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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shellie on September 18, 2000, at 13:25:26
My pdoc would like to put me on serequel before we go the parnate route. She will not consider ampisulpride. Why is ampisulpride not on the U.S. market? Why is it thought to be more favorable on this board than the other neuroleptics? I am petrified of serequel; I had a horrible reaction to risperal. Does ampisulpride have the same risk of the other neuroleptics--tardive dyskhesia, etc? I have an appointment in two weeks with a new pdoc who will consider European meds, if I can get by without falling apart maybe I should wait. Shellie
Posted by JohnL on September 19, 2000, at 3:58:39
In reply to Ampisulpride vs. American Neuroleptics -- HELP, posted by shellie on September 18, 2000, at 13:25:26
> My pdoc would like to put me on serequel before we go the parnate route. She will not consider ampisulpride. Why is ampisulpride not on the U.S. market? Why is it thought to be more favorable on this board than the other neuroleptics? I am petrified of serequel; I had a horrible reaction to risperal. Does ampisulpride have the same risk of the other neuroleptics--tardive dyskhesia, etc? I have an appointment in two weeks with a new pdoc who will consider European meds, if I can get by without falling apart maybe I should wait. Shellie
Shellie,
I am one of those at this board that favors Amisulpride over other antipsychotics for treating depression. The reason is because it only affects several dopamine receptors and has no effect on other receptors. It is very targeted. It works for a wide variety of symptoms and has few, if any, side effects in a majority of users. It's not at all like the other APs. Other APs also hit serotonin, NE, alpha, histimine, and other receptors...just to name a few. Though that could be involved in their therapeutic effect, it also creates a host of side effects and unusual reactions. Amisulpride isn't like that.
Amisulpride does share the same risks as other neuroleptics. However, the risks are much lower. The lowered risks usually only occur at the higher doses not used for treating depression. In clinical trials Amisulpride has shown a much lower incidence and severity of side effects and risks compared to the other APs.If you can hang in there for two weeks, it might be worth trying Amisulpride. Keep in mind though that it will be at least another 2 weeks, maybe as much as 4, before you receive delivery of Amisulpride. In the meantime, post a message to AndrewB. He can supply you with all the research on Amisulpride so you can review it with your doc. And in the meantime, SAMe might be worth a shot. I've found it works well enough and fast enough to be kind of like a stepping stone or a crutch, to help me through those particularly rough spots.
It is a very expensive option to enter a drug into the FDA approval process. I suspect that is why it is not available in the USA. If I'm not mistaken, I think I heard a rumor a couple weeks ago that Amisulpride is being considered for FDA approval. But even if that happens, it will take years. In the meantime, you should at least be aware that is has been tested clinically and approved in quite a few other countries. It is an outstanding legitimate medication in my opinion, and a real crime it isn't available in the USA.
What is the character of your depression? For example, is it mixed anxiety+depression? Or is it anhedonic, apathetic, no interest in anything kind of depression? How would you describe your depression? Suicidal thoughts? Crying spells? I'm just trying to understand what kind of depression are you dealing with?
John
Posted by Seamus2 on September 19, 2000, at 9:13:21
In reply to Re: Ampisulpride vs. American Neuroleptics -- HELP, posted by JohnL on September 19, 2000, at 3:58:39
> > f you can hang in there for two weeks, it might be worth trying Amisulpride. ....
> John
>
How long does Amisulpride need to kick in? How long until maximum effectiveness is reached? Maybe AndrewB knows.I'd like to give it a spin but don't want to stop the Parnate.
Seamus
Posted by shellie on September 19, 2000, at 11:29:14
In reply to Re: Ampisulpride vs. American Neuroleptics -- HELP, posted by JohnL on September 19, 2000, at 3:58:39
> What is the character of your depression? For example, is it mixed anxiety+depression? Or is it anhedonic, apathetic, no interest in anything kind of depression? How would you describe your depression? Suicidal thoughts? Crying spells? I'm just trying to understand what kind of depression are you dealing with?
> John>
John, thanks for your interest and your information. And I have tried sam-e (under the phone supervision of Dr. Brown , who wrote THE book on sam-e--Stop Depression Now.) Unfortuntely even up to 1600mg, it didn't work for me.Well, here's more about my depression than you will probably want to know!
I am dealing with what feels to be mainly an endrogeous depression that sits in my chest, varies from actually horrible pain, to more of a withdrawal. While nardil was working, depressions only lasted a day or so at a time,and didn't suppress enjoyment, although I tired easily. I do have suicidal thoughts because I don't know if something besides the nardil will work. I don't have social anxiety and I am able to totally lose the depression when I'm working with someone. (I'm a portrait photographer), but not during the other aspects of my business. I have a background of abuse and I think the depression got created in my body at a very early age. Most of my childhood is blocked out. I suppose I have the whole syndrome of PTSD, although anxiety usually translates right away into dissociation for me. I have had more episodes of my life and emotions feeling out of control since January. I don't cry very much unless I am premenstral. When the nardil was working, I loved going to movies, shopping, working in my garden, doing out to dinner, etc. Now I really do feel like I don't care much what I do, as long as I get my work done--I don't want to screw up my business. I resent that I have to work when I'm so depressed and yet I think I would totally slip away if I didn't have a business and responsibility. I am frustrated because I thought I was done with all this shit and was working on creating more and more in my life before the nardil pooped out. THE END (Sorry it's so long).
John, I assume you're still doing really well. I got a little lost though; are you now taking amisulpride, adrafinil and sam-e?
Shellie
Posted by shellie on September 20, 2000, at 10:48:57
In reply to Re: Ampisulpride vs. American Neuroleptics -- HELP » JohnL, posted by shellie on September 19, 2000, at 11:29:14
John L. I did order amisulpride from Italy, although I'm still hoping someone might sell me some sooner. What I am curious about is how you prevent yourself from being worried about td. It really scares me. I did read last night studies about taking vitamins to prevent td: vitamin E was listed as potentially the most effective. Have you tried any measure to lower the odds? Shellie
Posted by shellie on September 20, 2000, at 10:59:17
In reply to Re: Amisulpride and TD --John L., posted by shellie on September 20, 2000, at 10:49:01
Could there be any way to immediately cancel a message after you've confirmed it, if you pushed your mouse twice by mistake. Not something that could wipe out old messages, just for immediate mistakes? This is not a huge problem, obviously, but I seem to be a culprit of double clicking.
Shellie
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 20, 2000, at 13:17:46
In reply to Re:Repeat messages, Dr. Bob and apologies to all, posted by shellie on September 20, 2000, at 10:59:17
> Could there be any way to immediately cancel a message after you've confirmed it, if you pushed your mouse twice by mistake. Not something that could wipe out old messages, just for immediate mistakes? This is not a huge problem, obviously, but I seem to be a culprit of double clicking.
Repeat messages have been an issue for a long time, and I haven't come up with a good way to deal with them. What if the person didn't realize what they did right away?
Bob
Posted by JohnL on September 22, 2000, at 4:35:34
In reply to Re: Ampisulpride vs. American Neuroleptics -- HELP » JohnL, posted by shellie on September 19, 2000, at 11:29:14
> John, I assume you're still doing really well. I got a little lost though; are you now taking amisulpride, adrafinil and sam-e?
>
> ShellieShellie,
Thank you for sharing your story. I must admit it breaks my heart. I can sure relate. Especially to the job part. I know at many times in my life my job was the only thing that kept me attached to the world. The only thing that provided some connection from one hour to the next.I'm doing quite well. In my history I've tried just about everything except Nardil. After a while I became convinced that merely increasing neurotransmitter levels was not the way to go for me. I mean, that method worked, but only for very short times. Like you. My gut instinct told me there was something else going on. Whatever it was, increasing neuro levels set into motion some sort of chain reaction that effected the real problem via some indirect route. But because it was indirect, that was probably why it never worked all that well. So I began trying other medications that do different things other than merely increasing neurotransmitters. That led me to where I am now with 25mg (extrememly low dose) Amisulpride + 100mg Provigil (also very low) and yet nearly 100% recovery. How come whopping doses of just about anything else couldn't work this well? I think it's obvious that my current meds are hitting a bullseye on the target.
There are three medications that have provided real promise for me. Amisulpride, Adrafinil, and Provigil. I have found the best of all is Amisulpride+Provigil, second best is Amisulpride+Adrafinil, third best is Amisulpride or Provigil alone, and 4th best is Adrafinil alone. In any case, within these three medications lies incredible therapy not found in any other medications on the face of the earth. For me.
The actions and chemistries of these three meds are so different and unique from all others. That's why when someone is having problems with all of the conventional medications, I point them in the direction of these other medications instead. I mean, simple logic tells me that if the regular stuff isn't working, might as well try something unique and different. You certainly have nothing to lose, and the potential for everything to gain. Since all the medications you've tried have obviously not been on target at correcting the real underlying chemical/molecular problem, the chances of these other medications working have greatly increased. Simply by the odds of elimination if nothing else.
In your shoes I would do whatever it takes to acquire some Amisulpride and some Provigil, and then start experimenting with them. But that's just me. I could be all wrong. But my gut instincts are usually correct. My gut instinct is telling me that you too could find these other medications will work where all others failed. They are just so unique and they cover all the bases that were missed by everything else.
John
This is the end of the thread.
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