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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 16# on July 25, 2001, at 19:58:25
Does anyone out there have an opinion about whether an Atkins-type diet is superior to a high carb or balanced Zone type diet for controlling or losing weight gained on meds?
If I seem overly obsessed with this issue, well I am. I cannot go off of meds. Overweightness is definitely the lesser of the two evils but damnit there is nothing more frustrating than doing all that I do and seeing no results. Since this is a metabolic thing that is happening, then I think that there has to be a way to out fox it. Let's figure it out!
Posted by tina on July 25, 2001, at 20:51:18
In reply to High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by 16# on July 25, 2001, at 19:58:25
> Does anyone out there have an opinion about whether an Atkins-type diet is superior to a high carb or balanced Zone type diet for controlling or losing weight gained on meds?
>
> If I seem overly obsessed with this issue, well I am. I cannot go off of meds. Overweightness is definitely the lesser of the two evils but damnit there is nothing more frustrating than doing all that I do and seeing no results. Since this is a metabolic thing that is happening, then I think that there has to be a way to out fox it. Let's figure it out!
If you are a carb addicted person then a high protein diet can help stabilize your blood sugar and insulin production. However, carbs are essential for normal brain function so don't restrict them too much. Very high protein diets with little or no carbs can be murder on the liver and with taking meds too, your liver can be overtaxed so be extremely careful and talk to your doc about it first.
If you do decide on a high protein diet, don't stay on it for long periods of time. go on it for a few weeks and then ease the carbs back in for a few weeks and cycle that way. It's healthier.
Remember, the only real way to lose weight, is exercise..no matter what you eat.
best of luck
tina
Posted by Lorraine on July 25, 2001, at 21:50:49
In reply to Re: High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by tina on July 25, 2001, at 20:51:18
> > Does anyone out there have an opinion about whether an Atkins-type diet is superior to a high carb or balanced Zone type diet for controlling or losing weight gained on meds?
> >
My experince with med induced weight gain was that the only way that I got it off was with a low carb diet. That is because my meds made me crave carbs. I started with Atkins and after I had lost the weight modified it as follows: I just don't eat rice, bread (except low carb bread made with soy flour), pasta, wheat or sugar. I eat a lot of vegetables, some fruit (one a day) and protein. My snacks tend to be nuts or cheese.Before I went on this diet, I was exercising 6 days a week for at least an hour a day and beginning to double up on my exercise requims--ultimately there were not enough hours in the day to do the amount of exercise that would have enabled me to lose weight. When I went low carb, I actually cut back on my exercise to 3x a week or so.
I would find it very hard to cycle on and off of low carb--the reason is that it is very hard to give up the sugars and refined carbs in the first place. To put myself through that ordeal periodically would be agonizing. There are a lot of low or lower carb choices out there depending on your needs. There is sugar busters (very liberal with unrefined carbs but no sugar); Atkins (very restricted carbs during induction then about 60 carbs a day); Protein Power (which is very restrictive for breakfast and lunch, but allows dinner to be without carb restriction provided that your plate is evenly balanced with protein, carbs and fats); Suzanne Sommers (which allows you to have carb meals so long as they are low or no fat, meals with fat so long as there are low or no carbs and fruit so long as it is eaten alone); The Zone (which represents a fairly balanced diet, while still reducing carbs significantly from what they are in a normal American diet--I believe between 240 and 300 is the norm). My FIL, who is diabetic, was recently put on a diet by his diabetes dietition which limited his carbs to 60 per meal--which he says is still a hard adjustment to make.
Anyway--good luck with it. I'm a low carber for life, although I'll bet I eat about 90 gm of carbs a day now.
Posted by susan C on July 25, 2001, at 22:43:58
In reply to High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by 16# on July 25, 2001, at 19:58:25
The diet plans sell books.
Everything I have read says, lose weight increase calorie burn, decrease calorie intake (but don't decrease so much your body is starving) eat lots of fresh vegies and fruit and lots of different kinds of food. Indulge yourself, slightly, on those things you really like (I had a hot fudge sundae the other day) and exercise, walk, vigourously vacuum...whatever it takes to get the bod moving. My weakness is cheese and butter. I love cheese. I can loose 5 lbs if I cut out cheese and butter...mmmm butter.
> Does anyone out there have an opinion about whether an Atkins-type diet is superior to a high carb or balanced Zone type diet for controlling or losing weight gained on meds?
>
> If I seem overly obsessed with this issue, well I am. I cannot go off of meds. Overweightness is definitely the lesser of the two evils but damnit there is nothing more frustrating than doing all that I do and seeing no results. Since this is a metabolic thing that is happening, then I think that there has to be a way to out fox it. Let's figure it out!
Posted by Cindylou on July 26, 2001, at 6:57:20
In reply to High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by 16# on July 25, 2001, at 19:58:25
The Zone is a "miracle drug" for my husband. He tried the Atkins diet, but it didn't do much for him. But when he's in "The Zone," he is a different person -- always positive and up, not moody, and his weight drops quickly. I like the Zone, because it definitely restricts carbs, but doesn't completely rule them out, and I do believe that some balance is necessary in dieting. (I used to be on every diet in the book, but meds actually make me lose weight so it's not a concern anymore.) I found that limiting carbs to about 100 grams a day made a difference in my carb cravings and mood.
Only problem with the Zone is that it's not the easiest diet to be on ... my husband has a hard time staying on it.
good luck!
cindy
> Does anyone out there have an opinion about whether an Atkins-type diet is superior to a high carb or balanced Zone type diet for controlling or losing weight gained on meds?
>
> If I seem overly obsessed with this issue, well I am. I cannot go off of meds. Overweightness is definitely the lesser of the two evils but damnit there is nothing more frustrating than doing all that I do and seeing no results. Since this is a metabolic thing that is happening, then I think that there has to be a way to out fox it. Let's figure it out!
Posted by Jocor on July 26, 2001, at 7:00:17
In reply to High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by 16# on July 25, 2001, at 19:58:25
Being a dietitian, the Hi PRO, LO CARB goes against anything I have been tought. But.....I have seen results on LO CARB (my husband was on it and many other people I know). I agree with Tina in that being on a Hi Protein diet for long periods of time is stressful on your liver but also on your kidneys. There have been no proof of any liver or kidney damage with peope on the Hi protein diet IF there are no PREVIOUS liver or kidney disfunction.
My own personal opinion is eat a balanced meal including carb, protein and some fat (30%). Focus on eating lots of fruits and vegetables and use whole grain products like whole wheat bread, brown rice and pasta, beans and legumes are also a good source of protein and carb. Exercise at least 30 minutes 3x/week.
I am overweight as a result of being on ADs since 1987 and am only now starting to eat sensibly and exercising regularly (weight going down slowly).If you must go on a HI Protein diet, don't stay on it too long (as Tina says).
Good luck to you!
Jocor
Posted by akrake on July 26, 2001, at 7:13:58
In reply to High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by 16# on July 25, 2001, at 19:58:25
Hi. I've tried sugarbuster before and have lost weight....but gained it back after the birth of my son....my husband has used sugarbusters high protein diet to lose the same 15lbs. over and over again..right now i'm having to deal with his keotosis breath....pretty gross.
4 months after my son was born, i was surfing the web and found The MCDougall Program. I thought it was radical because it was basically a VEGAN diet....lots of whole grains, no cheese, no eggs and no meat. my husband was totally against it because it clashed with his high protein diet...and it was the opposite that we were used to doing (and i had originally pushed him into the high protein diet...imagine!).
it was hard at first....and it took me a year to phase out all meat....when my grandmother diet i reverted....and when i was finally willing to give up the dairy (ice cream) and eggs (not much trouble there)...the weight came off. i eat all the time....but healthy food....hash browns for breakfast...as much fruit as i want for snacks...soy tacos for lunch...five bean chili for dinner....popcorn, granola, nuts... the plan works for me. i'm down 3 sizes and still going.
if you interested let me know and i'll give you the website to check it out.
amie
Posted by Andy123 on July 27, 2001, at 1:07:49
In reply to High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by 16# on July 25, 2001, at 19:58:25
> Does anyone out there have an opinion about whether an Atkins-type diet is superior to a high carb or balanced Zone type diet for controlling or losing weight gained on meds?
Dr.Atkin's made a quick buck telling folks that they could lose weight by eating nothing but cheese, meat, and eggs. There isn't anything credible in his advise; you could restate his philosophy like this: "if you induce a state of terrible pathophysiology, you'll probably loose some weight." He's probably right, as really sick people often loose a bunch of weight. Dr.Sears is a bit delusional also, as he believes he has found a single axis that directs your entire physiology. To sum it up, both of those guys suck.
Drs. Ornish and Pritikin have more reasonable guidelines, in my unqualified opinion.
Posted by Gracie2 on July 27, 2001, at 4:48:31
In reply to Re: High Protein vs. High Carb Diet » 16#, posted by Andy123 on July 27, 2001, at 1:07:49
I've always had excellent results with high-protein diets, and I've tried every diet known to man. Twenty years ago, I lost a great amount of weight on the Scarsdale diet and kept the weight off on the maintenance plan for ten years, which -
in the dieter's world - is greatly successful.
I slipped for all the usual reasons - not being Cher or Goldie Hawn, my looks took a backseat to my kids and aging parents and yadda yadda. My weight rose steadily while I was taking anti-depressants. At the same time, because I had not quit smoking, my GYN took me off the pill and I started Deprol-Medrol injections. My weight ballooned so alarmingly, with no change in my eating or activity patterns, that I quit both the ADs and the shots.
Since then, I have attempted to fight the good fight with my weight. Scarsdale (high-protein, low-fat) is just too restrictive for me these days. The Beverly Hills Diet (all fruit) is a pathetic joke. The Turbo Diet (protein drink and vegetable broth) is nauseating. Slim-Fast didn't work, and I felt starved. I can't take anything with ephedra, because I have high blood pressure
(I tried it anyway, and it made me ill). The Hollywood Diet (fasting) makes you lose water and muscle. A high-carbohydrate diet made me feel like crap, bloated and lethargic.
Atkins actually works for me, but it's a very strange diet...very high-fat. Apparently, the more fat a food substance contains, the less carbohydrates it has. Pure butter, heavy cream, mayonnaise and cheese have almost no carbs. For breakfast, you can fry your eggs in butter, pour thick cream into your coffee and eat all the bacon you want.Snack on pork rinds, Slim Jims, macadamia nuts, cheese sticks, deviled eggs. As long as you eat no sugar, bread, rice, pasta or potatoes, you will lose weight. When I adhere strictly to Atkins - which also means almost no vegetables or fruits - I usually lose a pound a day.
On the other hand, it can't be healthy for you. It's hard on your liver and kidneys. It throws your body into ketosis.
These days I think the best plan is not to determine that you will eat to lose weight, but that you will eat to become healthy and love yourself no matter what your current weight is.
At this point I cannot resist recommending that you check out "Mode" magazine, which encourages women to realize that 6-foot, size-2 women are genetic accidents and more in need of a sandwich than a modeling contract.
Shalom-
Gracie
P.S. to Dr. Bob - thank you for not deleting this thread because it doesn't directly relate to psychiatric medication. It is obvious by now that weight gain is a common side-effect of some ADs and serious in it's demoralizing effect. -G
Posted by Lorraine on July 27, 2001, at 12:02:53
In reply to Re: High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by Gracie2 on July 27, 2001, at 4:48:31
For all those who believe that the low fat diet is rooted in firm science, I think the recent article by Gary Taubes in Science Magazine entitled "the Soft Science of Dietary Fate" should be of interest. My personal view is that we "know" very little about diet and that the little we "know" is likely to be proven false over time. Ultimately, you need to find what works for your body. In my case, low carb is the only approach that works and I do eat a lot of vegetables and some fruit because I am not dieting--this is a way of life for me. I have never understood exactly what nutritional value I am passing up when I do not eat pasta, sugar or refined wheat products :-) I'm sure someone out there will be only to happy to advise me, but the point is find what works for you. And, do read Taubes well researched article.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/291/5513/2536?ijkey=ow64uv8o370SA&keytype=ref&siteid=sci
Posted by super on July 27, 2001, at 14:33:56
In reply to Re: High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by Lorraine on July 27, 2001, at 12:02:53
I'm sorry--but don't you need fiber? I think that's a benefit of foods with carbs. Also, if you are active, you need to eat foods with a lot of calories.
> For all those who believe that the low fat diet is rooted in firm science, I think the recent article by Gary Taubes in Science Magazine entitled "the Soft Science of Dietary Fate" should be of interest. My personal view is that we "know" very little about diet and that the little we "know" is likely to be proven false over time. Ultimately, you need to find what works for your body. In my case, low carb is the only approach that works and I do eat a lot of vegetables and some fruit because I am not dieting--this is a way of life for me. I have never understood exactly what nutritional value I am passing up when I do not eat pasta, sugar or refined wheat products :-) I'm sure someone out there will be only to happy to advise me, but the point is find what works for you. And, do read Taubes well researched article.
>
> http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/291/5513/2536?ijkey=ow64uv8o370SA&keytype=ref&siteid=sci
Posted by Lorraine on July 31, 2001, at 23:14:42
In reply to Re: High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by super on July 27, 2001, at 14:33:56
> > > I'm sorry--but don't you need fiber? I think that's a benefit of foods with carbs.
Of course you need fiber which vegetables and fruit provide quite nicely. My point was that you do not need refined wheat products like pasta and bread to sustain you and they don't provide fiber either. Depending on the diet you choose, you can simply cut out sugar and refined wheat products (and probably potatoes and white rice). But we are all different. What works for me may not work for you.
Posted by super on August 3, 2001, at 12:58:37
In reply to Re: High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by Lorraine on July 31, 2001, at 23:14:42
What are some examples about refined wheat foods? If cereal for example says it is "whole grain" then does that mean it isn't refined? Sorry about my ignorance. I agree with you that white bread and refined sugars should be avoided. However, I think baked potatoes are good for you and pasta, well, how can you live without it? Protein is definitely a good thing though--I'll give you that!
> > > > I'm sorry--but don't you need fiber? I think that's a benefit of foods with carbs.
>
> Of course you need fiber which vegetables and fruit provide quite nicely. My point was that you do not need refined wheat products like pasta and bread to sustain you and they don't provide fiber either. Depending on the diet you choose, you can simply cut out sugar and refined wheat products (and probably potatoes and white rice). But we are all different. What works for me may not work for you.
Posted by Lorraine on August 4, 2001, at 14:51:58
In reply to Re: High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by super on August 3, 2001, at 12:58:37
> What are some examples about refined wheat foods? If cereal for example says it is "whole grain" then does that mean it isn't refined?
I'm fairly strict about it. I look at the carbs also--so it's oatmeal and Special K, although I think some would allow others like cherios and no sugar added cereals.
As to who can live without pasta, it's amazing that I just don't crave it--a ton of cravings disappear when you eliminate some of these foods. Sometimes I'll take a bite of someone elses. Potatoes are hard for a lot of people to give up--I have fauxtatoes (made from califlower and, to me, taste better). But then I never was a potatoe fan. Bread, cookies and pasta were my downfalls. You might think about the zone, which is less restrictive.
Posted by 16# on August 4, 2001, at 23:31:40
In reply to Re: High Protein vs. High Carb Diet, posted by Lorraine on August 4, 2001, at 14:51:58
To bring this back into the realm of meds, I have been taken Topamax and noticed negligible effect on appetite. I just stopped taking Zoloft and now I feel the appetite suppressant effects of Topamax so that I can begin a low glycemic diet. The Zoloft enhanced the carbohydrate cravings of the Neurontin which I also take. Zoloft also did other rotten things like cause me to grind my teeth, make me very agitated, cause me to gain weight, and obliterate my sex drive.
So my point is that for folks who cannot seem to control carb cravings, Topamax may be a good drug to explore.
Posted by chloe on August 5, 2001, at 10:46:46
In reply to Topamax for Carb Cravings, posted by 16# on August 4, 2001, at 23:31:40
> So my point is that for folks who cannot seem to control carb cravings, Topamax may be a good drug to explore.What if I don't want to lose any weight? Do you think Topamax should be contraindicated? What dose did you start to notice the lack of appetite? I find I have lost my appetite on most mood stabilizers I have tried, and don't want it suppressed anymore. Though I am hoping to at some point give Topamax a try for it's mood stability and possible AD effect.
The SSSRI's and other AD's tend to make me hypomanic and very agitated.
TIA.
Posted by Lorraine on August 5, 2001, at 12:02:09
In reply to Topamax for Carb Cravings, posted by 16# on August 4, 2001, at 23:31:40
> > >To bring this back into the realm of meds, I have been taken Topamax and noticed negligible effect on appetite. I just stopped taking Zoloft and now I feel the appetite suppressant effects of Topamax so that I can begin a low glycemic diet.
This is good to know. I take Neurontin and hadn't noticed any carb craving, but then I've either been on stimulants or Parnate with it so maybe that has counterbalanced it.
The Zoloft enhanced the carbohydrate cravings of the Neurontin which I also take. Zoloft also did other rotten things like cause me to grind my teeth, make me very agitated, cause me to gain weight, and obliterate my sex drive.
I hated Zoloft--gave me back aches.
This is the end of the thread.
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