelet. As far as store brand supplements-I agree. My friend is an RN and she buys Walgreen's brand of "compare to Centrum" and it helped her just the same. It's all about the almighty dollar for some companies huh?! :-)
Anyway, interesting post.
Kristen----------------------------------------
Okay, my take on cal/mag supplements. First a bit of background info, somewhat useless & boring...
Do you know that studies have found that the less educated a person is (generalising), the more they buy expensive brand names? In other words, less educated people are more gullible to advertising hype. It was found that those with a better education were more likely to buy no name or cheaper brands! Education was only a gudieline on how knowledgeable folks were. A bright person without a high school diploma is just as likely.
SO... bearing that in mind, go to whatever drug store or Wal-Mart type store you shop at & ask for their store brand. Check out the labels to find what you need. Dozens of stores put out their own - all containing the same stuff. Did you know that there's a number of mega laboratories that manufacture these supplements for whoever asks them to & puts their labels on it? Same with stuff like ketchup, mustard, etc - big factories make them for the different compnaies putting different labels on them. Some have their own formulations they get the factories to use but still, the ingredients are the same.
Save your money to send me those antennae on a head band.
Posted by IsoM on March 5, 2003, at 1:37:32
In reply to Re: CalMax and Ionized Bracelet » IsoM, posted by KrissyP on March 4, 2003, at 19:20:13
Posted by mtdew on October 31, 2003, at 22:21:14
In reply to Re: CalMax and Ionized Bracelet » IsoM, posted by KrissyP on March 4, 2003, at 19:20:13
This logic might not apply to vitamins and supplements, which are not regulated by the FDA. The only example I can think of is SAM-e, which reportedly varies greatly in quality between different brands. I have begun buying my vitamins at a health-food store instead of Rite-Aid just in case, since they are rather expensive and I don't want to throw money away.
mtdew
<snip>
>
> Okay, my take on cal/mag supplements. First a bit of background info, somewhat useless & boring...
> Do you know that studies have found that the less educated a person is (generalising), the more they buy expensive brand names? In other words, less educated people are more gullible to advertising hype. It was found that those with a better education were more likely to buy no name or cheaper brands! Education was only a gudieline on how knowledgeable folks were. A bright person without a high school diploma is just as likely.
>
> SO... bearing that in mind, go to whatever drug store or Wal-Mart type store you shop at & ask for their store brand. Check out the labels to find what you need. Dozens of stores put out their own - all containing the same stuff. Did you know that there's a number of mega laboratories that manufacture these supplements for whoever asks them to & puts their labels on it? Same with stuff like ketchup, mustard, etc - big factories make them for the different compnaies putting different labels on them. Some have their own formulations they get the factories to use but still, the ingredients are the same.
>
> Save your money to send me those antennae on a head band.
>
This is the end of the thread.
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