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Posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 13:33:53
In reply to melatonin, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 13:05:00
I haven't tried melatonin and that's why I asked you. You seem to have more knowledge of the natural alternatives, effective or otherwise, and I thought you might have an idea if it worked or not. Believe it or not, I have had great success with warm milk with nutmeg and cardamom pods. I know it sounds cliche but it's true. I'm not kidding...It's an ayurvedic cure for sleeplessness that I find helpful. It sure doesn't work everytime but it's a good one when I'm stressed.
> I haven't tried it---tried Valerian...it worked for a few nights, but then stopped. What is with that?
Posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
In reply to Re: melatoninCari, posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 13:33:53
OK I say this hoping that nobody will attack me for it, but has anyone tried using pot to relieve anxiety??? I've never used other drugs & never will, I don't even drink. I have a college degree and work at stable, full time job. I've found pot to be extremely effective in fighting off acute anxiety and used to use it do induce sleep nightly before I began taking Remeron (which also induces sleep so I don't need the pot anymore for that).
Posted by KarenB on June 8, 2000, at 15:33:15
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
Cari,
This is why they say, "Your mileage may vary..."
A long, long time ago, when I smoked pot, it CAUSED anxiety in me. I mean, EXTREME ANXIETY. It is the very last thing I'd do if I wanted to relax. It had exactly the opposite effect on my husband, however, but neither of us have smoked in years.
Strangely enough, I have been taking the "dreaded" Buspar (10 mg, 3x a day) for about five weeks and I have no side effects whatsoever. At first, I thought it was a placebo. Now, I actually think it's working.
There are many different chemical reasons why you may suffer depression or anxiety, including Noa's favorite, your THYROID. No one drug works for everyone and a drug is not inherently "bad" because it doesn't work for you. If that thinking were true, I would personally try to put a complete ban on both Prozac and Serzone - I would rather be tortured than take either of them again.
Karen
Posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:16:06
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
I have been told this by alot of people...but am a chicken about trying! When I quit smoking many years ago, it was because of *paranoid* pot reactions...but who knows maybe now it would be different...with just a little bit...
I do have some Melatonin somewhere...maybe i will try that...
Posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:18:34
In reply to Re: Buspar/natural remedy-Cari, posted by KarenB on June 8, 2000, at 15:33:15
It's so weird because my racing heart and anxiety seems to come in groups of days, then goes for a week or two, then is back...?
Posted by Kath on June 8, 2000, at 17:24:43
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
Hi Cari - Just a couple of non-attacking comments about pot. My 16-yr old is in a treatment program due to using it pretty well daily for about a year & a half - often numerous times daily. I've been finding out more about it and two things that I didn't know are: 1) It is a depressant. 2) It has a half-life of 48 hours. That means that 48 hours after one has smoked it, half of the active ingredient is still in one's bloodstream. I recently read a list of all the physiological effects of smoking pot & was surprised at how many areas in the body it affects, including the immune system. It's also WAY stronger than in my teen days (I'm 53). If you're considering it, you might want to look into the effects it has on the body, and keep in mind that one can become dependent on it - my son sure has.
Best of luck & take care.
Kath.
> OK I say this hoping that nobody will attack me for it, but has anyone tried using pot to relieve anxiety??? I've never used other drugs & never will, I don't even drink. I have a college degree and work at stable, full time job. I've found pot to be extremely effective in fighting off acute anxiety and used to use it do induce sleep nightly before I began taking Remeron (which also induces sleep so I don't need the pot anymore for that).
Posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 18:01:13
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial » Cari, posted by Kath on June 8, 2000, at 17:24:43
Thanks for the info Kath, I will consider that. I wish there were more current, in depth studies of the use of pot that weren't government biased. I know THC contains somewhere in the ballpark of 256 chemicals. I just wish they could identify and isolate each one, because at least one of them in there must help with anxiety... I have to admit it does scare me that no one really knows for sure exactly the long term effects of pot use. I know of people who have been smoking it for 30 years and are dignified professional business people whom no one would guess come home and take a bong hit every night. Yet on the other hand there are people like your 16 year old who obviously should not be smoking it. Why the difference in tolderance, addictive tendencies and benefits/negative repercussions???? I guess that is the big mystery, the same one that lurks behind our quest of the perfect med combo for each of us...
Posted by Sara T on June 8, 2000, at 19:45:07
In reply to melatonin, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 13:05:00
> I haven't tried it---tried Valerian...it worked for a few nights, but then stopped. What is with that?
If you try melatonin, make sure the brand you get is using a pharmaceutical grade melatonin. I have used both and the pharmaceutical grade is much stronger I think. Since herbal remedies are not regulated, you really do't know what youu're getting from dose to dose. You have to be careful to read the labels and look for levels of standardization. There are alot more books and info out there on the right things to look for and the pharmacology of herbs as well as their effectiveness.
Milk, bananas and some other foods that contain Tryptophan reduce anxiety. That's why the warm milk before bedtime works so well.
Sara T.
Posted by Kath on June 11, 2000, at 13:15:32
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 18:01:13
Hi Cari - you're welcome. You're right about people being different. My brother-in-law, who is in his 50's has smoked pot daily since he was a teen & is a very productive member of society; has a job; a home; a happy family life. And just yesterday I heard of a woman who my friend knows. Ten years ago she was intelligent, witty, interested in life, etc. She's been smoking pot daily for that duration & is now bored, unmotivated, doesn't talk much, etc. Could be the pot, could be something else.
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide is best for you.
Kath
> Thanks for the info Kath, I will consider that. I wish there were more current, in depth studies of the use of pot that weren't government biased. I know THC contains somewhere in the ballpark of 256 chemicals. I just wish they could identify and isolate each one, because at least one of them in there must help with anxiety... I have to admit it does scare me that no one really knows for sure exactly the long term effects of pot use. I know of people who have been smoking it for 30 years and are dignified professional business people whom no one would guess come home and take a bong hit every night. Yet on the other hand there are people like your 16 year old who obviously should not be smoking it. Why the difference in tolderance, addictive tendencies and benefits/negative repercussions???? I guess that is the big mystery, the same one that lurks behind our quest of the perfect med combo for each of us...
Posted by kady on June 13, 2000, at 7:52:28
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial » Cari, posted by Kath on June 11, 2000, at 13:15:32
Trust me on this. I know far more "professionals" who go home to their seemingly "perfect" families at night and toke up. They may appear productive to you or part of a happy family, but I have witnessed first hand the "smokescreen".
Stay away from it, these people I know have made things other than family and friends their priority. They have made their drug their priority and then claim to be able to function perfectly or at least as well as their neighbor. They isolate everyone and the things that go on behind closed doors would actually show their true colors.To be perfectly blunt, people start drinking for the same reason, anxiety release. You may feel less anxious but you will pay emotionally in other ways eventually. Don't kid yourself.
Posted by KarenB on June 13, 2000, at 9:12:45
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by kady on June 13, 2000, at 7:52:28
> Trust me on this. I know far more "professionals" who go home to their seemingly "perfect" families at night and toke up. They may appear productive to you or part of a happy family, but I have witnessed first hand the "smokescreen".
> Stay away from it, these people I know have made things other than family and friends their priority. They have made their drug their priority and then claim to be able to function perfectly or at least as well as their neighbor. They isolate everyone and the things that go on behind closed doors would actually show their true colors.To be perfectly blunt, people start drinking for the same reason, anxiety release. You may feel less anxious but you will pay emotionally in other ways eventually. Don't kid yourself.
Well said, kady. Everyone looks better from a distance. It's the way we behave with those closest and what we consider to be of value, that count.I know some guys like this, too. Their wives are not all that "happy" and it is a poor message on coping that they are demonstrating to their children.
ADs and anxiety meds are meant to lift us from imbalance to a "good normal," not have us walking around stoned.
Karen
Posted by danf on June 15, 2000, at 16:34:15
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
This is not an attack !
I would say you are playing with a fire that may consume you.
Pot is well known to induce paranoia & anxiety. It is not a function of any contaminant. It is foolish to mix psychoactive drugs & pot.
How to you think you will ever find a med treatment regimen that works if you add in POT ?
If YOUR current drug regimen does not work, then it needs to be modified. Adding POT on your own is just likely to cause meds that may help you to not work.
I feel for you & the pain you carry, which must be immense !
Posted by Andrea Gomez on June 16, 2000, at 15:43:42
In reply to Re: BuSpar, posted by Walter on June 5, 2000, at 10:19:37
> Took buspar 10 mg daily for 1 yr. Ineffective at that dosage level. When taken with a lot of caffeine, it destroyed my sex drive . I threw the BUSPAR away. will try stress relieve exercises etc. You need to take at least 20 to 30mg daily to be of any use.
I am taking Buspar right now with a combination of Zoloft. I am on 10mg. I feel this is going to do nothing for me. I have been feeling the effects of hypomania. Not only now, but all my life. Is this combination good or am I kidding myself. She is going to raise the dose on the Buspar next month. She gave me a low dose because the drug made me so sluggish the first few days.
Posted by Andrea Gomez on June 16, 2000, at 16:05:23
In reply to Anxiety, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:18:34
> It's so weird because my racing heart and anxiety seems to come in groups of days, then goes for a week or two, then is back...?
i have the same effects. i feel so hyped up an happy. a few days later i blow up. i become so afraid of myself and others finding out the "real" me.
Posted by Evelyn on June 17, 2000, at 8:26:05
In reply to Re: Anxiety, posted by Andrea Gomez on June 16, 2000, at 16:05:31
It's so sad how we are all suffering with this anxiety. I am now home out on disability because of it. Buspar was a horrible drug for me too because of my head also feeling like a "coffee percolator".
I would rather try natural remedies such as nature sunshines "nutri-calm", chamomile tea, kava kava, exercise such as roller blading, weight lifting, dancing. They are helping somewhat. But I want this anxiety to go away permantly. I've read that it takes a long time for the anxiety disease to develop, and it will take time for it to heal.
I pray to God to help us all, and to heal us. We just want to be normal, and live our lives with happiness. I think we all deserve to be healthy, happy, peaceful and calm.
Posted by crazy on August 26, 2000, at 11:38:24
In reply to Re: Anxiety, posted by Evelyn on June 17, 2000, at 8:26:05
> It's so sad how we are all suffering with this anxiety. I am now home out on disability because of it. Buspar was a horrible drug for me too because of my head also feeling like a "coffee percolator".
>
> I would rather try natural remedies such as nature sunshines "nutri-calm", chamomile tea, kava kava, exercise such as roller blading, weight lifting, dancing. They are helping somewhat. But I want this anxiety to go away permantly. I've read that it takes a long time for the anxiety disease to develop, and it will take time for it to heal.
>
> I pray to God to help us all, and to heal us. We just want to be normal, and live our lives with happiness. I think we all deserve to be healthy, happy, peaceful and calm.I have had one hell of a year this year and I was told I had a nervous breakdown in June of this year (2000). I was put on Remeron, but I seemed to be irritated easily and put on weight. I am now starting Serzone and taking Xanax for the anxiety. Sometimes I feel incompacitated and I feel that my family is paying for it. I just don't know what to do. The anxiety is driving me crazy. I've never had any problems like this before and I don't know what to do. I do pray for help, but it just seems like the minutes don't pass fast enough.
Posted by Nibor on August 26, 2000, at 13:32:51
In reply to Re: Anxiety, posted by crazy on August 26, 2000, at 11:38:24
What has helped me for anxiety is paxil. I take 20 mg. every morning; I have heard it keeps people awake when taken late in the day. I never have problems falling asleep (well, maybe once in a great while when I get overtired).
There are the usual side effects in the libido area, and I do have more vivid, action-oriented dreams, but I think that's about it.
Have you ever taken paxil? Also, and very important, do you have a therapist you like?
Take care of yourself.
Nibor> I have had one hell of a year this year and I was told I had a nervous breakdown in June of this year (2000). I was put on Remeron, but I seemed to be irritated easily and put on weight. I am now starting Serzone and taking Xanax for the anxiety. Sometimes I feel incompacitated and I feel that my family is paying for it. I just don't know what to do. The anxiety is driving me crazy. I've never had any problems like this before and I don't know what to do. I do pray for help, but it just seems like the minutes don't pass fast enough.
Posted by crazy on August 29, 2000, at 10:10:37
In reply to Re: Anxiety » crazy, posted by Nibor on August 26, 2000, at 13:32:51
Nibor
Thanks for your suggestions. I had a nervous breakdown in June and my doctor told me not to look for a therapist until my medication was under control. I am still working on that part. I am only on 100 mg/day, so I have a ways to go yet. The anxiety is always sitting in my stomach just waiting for something to stir it up. The Xanax is addicting, so I try not to take it unless I absolutely need it. As far as Paxil goes, my mom is on it and doesn't like it and I have heard many bad things about withdrawal from Paxil. I would just prefer to not take anything at all. I don't know what to do. I better give Serzone a try though. I also read something about Remeron. It said that if you increase the done from 30 mg to 45 mg it will diminish the appetite. I could always try that to. Thank you. >> What has helped me for anxiety is paxil. I take 20 mg. every morning; I have heard it keeps people awake when taken late in the day. I never have problems falling asleep (well, maybe once in a great while when I get overtired).
> There are the usual side effects in the libido area, and I do have more vivid, action-oriented dreams, but I think that's about it.
> Have you ever taken paxil? Also, and very important, do you have a therapist you like?
> Take care of yourself.
> Nibor
>
> > I have had one hell of a year this year and I was told I had a nervous breakdown in June of this year (2000). I was put on Remeron, but I seemed to be irritated easily and put on weight. I am now starting Serzone and taking Xanax for the anxiety. Sometimes I feel incompacitated and I feel that my family is paying for it. I just don't know what to do. The anxiety is driving me crazy. I've never had any problems like this before and I don't know what to do. I do pray for help, but it just seems like the minutes don't pass fast enough.
Posted by fanderson on September 10, 2000, at 12:20:19
In reply to Pot and melatonin, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:16:06
> I have been told this by alot of people...but am a chicken about trying! When I quit smoking many years ago, it was because of *paranoid* pot reactions...but who knows maybe now it would be different...with just a little bit...
>
Hi,
Smoking pot is not good for folks like me who have anxiety disorders. It made me paranoid also, so I would combine it with alcohol. You can probably guess how that worked out after several years. I,m OK now, but there are legal drugs that do a better job.
Posted by pullmarine on September 24, 2000, at 3:00:23
In reply to Re: Pot and melatonin, posted by fanderson on September 10, 2000, at 12:20:19
Pot and other hallucinogenics, but also strong stimulants are really dangerous to people who have tendencies for depression or anxiety or psychosis. I'm speaking from experience, stay away from that stuff.
Posted by SteveL on September 27, 2000, at 17:43:28
In reply to Re: Pot and melatonin, posted by pullmarine on September 24, 2000, at 3:00:23
I wandered into this thread looking for some info on Remeron and found the comments on cannabis fascinating. In my experience and observation it is one of the most complex drugs in wide use and cannot be simply characterized. Some of the most honorable and psychologically healthy folks I've known use it occasionally to regularly and I've also seen it ill-used by more than a few others. Its legal status clouds the issue tremendously, as well as the wide variability of both potency and qualitative effects. The availability of better potency and quality of "buds" is considered by most to be a definite advantage, as the desired effect can be archived with less smoke(better for the lungs, etc.).
I cannot argue with anyone's personal bad experiences or downplay the possible complications in conjunction with "doctor approved" meds, but I find the unqualified condemnatory tone and outright snideness of some of the posts all too common. We don't usually express this kind of contempt across the board towards all drinkers of alcohol, even though its profound dangers are widely recognized.
In my observation, as well as from comments of many people over the years(30), cannabis is generally not useful in cases of severe anxiety. It might be classified in part as a "minor psychedelic" and is probably best avoided by most folks with serious mental illnesses, especially those not already personally familiar with its effects.
Its most successful medical uses generally involve its salutary effects on nausea, appetite, physical pain and the associated situational, "ordinary" unhappiness. Despite its legal risks and problems with doctor's attitudes it's been a godsend for many people with cancer and other painfully debilitating diseases, and I find the common objection that they "just want to get high" curious when they are often freely prescribed narcotics and other powerful and dangerous psychoactive pharmaceuticals. Isn't feeling and getting better the whole point???
My personal experience in this area proved cannabis very useful in dealing with severe pain. It allowed me to use significantly lower doses of narcotics(30 to 70% less) while virtually eliminating the nausea and general "ickiness" and giving me the appetite and enjoyment to eat enough to maintain my weight and be more active. This was no small blessing and more effective across the board than anything the many doctors (some quite good) I saw could give me.
Thanks for all your posts, I wish you all good luck in finding your best help.
Posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 5:09:28
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by SteveL on September 27, 2000, at 17:43:28
> I don't deny that cannabis has valid medical uses, but so does opium (used both in cough sirup and in various pain killers). I've known many pot smokers, and long term chronic use leads to psychosis (as do many other substances, icluding alcohol and anxiolitics). Futhermore, and as you mentioned, there are many types of weed, with different potencies, moany of wich can no longer be considered as a soft drug, but as a hallucinogenic.
Posted by stjames on September 28, 2000, at 11:09:17
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 5:09:28
Futhermore, and as you mentioned, there are many types of weed, with different potencies, moany of wich can no longer be considered as a soft drug, but as a hallucinogenic.
james here.....
Hallucinogenic, not really. It is hard to classify pot, chemically it looks somewhat
like a psychedelic and as it potentaites
other psychedelics, as do many psychedelics,
so some call it a psychedelic. However no one
will ever trip on pot alone. The body has THC receptor sites, a finite number, once they are filled you get no higher. The level to bring on visions is far above this level. Psychotic reactions from long term use.....that is not my experience from reading and otherwise. Some people
do have negative reactions when they smoke pot, therefor they avoid it. Long term used does carry the possibility of amotavational syndrome. Where did you read this about long term and psychosis ?james
Posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 16:25:03
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by stjames on September 28, 2000, at 11:09:17
where did i read about the psychosis. i didn't read it, i witnessed it in four people including myself!
> Futhermore, and as you mentioned, there are many types of weed, with different potencies, moany of wich can no longer be considered as a soft drug, but as a hallucinogenic.
>
As for your comment about a finite number of receptors, and not being able to get higher beyond a certain point... I have no idea where u get this information. I do know that I was hospitalized and had to take neuroleptics for psychosis after I smoked a very large amount of pot. I had become convinced that people were following me and that everyone knew everything there was to know about me, and that people were going through my garbage to get data on me, etc...
definatly not a fun trip.
If you want more data on the negative effects of marijuana, check out the DSM IV, and you will see more (documented)information about how dangerous pot can be.
> james here.....
>
> Hallucinogenic, not really. It is hard to classify pot, chemically it looks somewhat
> like a psychedelic and as it potentaites
> other psychedelics, as do many psychedelics,
> so some call it a psychedelic. However no one
> will ever trip on pot alone. The body has THC receptor sites, a finite number, once they are filled you get no higher. The level to bring on visions is far above this level. Psychotic reactions from long term use.....that is not my experience from reading and otherwise. Some people
> do have negative reactions when they smoke pot, therefor they avoid it. Long term used does carry the possibility of amotavational syndrome. Where did you read this about long term and psychosis ?
>
> james
Posted by stjames on September 29, 2000, at 13:49:21
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 16:25:03
> >
> As for your comment about a finite number of receptors, and not being able to get higher beyond a certain point... I have no idea where u get this information.James here.....
Well, it is commonlly known. Many meds/drugs action is through receptor sites. GABA, opioids, and many other drugs/meds have receptor sites, and there are only so many sites in the body for a given med/drug. Therefor, finite. The drug/med fills the receptor sites till all are occupied.
Several factors determine how long the site is occupied and once the site opens up it can be refilled. It is common to think of this as a lock
and key, receptor sites only fit very specific molicules.In terms of pot, an interesting question is "why do we have a THC receptor ". I do not question that a few may have a psychotic reaction after short or long term, these numbers are very small. People have been smoking weed for thousands of years, no flipper babies yet.
James
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