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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 24 to 48 of 51. Go back in thread:
Posted by noa on October 17, 2000, at 6:20:20
In reply to If all these intelligent people were......, posted by Flutterbee on October 17, 2000, at 3:23:35
You might want to read one of Mel Levine's books--either Keeping a Head in School, or All Kinds of Minds.
Posted by noa on October 17, 2000, at 6:21:23
In reply to If all these intelligent people were......, posted by Flutterbee on October 17, 2000, at 3:23:35
Another book to see is Succeeding Against the Odds by Sally L. Smith.
Posted by stjames on October 17, 2000, at 11:45:16
In reply to Yes.....but were they civil??????, posted by CybilDisobedience on October 16, 2000, at 20:39:23
> Anyone care to speculate about how many would have been blocked from Psychobabble for incivility?
>Jmaes here....
Who cares.
Posted by alicefranklin on October 17, 2000, at 12:15:21
In reply to Re: Yes.....but were they civil??????, posted by stjames on October 17, 2000, at 11:45:16
> > Anyone care to speculate about how many would have been blocked from Psychobabble for incivility?
> >
>
> Jmaes here....
>
> Who cares.. I do.
Posted by Cass on October 17, 2000, at 15:18:28
In reply to Re: others, posted by coral on October 15, 2000, at 11:16:02
Alice Walker who wrote The Color Purple said she heard voices that inspired her to write the novel.
Posted by pullmarine on October 17, 2000, at 18:22:06
In reply to If all these intelligent people were......, posted by Flutterbee on October 17, 2000, at 3:23:35
Jean Cocteau also got bored easily. i guess that's why he was a poet, playright, novelist, painter, critic and film maker
Posted by pullmarine on October 17, 2000, at 18:26:32
In reply to Yes.....but were they civil??????, posted by CybilDisobedience on October 16, 2000, at 20:39:23
> Anyone care to speculate about how many would have been blocked from Psychobabble for incivility?
Erik Satie
Mozart
frances Farmer
wiould probably have been blocked>
> CybilDisobedience
> Creativity is not the oddalisque of civility!!!!!
Posted by shar on October 17, 2000, at 19:29:07
In reply to If all these intelligent people were......, posted by Flutterbee on October 17, 2000, at 3:23:35
Flutter,
Albert Einstein also did very poorly in school, especially math.You are not alone. I was a really bright kid, and would finish my work quickly and then visit with the other kids. That was first grade; the solution was to put me in the back corner of the room with my desk facing the wall, and my back to the class.
I know that they had to do something, but it seems like they missed the big picture (it was 1956-57).
I'm surprised something with infinite promise has not caught your attention. Like computers, or building, or something like that.
Shar
Posted by tdaneen on October 17, 2000, at 20:37:33
In reply to Re: If all these intelligent people were......, posted by pullmarine on October 17, 2000, at 18:22:06
Don Osmond... social anxiety disorder
Steve Page... depression, alcohol abuseBTW: Dr. Bob, stjames, and others who know the "odd" situation... could we please, please, please, just leave further arguments about THAT alone??!?!?!
PB is a much nicer place to be when we are not squabbling amongst our psyco-selves :^)
-tdaneen
Posted by stjames on October 18, 2000, at 0:02:22
In reply to Music makers..., posted by tdaneen on October 17, 2000, at 20:37:33
I guess the greater question would be, does creativity
and mental illness go hand in hand ? This really is not a fair
question because the sample group is off. My degree is in music,
and there are lots of very talented people that are not sucessful or known.
Sucess has its own pitfalls. We tend to only think of the well knon people and
not the whole group. Also it is hard to create if you feel ugly inside.I will make the observation that the really good musicians spend
8 hrs a day alone in the practice room. So they are little batty and lack
some social skills, they have been in that room since they were 15.
While not all were batty or whatever, some of the
pianists were the worst in school. They do play all the notes and there is a huge amount of rep for the piano.
8-10 hrs alone with only very difficult Mozart to keep company. I was lucky because singers cannot do more
than 2 hrs a day, perfict for someone with ADD.Tdaneen, could you exlaine what bothers you about this thread ?
If my posts offended it was not intentional. Sometimes I do not
get it, I'm ADD. I do respect your feelings.james
Posted by dari on October 18, 2000, at 7:36:55
In reply to I spent 1st grade with desk facing the wall » Flutterbee, posted by shar on October 17, 2000, at 19:29:07
> Flutter,
> Albert Einstein also did very poorly in school, especially math.
>
> You are not alone. I was a really bright kid, and would finish my work quickly and then visit with the other kids. That was first grade; the solution was to put me in the back corner of the room with my desk facing the wall, and my back to the class.
>
> I know that they had to do something, but it seems like they missed the big picture (it was 1956-57).
>
> I'm surprised something with infinite promise has not caught your attention. Like computers, or building, or something like that.
>
> SharHey Shar:
I spent my third grade year tied to my chair with a jump rope (1972) - so obviously by that point things still had not changed much. It's amazing however, I have a 10 y/o son now and his report card comments look exactly like mine did. I actually put them side by side about a year ago and it truly looked like the same teachers wrote them (impulsive, chatty, moves around the room alot, etc.). And if you think that is bad... a couple of days ago, my son came home and told me that his social studies teacher had an aide wheel him down to the nurse's office making ambulance siren sounds when he complained of a headache. Her attempt at humor fell a little flat on this end. Horrendous, huh?Dari
Posted by Flutterbee on October 18, 2000, at 7:37:24
In reply to I spent 1st grade with desk facing the wall » Flutterbee, posted by shar on October 17, 2000, at 19:29:07
Shar, I was telling my husband the other night how I was feeling, because up until I read these posts did I even realize that I was feeling like this, like I'm so bored with life and I can't seem to find m niche. Well, I do have one or two things that intrest me, one is studying nutrition, how our bodies, and mind function with certain foods or supplements, but when I started to go to school for this my parents told me that I am wasting my time and will never make any money doing it (my father makes a lot of money, so you get where he is coming from). Well, since he was supporting me through college, I kind had no choice not to go that route. I also like to paint ceramics (I know, sounds corny, but I have done some really good stuff). Right now I don't have any supplies (i live in Italy) and I can't really go back to college (my husband is in college plus works full time, plus I have a baby). I do what I can through the internet and my books from when I took a few nutrition classes and worked in a health food store. I know (or at least use to) or can figure out, how many calories in what you are eating, what nutrients are in them and what they effect in your body. I use to be really annoying with it, but I loved it. Sorry to bore you, but thanks for letting me vent, you inspired me!-Flutter
Posted by shar on October 18, 2000, at 8:51:19
In reply to Re: I spent 1st grade with desk facing the wall, posted by Flutterbee on October 18, 2000, at 7:37:24
Flutter,
How ironic! My family did ceramics, and my dad did this whole nativity scene in china paint. It is an heirloom now as it was done when I was 3 or 4 and he died when I was 14. I love ceramics!My mom studied flower arranging and was eventually a florist (there is a lot more to arranging than one might think, esp. studying the Japanese styles). That isn't too expensive an avocation, and you always get to enjoy the flowers (unless they are for someone else).
Nutritionists these days are extremely well received, as you may know. So, any brushing up you can do in Italy (or taking an online course--that's how my sister got some sort of computer certification) will help you when you can get more education (if you want to go that route).
Also being in Italy (I am Italian, really Sicilian) my fater picked up on doing mosaics (cutting the tiles yourself, doing the design, etc.) and he made a big, incredibly heavy! mosaic table. We lived in Germany but I think it was our trip camping thru to Sicily (the homeland) that first piqued his interest.
Good luck to you! Finding something that holds your interest -- no matter what it is! -- will feel so good!
Shar
Posted by tdaneen on October 18, 2000, at 11:22:44
In reply to Re: Music makers..., posted by stjames on October 18, 2000, at 0:02:22
I guess you didn't get the hidden meaning. I was refering to the stuff about oddzilla.
The music ref was just my addition to the psyco's I've known and loved, etc thread...
I didn't mean to offend, I thought you would understand. Please go back and reread the BTW on my post. and check out the psyco-social babble page (cybildiscontent's posts)
Sorry stjames!! Just trying to make light of a situation I thought could get out of hand.
Ok??Again, sorry there was a misunderstanding.
tdaneen
Posted by dove on October 18, 2000, at 14:14:09
In reply to If all these intelligent people were......, posted by Flutterbee on October 17, 2000, at 3:23:35
I just want to say "Thank you Flutterbee!" You really touched me by what you shared. I am in that same place. My parents always said I'm a jack-of-all-trades, but a master of none. And that's the truth. I'm also a stay-at-home mom, switched my major more than three times before finally giving up. I really truly appreciate your openess and just want to encourage you not to feel negative due to your multiple interests. Some people (many people) have this one-way ticket to their dreams/aspirations/interests, while some of us take every side-road we come across. I envy those who have that drive to immerse themselves in something 100%, I wish I could be dedicated to something so narrowly and completely, but it's not gonna happen any time soon :-)
Thank you again!
dove
Posted by stjames on October 18, 2000, at 14:40:21
In reply to I spent 1st grade w/ desk facing the wall to Shar, posted by dari on October 18, 2000, at 7:36:55
my first grade teacher had 3 rows in the class, called smart, average, and dumb. I was in the dumb row till my parents took me from school and threatened to sue unless several things happened, amoung them that the teacher retired.
james
Posted by stjames on October 18, 2000, at 14:48:33
In reply to Re: Yes.....but were they civil??????. James, posted by alicefranklin on October 17, 2000, at 12:15:21
> > > Anyone care to speculate about how many would have been blocked from Psychobabble for incivility?
> > >
> >
> > Jmaes here....
> >
> > Who cares.
>
> . I do.james here....
As this is Bob's list and we have to accept the conditions of this list, which is a free and wonderful resourse. All lists have to be proactive
in dealing with those who cannot follow the rules.
10 yrs on the internet have shown me what happens
where things are unmodderated. They become like the current news groups; a mess.I have no control over people who cannot follow the rules and Bob is the one who decides (in my opinion, correctly) to ban people so I do not see the point in discussing what is out of my hands.
jmaes
Posted by stjames on October 18, 2000, at 14:58:43
In reply to Re: Music makers... » stjames, posted by tdaneen on October 18, 2000, at 11:22:44
> I guess you didn't get the hidden meaning. I was refering to the stuff about oddzilla.
>
james here....I was not speaking of Oddzilla, just that it is out of my hands, the banning thing, so I don't waste time on this issue. I also to assert the da fact right to express my feelings, so if you don't like them, please find another way to indicate this instead of saying ~ cut it out.
There is nothing wrong with saying "James I disagree with you because of X, Y or Z".james
Posted by tdaneen on October 18, 2000, at 16:54:56
In reply to Re: Music makers..., posted by stjames on October 18, 2000, at 14:58:43
I was not disagreeing with you.
The only opinion I was sharing was that of someone who didn't want to see another upheavel in the PB board. I didn't think you were in the wrong. The only reason I included your name was I thought you knew what had happened before with ODD, and how heated everything got. The reason PB was divided and stuff. I was just trying to be proactive. Stopping something before it started.
There was NOTHING negative directed toward you.
Believe me, I'm sorry I even posted it.
Posted by BobWhite on October 18, 2000, at 21:37:21
In reply to Re: please be supportive » CybilDisobedience, posted by Dr. Bob on October 17, 2000, at 0:20:57
After watching this site for a while, I still wonder if this is the kind of place where I will be comfortable participating. This thread seems to raise some doubts in my mind, but its sort of my style to jump in and ask rather than hang back and wonder.
A bit about me - I have visited counselors, (therapists they usually to call them now) off and on since my parents made me go. I thought my parents sent me because they didn’t like the way I was turning out, but that was so long ago it hardly matters.
For the most part, I am prepared to do my time in this world and move on. I am quite unhappy with many of the things I see here in this place and time, which sort of is why I am interested in this thread. I know that I and my many likeminded friends around the world won't change everything to be the way we want it, or even make things much better, but if we ignore our concerns, and ignore the suffering and injustice, things could get much worse for my children and their children. The counselor I have visited most recently and I have this sort of disagreement, but I still go for a few visits every few months because it provides a setting where I can talk about things like alienation and sadness without bringing people down.
Anyway, I’m not sure this board is meant to support people who embrace their feelings of sadness and alienation. I think it is more to support people who want to repress or somehow rid themselves of those feelings. That’s all good, but here’s kind of where I’m at with this counselor. She says I concern myself too much with other people’s affairs. Okay, she doesn’t say it, she just turns conversation around so she can ask if I think maybe I do, or if maybe I think I would feel better if I didn’t.
But me, I think it is better to pay attention to other people’s concerns, even if it leaves me wanting. I was wanting anyway, so what’s the difference. On those locus of control tests, even though I tend to score in the middle of the internal locus side of the scale (72%-80% internal) she says I should have more confidence. If I scored 100% internal, it seems I would be pathologically solipsist. I can’t and don’t want to control the world. I just want to do my part. It often seems to me people who say they are in control of their lives really are going along with a crowd and have very little control of the direction of the crowd. Democracy means giving up some of your own control, plus, things often happen out of the blue, like a piano falls off a winch and crushes passersby on the sidewalk and such crazy stuff.
This is hardly my main issue, but this site is an example. I care if historic figures who had a history of distress would be banned from this discussion. To me, the person who raised that question was being supportive of me, because I know my ideas are unpopular in many circles. If Einstein was not welcome here, maybe I am not either. I hardly can support things I don’t believe in. I thought our great society was about the freedom to support divergent views and to not support things we don’t believe in.
I was shocked at how arbitrarily the moderator chastened the person who asked that question. The moderators reply seemed rude in cold-cock sort of way - It seemed coldly arrogant to the point of abusiveness and certainly un-supportive. And it seems the latest trend is for the moderator to be even more arbitrary, less concerned about who is hurt in his effort to maintain the kind of atmosphere that will make him comfortable.
I might do better to only share the way I felt about the moderator's intervention, but the one reply that said “who cares” really hurt me to the bone. It was like reading “nobody cares about you, Robert Dwayne White.”
Disingenuous friendship really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe all I’m asking for is the same thing I get when I walk into a local Rotary meeting – cold stares and a steady reminder that I am not a member of this social set. I am sort of asking if its okay to chat here every now and then even though I am one of the vast minority of people who believe sadness is a okay emotion, even if last a life time. For me, any other emotion would feel disrespectful of all the suffering and dying and need in our world. From what I have seen, if I talk about that here, I will end up being the root of a long thread that will likely lead to me being chastised if I try to offer further explanation.
So, tell me to go away, that you don’t like me, that you hate me, that I am unredeemable, that people with my values should be locked away so they don’t pollute those who seem to share some idea about what is civility. Tell me that, up front, so maybe I can spare myself being publicly humiliated here by an authority figure with a medical license. The header on this page makes this discussion seem so open, but from what I’ve observed, this is not a place where people with minority view points can find support, or where it is safe to support diverse points of view.
>The idea here is to provide support. Repeated posting for other purposes will also result in being blocked.
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 18, 2000, at 23:05:33
In reply to Re: please be supportive, posted by BobWhite on October 18, 2000, at 21:37:21
> I was shocked at how arbitrarily the moderator chastened the person who asked that question. The moderators reply seemed rude in cold-cock sort of way - It seemed coldly arrogant to the point of abusiveness and certainly un-supportive. And it seems the latest trend is for the moderator to be even more arbitrary, less concerned about who is hurt in his effort to maintain the kind of atmosphere that will make him comfortable.
First, I'm sorry to see this thread getting side-tracked -- and the atmosphere getting disrupted. Any more posts about how this board is run should go in a new thread. This is a policy I should've thought of a long time ago!
Second, I consider accusations of arrogance and abusiveness uncivil, so I'm going to block this "handle".
> I am sort of asking if its okay to chat here every now and then...
Being blocked means it is *not* OK for you to chat here.
> So, tell me to go away, that you don’t like me, that you hate me, that I am unredeemable, that people with my values should be locked away so they don’t pollute those who seem to share some idea about what is civility. Tell me that, up front, so maybe I can spare myself being publicly humiliated here by an authority figure with a medical license.
Being blocked means you are to stay away. It doesn't mean I hate you and isn't intended to humiliate you. Sorry, but this board just can't accommodate everyone.
Bob
Posted by stjames on October 19, 2000, at 4:45:54
In reply to Re: Music makers..., posted by tdaneen on October 18, 2000, at 16:54:56
>
> Believe me, I'm sorry I even posted it.James here....
Am I am sorry I got into it too. As I look back
this tread it has been everywhere and I did not
help in this respect.
james
Posted by noa on October 19, 2000, at 16:42:39
In reply to Re: I spent 1st grade with desk facing the wall, posted by Flutterbee on October 18, 2000, at 7:37:24
I just thought of another book to recommend to you, Flutter. It is "In the Mind's Eye" by Thomas West, who by way of dealing with his son's school problems, discovered his own ADD/LD issues. He tells the stories of great visual thinkers like Einstein who had awful early school experiences. His thesis is that for the past couple thousand years, society's idea of what "smart" is has been tied to the ability to read and write and use language proficiently, because that has been the primary mode of working with information, and that language highlights sequential abilities. On the other hand, he believes we are at the beginning of a new age, when sequential language-based knowledge has less and less dominance, due to computer and other technologies, where visual, systems-based, extemporaneous knowledge and skills are needed. He also thinks a lot of people who have school problems due to ADD or LD might have a capacity for the more visual/systems/simultaneous way of thinking and can do things that are hard for people who fall into the more traditional sense of "smart".
Posted by noa on October 19, 2000, at 16:49:26
In reply to Re: If all these intelligent people were... » Flutterbee, posted by dove on October 18, 2000, at 14:14:09
>Some people (many people) have this one-way ticket to their dreams/aspirations/interests, while some of us take every side-road we come across
Dove, this is so similar to an idea I have had for a long time about "Detours". When I was a kid, I really believed you had to have a solid plan for the rest of your life. And I didn't. I tried to, but couldn't. I, too, switched majors three times in college and eked out a major somehow based on what I had the most courses in (it took an extra summer to finish). In the end, after college, I went in a whole different direction from any of the majors I had toyed with, anyway.
I really do believe there is no one right way to go, and sometimes allowing yourself to meander a bit helps you to discover good things.
Posted by noa on October 19, 2000, at 16:50:44
In reply to Re: I spent 1st grade w/ desk facing the wall to Shar, posted by stjames on October 18, 2000, at 14:40:21
This has the makings of a good thread all to itself--the abuses suffered at the hands of teachers. It is just amazing.
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