![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by adamie on November 6, 2001, at 22:03:42
hi. There seem to be a lot of messages on this forum regarding stimulants. I myself am desperate for relief and I'm just wondering, how do you get these stimulants? Do your pdoc's prescribe them after several AD failures or do you get them by some other means? I am sick of feeling this way. If something can help after just one dose then I want it. I'm the type of guy who wouldn't even drink coffee but now my life is on the line. please reply
Posted by JohnX2 on November 6, 2001, at 23:22:41
In reply to Stimulants, how do you get them?, posted by adamie on November 6, 2001, at 22:03:42
> hi. There seem to be a lot of messages on this forum regarding stimulants. I myself am desperate for relief and I'm just wondering, how do you get these stimulants? Do your pdoc's prescribe them after several AD failures or do you get them by some other means? I am sick of feeling this way. If something can help after just one dose then I want it. I'm the type of guy who wouldn't even drink coffee but now my life is on the line. please reply
Well, you could read up on the symptoms of
ADD and go to a new pdoc and fake out the
symptoms. Don't tell him you have ADD, but
talk about the depression and all your failed
trials on meds, and if he says to try a med
tell him you already did and it didn't work.
List symptoms of ADD. He'll give you a stealth
ADD quiz like asking you to recite the months
backwards or count backwards from 100 subtracting
by 7's. Then he'll mention a list of fruits,
change the conversation to something else then
ask you to list the fruits again. Tell him
you have a lot of trouble sitting still. You
feel calm driving your car or walking around or
when you have caffeine in your system, otherwise
you are antsy.If your depression has reached rock bottom and
all else has failed, a stimulant is a choice
that the psychiatrist should acknowledge, however.How many pdocs have you worked with and what to
date has had any positive effect?sorry about your delimma,
-john
Posted by Rick on November 7, 2001, at 0:47:34
In reply to Stimulants, how do you get them?, posted by adamie on November 6, 2001, at 22:03:42
> hi. There seem to be a lot of messages on this forum regarding stimulants. I myself am desperate for relief and I'm just wondering, how do you get these stimulants? Do your pdoc's prescribe them after several AD failures or do you get them by some other means? I am sick of feeling this way. If something can help after just one dose then I want it. I'm the type of guy who wouldn't even drink coffee but now my life is on the line. please reply.
My own pdoc suggested Ritalin augmentation after I asked for something to help offset Celexa+Klonopin induced fatigue and apathy. But I already had my mind set on Provigil, and talked him into it. If you're conversant with the various meds and strategies, *some* pdocs will really respond to the credibility this builds. But it's certainly not the only way to end up with a stimulant prescription. An aside, since you mentioned coffee: Coffee wakes me up but makes me jittery. Provigil wakes me up but doesn't make me jittery.
JohnX2's strategy sounds like it might work. I have some additional thoughts, but it's hard to make really informed suggestions since you didn't say anything about your condition and med history, or even what specific "relief" you seek. I assume you're more specific than this in discussions with your pdoc -- otherwise you're not real likely to get what you need very soon.
That said, the best approach depends a lot on whether you have an open-minded and informed pdoc, or a diehard member of the "SSRI's R Us" mega-network. If she's open-minded and informed, just talk about why you think a stimulant could help, and talk about what you've read/heard from credible sources to support this.
Incidentally, before he would prescribe the then-unfamiliar-to-him Provigil (modafinil) for me, my pdoc wanted to know the "real" story behind it, i.e., what people are saying on the internet boards as opposed to the drug company spin and company-funded studies. That's smart. I don't think all pdocs think this way, unfortunately, so it could help to be armed with evidence from studies, etc., e.g. passages from the following review which cites stimulants as a proven augmentation alternative:
http://www.psychiatrist.com/supplenet/v62s18/v62s1802.pdf
If he's not too open-minded, find another pdoc if you're not locked in by an HMO or restrictive insurance plan. Call around and see what their specialties are, whether they believe in using agents to potentiate AD's (you can get casually throw in stimulants as an "example" with thyroid hormone, pindolol, lithium, multiple AD's, etc.) Ask how they feel about polypharmacy. Ask what they think about MAOI's (pdocs who will consider them today seem to be better-informed and more open-minded). If you're in a fairly large city, find pdoc names in the phone book and search Medline and Google to see if they have any writings that suggest they might be receptive to stimulants. If you're in a university town, note that university-affiliated pdocs are often more research-minded and tend to be more open-minded as a result.
If you're stuck with Ms. SSRI-of-the-month, you need to be a little more persistent. Start subtly, and then get pushier in later visits if necessary. Tell her, for instance, that the latest AD may be helping some, but that it's continuing to cause so much fatigue or apathy that you can't appreciate the benefits. Keep it up as necessary. If you end up with Wellbutrin or Wellbutrin augmentation (and find it doesn't actually help!), just continue to act hopelessly fatigued and apathetic. (Again, this may mean just play up how you really feel, for all I can tell.)
If you're interested in Provigil (vs. a traditional stim) and prone to anxiety, act as if Wellbutrin added too much anxiety (it DID for me), and point out how you've read that Provigil doesn't increase anxiety very often. If you're interested in Provigil as an AD augmentor per the recent studies, cite those studies as well as the safety factor vs. amphetamine-based stims (lower incidence of anxiety or crashing or blood pressure increases or addiction potential; Class IV substance vs. Ritalin's much more stringent prescription control/monitoring as a Class II, etc.)
As long as you avoid coming off as someone looking for a fix -- and I highly doubt THAT would happen -- there's a good chance you'll get your stim prescription before long. Especially if you get a good pdoc.
Good Luck,
Rick
Posted by christophrejmc on November 7, 2001, at 3:20:15
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them? » adamie, posted by Rick on November 7, 2001, at 0:47:34
I agree with Rick about Provigil. I have not responded to any antidepressant (in 5-6 years of pharmacotherapy) and the traditional psychostimulants tend to make me edgy and irritable. I, too, am coming off Zyprexa, which did nothing except make me really tired and really hungry throughout the day (at 2.5mg). I started Provigil to-day and I'm quite impressed -- stimulation without nervousness. The only problem is the price.
;Christophre> hi. There seem to be a lot of messages on this forum regarding stimulants. I myself am desperate for relief and I'm just wondering, how do you get these stimulants? Do your pdoc's prescribe them after several AD failures or do you get them by some other means? I am sick of feeling this way. If something can help after just one dose then I want it. I'm the type of guy who wouldn't even drink coffee but now my life is on the line. please reply.
Posted by Hattree on November 7, 2001, at 9:30:38
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them? » adamie, posted by JohnX2 on November 6, 2001, at 23:22:41
As John suggested, my approach was to describe the symptoms of ADD without mentioning the acronym.
Also, when asked about past recreational drug use I said the stimulants I used in college made me feel normal. My pdoc happened to ask that question for the right reason--to get a clue as to what might help me--he is an open minded guy (at times I wonder if he should be locked up). For some I suppose my answer would have marked me as a drug abuser and prevented me from getting the script.
Of course, I believe I actually do have ADD, and everything I said was true.
BTW, how do you feel when you drink coffee or take a stimulating decongestant like sudafed (with no antihistamine to make you drowsy). Might give you a hint as to how you'd respond to Ritalin, etc.
> > hi. There seem to be a lot of messages on this forum regarding stimulants. I myself am desperate for relief and I'm just wondering, how do you get these stimulants? Do your pdoc's prescribe them after several AD failures or do you get them by some other means? I am sick of feeling this way. If something can help after just one dose then I want it. I'm the type of guy who wouldn't even drink coffee but now my life is on the line. please reply
>
> Well, you could read up on the symptoms of
> ADD and go to a new pdoc and fake out the
> symptoms. Don't tell him you have ADD, but
> talk about the depression and all your failed
> trials on meds, and if he says to try a med
> tell him you already did and it didn't work.
> List symptoms of ADD. He'll give you a stealth
> ADD quiz like asking you to recite the months
> backwards or count backwards from 100 subtracting
> by 7's. Then he'll mention a list of fruits,
> change the conversation to something else then
> ask you to list the fruits again. Tell him
> you have a lot of trouble sitting still. You
> feel calm driving your car or walking around or
> when you have caffeine in your system, otherwise
> you are antsy.
>
> If your depression has reached rock bottom and
> all else has failed, a stimulant is a choice
> that the psychiatrist should acknowledge, however.
>
> How many pdocs have you worked with and what to
> date has had any positive effect?
>
> sorry about your delimma,
> -john
Posted by adamie on November 7, 2001, at 14:38:36
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them?, posted by Hattree on November 7, 2001, at 9:30:38
hi. no I haven't tried coffee. right now I'll be trying some to see how it makes me feel.> As John suggested, my approach was to describe the symptoms of ADD without mentioning the acronym.
>
> Also, when asked about past recreational drug use I said the stimulants I used in college made me feel normal. My pdoc happened to ask that question for the right reason--to get a clue as to what might help me--he is an open minded guy (at times I wonder if he should be locked up). For some I suppose my answer would have marked me as a drug abuser and prevented me from getting the script.
>
> Of course, I believe I actually do have ADD, and everything I said was true.
>
> BTW, how do you feel when you drink coffee or take a stimulating decongestant like sudafed (with no antihistamine to make you drowsy). Might give you a hint as to how you'd respond to Ritalin, etc.
>
>
> > > hi. There seem to be a lot of messages on this forum regarding stimulants. I myself am desperate for relief and I'm just wondering, how do you get these stimulants? Do your pdoc's prescribe them after several AD failures or do you get them by some other means? I am sick of feeling this way. If something can help after just one dose then I want it. I'm the type of guy who wouldn't even drink coffee but now my life is on the line. please reply
> >
> > Well, you could read up on the symptoms of
> > ADD and go to a new pdoc and fake out the
> > symptoms. Don't tell him you have ADD, but
> > talk about the depression and all your failed
> > trials on meds, and if he says to try a med
> > tell him you already did and it didn't work.
> > List symptoms of ADD. He'll give you a stealth
> > ADD quiz like asking you to recite the months
> > backwards or count backwards from 100 subtracting
> > by 7's. Then he'll mention a list of fruits,
> > change the conversation to something else then
> > ask you to list the fruits again. Tell him
> > you have a lot of trouble sitting still. You
> > feel calm driving your car or walking around or
> > when you have caffeine in your system, otherwise
> > you are antsy.
> >
> > If your depression has reached rock bottom and
> > all else has failed, a stimulant is a choice
> > that the psychiatrist should acknowledge, however.
> >
> > How many pdocs have you worked with and what to
> > date has had any positive effect?
> >
> > sorry about your delimma,
> > -john
Posted by adamie on November 7, 2001, at 14:41:25
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them?, posted by christophrejmc on November 7, 2001, at 3:20:15
Providil worked for you after just one dose?? I've added this to the list of meds I am willing to try. Hopefully I can get my pdoc to prescribe it tomorrow.> I agree with Rick about Provigil. I have not responded to any antidepressant (in 5-6 years of pharmacotherapy) and the traditional psychostimulants tend to make me edgy and irritable. I, too, am coming off Zyprexa, which did nothing except make me really tired and really hungry throughout the day (at 2.5mg). I started Provigil to-day and I'm quite impressed -- stimulation without nervousness. The only problem is the price.
> ;Christophre
>
> > hi. There seem to be a lot of messages on this forum regarding stimulants. I myself am desperate for relief and I'm just wondering, how do you get these stimulants? Do your pdoc's prescribe them after several AD failures or do you get them by some other means? I am sick of feeling this way. If something can help after just one dose then I want it. I'm the type of guy who wouldn't even drink coffee but now my life is on the line. please reply.
Posted by adamie on November 7, 2001, at 15:01:40
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them? » adamie, posted by JohnX2 on November 6, 2001, at 23:22:41
it is hard to remember how many pdocs I have worked with. One was doctor Risman. I dont remember anything except that he was a yucki doctor. very arrogant. then some other pdoc I think but not sure. Then when I admit myself to the hospital I had another pdoc. so 3 and also my normal family doctor. Also there was a 4th pdoc but that was only for one day when they sent me to the high risk suicidal section in a new hospital.regarding the medications, nothing has worked so far. although 1 week on paxil I was feeling quite better. I was actually living again. But then that passed and I was feeling horrible again. After that All AD's I've tried made my depression worse. I did try some natural stuff. I thought SAM-e worked a bit the first time I tried it. But the second and third time it seemed to have no effect. Also adrafinil for 2 weeks, no effect. 5-htp I am not sure what effect it had had. once I thought it was making me better. Then later I felt as if it was making me feel worse. I also tried salmon oil. St John's wort until I realized it was not for severe depression.
During this depression there were a few up periods but they ended.
The meds I have tried aside from what I already mentioned are paxil, prozac, wellbutrin, effexor, celexa, and for an extremely short time depakote and anfranil. Oh and also I have had 6 ECT's which seemed to not help or just help a little.
Regarding faking having ADD, I dont think I am capable of that. I just wouldn't be able to remember all the things necessary to pull this off. Hopefully a pdoc will prescribe a stimulant anyway.
> > hi. There seem to be a lot of messages on this forum regarding stimulants. I myself am desperate for relief and I'm just wondering, how do you get these stimulants? Do your pdoc's prescribe them after several AD failures or do you get them by some other means? I am sick of feeling this way. If something can help after just one dose then I want it. I'm the type of guy who wouldn't even drink coffee but now my life is on the line. please reply
>
> Well, you could read up on the symptoms of
> ADD and go to a new pdoc and fake out the
> symptoms. Don't tell him you have ADD, but
> talk about the depression and all your failed
> trials on meds, and if he says to try a med
> tell him you already did and it didn't work.
> List symptoms of ADD. He'll give you a stealth
> ADD quiz like asking you to recite the months
> backwards or count backwards from 100 subtracting
> by 7's. Then he'll mention a list of fruits,
> change the conversation to something else then
> ask you to list the fruits again. Tell him
> you have a lot of trouble sitting still. You
> feel calm driving your car or walking around or
> when you have caffeine in your system, otherwise
> you are antsy.
>
> If your depression has reached rock bottom and
> all else has failed, a stimulant is a choice
> that the psychiatrist should acknowledge, however.
>
> How many pdocs have you worked with and what to
> date has had any positive effect?
>
> sorry about your delimma,
> -john
Posted by adamie on November 7, 2001, at 15:29:07
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them? » adamie, posted by Rick on November 7, 2001, at 0:47:34
hi. regarding my situation, I have a lot of it written out in the thread above named "Give up on Zyprexa"? So far all AD's I've tried have made me worse. What I am suffering from is severe depression caused by Accutane. Severe inability to think, concentrate, and remember. my memory is beyond horrible. I cant even remember anything about my ex-fiance. Also I sleep too much and am pretty tired.> > hi. There seem to be a lot of messages on this forum regarding stimulants. I myself am desperate for relief and I'm just wondering, how do you get these stimulants? Do your pdoc's prescribe them after several AD failures or do you get them by some other means? I am sick of feeling this way. If something can help after just one dose then I want it. I'm the type of guy who wouldn't even drink coffee but now my life is on the line. please reply.
>
> My own pdoc suggested Ritalin augmentation after I asked for something to help offset Celexa+Klonopin induced fatigue and apathy. But I already had my mind set on Provigil, and talked him into it. If you're conversant with the various meds and strategies, *some* pdocs will really respond to the credibility this builds. But it's certainly not the only way to end up with a stimulant prescription. An aside, since you mentioned coffee: Coffee wakes me up but makes me jittery. Provigil wakes me up but doesn't make me jittery.
>
> JohnX2's strategy sounds like it might work. I have some additional thoughts, but it's hard to make really informed suggestions since you didn't say anything about your condition and med history, or even what specific "relief" you seek. I assume you're more specific than this in discussions with your pdoc -- otherwise you're not real likely to get what you need very soon.
>
> That said, the best approach depends a lot on whether you have an open-minded and informed pdoc, or a diehard member of the "SSRI's R Us" mega-network. If she's open-minded and informed, just talk about why you think a stimulant could help, and talk about what you've read/heard from credible sources to support this.
>
> Incidentally, before he would prescribe the then-unfamiliar-to-him Provigil (modafinil) for me, my pdoc wanted to know the "real" story behind it, i.e., what people are saying on the internet boards as opposed to the drug company spin and company-funded studies. That's smart. I don't think all pdocs think this way, unfortunately, so it could help to be armed with evidence from studies, etc., e.g. passages from the following review which cites stimulants as a proven augmentation alternative:
>
> http://www.psychiatrist.com/supplenet/v62s18/v62s1802.pdf
>
> If he's not too open-minded, find another pdoc if you're not locked in by an HMO or restrictive insurance plan. Call around and see what their specialties are, whether they believe in using agents to potentiate AD's (you can get casually throw in stimulants as an "example" with thyroid hormone, pindolol, lithium, multiple AD's, etc.) Ask how they feel about polypharmacy. Ask what they think about MAOI's (pdocs who will consider them today seem to be better-informed and more open-minded). If you're in a fairly large city, find pdoc names in the phone book and search Medline and Google to see if they have any writings that suggest they might be receptive to stimulants. If you're in a university town, note that university-affiliated pdocs are often more research-minded and tend to be more open-minded as a result.
>
> If you're stuck with Ms. SSRI-of-the-month, you need to be a little more persistent. Start subtly, and then get pushier in later visits if necessary. Tell her, for instance, that the latest AD may be helping some, but that it's continuing to cause so much fatigue or apathy that you can't appreciate the benefits. Keep it up as necessary. If you end up with Wellbutrin or Wellbutrin augmentation (and find it doesn't actually help!), just continue to act hopelessly fatigued and apathetic. (Again, this may mean just play up how you really feel, for all I can tell.)
>
> If you're interested in Provigil (vs. a traditional stim) and prone to anxiety, act as if Wellbutrin added too much anxiety (it DID for me), and point out how you've read that Provigil doesn't increase anxiety very often. If you're interested in Provigil as an AD augmentor per the recent studies, cite those studies as well as the safety factor vs. amphetamine-based stims (lower incidence of anxiety or crashing or blood pressure increases or addiction potential; Class IV substance vs. Ritalin's much more stringent prescription control/monitoring as a Class II, etc.)
>
> As long as you avoid coming off as someone looking for a fix -- and I highly doubt THAT would happen -- there's a good chance you'll get your stim prescription before long. Especially if you get a good pdoc.
>
> Good Luck,
> Rick
Posted by christophrejmc on November 7, 2001, at 15:45:25
In reply to Provigil » christophrejmc, posted by adamie on November 7, 2001, at 14:41:25
To-day is my second day on Provigil (100mg (I'm also taking desipramine which might make a difference.. or might not)). It seems to help with alertness, concentration, and energy. I'm still depressed, but I'm able to function better (less anxiety and more confidence).
> Providil worked for you after just one dose?? I've added this to the list of meds I am willing to try. Hopefully I can get my pdoc to prescribe it tomorrow.
Posted by JohnX2 on November 7, 2001, at 19:33:36
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them? » JohnX2, posted by adamie on November 7, 2001, at 15:01:40
I think its time for either:-stimulant
-MAO-B inhibitor - > Parnate,Selegilie
-anticonvulsant +- antidepressant (maybe lamictal or tegetrol?)Not too many people get depressed on Parnate
or Selegiline..I don't believe. And the manerix
experiment wasn't really indicative of how
an MAO-B inhibitor, which helps with dopamine
like a stimulant, would help.PS I don't believe that St. John's is ineffective.
The NIMH study was at 900 mg, and I believe 1800
mg is in order for major depression. It worked
for me, but not at 900. But I wouldn't recommend
it given you already went that route.regards,
john
>
> it is hard to remember how many pdocs I have worked with. One was doctor Risman. I dont remember anything except that he was a yucki doctor. very arrogant. then some other pdoc I think but not sure. Then when I admit myself to the hospital I had another pdoc. so 3 and also my normal family doctor. Also there was a 4th pdoc but that was only for one day when they sent me to the high risk suicidal section in a new hospital.
>
> regarding the medications, nothing has worked so far. although 1 week on paxil I was feeling quite better. I was actually living again. But then that passed and I was feeling horrible again. After that All AD's I've tried made my depression worse. I did try some natural stuff. I thought SAM-e worked a bit the first time I tried it. But the second and third time it seemed to have no effect. Also adrafinil for 2 weeks, no effect. 5-htp I am not sure what effect it had had. once I thought it was making me better. Then later I felt as if it was making me feel worse. I also tried salmon oil. St John's wort until I realized it was not for severe depression.
>
> During this depression there were a few up periods but they ended.
>
> The meds I have tried aside from what I already mentioned are paxil, prozac, wellbutrin, effexor, celexa, and for an extremely short time depakote and anfranil. Oh and also I have had 6 ECT's which seemed to not help or just help a little.
>
> Regarding faking having ADD, I dont think I am capable of that. I just wouldn't be able to remember all the things necessary to pull this off. Hopefully a pdoc will prescribe a stimulant anyway.
>
> > > hi. There seem to be a lot of messages on this forum regarding stimulants. I myself am desperate for relief and I'm just wondering, how do you get these stimulants? Do your pdoc's prescribe them after several AD failures or do you get them by some other means? I am sick of feeling this way. If something can help after just one dose then I want it. I'm the type of guy who wouldn't even drink coffee but now my life is on the line. please reply
> >
> > Well, you could read up on the symptoms of
> > ADD and go to a new pdoc and fake out the
> > symptoms. Don't tell him you have ADD, but
> > talk about the depression and all your failed
> > trials on meds, and if he says to try a med
> > tell him you already did and it didn't work.
> > List symptoms of ADD. He'll give you a stealth
> > ADD quiz like asking you to recite the months
> > backwards or count backwards from 100 subtracting
> > by 7's. Then he'll mention a list of fruits,
> > change the conversation to something else then
> > ask you to list the fruits again. Tell him
> > you have a lot of trouble sitting still. You
> > feel calm driving your car or walking around or
> > when you have caffeine in your system, otherwise
> > you are antsy.
> >
> > If your depression has reached rock bottom and
> > all else has failed, a stimulant is a choice
> > that the psychiatrist should acknowledge, however.
> >
> > How many pdocs have you worked with and what to
> > date has had any positive effect?
> >
> > sorry about your delimma,
> > -john
Posted by Rick on November 8, 2001, at 1:04:13
In reply to Re: Provigil » adamie, posted by christophrejmc on November 7, 2001, at 15:45:25
Christophre -
It's good to hear that Provigil is helping you in several ways. Maybe this combo will finally be the one that clicks for your depression. Your early positive reaction to the Provigil certainly can't hurt!
I'm curious about a few things, if you care to share:
--Did your pdoc suggest the Provigil, or did you?
--If it was your own suggestion, did you have to do any convincing? Did your pdoc have any comments about his/her previous experience with Provigil, if any?
--Was it positioned as a way to fight fatigue/apathy, as a way to boost your AD, both, or ???
--Did you start the desimpramine at the same time?Rick
> To-day is my second day on Provigil (100mg (I'm also taking desipramine which might make a difference.. or might not)). It seems to help with alertness, concentration, and energy. I'm still depressed, but I'm able to function better (less anxiety and more confidence).
>
> > Providil worked for you after just one dose?? I've added this to the list of meds I am willing to try. Hopefully I can get my pdoc to prescribe it tomorrow.
Posted by christophrejmc on November 8, 2001, at 2:26:51
In reply to Re: Provigil » christophrejmc, posted by Rick on November 8, 2001, at 1:04:13
I think I asked "can I get some Provigil?" and she replied "sure." For the first time I have a doctor that actually asks for (and listens to) my input (she knows that I read a lot and am responsible, etc.). She said that she has found it fairly effective for mild ADD-like symptoms. I started the desipramine along with Zyprexa three weeks ago. The Zyprexa made me realise what I *didn't* want from a psychoactive (slugishness and dulled affect), which is why I thought a more activating drug might be more helpful. (I stopped the Zyprexa three days before starting Provigil.)
> Christophre -
>
> It's good to hear that Provigil is helping you in several ways. Maybe this combo will finally be the one that clicks for your depression. Your early positive reaction to the Provigil certainly can't hurt!
>
> I'm curious about a few things, if you care to share:
> --Did your pdoc suggest the Provigil, or did you?
> --If it was your own suggestion, did you have to do any convincing? Did your pdoc have any comments about his/her previous experience with Provigil, if any?
> --Was it positioned as a way to fight fatigue/apathy, as a way to boost your AD, both, or ???
> --Did you start the desimpramine at the same time?
>
> Rick
Posted by Dreamy on November 8, 2001, at 16:51:36
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them? » adamie, posted by JohnX2 on November 6, 2001, at 23:22:41
So do you guys all think that if you told your
doctor that you had a serious abusive past of
amphetamene street drugs that he wouldn't give
you a scrip even if it would be the best thing
for you -otherwise you wouldn't have been abusing
them in the first place?
Posted by JohnX2 on November 8, 2001, at 21:41:33
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them?, posted by Dreamy on November 8, 2001, at 16:51:36
probably. better to lay low on those meds.
just my own personal experience.-john
> So do you guys all think that if you told your
> doctor that you had a serious abusive past of
> amphetamene street drugs that he wouldn't give
> you a scrip even if it would be the best thing
> for you -otherwise you wouldn't have been abusing
> them in the first place?
Posted by JohnX2 on November 8, 2001, at 21:46:28
In reply to Re: Provigil » Rick, posted by christophrejmc on November 8, 2001, at 2:26:51
FYI, the zyprexa blocks the alpha-1 adrenoreceptor
which indirectly inhibits glutamate release.
Geodon is much less likely to have the
side effect because it doesn't block the alpha-1
receptor like zyprexa. Serzone and Trazodone
potently block the alpha-1 adrenoreceptor.
Provigil is pro-glutamate release.-john
> I think I asked "can I get some Provigil?" and she replied "sure." For the first time I have a doctor that actually asks for (and listens to) my input (she knows that I read a lot and am responsible, etc.). She said that she has found it fairly effective for mild ADD-like symptoms. I started the desipramine along with Zyprexa three weeks ago. The Zyprexa made me realise what I *didn't* want from a psychoactive (slugishness and dulled affect), which is why I thought a more activating drug might be more helpful. (I stopped the Zyprexa three days before starting Provigil.)
>
>
> > Christophre -
> >
> > It's good to hear that Provigil is helping you in several ways. Maybe this combo will finally be the one that clicks for your depression. Your early positive reaction to the Provigil certainly can't hurt!
> >
> > I'm curious about a few things, if you care to share:
> > --Did your pdoc suggest the Provigil, or did you?
> > --If it was your own suggestion, did you have to do any convincing? Did your pdoc have any comments about his/her previous experience with Provigil, if any?
> > --Was it positioned as a way to fight fatigue/apathy, as a way to boost your AD, both, or ???
> > --Did you start the desimpramine at the same time?
> >
> > Rick
Posted by Dreamy on November 9, 2001, at 19:38:58
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them? » Dreamy, posted by JohnX2 on November 8, 2001, at 21:41:33
Layen low aint gonna work -cats autta bag...
Have tried Butrin, Proz, Zolf, Celex, and now
Zeffer w/Butrin... GADS. Still not getting the
punch needed to crank out great work all day...etc.Question for you...
I found a company that sells modiodal over the net
which they claim is the same as modafanil which
is claimed to be the same as provigil...
Could this be???I read up a little on related meds and found that
Provigil is rated class IV while ritalin, adderall
and others have lower numbers... like II etc.
What does this meen???Would provigil be more or less uplifting then
Adderall, Desoxyn or Dexedrine?Are these meds only scibed in very serious cases
of lethargy or what?I'm convinced I would be 100% better with one of them...
however, I am also convinced that a doctor will not
prescribe them to me...or at least my current doc
wont (I haven't asked...so maybe but maybe not...)Thnks.
Dreamy>
> probably. better to lay low on those meds.
> just my own personal experience.
>
> -john
>
> > So do you guys all think that if you told your
> > doctor that you had a serious abusive past of
> > amphetamene street drugs that he wouldn't give
> > you a scrip even if it would be the best thing
> > for you -otherwise you wouldn't have been abusing
> > them in the first place?
Posted by Dreamy on November 9, 2001, at 19:41:32
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them? » Dreamy, posted by JohnX2 on November 8, 2001, at 21:41:33
Nother Q...maybe there is a place where I could be
part of a study for new meds???
Is there somewhere you know of where I could look
and sign up?
>
> probably. better to lay low on those meds.
> just my own personal experience.
>
> -john
>
> > So do you guys all think that if you told your
> > doctor that you had a serious abusive past of
> > amphetamene street drugs that he wouldn't give
> > you a scrip even if it would be the best thing
> > for you -otherwise you wouldn't have been abusing
> > them in the first place?
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 10, 2001, at 0:38:57
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them? JohnX2, posted by Dreamy on November 9, 2001, at 19:41:32
Hi, everyone,
Just a reminder that this site shouldn't be used to discuss how to obtain prescription medications without prescriptions...
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Bob
Posted by Rick on November 10, 2001, at 2:37:34
In reply to Re: Stimulants, how do you get them? JohnX2, posted by Dreamy on November 9, 2001, at 19:41:32
> Nother Q...maybe there is a place where I could be
> part of a study for new meds???
> Is there somewhere you know of where I could look
> and sign up?http://clinicaltrials.gov
http://www.acurian.com>I read up a little on related meds and found that
Provigil is rated class IV while ritalin, adderall
and others have lower numbers... like II etc.
What does this meen???
There are five restricted-drug classes in the U.S., schedules I-V. The *lower* the number, the more restricted the med is. Schedule I includes a lot of street drugs rarely used for medicinal purposes. Schedule II are meds deemed to have very high addiction or abuse potential. This includes most stumulants, including Ritalin, since they are amphetamine-based. Schedule II prescriptions are very restricted, with limited refills, no call-ins, strict documentation, and in some states additional restrictions such as triplicate script copies.Schedule III includes narcotics with a fairly high abuse potential, including analgesics with codeine, Vicodin, etc.
Schedule IV drugs, which are considered to have a significantly lower, but still present, abuse potential, include the benzos such as Xanax as well as the novel stmulant Provigil. (Provigil really has very low abuse potential, although it *theoretically* has adiction potential based on the reinforcing properties seen in lab animals. I haven't heard of a single case of Provigil dependence or withdrawal symptoms, let alone addiction.)
I'm not sure, but I think Schedule I includes meds that you can get without a presciption but need to sign a register, e.g. cough syrup with codeine. I believe specific Class I procedures vary by State, and some retailers won't sell them without a prescription.
Rick
This is the end of the thread.
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