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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by justyourlaugh on December 13, 2002, at 14:27:30
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please. » justyourlaugh, posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 13:08:25
hi jay-wow you have been busy posting.
i live in canada,
my pdoc is the head of the hospital(ontario)
he doesnt know what he is doing any more than i do.
i take wellbutrin,thyroid stuff?and seroquel.
he told me to "pop"a few seroquel into me if i feel like i am going off the deep end again??
i took 400 dollars to a bar-they cut me off
and kicked me out(pushed really)dont like to be touched.stuck at hospital for 2days-:(
jyl-thanks forletting me get it out hun.
Posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 15:08:27
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by fuzzymind on December 13, 2002, at 1:59:50
> I have been very angry , defensive and irritable for going on 2 decades. Getting a cat 3 years ago has calmed me down a bit, but I am still enraged when someone disagrees with me ,and I relive events, vividly, over and over again with peole who not bullied me and used me as an emotional punching bag, but with people who simply disagreed with me, or strangers who I had encounters with. I am very insecure, have bare minimal self-esteem, and suicidal. SO much self-hatred, hatred of my parents who still deny I was suicidal or depressed in HS ieven though I attempted suicide on more thatn one occasion!!! YOu aren't alone , but I don't have any solutions.
Hi:
Have you, or you, in any type of therapy...and/or are you taking medications?
Thnx,
Jay
Posted by ItsHowdyDudytime on December 13, 2002, at 17:39:06
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
>
> Right now..I am just on Risperdal. I am miserable, angry, and absolutely hate anybody who causes me *any* problems. This can be anybody..from my Mom to anybody on the street.
>
> My temper is just ready to crack..and antidepressants and 'mood stabalizers' don't bring much relief...and can often make things *worse*.
>
> Is it possible for someone to be in such a state of depressed anxious psychosis that *everything* makes me miserable? Geezzus...I just want some relief..please! Any special med combo or such? I've been grinding at this for 10 years. I just want to yell, cry, scream. This isn't just a few months or a couple of years..it is a decade!! If there is no hope...why even bother with carrying on...it's just pain. Any help...please.
>
> Thank you,
> Jay
Here is my advice. I had "extreme anger" in the beginning months of my depression which was years ago. This was because my depression was steroid induced, from prednisone. Prednisone just set me off and changed my personality completely. Since then, my anger/irritability has gradually waned, now to the point where I no longer really feel all that irritable beyond a basic depression type irritability that mainly only shows up when im off antidepressants.First of all, anger has gotten a bad rap in psychiatry. Its the one emotion you cant have and get away with, psychiatrists dont like it because it means you are a "high risk-high liability" patient for them (high lawsuit risk). Many of them prefer to use atypical anti-psychotics for anger, even if you arent psychotic or manic, particularly in males who exhibit anger/irritability.
However the reality of the situation is that anger, even extreme, is a totally normal part of many forms of severe mental illness. Its just something you have to learn to live with, deal with and try to combat it with drugs the best you can. Generally, combatting the UNDERLYING major mental illness will dissipate anger/irritability. Whether it be severe male depression, bipolar manic depression or whatever, treating that underlying Axis I disorder with the appropriate class of meds willtend to get rid of most of that anger.
Male depression is notorious for severe anger and irritability and is a sign of low serotonin levels and being very unhappy and frustrated with one's life. Treatment in that case involves antidepressants.
In your case, where you claim antidepressants and even mood stabilizers worsen your anger, that is a bad sign and probably points to bipolar disorder or some form. Usually, antidepressants make people nicer, calmer, more relaxed. When they do the opposite,thats a very bad sign. You have diagnosis issues that need attending to.
Oddly, low testosterone levels in men can cause bad irritability and mood swings. Youd think it would be the opposite, that low testosterone levels would make men turn into a wuss, but it can be the opposite. Low testosterone can cause a man to become very grouchy and mean.
Another thing thats bad for anger is booze. Booze can make some people extremely mean and angry and if you drink much and your Pdoc knows it, you place yourself in a high liability risk. Cut out all booze, all street drugs to start with if you do any of that stuff.
If psychosis is truly the underlying cause of your "anger" then longterm treatment with anti-psychotic drugs will probably be in order. If you are unsure of your dx, some neuropsychological testing might be in order such as the Rorschach test, the TAT test, etc. Although oftentimes schizophrenics are very withdrawn socially and dont exhibit many emotions, good or bad.
I bet you have major diagnosis issues to figure out, just a hunch. Other good advice for you if you are male and have bad anger/irritability symptoms is to AVOID using female mental health professionals as much as possible, if at all avoid them totally. Female mental health professionals are much more sensitive to male anger/aggression/irritability, even if its not your fault and is just a symptom of your severe mental illness. Stick to male mental health workers, male psychiatrists, etc. They are less sensitive to these issues and tend to not make as big a deal out of it as females do.
Howdy Doody
Posted by Aadika on December 13, 2002, at 19:41:27
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
Just a brief reply, and I hope this helps, I have a very severe problem with anger, irritability, hostility, etc, etc, etc. But I've found that both Catapres (clonidine) and Inderal (propranolol) are wonderful at controlling these floodings of emotion. I've tried B-blockers other than Inderal and they just don't seem to work. Well, just my two cents. Good luck!
~ Aadika
Posted by highanxiety on December 13, 2002, at 19:48:44
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
Is Risperidal an anti-psychotic? The reason I am asking is that my father was an incredibly angry person (very bi-polar) and nothing worked with him (of course getting him to stay on anything was another issue) until someone prescribed haldol to him at the end of his life. Worked like magic. If the drug you are taking is NOT an anti-psychotic, have you tried one? If it is, then my suggestion might not be appropriate to your situation.
Posted by Aadika on December 13, 2002, at 19:50:51
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Ple, posted by highanxiety on December 13, 2002, at 19:48:44
Yes, Risperdal is an atypical anti-psychotic.
~ Aadika
Posted by ItsHowdyDudyTime on December 13, 2002, at 20:23:02
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Ple, posted by Aadika on December 13, 2002, at 19:50:51
> Yes, Risperdal is an atypical anti-psychotic.
>
> ~ AadikaTreatment of aggression is an "off label" use of Risperdal. In fact, all anti-psychotics are used "off label" to treat aggression without psychosis or mania. It has even been proposed by some extremist factions in society that prisons put prisoners on anti-psychotic drugs to make it easier to control prison populations, however this is illegal and is considered to be "cruel and unusual punishment" and thus is against the U.S. Constitution.
Using anti-psychotics, even in low dosages for treatment of aggression, hostility, irritability, etc. in the absence of frank psychosis or mania is an inappropriate use of neuroleptics. Its known as "behavioral control" in psychiatry, something psychiatry is famous for that goes back to the olden days when most mentally ill were institutionalized in large, abusive, state hospitals that resembled minimum security prisons. ECT (shock treatment) was also used for behavioral control at one time in a manner very similar to the way neuroleptics are currently used "off label." However ECT for behavioral control has been made illegal for a good thirty years now.
Its high time to make the practice of using neuroleptics for behavioral control illegal as well. Patients prescribed neuroleptic drugs should be required to read and sign informed consent forms, warning them of the potential movement disorder dangers of these drugs.
IMO, the only use for any neuroleptic medication should be to correct, control and manage thought disorders such as schizophrenia or schizo-affective disorder and in some cases psychotic mania. Thats what these drugs were developed for, not for "off label" uses of treating aggression.
Using drugs like Risperdal to treat schizophrenia is a perfectly acceptable and desireable course of action. Using Risperdal to control "aggression" however, is not OK and should be legislated against and psychiatrists who practice in this manner should be sued out of existence.
Howdy Doody
Posted by ItsHowdyDudyTime on December 13, 2002, at 20:29:08
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Ple, posted by ItsHowdyDudyTime on December 13, 2002, at 20:23:02
There is an actual psychiatric or medical term for the use of anti-psychotic drugs to control aggression in non psychotic populations. Its called "serogenics." I think thats the way its spelled at least. I read about it over on the American College of Neuropsychopharmacology website. Serogenics is basically nothing more than using neuroleptics for behavioral control in unruly or aggressive people, who do not have thought disorders or mania. Its something that a civilized, Western country shouldnt tolerate and it should be outlawed.
ECT for behavioral control was outlawed thirty years ago. Its time for serogenics (neuroleptics for aggression) to be outlawed as well. Its morally wrong, considering the potential movement disorder dangers these drugs pose.
Howdy Doody
Posted by snowden on December 13, 2002, at 20:36:22
In reply to Re: about having a cat... » jay, posted by IsoM on December 13, 2002, at 2:40:48
Oh Thank you for posting that!! I thought I was the only one...
Posted by fuzzymind on December 13, 2002, at 23:59:58
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please. » fuzzymind, posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 15:08:27
> > I have been very angry , defensive and irritable for going on 2 decades. Getting a cat 3 years ago has calmed me down a bit, but I am still enraged when someone disagrees with me ,and I relive events, vividly, over and over again with peole who not bullied me and used me as an emotional punching bag, but with people who simply disagreed with me, or strangers who I had encounters with. I am very insecure, have bare minimal self-esteem, and suicidal. SO much self-hatred, hatred of my parents who still deny I was suicidal or depressed in HS ieven though I attempted suicide on more thatn one occasion!!! YOu aren't alone , but I don't have any solutions.
>
> Hi:
>
> Have you, or you, in any type of therapy...and/or are you taking medications?
>
> Thnx,
> Jay
>
>
Tried therapy and medications 6 years ago for 3 months. My shrink gave me an umtimatum to get better or she would stop treatment. I stopped and I totally lost it. Tried again with the same therapist beginning of 2001...no improvement...last saw her end of 2001. I beleive I was making a little progreess at the time i saw her 6 years ago, but the ultimatum she gave me freaked me out. I NEVER meet the right people
Posted by IsoM on December 14, 2002, at 0:52:08
In reply to Re: about having a cat... » IsoM, posted by snowden on December 13, 2002, at 20:36:22
I'm never mean to my cats when I'm down - I just ignore them. They're not used to that as they follow me from room to room like little kids. The join in whatever I do & cuddle when I sit down. But when down, my inactivity increases. They get lonely & bored, & and up sleeping much more or being naughty like fighting with each other or chewing on my plants. That's when I tend to yell at them. They act the same as little children do when no one pays attention to them either.
Posted by jay on December 14, 2002, at 1:35:38
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
From being p*ssed off to crying a river...and is it Lorazepam that exists at the end of that river?..heh...;-/
This morning I went and visited my best friend's grave, and brought some fresh flowers for him.. He died (either killed himself or accidental gunshot...not knowing has been a big part of my pain) in 1989 at 19 years of age...and the tears started, and damn they would not stop. Then I got onto thinking of my ex-girlfriend's miscarrage, and how I lost out on becoming a Dad, and how that was a *loss*...and just more of how I am a failure..and everything was LOSS LOSS loss...gone..goodbye...and by then I was crying while driving around the city. Gawwddamn it was *bad*...and it didn't stop until I got home and my Dad gave me a couple of lorazapam, which really helped soothe me...and he let me talk...and I talked to my Mom...My parents are very intelligent, articulate people, and we got into some really deep philosophical 'meandering', I call it. You know..being a knowledgeable, educated and 'person of considerable depth' REALLY f'ing sucks when you are depressed! Dante's Hell revisited...
By early afternoon I was a bit better. Gezzus..the ones you love are truly the ones who can make you feel better.I am a guy who is *not* afraid to cry in front of people..and I do it a lot...but when it is *non-stop*...I know I am in a *deep* depression. At heart, beyond the anger, I am a caring, sensitive, loving guy. Maybe it's just this world doesn't cherish those values in men...but f*** them, bunch of insensitive, Nazi idiots..(hey..I didn't SAY the 'bad' word..heh (sorry...some 'leftover' anger mixed in..heehe)
Ok...so I took Lorazepam and lived happily ever after...well, dammm, maybe not...but maybe I am on the right road. The Road...ohhhh boy..
Posted by IsoM on December 14, 2002, at 1:45:08
In reply to Re: about having a cat... » snowden, posted by IsoM on December 14, 2002, at 0:52:08
Posted by fuzzymind on December 14, 2002, at 7:17:20
In reply to Re: about having a cat... » snowden, posted by IsoM on December 14, 2002, at 0:52:08
> I'm never mean to my cats when I'm down - I just ignore them. They're not used to that as they follow me from room to room like little kids. The join in whatever I do & cuddle when I sit down. But when down, my inactivity increases. They get lonely & bored, & and up sleeping much more or being naughty like fighting with each other or chewing on my plants. That's when I tend to yell at them. They act the same as little children do when no one pays attention to them either.
My cat floowos me around like a dog...everywhere. But that doesn't do anything to raise my self-esteem or my depression. She is cute and loves to use me as an electric blanket. but it that doesn't make me feel any better. I never play with her, but she seems like she has a lot of self-esteem, and is ble to entertain herself.
Posted by kara lynne on December 14, 2002, at 15:02:59
In reply to Re: about having a cat..., posted by fuzzymind on December 14, 2002, at 7:17:20
I bet she would still like it if you played with her a little. Hopefully you still pet her some. Sorry, this is my Achilles Heel-- I can't stand the thought of a neglected or lonely animal (not that you are neglecting yours). I guess it's where I project all my pain. Probably this thread will soon be redirected, but I just needed to respond. Meow.
Posted by fuzzymind on December 14, 2002, at 19:57:49
In reply to Re: about having a cat..., posted by kara lynne on December 14, 2002, at 15:02:59
> I bet she would still like it if you played with her a little. Hopefully you still pet her some. Sorry, this is my Achilles Heel-- I can't stand the thought of a neglected or lonely animal (not that you are neglecting yours). I guess it's where I project all my pain. Probably this thread will soon be redirected, but I just needed to respond. Meow.
How is she lonely? She is with me 24 hours a day. Give me a break. I can't beleive this is happening to me. Literally every contact I have with people, I am criticize for something.
Posted by snowden on December 14, 2002, at 20:11:00
In reply to snowden?, posted by IsoM on December 14, 2002, at 1:45:08
thanks for the link...
I hope you didn't take offense to my post, I just meant that I tend to "go off" on my own feline companion when he's driving me a little insane (i.e. waking me up at 5 a.m. on the weekend, sticking his wet nose in my eye, etc.)...
Posted by kara lynne on December 14, 2002, at 20:38:38
In reply to Re: about having a cat..., posted by fuzzymind on December 14, 2002, at 19:57:49
I am not saying your cat is lonely. Please forgive me if I phrased myself in a way that made you feel criticized. I just feel over sensitive where animals are concerned-- I should have made a more general statement rather than a response to your post. I'm sure your cat is not lonely if you are with her 24 hours a day. Sorry for upsetting you.
Posted by fuzzymind on December 15, 2002, at 1:59:05
In reply to Re: about having a cat..., posted by kara lynne on December 14, 2002, at 20:38:38
> I am not saying your cat is lonely. Please forgive me if I phrased myself in a way that made you feel criticized. I just feel over sensitive where animals are concerned-- I should have made a more general statement rather than a response to your post. I'm sure your cat is not lonely if you are with her 24 hours a day. Sorry for upsetting you.
o problem i anger very easily, and anger over specific incidents can stay with me for 2 decades. i felt i was being singled out . i don't play fetch with her, nut i give her lots of hugs and kisses and she is my nap partner. as i type, she is on my chest/lap/left arm, purring to her hearts content. hence no capital letters. maybe she is trying to make me feel better.
there isnt one perfect way to please a cat. i got very defensive because abusive psycho bullies have been picking me apart all my life.
Posted by IsoM on December 15, 2002, at 3:10:41
In reply to Re: snowden? » IsoM, posted by snowden on December 14, 2002, at 20:11:00
No, it wouldn't even occur to me to get offended over what you said. In fact, I had to go back to see how any one could take it wrong. Just thought the cartoon was funny. I know all about cats driving one nutty.
One of my cats loves to sit on my lap as I use the computer. Unfortunately, she likes to lay her head on the keyboard - very difficult to type. Another one sometimes sits beside me when I eat at the sofa. He won't take my food from the plate but will use a paw to try to pull the forkful of food I'm lifting to my mouth over to his mouth instead. Very funny when I feel good, annoying when I'm not.
And lastly, my little 'girl' rustles through my bedroom stuff when she wants me to wake up. She makes enough noise to let you know she's getting into things she's not supposed to. AND she only does it to wake me up! One of my sons, when he was still at home, banned her from his room. She would wrap a paw around something on his dresser & pull it onto the floor with a thump, then watch him for his reaction to see if he woke up. They're naughty but sweet.
Posted by kara lynne on December 15, 2002, at 3:21:35
In reply to Re: about having a cat..., posted by fuzzymind on December 15, 2002, at 1:59:05
You're absolutely right, there is no one way to please a cat-- they're all so different. Actually, my cat is the one I worry about, she's very needy and I feel bad when I have to leave her. Also, I really understand about not being able to let go of things for decades, and I sincerely hope not to be another source of that happening for you. One of the things I hope for in finding the right combo of meds is that I will be able to let go of things quicker, because I also have that problem, and it can be quite painful. I know people have said that's a Dopamine thing that maybe Wellbutrin will help. So far I am still searching. In the meantime, you sound like a very good cat father and I'm glad she has you. My cat is really the only constant in my life, and of course I obsess about her too! Well, here's to both our healing and the end of all abusive psycho-bullying. And again, I'm sorry not to have thought through my original post a little better.
Posted by vickisnowwhite on December 15, 2002, at 8:23:41
In reply to Re: about having a cat..., posted by kara lynne on December 15, 2002, at 3:21:35
I was very very angry, mad with the world and everything (even my beloved cat) until the pdoc added an antipscyhotic (perphenazine) to my prozac. The anger slowey diminished, (I was extemely angry for about 15 years of my life 15years old to 30) (i'm 44 now) but since the antipscyhotic, i'm rarely angry anymore, and never never angry at my two beloved cats,(who also reduce anger)People have been saying I'm a totally different person now. I really don't know whether its because I'm older, or is it the meds?( so I've had relatively 14 good years on these medicines and for the most part feel very happy)
Posted by vickisnowwhite on December 15, 2002, at 8:27:12
In reply to Re: about having a cat..., posted by kara lynne on December 15, 2002, at 3:21:35
sorry, above post "sleeping your life away" was from another post. I meant to post the above under the "extreme anger" thread( note the prozac and perphenazine, welbutrin, and buspar i'm on does make me extremely sleepy... but happy!!)
Posted by kara lynne on December 15, 2002, at 13:32:19
In reply to Re: about having a cat..., posted by kara lynne on December 15, 2002, at 3:21:35
...as soon as I wrote "father" I meant to correct it because I realized I don't know your gender!! But I pushed the send button ahead of myself. Sorry about that!
Posted by fuzzymind on December 16, 2002, at 4:07:12
In reply to Note To Fuzzymind..., posted by kara lynne on December 15, 2002, at 13:32:19
> ...as soon as I wrote "father" I meant to correct it because I realized I don't know your gender!! But I pushed the send button ahead of myself. Sorry about that!
Yes I am a guy. However ,I feel like I am her mother. Her third. First ws her biological, then my sister who recued her from the stteets, now me.
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