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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 81 to 105 of 350. Go back in thread:
Posted by CMemming on January 25, 2002, at 18:13:29
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Tom Goode on September 27, 2000, at 9:21:51
I was prescribed 100mg/day of zoloft after my father committed suicide for life. I have since decided that I do not want to take drugs for the rest of my life and would like to take care of my predisposition for depression naturally with exercise and vitamins. I tried weaning myself off from 100mg to 50mg for two weeks. Then got impatient and went cold turkey after 25mgs for 3 days. I have been feeling extremely dizzy, nauseous and have been getting the chills. I even had to go home sick from work today. This website has been very helpful and I just barely took 50mgs and am going to try the 50/25 then 25/0 technique. Does anyone have any suggestions for easing my current discomfort? Also how many days does it take to feel better...and has anyone succeeded in getting off zoloft? This is the second time I have tried to get off this drug and the symptoms are unbearable...Thanks in advance.
Posted by BarbaraCat on January 27, 2002, at 12:39:18
In reply to Re: shedding a little light, posted by DMC on December 17, 2001, at 20:43:55
Here is a link that has some very interesting reading, giving some theories on the zaps, etc., and why excess serotonin is a nasty thing.
http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/pinealstory.htm
I am coming off Remeron this time around because is was making me more depressed as well as fat. Had taken Zoloft in the past for 6 years at 200 mg and weaned myself off over a period of 6 months. Did this 3 times over the 6 year course. I actually stayed clear of it for a year feeling pretty darn good until life strongly intervened and I believed at that time that ADs were the only way I could cope.
I'm having the same zaps, whooshes, and crying spells as with all the other SSRI's and expect they will remain until my brain chemistry is healed. I have been resorting to Klonopin when the anxiety is really bad, but am limiting that as well. I have finally come to the conclusion after much research that SSRI's for me are very bad indeed. I'm only hoping my poor meddled with brain can recover. The real factors here will be eating for health, gentle exercise, lots of sleep and revisiting those jammed down repressed places that are the real cause of my depression - not some 'biological dysfunction'. Good luck and blessings to you all. We need each other's support through this time in hell.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am now about 4 weeks Zoloft free. I am experiencing extreme fatigue and insomnia. Do you think this could still be due to withdrawal? I am only getting 3-4hrs. of sleep per night and it's really starting to take it's toll on me. It's hard to tell withdrawal from the symptoms of depression! I am so confused on what to do because it seems every med. that I take, brings on a whole new set of side-effects. It really scares me to try something else especially if this could possibly still be withdrawal. How long did it take for your withdrawal to end? What were your symptoms? I still feel somewhat emotionally blunted, but that ia getting a little better everyday. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! God bless,
> > > Petey
> >
> > I'm sorry that I did not write you back sooner. Ive been in the process of moving. i personally did'nt have as much problems sleeping ,I did but it was very mild compared to the other side effects.But however my ex-husband had very severe problems sleeping in fact he would get about an hour or two a night, I'm not exactly sure how long it lasted but I do know he called me several time in the middle of the night, saying that he was sure it was going to end up killing him. he ended up seeing a doc,who ened up putting him on sleeping pills. This was abot a year ago,and to my knowledge he still is NOT off the zoloft. I also wanted to let you know that from person experience zoloft is easier to get off of. Than alot of other drugs. So I would really think alot it seriouslly,before you start,well that is if you ever plan on getting off of it. The syptoms are very close to depression,or maybe it is depression I'm not sure maybe you should ask your doc,about a natural form of anti-depressant.
> >
>
> Petey,
>
> I'm still experiencing sleep disturbances after nearly 3 weeks zoloft free, but I am finding it much better than I was in week 1. My biggest challenge right now seems to be managing aggravation during the day. I think that it will depend on how long you took zoloft for. I was about 3 and a half years, so based on that, I feel I am coping really well with the withdrawal symptoms I am experiencing. I think everyone has to expect some discomfort for some amount of time. It really boils down to many factors. I have resigned to put up with the withdrawal, as I feel I have much to gain when things settle down. Such as feeling my emotions again, and having a normal sex drive once again. I also felt that Zoloft was starting to contribute to general fatigue for me. I was yawning all the time recently unitl I stopped taking my zoloft. I find I have more energy now, even though I am not sleeping quite as well for the most part. I also am excercising (very, very important!! If your not excercising, please start even if its only 20 minutes every couple days). I am also eating healthier, and avoiding sugar for the most part. I would keep going if your withdrawal symptoms (which I'm pretty sure you are experiencing based on what you have described) are getting less intense overall. If you are finding it unmanageable, and very upsetting, than maybe you need to taper your dose down a little bit slower. I hope this is helpful, and if you want to talk more about it, email is: fragsta@hotmail.com
Posted by Coyote on January 28, 2002, at 11:31:13
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by CMemming on January 25, 2002, at 18:13:29
I tapered off of it over a 30 day period quite successfully once. Actually I switched to it for a few months from Effexor because Effexor is nearly impossible to get off of. Take it down 25 mgs per week. I ended up going back on it about 4 months later.
Posted by DMC on January 28, 2002, at 22:48:43
In reply to Another survivor and some zap theories, posted by BarbaraCat on January 27, 2002, at 12:39:18
Thanks for the link, and for sharing BCat. I just wanted to update on my experiences coming off zoloft. It is now nearly 3 months since I have taken any. I tapered rather quickly, but now can report that my withdrawal symptoms are non-existant. I still have my down days like everyone does, but I am really, really pleased with how I've been responding to drug free living. This time of year used to be just hell for me, and things are just looking pretty good. I'm happy to be more in touch with my inner workings now. Anyway ... it can work. I'll be sure to let you know if I go back on anything, but at this point I'm marching ahead with the intent to not go back on antidepressants. I'm comfortable just knowing they'll be there if things get really wild, but I really would rather stay away from them, and cope with other methods .. those being healthy living ... eating well, excercise, and confiding in people I can trust. For those having trouble with withdrawal symptoms ... it DOES get easier, and they will go away. Be well.
Posted by BarbaraCat on January 29, 2002, at 11:26:06
In reply to Re: Another survivor and some zap theories, posted by DMC on January 28, 2002, at 22:48:43
Great going and congrats! I'm on just a sliver of Remeron and so far so good. I know what you mean about being more in touch with inner workings. Listening to our inner guidance is what will heal us ultimately. Well, cheers to us! -- Barbara
> Thanks for the link, and for sharing BCat. I just wanted to update on my experiences coming off zoloft. It is now nearly 3 months since I have taken any. I tapered rather quickly, but now can report that my withdrawal symptoms are non-existant. I still have my down days like everyone does, but I am really, really pleased with how I've been responding to drug free living. This time of year used to be just hell for me, and things are just looking pretty good. I'm happy to be more in touch with my inner workings now. Anyway ... it can work. I'll be sure to let you know if I go back on anything, but at this point I'm marching ahead with the intent to not go back on antidepressants. I'm comfortable just knowing they'll be there if things get really wild, but I really would rather stay away from them, and cope with other methods .. those being healthy living ... eating well, excercise, and confiding in people I can trust. For those having trouble with withdrawal symptoms ... it DOES get easier, and they will go away. Be well.
Posted by Golda on February 2, 2002, at 22:04:33
In reply to withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Shelly on May 4, 1999, at 17:37:51
Tonight I am confused as I thought I won my battle to get off Zoloft. I tried to wean myself off 100mg very slowly. It didn't work so I did it cold turkey. I had the zaps and tingles and thought it was a heart problem as my pulse jumped very high every time they hit and just accepted them.
I thought I actually won after 2 1/2 months being off it. I got a cold that caused adult on-set asthma to kick-in, which went on to a full lung infection. My doctors tell me that to kick this infection, I have to go back on 100 mgs for the brain to fight it.
I'm shaking and have tremors through out the body, as if my sugar level is dropping too fast. I'm not sure if this is from the lung inhalers, prednisone or actually withdrawal from the Zoloft as I've been told.
I actually felt better before this infection hit and was able to wake up for work and had energy to actually get things done. Yes, I did notice that I clearly spoke my mind and my anger has bitten several people, but I don't want to be a pushover anymore. I'm not nasty, but I do say exactly how I feel, which is not like me. Usually I don't like conflicts and agree with everyone. Now I say it as I see it and my family doesn't like this side of me.
Has anyone had this shakiness after two months? It's the tremors and the shakiness that is scaring me. If it's the lung medication causing these problems, I'd rather stay off the Zoloft. I don't understand why I need the Zoloft to help me kick the lung infection.
I'm not really concerned about the angry, nasty side of me at this time. I figure that my family will have to put up with me and I will even out soon and counseling will help.
I really thought I won and am saddened to think that I have to go back on 100 mgs immediately.
Golda
Posted by LyndaK on February 3, 2002, at 21:02:09
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Golda on February 2, 2002, at 22:04:33
Golda,
First of all, the meds to treat asthma symptoms ABSOLUTELY give you the shakes! Your doc should've told you that if you've never been on them before and/or your pharmacy should've given you information on it.
As for going back on the Zoloft, I'm not sure why you have to do that. IF you are sleeping WELL at night (and during the day, if you need to), it seems like your immune system should be able to do its job. I know that there have been times that I have not been able to fight off a virus because my anxiety is messing up my ability to sleep well at night and is generally preventing my immune system from functioning well. In those cases, what I have done is to take a tranquilizer (Ativan) for a short period of time to knock down the anxiety and help me get the sleep I need. Once that is happening I am usually able to fight the infection completely within a week.
Hope you're feeling better soon.
Lynda
> Tonight I am confused as I thought I won my battle to get off Zoloft. I tried to wean myself off 100mg very slowly. It didn't work so I did it cold turkey. I had the zaps and tingles and thought it was a heart problem as my pulse jumped very high every time they hit and just accepted them.
>
> I thought I actually won after 2 1/2 months being off it. I got a cold that caused adult on-set asthma to kick-in, which went on to a full lung infection. My doctors tell me that to kick this infection, I have to go back on 100 mgs for the brain to fight it.
>
> I'm shaking and have tremors through out the body, as if my sugar level is dropping too fast. I'm not sure if this is from the lung inhalers, prednisone or actually withdrawal from the Zoloft as I've been told.
>
> I actually felt better before this infection hit and was able to wake up for work and had energy to actually get things done. Yes, I did notice that I clearly spoke my mind and my anger has bitten several people, but I don't want to be a pushover anymore. I'm not nasty, but I do say exactly how I feel, which is not like me. Usually I don't like conflicts and agree with everyone. Now I say it as I see it and my family doesn't like this side of me.
>
> Has anyone had this shakiness after two months? It's the tremors and the shakiness that is scaring me. If it's the lung medication causing these problems, I'd rather stay off the Zoloft. I don't understand why I need the Zoloft to help me kick the lung infection.
>
> I'm not really concerned about the angry, nasty side of me at this time. I figure that my family will have to put up with me and I will even out soon and counseling will help.
>
> I really thought I won and am saddened to think that I have to go back on 100 mgs immediately.
>
> Golda
Posted by Ol JI on February 25, 2002, at 23:53:56
In reply to withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Shelly on May 4, 1999, at 17:37:51
After 2 years of various SSRI's but mainly Zoloft I too have the brain buzz. Turning my head or moving suddenly seems to accentuate it. I'm cold turkey and have no idea how long this will last but I am totally freaked about what I've been reading here ! What's going to be the long term effect of these Antidepressants? What happens in 20 years ? Is there permanent damage in the wake of all of this ? Half the medical community don't believe the brain buzz is happening. How about in our old age? Very disturbing news indeed. Who's accountable ? No one I suspect. Is there any news on what the long term effects might be ?
Posted by BarbaraCat on February 26, 2002, at 0:21:09
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Ol JI on February 25, 2002, at 23:53:56
Oh, wow, do I ever ask these same questions. I've tried stopping 6 times over the past 15 years and every time was brought to my knees. It brings up questions such as well, is this the natural progression of my disease and I need SSRI's or is it that my receptors are getting damaged and now I NEED SSRI's. It is scary. I'm glad that medical help is available, but I wonder what I'd be like if I'd never jumped on the original bandwagon. On a cheerier note, I have read that SSRI's reset the chronic stress loop in the amygdala and that they can be neuroprotective. Sure hope so. - Barbara
> After 2 years of various SSRI's but mainly Zoloft I too have the brain buzz. Turning my head or moving suddenly seems to accentuate it. I'm cold turkey and have no idea how long this will last but I am totally freaked about what I've been reading here ! What's going to be the long term effect of these Antidepressants? What happens in 20 years ? Is there permanent damage in the wake of all of this ? Half the medical community don't believe the brain buzz is happening. How about in our old age? Very disturbing news indeed. Who's accountable ? No one I suspect. Is there any news on what the long term effects might be ?
Posted by Chica on February 28, 2002, at 9:44:30
In reply to Another survivor and some zap theories, posted by BarbaraCat on January 27, 2002, at 12:39:18
I have been taking 100 mg. Zoloft for 4 months now...I feel that I am over my situational depression & want to get my spark back. The meds have helped me cope, but...they also have made me into an overweight slug. I really don't connect w/the Dr., he would just tell me to stay on, so he could get his $110 per hour. My thinking is that I will just slowly decrease & be off, but...now am scared because of what I've read here. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by Cam W. on February 28, 2002, at 20:18:58
In reply to Re: Any suggestions of getting off of Zoloft, posted by Chica on February 28, 2002, at 9:44:30
Cmatt - Several studies have shown that if an antidepressant is not taken for at least six months "after response" there is a great risk (>80%) of relapse. It usually takes 1 or 2 months to reach full response with SSRIs.
It takes time for the body's stress system (HPA axis), as well as other related systems that were altered and resulted in the depressive symptoms, to recover and "normalize" from a depression. You have to make sure that the realigned neurochemical pathways are strong enough to stay that way. The body has a good memory, and if you don't retrain the circuitry for a long enough period, the neuronal pathways will again return to the depressed configuration.
Have patience; you did not become depressed overnight. I always recommend that people keeping taking an antidepressant for at least a year. This greatly decreases the risk of a relapse of the depression from occuring.
I hope that this is of some help. - Cam
Posted by level on February 28, 2002, at 20:33:36
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by JohnL on June 5, 2000, at 3:21:01
> > been on anti's a few times...Never withdrawed from Zoloft but am going to do it the same way I did with celexa and paxil. Reduce the dose by about 6mg-yes 6mg every 2 weeks. If your on it for a year or more you should give yourself about 4-6 months to start weaning from it. Or try something like 50mg then reduce to 40mg. stay on for 2 to 3 weeks then reduce to 30mg, then 25 mg then start cutting it by 5mg-6mg every couple weeks until your down to about 2.5mg every other day for a couple weeks. I am with you guys the majority of doctors and psychiatrists are ignorant on this. Guess they never took it before.
> > Susan - It might be a very good idea to go back on a lower dose of Zoloft for a while. Ask you doc to give you 50mg strength caps (tabs in U.S.?) and try 100mg daily for a couple of days. If this doesn't help, raise the dose to 150mg (you could raise the dose again, but I doubt you will need to). Then, about every 7 days drop the dose by 50mg and, if tolerated, do this until you are taking 50mg daily. Do this for a week, then take 50mg every other day for a week and the try to stop. This should ease your withdrawl symptoms.
> >
> > Talk this over with your doc. I have seen this method work, especially when withdrawing from higher doses of the shorter acting SRIs.
> >
> > Hope this helps - Cam
>
>
> Susan,
> I agree with Cam completely that it is probably a good idea to get back on the Zoloft and then begin a slower discontinuation strategy. There's no telling how long the withdrawal symptoms you're feeling will last. After 9 years, I would think they will take longer than usual. Normally we can expect 1 to 3 weeks. But I've heard complaints of the withdrawals lasting into months in some cases. So I think it would be a good idea to begin a slower weening process.
>
> Here's a method I've used to both get on a med and ween off of it. It has worked well for me, and maybe it could for you. Let's just assume, for the sake of an example, that you are back on Zoloft at say 100mg. The next day, take 75mg instead (break or cut the pills as needed). Then take 100mg again the next day, and then 75 again the next. And so on, alternating daily like this for about a week or so.
>
> After a week, stabilize at 75mg per day and remain at that level for about 3 or 4 days. Then, begin alternating again. This time, take 75mg, then 50mg, then 75, then 50, and so on...and finally stop and stabilize at 50. The next phase would be alternating between 50mg and 25mg. Then between 25mg and 0. And finally 0.
>
> If you still experience uncomfortable withdrawals after being at 0 for a few days, go ahead and take perhaps a 25mg dose, but then skip the next day or two. Alternate as needed between 0 and 25mg just to smooth the bumps until the storm is over. I think this seesaw alternating method works well. It's kind of like walking down the stairs slowly. And the transition from being at one dose and going to another isn't so dramatic. Much smoother, more subtle.
> JohnL
Posted by Gettinghealthy on March 6, 2002, at 13:23:33
In reply to withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Shelly on May 4, 1999, at 17:37:51
I have been weaning myself off of Zoloft for several months now. I believe it is the only way to do it without the extreme side effects of dizziness, spacey head and fatigue. I am down from 150mg to 25mg and feeling great. For awhile, I didn't feel so great, but when I stopped drinking anything with caffeine I improved considerably. My advice: STOP consuming anything with caffeine. My dizziness, fatigue and yucky feelings stopped. I will be Zoloft-free within a couple of weeks and I know I will be just fine, with no nasty side effects. I hope this helps someone else. It's worth it to take the time to register if it helps anyone to feel better. Good luck. Remember to tell anyone who will listen, Zoloft IS habit forming even though the doctors and drug companies will deny it.
Posted by Jane Wallace on March 7, 2002, at 22:31:51
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Gettinghealthy on March 6, 2002, at 13:23:33
Good luck with your final step. I got off of zoloft 12/28/01 after a very slow taperdown period. I was off of it for two months. I kept having dizzy spells and problems with my blood pressure. After a visit to ENT to establish it wasn't my ears and continued problems with blood pressure medicine, I took 12.5 mg. of zoloft. I feel fine now. No high blood pressure, no dizziness, no feelings of disconnectedness. I'm going to see my doctor on Monday. This is insane. Like I said, good luck.
Posted by LindaK on March 7, 2002, at 22:50:53
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by SW on October 5, 2000, at 20:07:54
Hi,
My husband Jeff had been on Zoloft since 1995,he has tried on and off for the past two years to get off Zoloft. Everytime he tried he would get severe headaches,nausea,cloudy thinking,dizziness,and on one occasion fainted.Jeff used to travel and one time left without Zoloft,I had to Fed EX it to his Hotel!
We were watching TV one night,and on 20/20 or primetime the program was about anti-depressant withdrawl. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing and hearing.About two months ago I was at a menopause discussion, several of the people were talking about how they got off their antidepressants. I started asking questions and found out about a vitamin and herb combination. I thought I would try it on Jeff (it couldn’t hurt). I started him on the combo with his Zoloft for 1 week, next week ½ of the Zoloft with the combo. Third week ½ Zoloft every other day with the combo, fourth week combo only. I didn’t tell Jeff what I was doing (Power of suggestion). About a week ago Jeff asked me if he was taking Zoloft anymore, I said no and told what I had done. He could not believe it, and said he felt even better than he did on Zoloft. If you are interested in trying this please let me know. I would love to see if I could help you. The price is $39 plus shipping, a lot cheaper and safer than anti-depressants. You can E-mail me at Kimble@mindspring.com. Please check our website at Atlantacollectables.com.Sincerely,
Linda Kimble
Posted by Ron Hill on March 7, 2002, at 23:15:57
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by LindaK on March 7, 2002, at 22:50:53
>I started asking questions and found out about a vitamin and herb combination.
---------Linda,
Specifically what vitamin(s) and what herb(s)?
-- Ron
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 8, 2002, at 0:43:10
In reply to Re: Any suggestions of getting off of Zoloft » Chica, posted by Cam W. on February 28, 2002, at 20:18:58
Cam,
What is your take on long term effects of ADs? Is there damage or dying off of receptors during reuptake since more serotonin/NE is available? If so, is this a permanent situation? I think of how long term cocaine or meth use can damage the dopamine system irrevocably and contribute to Parkinson's. It seems like so many of us here have tried to wean off SSRI's and ended up crawling back. I was on Zoloft for 6 years consistently, 10 years total, so you'd think my HPA axis would have been well set. I tried going off 4 times during the last 4 years of that 10 year period, but each time after 6 months cried uncle. I'm now on Remeron and lithium and doing well, but am concerned that having begun medication, I'm now forever in their grip. I realize the possibility that I need these chemicals, but wonder if I need them all the more having once begun them. Looking forward to your erudite elucidations. - BarbaraCmatt - Several studies have shown that if an antidepressant is not taken for at least six months "after response" there is a great risk (>80%) of relapse. It usually takes 1 or 2 months to reach full response with SSRIs.
>
> It takes time for the body's stress system (HPA axis), as well as other related systems that were altered and resulted in the depressive symptoms, to recover and "normalize" from a depression. You have to make sure that the realigned neurochemical pathways are strong enough to stay that way. The body has a good memory, and if you don't retrain the circuitry for a long enough period, the neuronal pathways will again return to the depressed configuration.
>
> Have patience; you did not become depressed overnight. I always recommend that people keeping taking an antidepressant for at least a year. This greatly decreases the risk of a relapse of the depression from occuring.
>
> I hope that this is of some help. - Cam
Posted by Cam W. on March 9, 2002, at 3:47:58
In reply to Receptors and ADs » Cam W., posted by BarbaraCat on March 8, 2002, at 0:43:10
Barbara - Tricyclic antidepressants have been around since the 1950s. There are epidemiological studies that include data on TCA use. There has been no evidence of long-lasting effects from taking antidepressants (except in some extreme cases). Leaving the depression untreated would have resulted in a much higher mortality rate.
Also, the "Prozac Babies" are now in their 20's. These were the first batch of babies who were conceived while the mother was taking Prozac or took Prozac while pregnant. Many of the offspring were followed and they have not turned out any weirder than any other American =^)
The problem may be in the kindling process that seems to be seen in major depression. The theory is that with each subsequent depressive episode, the next comes sooner, lasts longer, and is worse symptomatically. In other words, in at least some people, it seems that it is a depressive episode that does the damage to the neurocircuitry. Using antidepressants potentially interupts kindling, which would (hopefully) result in fewer lifetime episodes of depression.
I believe that the benefits obtained from taking antidepressants, when truly needed, far, far outweigh any short-term or long-term problem from the antidepressant itself.
Just my opinion - Cam
Posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 14:23:19
In reply to Receptors and ADs » Cam W., posted by BarbaraCat on March 8, 2002, at 0:43:10
Barbara, I'm just jumping in with an observation about me. Whether it would apply to anyone else, I have no idea & won't even hazard a guess.
I've been on ADs for +15 years now. I originally went on imipramine to see if it would help my migraines/tension headaches (I used to get both). There was no improvement with the headaches but there was a noticable improvement with my mood. I would never have said I was seriously depressed then but did feel unhappy & irritable fairly often.
Much of how I felt was due to the environment & circumstances I was in - 3 small children, an alcoholic, self-centred husband, & living in a small prairie village. I hated the climate (unbearably hot in the short summer & unbearably cold in the long winter). I was also very lonely. The people were bigoted, small-minded people who considered me an oddity because I loved science & wasn't into their "social bees".
Anyway, TCAs made life much more bearable & allowed me to be happy with my children & my own interests. When I moved back to my original home, I wanted to go off my ADs. Didn't seem able to. Over the last 7 years, I've tried going it alone 3 times & each time, conceded defeat. My thoughts/feelings were no longer simply moody & irritable without them but black, bleak, & a smoldering rage instead of just irritation. Maybe I had previously learned to control myself better without ADs but became dependent on them to keep me even-keeled? Who knows for sure? Without ADs, I hate the personality that emerges. Without them, I have no will or control to fight my feelings.
I found that stopping Luvox was horrible but stopping Paxil was even worse. The discontinuation/withdrawal symptoms never went away, even after a year & now taking Celexa which was working very well. Brain zaps, vertigo, & spacey feeelings continued so I ended up going back on Paxil (10 mg only) along with my Celexa. The symptoms didn't clear completely but did become managable. But I still wanted off the Paxil. I hated being dependent on a drug that would make you feel that horrible from even being late with the dose.
I now take adrafinil (Olmifon) along with my Celexa. Provigil is similar to Olmifon. It's supposed to increase over-all brain metabolism & I thought I'd see if I could do without Paxil & give it one more try. When I stopped the Paxil, I didn't even notice. No return of symptoms - nothing! I attribute it to the adrafinil. Nothing else is different. Nothing else explains it.
Anyway, that's my experience. I would love to see if Provigil prescribed for those wishing to discontinue their SSRIs would relieve their symptoms like it did for me. Perhaps as Provigil is prescribed more in the future, we'll read some study about it. I've noticed from various postings here in PB that people who are bipolar don't seem to react good to Provigil, so it's obviously not the answer for everyone.
Posted by Ritch on March 9, 2002, at 17:24:58
In reply to Re: Receptors and ADs (rather long) » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 14:23:19
> I now take adrafinil (Olmifon) along with my Celexa. Provigil is similar to Olmifon. It's supposed to increase over-all brain metabolism & I thought I'd see if I could do without Paxil & give it one more try. When I stopped the Paxil, I didn't even notice. No return of symptoms - nothing! I attribute it to the adrafinil. Nothing else is different. Nothing else explains it.
>
> Anyway, that's my experience. I would love to see if Provigil prescribed for those wishing to discontinue their SSRIs would relieve their symptoms like it did for me. Perhaps as Provigil is prescribed more in the future, we'll read some study about it. I've noticed from various postings here in PB that people who are bipolar don't seem to react good to Provigil, so it's obviously not the answer for everyone.
Hi IsoM,Haven't talked to you in a while. You are onto something for sure. Well... I am off Wellbutrin after a dysphoric/insomnia/hostility episode. So, my meds are a combo of (all very low dose) Neurontin+Dexedrine Celexa+Klonopin and it is working quite well. This pstim has a noticeable *calming* effect that I find very striking. Adderall had a "wavy", "buzzy" quality about it that was very noticeable during the day with unwanted panic-like anxiety. I am sleeping better and the mild ultradian (during the day) cycling has stopped. I find that it controls my impulsiveness better than Adderall did (although I don't feel as focused). But, to get to your point about using a pstim to help "cover" an SSRI withdrawal-I think it might be possible-maybe if the person taking the SSRI is taking it primarily for depression (not anxiety disorders). As far as bipolar folks having trouble with it - I am not so sure. I have got mixed bipolar and ADHD and so far isn't causing any trouble.
Mitch
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 9, 2002, at 18:15:55
In reply to Re: Receptors and ADs (rather long) » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 14:23:19
Iso,
Your prairie days sound ghastly. Glad you're out of there. I can relate to what you said about the bleak, dark and violent place you go into without the meds. Before I started ADs lo these many years ago I was depressed certainly, but it didn't have the haunted spooky crazy quality it now has when I try to stop. BTW, is Adrafinal considered a pstim? I thought it was more in the norepineprine vs. dopamine camp. At any rate, if it worked that well in reducing the paxil withdrawal blues, then it's a real exciting find. The zaps and whooshes have been said to be serotonin-related. It makes me wonder if the NE is acting as a neuro protectant somehow, or perhaps NE is what you best respond to?I recently gave Adrafinal a try, hoping to add a little zip to a recent vegetative depression. Unfortunately, it caused a great deal of the 'inner tension' side effect and started switching me into an agitated depression with alot of crying and wringing of hands. I guess Bipolar II's really shouldn't go there, but I do so wish for something that would give me that nice focussed calm motivated feeling (gee, kinda like my meth days, in fact). I'm currently on remeron, lithium, klonopin and ambien. I'm not depressed, but I'm getting slow and porky. Any ideas out there would be appreciated. - Barbara
Posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 19:35:55
In reply to Re: Receptors and ADs » IsoM, posted by BarbaraCat on March 9, 2002, at 18:15:55
Barbara, you'll have to excuse me but has anyone ever asked about getting your TSH level checked?
I'm a little weird about exercise. I hate doing something if it's for "exercising & toning" up. *Boring* as hell for me! But if I HAVE to work & move physically, I love it. Yet, there has to be a need or I'll vegetate & just use my mind - which is why I chose a physically challenging job. I'm not lazy. Once started, I go like the wind but I seem to need a push first. Most things are like that for me though.
Anyway, with growing older, I think we start slowing down, especially with our sedentary life-style in the west. Man will always take the easier course if given a chance. The slower we get, the harder it is to get going again. Is there any way you can start off slowly & increase your activity level? There's all sorts of strategies that can be developed to get us active again & keep us that way.
On the days I don't work, I need to jump-start my engine with some rousing, bouncing cheerful music. Just the thought of having to put it on makes me think 'ewwyyuu!' but once it starts, my mood & energy go right up. I would've been great as one of Pavlov's dogs - first time I heard the bell, I'd not only start salivating but would probably eat the other dogs too. My moods are so very easily influenced (not my logical side but my emotional side).
If meth made you feel calm & focused (like it did me too), can't you get a prescription for another kind of stim like Dexedrine? You're one of the reasons that I think adrafinil doesn't work that well for most bipolars. I'm so curious of how it affects the brains of bipolars. I'd love to see some PET scans of bipolar brains with adrafinil.
Posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 19:45:54
In reply to Re: SSRI's and psychostimulants... » IsoM, posted by Ritch on March 9, 2002, at 17:24:58
Mitch, I think it's more than pstims that cover the SSRI withdrawal. I had been using Dexedrine previously but it made no difference to my brain zaps & other symptoms. Sometimes, I even think it made it a little worse or at least, more noticable.
I can't explain how but the effects of adrafinil for me was as if my brain was 'fogged up' or my head was full of cotton stuffing & the adrafinil cleared it up. It not only helps me stay awake during the day (from the narcolepsy) but gives me an over-all clearer feeling. My mind feels swept clean of all the cobwebs cluttering it before. Sadly, it doesn't really help me fall asleep better at night - I was hoping it would. So I still rely on Gravol a hour or so before I want to go to bed. Once asleep, I do sleep pretty good.
My 79 year old Mom loves adrafinil but when she's tried any AD in the past, she felt horrible & wouldn't take them. I'm actually glad she didn't. She tells me she feels happier, more alert & bright too.
I wasn't thinking that all stims caused problems with bipolars, just adrafinil/modafinil. You didn't try them or did you?
Posted by Ritch on March 9, 2002, at 22:53:25
In reply to Re: SSRI's and psychostimulants... » Ritch, posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 19:45:54
> Mitch, I think it's more than pstims that cover the SSRI withdrawal. I had been using Dexedrine previously but it made no difference to my brain zaps & other symptoms. Sometimes, I even think it made it a little worse or at least, more noticable.
>
> I can't explain how but the effects of adrafinil for me was as if my brain was 'fogged up' or my head was full of cotton stuffing & the adrafinil cleared it up. It not only helps me stay awake during the day (from the narcolepsy) but gives me an over-all clearer feeling. My mind feels swept clean of all the cobwebs cluttering it before. Sadly, it doesn't really help me fall asleep better at night - I was hoping it would. So I still rely on Gravol a hour or so before I want to go to bed. Once asleep, I do sleep pretty good.
>
> My 79 year old Mom loves adrafinil but when she's tried any AD in the past, she felt horrible & wouldn't take them. I'm actually glad she didn't. She tells me she feels happier, more alert & bright too.
>
> I wasn't thinking that all stims caused problems with bipolars, just adrafinil/modafinil. You didn't try them or did you?IsoM,
I actually was intending to try Provigil when I saw my pdoc last time. But the half-life issue and insomnia thing got brought up. I had to stop Wellbutrin due to dysphoric hypomania and insomnia. If *anything* causes sleep disturbance for me it WILL aggravate mood disturbances. Over 25 years I can see that it is *THE* link. Sleep good/mood good.
Anyhow, I brought up Provigil and it immediately flipped to "can you afford it?", and I said "it doesn't matter to me-whatever works". Well, I got written a script for dexedrine right off the bat and after my insurance paid the copay I had to fork over .... $2 bucks. SmithKline still makes the stuff-amazing-no incognito 3rd world pharmaceuticals.
Mitch
Posted by IsoM on March 10, 2002, at 1:48:26
In reply to Re: SSRI's and psychostimulants... » IsoM, posted by Ritch on March 9, 2002, at 22:53:25
Yeah, Mitch, I find it strange that Dexedrine can't be bought from overseas too. Maybe there's too much controversy on how pure it may be or maybe that it's cheap enough here, why bother making it elsewhere?
I'm going to increase my adrafinil to 3 pills a day from the 2 I take. I suspect the initial euphoria at feeling 'normal' has had time to wear off & now I'm feeling the true effects of it alone without the benefits of the added hormone/neurotransmitter boost from being so enthralled with something so wonderful.
Kind of like that intial 'falling in love' high that's due to a true chemical reaction in our brain.
"The most well-known love-related chemical is phenylethylamine, or PEA, a naturally occurring trace amine, an organic molecule containing nitrogen, that is found in the brain. PEA is an amphetamine that is constantly produced by the body and, in elevated concentrations, can cause similar stimulation to that caused by artificially-produced amphetamine drugs. This natural "upper" contributes to the on-top-of-the-world feeling that attraction can bring. It also gives you the energy to stay awake and focused longer, making it possible to talk to your new love all night long. Attraction is not the only way to get a high from PEA. The brain also releases the stimulant during high-stress activities like bungee jumping and skydiving or, as some scientists believe, when eating chocolate.
The release of PEA sets off a chemical chain-reaction in the brain. The primary effect of PEA is the stimulated release of the neuro-transmitter dopamine, a "feel-good" chemical."
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