![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by paxvox on August 30, 2001, at 13:09:07
In reply to Re: Concern about stereotyping, posted by Jane D on August 30, 2001, at 12:46:31
> It seems like a good idea if you are on drugs that have truly dangerous interactions with other common meds like MAO's do. But I would worry more about the wrong conclusion being drawn from my list of psychiatric drugs. If I am found unconscious it will NOT be from an overdose. I believe that Elizabeth posted here not long ago about being mis treated in a hospital because she was assumed to have taken an overdose.
>That is a valid point, I guess we do try to forget the rest of the "normal" people think we are whack!
Pax
> Jane
Posted by v on August 30, 2001, at 19:31:57
In reply to Re: Concern about stereotyping » Jane D, posted by paxvox on August 30, 2001, at 13:09:07
thanks for all your replies... i suppose i'm just paranoid about being mis-read
regards
v> > It seems like a good idea if you are on drugs that have truly dangerous interactions with other common meds like MAO's do. But I would worry more about the wrong conclusion being drawn from my list of psychiatric drugs. If I am found unconscious it will NOT be from an overdose. I believe that Elizabeth posted here not long ago about being mis treated in a hospital because she was assumed to have taken an overdose.
> >
>
> That is a valid point, I guess we do try to forget the rest of the "normal" people think we are whack!
>
> Pax
> > Jane
Posted by Elizabeth on August 31, 2001, at 15:28:28
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... » v, posted by paxvox on August 30, 2001, at 11:44:25
> I agree with other post about keeping a card, though I don't. I don't think even an ALS EMT would give you any meds except morphine or Ativan, and those only if you are in serious hurts.
They gave me Narcan and Ativan. I'm not sure what else they keep handy -- probably epinephrine, at least. (Narcan could do very nasty things to anyone on chronic opioids, BTW.)
> Most ERs will do a blood chem on you.
...but not necessarily a quantitative one. (I tested + for benzos because I'd been taking Klonopin regularly, duh.)
> The only real negative would be if they thought your were on a benzo overdose and gave you the antedote for that (however, all existing literature I have seen clearly warns about possible seizure risks if that is done).
I was lucky enough not to get the flumazenil challenge. Which was odd, seeing as they'd fixated on this idea that I'd OD'ed on benzos.
> However, I would think that since at least 70-90 million Americans are on SOME sort of med, that the ERs have become savy on dealing with those issues.
You'd think that, wouldn't you.
-elizabeth
Posted by Zo on August 31, 2001, at 15:42:26
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... » paxvox, posted by Elizabeth on August 31, 2001, at 15:28:28
Elizabeth,
What would you suggest carrying, by way of info?
Thanks,
Zo
Posted by Chris A. on September 1, 2001, at 0:34:57
In reply to in case of an accident..., posted by v on August 30, 2001, at 8:30:10
One of my past pDocs suggested wearing a bracelet stating "Allergic to Demerol" when taking an MAOI, since that is a potentially fatal interaction. I carry my pDoc's card in my wallet. When changing and titrating meds frequently it would be hard to maintain a list.
Chris A.
Posted by v on September 1, 2001, at 5:36:03
In reply to Re: in case of an accident..., posted by Chris A. on September 1, 2001, at 0:34:57
one of the reasons i started this thread is because i'm a cyclist, among other things (when i am functioning that is). i keep a card inside the little bag under my saddle with emergency contact & current meds
but the other reason i've been thinking about this is because i recently went to the doctor for a throat and chest infection... i couldn't get in to see my primary and had to settle for the doctor's asssistant, whom i've not had good luck with in the past - i suspect him of being a recovering addict because of his refusal to dispense anything with any narcotic properties... in other words anything that works for me... i have a very low pain threshhold and a very high tolerance to opiads of any kind since my meds... btw, i am not an abuser, just someone looking for relief... which is what the damn things were designed for... but i digress, although this is somewhat pertinent to my recent experience.
now supposedly (i even asked to make sure) the doctor's assistant has "your" chart - there is supposed to be only one chart... my chart is filled with all my meds... the FIRST thing the primary does (or her nurse) is check on my current med status... this one didn't even ask (so what chart was he looking at?) and i was too sick to remember to say anything. rather than give me the cough medicine which should have been in my chart as having worked before (really nasty brown stuff, it's strong and it works) he gives me a cough medicine with dextromethorphan - basically same stuff as over the counter but stronger... now here come the fun part... i have discovered that i have a weird reaction to dextromethorphan... i've pinpionted it to either effexor or ritalin since those have been the only drugs which i have been on consistently for some time now, although at different doses. the only warning label on cough medicines with this ingredient pertain to maoi's so i wasn't too concerned... and so i accepted what was obviously just a stronger version of an over the counter that i'd have to pay more for
the first night, i took the prescription dextramethorphan, my partner said i was slurring severly like i was drunk and sent me off to bed. the next day (being too sick to go to work) when i took the next dose i found myself in bed the whole day feeling both drunk and on acid... hallucinating, not unpleasantly but enough to know it was happening and i didn't move around much... most of the time i lay fascinated by what i could see inside my eyelids when i closed my eyes... the next dose put me to what i think may have been the edge of psychosis - as i remember having this feeling that i could continue to let go and recede into this place and not come back if i wanted to but i feared still feeling physical sensation (i tested whether i could still feel the air on my skin) and would therefore know what horrible things were being done to me, obviously i returned. when i finally tried to get up i felt horrible, my motor skills severely impaired, and threw the rest of the damn stuff away
before i am chastised for having testing it 3 times, i will admit to being an old hippie and somewhat adventurous to experimentation... besides the drug labels didn't say it was toxic to me... although it obviously was
my current cocktail is faily complicated, as it contains alot of different meds
what other, possibly "benign" substances could harm me... and are they also linked to some of the same toxicity of maoi's?
what protection do i have? i've been thinking, maybe a medic-alert bracelet that says something like "check for medications listed elsewhere on card" with my pdocs phone # on it... would that help? is it a worthwhile investment - and could it protect people from being misdiagnosed like elizabeth was as having overdosed on benzos or imagine having those wonderful side effects of missing your effexor dose or whatever else becomes addictive to the body... how would they understand that? i just don't think we can assume that the medical care we receive in an emergency or any situation will be good... there are countless stories about the "practice" of medicine
i apologize for rambling for so long... i know i could've left much of out but i don't want to go back and edit myself, as i so often do in the outside world... so i appreciate anyone who reads the whole thing and maybe wants to comment or share
("edited" here so as not to go on any longer... i've psycho-babbled at you enough.. :)
blessings to all
v"those who hear not the music... think the dancers mad"
> One of my past pDocs suggested wearing a bracelet stating "Allergic to Demerol" when taking an MAOI, since that is a potentially fatal interaction. I carry my pDoc's card in my wallet. When changing and titrating meds frequently it would be hard to maintain a list.
>
> Chris A.
Posted by susan C on September 1, 2001, at 12:36:44
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG, posted by v on September 1, 2001, at 5:36:03
I have been keep a msword document, I update it before I go to any doctor. I list everything I am taking or expect to take, what it is for, when I started, how much and possible side effects, who prescribed it when and their name address and phone number. I keep reducing the font size and margins to fit on one page (lol) At the top in big letters I state what I am allergic to and what my reactions are. I put this with my wallet, my collection of medicines and vitamins I take, my pocket, the car and my spouse. And, of course, everytime I go in to the gp (or other doc) I hand them a new one. The intake nurse is always so appreciative, as she then does not need to write all this down.
This is all qualified, by sometimes I am too confused to keep track of anything, but it does get done before I go to doc, as I am very tired of telling them everything I take.
Just my way. Susan C.
one of the reasons i started this thread is because i'm a cyclist, among other things (when i am functioning that is). i keep a card inside the little bag under my saddle with emergency contact & current meds
>
> but the other reason i've been thinking about this is because i recently went to the doctor for a throat and chest infection... i couldn't get in to see my primary and had to settle for the doctor's asssistant, whom i've not had good luck with in the past - i suspect him of being a recovering addict because of his refusal to dispense anything with any narcotic properties... in other words anything that works for me... i have a very low pain threshhold and a very high tolerance to opiads of any kind since my meds... btw, i am not an abuser, just someone looking for relief... which is what the damn things were designed for... but i digress, although this is somewhat pertinent to my recent experience.
>
> now supposedly (i even asked to make sure) the doctor's assistant has "your" chart - there is supposed to be only one chart... my chart is filled with all my meds... the FIRST thing the primary does (or her nurse) is check on my current med status... this one didn't even ask (so what chart was he looking at?) and i was too sick to remember to say anything. rather than give me the cough medicine which should have been in my chart as having worked before (really nasty brown stuff, it's strong and it works) he gives me a cough medicine with dextromethorphan - basically same stuff as over the counter but stronger... now here come the fun part... i have discovered that i have a weird reaction to dextromethorphan... i've pinpionted it to either effexor or ritalin since those have been the only drugs which i have been on consistently for some time now, although at different doses. the only warning label on cough medicines with this ingredient pertain to maoi's so i wasn't too concerned... and so i accepted what was obviously just a stronger version of an over the counter that i'd have to pay more for
>
> the first night, i took the prescription dextramethorphan, my partner said i was slurring severly like i was drunk and sent me off to bed. the next day (being too sick to go to work) when i took the next dose i found myself in bed the whole day feeling both drunk and on acid... hallucinating, not unpleasantly but enough to know it was happening and i didn't move around much... most of the time i lay fascinated by what i could see inside my eyelids when i closed my eyes... the next dose put me to what i think may have been the edge of psychosis - as i remember having this feeling that i could continue to let go and recede into this place and not come back if i wanted to but i feared still feeling physical sensation (i tested whether i could still feel the air on my skin) and would therefore know what horrible things were being done to me, obviously i returned. when i finally tried to get up i felt horrible, my motor skills severely impaired, and threw the rest of the damn stuff away
>
> before i am chastised for having testing it 3 times, i will admit to being an old hippie and somewhat adventurous to experimentation... besides the drug labels didn't say it was toxic to me... although it obviously was
>
> my current cocktail is faily complicated, as it contains alot of different meds
>
> what other, possibly "benign" substances could harm me... and are they also linked to some of the same toxicity of maoi's?
>
> what protection do i have? i've been thinking, maybe a medic-alert bracelet that says something like "check for medications listed elsewhere on card" with my pdocs phone # on it... would that help? is it a worthwhile investment - and could it protect people from being misdiagnosed like elizabeth was as having overdosed on benzos or imagine having those wonderful side effects of missing your effexor dose or whatever else becomes addictive to the body... how would they understand that? i just don't think we can assume that the medical care we receive in an emergency or any situation will be good... there are countless stories about the "practice" of medicine
>
> i apologize for rambling for so long... i know i could've left much of out but i don't want to go back and edit myself, as i so often do in the outside world... so i appreciate anyone who reads the whole thing and maybe wants to comment or share
>
> ("edited" here so as not to go on any longer... i've psycho-babbled at you enough.. :)
>
> blessings to all
> v
>
> "those who hear not the music... think the dancers mad"
>
>
> > One of my past pDocs suggested wearing a bracelet stating "Allergic to Demerol" when taking an MAOI, since that is a potentially fatal interaction. I carry my pDoc's card in my wallet. When changing and titrating meds frequently it would be hard to maintain a list.
> >
> > Chris A.
Posted by v on September 3, 2001, at 13:56:03
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG, posted by susan C on September 1, 2001, at 12:36:44
hi susan... thanks for taking the time to reply...
your solution is a good one as it obviously works for you but i tweak my meds often and don't always know what my reactions would be... who could've predicted that dextramethorphan would be toxic to me? are doctors aware of such toxicities? it only mentions maois on the bottle...
is there an authority out there for whether certain classes of drugs have other interactions like i experienced? Dr.Bob, what would you suggest?
on the other hand i will definitely be more diligent and will keep a list (even if i have to change it) to present to physicians... although my current primary freaked when she saw my list from last year... i can't imagine what she's going to do when she hears about the new stuff... i have found that most medical doctors don't really understand the concept of "cocktails" - that brain chemistry differs so widely that we each must find our own relief ... my primary has become very reluctant to prescribe pain killers if i need them (i have degenerative disc disease in both my neck and lower back) or much of anything really as she thinks i'm in such an "altered" state from so many drus to begin with
so does someone - a pdoc - (Dr. Bob again?) need to write articles explaining this to others doctors in their own journals... how do we achieve the greater understanding we all crave... how to educate those in particular who already think they know everything
blessing to you all... hope you weekend was a good one
v
"those who hear not the music... think the dancers mad"> I have been keep a msword document, I update it before I go to any doctor. I list everything I am taking or expect to take, what it is for, when I started, how much and possible side effects, who prescribed it when and their name address and phone number. I keep reducing the font size and margins to fit on one page (lol) At the top in big letters I state what I am allergic to and what my reactions are. I put this with my wallet, my collection of medicines and vitamins I take, my pocket, the car and my spouse. And, of course, everytime I go in to the gp (or other doc) I hand them a new one. The intake nurse is always so appreciative, as she then does not need to write all this down.
>
> This is all qualified, by sometimes I am too confused to keep track of anything, but it does get done before I go to doc, as I am very tired of telling them everything I take.
>
> Just my way. Susan C.
Posted by susan C on September 3, 2001, at 14:44:24
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG » susan C, posted by v on September 3, 2001, at 13:56:03
Hi, V,
Yes, I am tweeking things too, I have also found my reactions different than what is listed on the enclosures. For me, it is antihistamines, they toss me into suicidal depression within 48 hours, but no one, here, nor the Pharmacist, can find any reference to my experience. The closest is a listed 2% experience of drowsiness in the research of the new types like Allegra. I have found only two people one, a good friend and on another on another posting place, that have experience a similar experience with antihistamines, even the new ones that supposedly do not cross the blood brain barrier. One pdoc described me as saying 'she believes Allegra to have caused ....' arrrrrgh. I think this common thread of trying things and getting unusual, diverse reactions and trying combinations of things centering around depression and manic draws me to this board. There are many of us who have tried and tried to find solutions and are attentively watching for the next possible solution. Thank you for your post. It reminds me that if an emergency happens I need to be extra prepared.
Susan C.
Posted by Elizabeth on September 8, 2001, at 21:54:48
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... » Elizabeth, posted by Zo on August 31, 2001, at 15:42:26
> What would you suggest carrying, by way of info?
How about one of those dogtags (gets in the way less than a bracelet), inscribed "see wallet card?" (Don't forget the card, of course. < g >)
-elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on September 8, 2001, at 21:56:19
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG, posted by susan C on September 1, 2001, at 12:36:44
> I have been keep a msword document, I update it before I go to any doctor.
That's smart (well, except for the Word part < VBG >).
-anti-microsoft elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on September 8, 2001, at 22:05:32
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG, posted by v on September 1, 2001, at 5:36:03
> i couldn't get in to see my primary and had to settle for the doctor's asssistant, whom i've not had good luck with in the past - i suspect him of being a recovering addict because of his refusal to dispense anything with any narcotic properties...
Naw, lots of clinicians have that sort of attitude. Nurses and "mid-level providers" might be worse than physicians.
> in other words anything that works for me... i have a very low pain threshhold and a very high tolerance to opiads of any kind since my meds...
"Intrinsic tolerance" as opposed to acquired tolerance? That's me too. (Chronic musculoskeletal pain, hypersensitivity to cold, etc.)
> btw, i am not an abuser, just someone looking for relief... which is what the damn things were designed for... but i digress, although this is somewhat pertinent to my recent experience.
If you'd been born 100 years ago you'd have no problem getting them. Sad, n'est-ce pas?
> now supposedly (i even asked to make sure) the doctor's assistant has "your" chart - there is supposed to be only one chart...
I ran into this problem when I was in the hospital (medical, not psych) this spring. There seemed to be very poor communication and documentation among the hospital staff.
> i have discovered that i have a weird reaction to dextromethorphan... i've pinpionted it to either effexor or ritalin since those have been the only drugs which i have been on consistently for some time now, although at different doses.
DXM can definitely interact with Effexor. (I have weird reactions to it by itself, in recommended doses. Anyway, it's not a very effective cough suppressant IMO.)
> the first night, i took the prescription dextramethorphan, my partner said i was slurring severly like i was drunk and sent me off to bed.
Bingo! Slurred speech, ataxia, etc. are symptoms of DXM overdose.
> what other, possibly "benign" substances could harm me... and are they also linked to some of the same toxicity of maoi's?
Hmm. Ultram comes to mind.
-e
Posted by susan C on September 8, 2001, at 23:19:12
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG » susan C, posted by Elizabeth on September 8, 2001, at 21:56:19
> > I have been keep a msword document, I update it before I go to any doctor.
>
> That's smart (well, except for the Word part < VBG >).
>
> -anti-microsoft elizabethbut I got it for free because of friends of son interning there....
Posted by v on September 9, 2001, at 5:46:41
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG » v, posted by Elizabeth on September 8, 2001, at 22:05:32
thanks for replying
ultram - that's the only painkiller this idiot will ever give me... i haven't had any reactions to it although i've taken as much as 15 in a day seeking relief... imho, it's worthlesss, for me at least
regards,
v> > i couldn't get in to see my primary and had to settle for the doctor's asssistant, whom i've not had good luck with in the past - i suspect him of being a recovering addict because of his refusal to dispense anything with any narcotic properties...
>
> Naw, lots of clinicians have that sort of attitude. Nurses and "mid-level providers" might be worse than physicians.
>
> > in other words anything that works for me... i have a very low pain threshhold and a very high tolerance to opiads of any kind since my meds...
>
> "Intrinsic tolerance" as opposed to acquired tolerance? That's me too. (Chronic musculoskeletal pain, hypersensitivity to cold, etc.)
>
> > btw, i am not an abuser, just someone looking for relief... which is what the damn things were designed for... but i digress, although this is somewhat pertinent to my recent experience.
>
> If you'd been born 100 years ago you'd have no problem getting them. Sad, n'est-ce pas?
>
> > now supposedly (i even asked to make sure) the doctor's assistant has "your" chart - there is supposed to be only one chart...
>
> I ran into this problem when I was in the hospital (medical, not psych) this spring. There seemed to be very poor communication and documentation among the hospital staff.
>
> > i have discovered that i have a weird reaction to dextromethorphan... i've pinpionted it to either effexor or ritalin since those have been the only drugs which i have been on consistently for some time now, although at different doses.
>
> DXM can definitely interact with Effexor. (I have weird reactions to it by itself, in recommended doses. Anyway, it's not a very effective cough suppressant IMO.)
>
> > the first night, i took the prescription dextramethorphan, my partner said i was slurring severly like i was drunk and sent me off to bed.
>
> Bingo! Slurred speech, ataxia, etc. are symptoms of DXM overdose.
>
> > what other, possibly "benign" substances could harm me... and are they also linked to some of the same toxicity of maoi's?
>
> Hmm. Ultram comes to mind.
>
> -e
Posted by Rach on September 9, 2001, at 11:43:30
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG » Elizabeth, posted by v on September 9, 2001, at 5:46:41
been thinking of you lately. how's it all going?
(apologies for being on the wrong board)
Posted by Elizabeth on September 12, 2001, at 3:32:06
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG » Elizabeth, posted by v on September 9, 2001, at 5:46:41
> ultram - that's the only painkiller this idiot will ever give me... i haven't had any reactions to it although i've taken as much as 15 in a day seeking relief... imho, it's worthlesss, for me at least
Me too. But anyway, try to get some citations about the serotonin syndrome from Ultram with ADs and show them to the PA who's your "mid-level provider." :-P (Which AD are you taking, BTW?)
-elizabeth
Posted by v on September 12, 2001, at 6:19:09
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG » v, posted by Elizabeth on September 12, 2001, at 3:32:06
good morning elizabeth
i was in the middle of a long explanation of my meds when my computer crashed.... so here's a somewhat truncated version (turning rather long anyway... )
what a great idea about getting some documentation... would a search for seratonin syndrome show up the dextramethorphan as well? what about the high tolerance to pain meds? i go for a "physical" with my primary next week who has no understanding of "cocktails" to suit each individual's needs... all she sees are lots of drugs and she freaks on me and then doesn't want to give me anything else i need (particularly pain killers which i sorely need for my neck and back)
last year all she would say was that i was already in such an "altered" state... she just doesn't get it... i'm actually dreading having to tell her about the current cocktail and have even thought about leaving some of them out (i know, it's probably not that great an idea)my current cocktail is:
• 36mg concerta
• 200mg wellbutrin 2x daily
• 75mg effexor
• 1mg klonopin 3x daily (i only take .5 with my morning meds)
• 10mg buspar (this is something i've recently snuck back in - pdoc says its worthless, which was true for me regarding any anti-anxiety effects but it did have an anti-depressant effect for me which i feel i need - i figured i'd give it a trial run and then tell him when i see him next month - i think it's helping although with me, it's sometimes hard to tell.. :)
• valium, xanax & ambien on an as needed basis only, usually when i am particularly stressed (like yesterday) or am having difficulty falling asleepi still have alot of trouble getting out of the house initially... or initiating doing the things i enjoy... in fact, there is still a lack of joy in my life (hence the buspar trial), i am still easily stressed out & can become resentful (which can be the norm for me and something i dislike intensely)
i'm also turning into a scatter brained idiot from some of the meds... memory problems & sometimes it feels as if the add is worse instead of better... it's complicated by the fact that my personality is so fragmented. my current pdoc thinks EVERYTHING wrong with me is due to add (it's like he stamped it on my forehead) but i also suffer from ptsd, did and depression and have gone back into therapy to try and deal with not wanting to deal with life... for me yesterday was an extreme example of it: why should i want to remain in a world so full of hate? i can't bear the human capacity for cruelty (to each other, to animals, to the planet) it hurts, it hurts, it hurts....
sorry this turned into such a long winded answer...
btw, what ad's are you taking if you don't mind my asking? i've really appreciated your posts on this board...
blessings,
v
> Me too. But anyway, try to get some citations about the serotonin syndrome from Ultram with ADs and show them to the PA who's your "mid-level provider." :-P (Which AD are you taking, BTW?)
>
> -elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on September 12, 2001, at 21:30:50
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG...LONG » Elizabeth, posted by v on September 12, 2001, at 6:19:09
> what a great idea about getting some documentation... would a search for seratonin syndrome show up the dextramethorphan as well?
Searching for "serotonin" and "dextromethorphan" might get you what you're looking for (be sure to spell them right < g >).
> what about the high tolerance to pain meds?
Have you used opioids a lot in the past? Some people (such as myself) seem to be resistant to opioids before ever having tried them. It's tough convincing a doctor that you're not a drug addict, isn't it?
> my current cocktail is:
> • 36mg concerta
> • 200mg wellbutrin 2x daily
> • 75mg effexor
> • 1mg klonopin 3x daily (i only take .5 with my morning meds)
> • 10mg busparThe Concerta (and maybe Klonopin) are the only things that stand out. I would suggest seeing a psychiatrist, though. Get a referral from your GP.
Buspar can augment the Effexor, BTW.
> • valium, xanax & ambien on an as needed basis only, usually when i am particularly stressed (like yesterday) or am having difficulty falling asleep
I think you could possibly leave those out if you only use them occasionally and familiarise yourself with possible interactions.
> i still have alot of trouble getting out of the house initially... or initiating doing the things i enjoy... in fact, there is still a lack of joy in my life (hence the buspar trial), i am still easily stressed out & can become resentful (which can be the norm for me and something i dislike intensely)
I understand. Have you ever tried Remeron? I know a few people who've described similar problems to yours who've found it extremely helpful.
> btw, what ad's are you taking if you don't mind my asking? i've really appreciated your posts on this board...
Thank you. Since you ask:
desipramine 50 mg 4x/day
buprenorphine 1 mL (= 0.3 mg) 3x/day
Klonopin 1 mg morning, 1 mg afternoon, 2 mg bedtimeAnd some other stuff to counteract side effects. < g >
-elizabeth
Posted by v on September 13, 2001, at 6:37:46
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG...LONG » v, posted by Elizabeth on September 12, 2001, at 21:30:50
good morning elizabeth
> Searching for "serotonin" and "dextromethorphan" might get you what you're looking for (be sure to spell them right < g >).
it worked wonders... i've gotten all this information about dextromethorphan & ultram, all the junk they give me to avoid - oh horrors! - opiads - which, of course, work without bad interactions. and i got some stuff about opiads and why they can or should be used as well
> Have you used opioids a lot in the past? Some people (such as myself) seem to be resistant to opioids before ever having tried them. It's tough convincing a doctor that you're not a drug addict, isn't it?i've used opiads for pain off and on for years and usually was responsive to smaller doses than now... i think the ritalin may be responsible but i'm not sure... and i also used to be one of those people who broke a 5mg valium in half to go to sleep but i know that tolerance is due to the klonopin
and yes!, it is impossible to get a doctor to see that you are not a drug addict!!! they're all so worried about "addiction" rather than relief. well, i'm already addicted to half the stuff i take - can't just stop the effexor or the klonopin now can i... so what's the difference? these medications were made to be used because they work
> The Concerta (and maybe Klonopin) are the only things that stand out. I would suggest seeing a psychiatrist, though. Get a referral from your GP.
>
> Buspar can augment the Effexor, BTW.i do see a psychiatrist for my meds... he's the one who sees ADD stamped on my forehead for some reason. and i know that the buspar augments the effexor, that's why i take it... it's far more benign to me than a higher effexor dose
so i'm thinking of telling my primary only about the concerta, klonopin and effexor - that's enough to make her think i'm "altered" as it is
> > i still have alot of trouble getting out of the house initially... or initiating doing the things i enjoy... in fact, there is still a lack of joy in my life (hence the buspar trial), i am still easily stressed out & can become resentful (which can be the norm for me and something i dislike intensely)
>
> I understand. Have you ever tried Remeron? I know a few people who've described similar problems to yours who've found it extremely helpful.i'll look into remeron but i seem to recall that it carries the dreaded "weight gain" which is not an option for me as i've been eating disordered all my life. since i started the wellbutrin, i have had better impulse control and am s-l-ow-l-y losing some of the weight i've gained the past couple of years. for me being overweight is downright hell... i've been an athlete of sorts off and on in different sports over the years and like and need to feel strong and lean... makes me feel more grounded and better able to deal with the hellish world out there
> > btw, what ad's are you taking if you don't mind my asking? i've really appreciated your posts on this board...
>
> Thank you. Since you ask:
> desipramine 50 mg 4x/day
> buprenorphine 1 mL (= 0.3 mg) 3x/day
> Klonopin 1 mg morning, 1 mg afternoon, 2 mg bedtime
>
> And some other stuff to counteract side effects. < g >
> -elizabethis this combo working well for you?
btw, you have me somewhat interested in the buprenorphine as i've read several posts about itthanks again & again for all your support... you've been of tremendous help
blessings,
v
Posted by Elizabeth on September 13, 2001, at 10:58:34
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG...LONG » Elizabeth, posted by v on September 13, 2001, at 6:37:46
> good morning elizabeth
hiya.
> > Have you used opioids a lot in the past? Some people (such as myself) seem to be resistant to opioids before ever having tried them. It's tough convincing a doctor that you're not a drug addict, isn't it?
>
> i've used opiads for pain off and on for years and usually was responsive to smaller doses than now...You might be developing tolerance, or some other dysfunction of your endogenous opioid system. I don't know -- opioid receptors were the first ones discovered, but we still don't really know how they work, interact with other systems, etc.
> i think the ritalin may be responsible but i'm not sure...
Hmm. Why do you think that?
> and yes!, it is impossible to get a doctor to see that you are not a drug addict!!! they're all so worried about "addiction" rather than relief.
Well, what they're really worried about is losing their licenses. But seriously, the attitude in this country toward drug addicts is like the attitudes in the '50s toward Communists.
> well, i'm already addicted to half the stuff i take - can't just stop the effexor or the klonopin now can i... so what's the difference?
Uh-uh. That's not addiction. The definition of addiction -- "substance dependence," is the official name for it -- can be found on many websites. Here's one: http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/subdep.htm
> these medications were made to be used because they work
You'd *think* that, wouldn't you?!
> i do see a psychiatrist for my meds... he's the one who sees ADD stamped on my forehead for some reason.
IMO, some doctors have pet diagnoses that they see in everybody they encounter.
> and i know that the buspar augments the effexor, that's why i take it... it's far more benign to me than a higher effexor dose
You know, one thing you could try doing to see if it helps would be raising the Buspar dose, to something like 60 mg or even more.
> so i'm thinking of telling my primary only about the concerta, klonopin and effexor - that's enough to make her think i'm "altered" as it is
A friend of mine tells me that when he asked to try adding stimulants to his Xanax, he was told that "stimulants and benzodiazepines are only seen together in abuse."
> i'll look into remeron but i seem to recall that it carries the dreaded "weight gain" which is not an option for me as i've been eating disordered all my life.
It might be worth a try. I tried it for a month or so and didn't gain any weight. I started out on 30 mg and rapidly increased it to 60. I think that the weight gain is more of a problem at the lower doses.
> since i started the wellbutrin, i have had better impulse control and am s-l-ow-l-y losing some of the weight i've gained the past couple of years.
Hey, congratulations. I don't know why they don't try to market Wellbutrin as a diet pill. (Maybe it's because diet pills are assumed to have "abuse potential.") I know it's a slow process, but I think that if you are gradually losing weight rather than going on a major diet and losing it all at once, you're probably less likely to regain it. (Does that make sense?)
> is this combo working well for you?
> btw, you have me somewhat interested in the buprenorphine as i've read several posts about itYes, I think it's working well. I'm feeling more interested in life than I have in a long time.
> thanks again & again for all your support... you've been of tremendous help
Flattery will get you everywhere. :-)
-elizabeth
Posted by Zo on September 13, 2001, at 17:42:08
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG...LONG » v, posted by Elizabeth on September 13, 2001, at 10:58:34
> A friend of mine tells me that when he asked to try >adding stimulants to his Xanax, he was told that >"stimulants and benzodiazepines are only seen together >in abuse."
One positive effect Buprenorphine I've noticed is that I can read infuriating statements like this one without becoming furious.
Zo
Posted by Elizabeth on September 14, 2001, at 8:15:39
In reply to Re: positive effect of buprenorphine, posted by Zo on September 13, 2001, at 17:42:08
Posted by v on September 16, 2001, at 6:43:51
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG...LONG » v, posted by Elizabeth on September 13, 2001, at 10:58:34
good morning elizabeth
> You know, one thing you could try doing to see if it helps would be raising the Buspar dose, to something like 60 mg or even more.
does buspar need to be taken in divided dosages?
i seem to remember that when i tried taking it twice a day i couldn't fall asleep at night... it was a very weird feeeling... my mind was just "on" and sleep was out of the question... i had no desire to to anything - didn't feel stimulated but there was definitely no sleep in my futureso how high could i raise my a.m. dose? this would of course, only be an option if my pdoc agrees to prescribe it- otherwise i'll be running out so will stay on 10mg until i see him next month and see how he even reacts to my little experiment...
hope you're doing well in the midst of all this tragedy
blessings,
v
Posted by Elizabeth on September 16, 2001, at 18:24:36
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... buspar » Elizabeth, posted by v on September 16, 2001, at 6:43:51
> does buspar need to be taken in divided dosages?
At least at first, it probably should be taken in 2-3 divided doses per day.
> i seem to remember that when i tried taking it twice a day i couldn't fall asleep at night...
At what times did you take the two daily doses?
> so how high could i raise my a.m. dose?
"As tolerated." Buspar has been found to be safe in doses much higher than the recommended doses for anxiety or depression.
> hope you're doing well in the midst of all this tragedy
It could have been much worse. Thanks for your concern -- I hope you are well, too.
-elizabeth
Posted by v on September 17, 2001, at 7:22:29
In reply to Re: in case of an accident... LONG...LONG » v, posted by Elizabeth on September 13, 2001, at 10:58:34
good morning elizabeth... i know it's taken me some time to finish responding, but for what it's worth, here goes.. :)
> i think the ritalin may be responsible but i'm not sure...
>
> Hmm. Why do you think that?i's the only thing that seems to make sense is my opiad tolerance increased when i added ritalin to my meds... now painkillers don't really do a good job for me on the pain, so much as allowing me to just not mind it as much... perhaps it's the dopamine? i really don't know much about this stuff... but i have a VERY low threshold for pain, probably due to the pain in my past, the traumas and the depression itself
>
> > well, i'm already addicted to half the stuff i take - can't just stop the effexor or the klonopin now can i... so what's the difference?
>
> Uh-uh. That's not addiction. The definition of addiction -- "substance dependence," is the official name for it -- can be found on many websites. Here's one: http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/subdep.htmnow this one's been bothering me since you wrote it because that is the "therapeutic" definition...what they are really saying is addiction is substance abuse and i stress the word abuse since in the explanation for substance dependence they were talking about abuse... not dependence
the dictionary definiton of addiction is: compulsive physiological need for a habit forming drug
i'd say anything that causes withdrawal symptoms when removed fits the definition... i'm addicted to effexor & klonopin in that my body requires that i maintain the dosages... but i don't need to continually increase that dose , nor am i seeking out more from other sources.... nonetheless, i am addicted.
> > these medications were made to be used because they work
>
> You'd *think* that, wouldn't you?!their "definition" or rather their distortion of the definition is self-serving and is the very reason it is so hard for people to often get the drugs they need... substance use and substance abuse are such different things.
> > i do see a psychiatrist for my meds... he's the one who sees ADD stamped on my forehead for some reason.
>
> IMO, some doctors have pet diagnoses that they see in everybody they encounter.this is a bit of a problem for me particularly as my personality is so fragmented, he right is some ways but not in all... my add actually seems worse lately
> A friend of mine tells me that when he asked to try adding stimulants to his Xanax, he was told that "stimulants and benzodiazepines are only seen together in abuse."what can i say to that, it's so idiotic... makes me angry to even hear it
> Hey, congratulations. I don't know why they don't try to market Wellbutrin as a diet pill.
(Maybe it's because diet pills are assumed to have "abuse potential.")they already use it for quitting nicotine but i don't know if it would really work as a diet pill, because although it does help my impulse control, i must make a concerted effort to use it that way - it might help for compulsive overeaters but only if they also sought help for the need to compulsively overeat.. and they would probably also benefit from an ad to help their seratonin levels so you end up back with just us "admitted nut cases" - the magic pill it ain't... :)
well, enough babbling for now... as always i hope you are well
BTW, is there anything that can be done to help with the short term memory loss, word finding difficulty - even spelling! and general stupidity that seems to accompany these drugs? it frustrates the hell out me...
blessings,
v
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