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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 12:11:04
In reply to Re: Buspar is HORRIBLE!!!, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 11:19:58
That's great. You must have one of those systems that doesn't build up a tolerance. I used to take one aspirin for a headache but got so used to it that it takes 4 or 5 to rid myself of the pain now. I'm glad Klonopin works so well for you.
> Well I've never upped my dose on Klonopin since the first 2 weeks I was taking it 7 years ago. My doctor actually recommended that I take 4 mg/day (but I was living in Alaska and everything up there, including docs, are more liberal), but I myself realized that 2 mg was the perfect dose, because under 4 mg I got too sleepy. To this day I only take the same 2 mg/day and it is still effective for me.
Posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 12:13:37
In reply to mixing herbs with meds, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 11:35:48
Cari: Do you have any experience with melatonin?
> Polly,
> The only experience I've had in this area is that I've tried Kava, which is supposed to help anxiety, but it didn't do anything. I think that with us who suffer from truly acute anxiety/depression, the herbs are just too weak to make a difference. In Alaska I used to drink Valerian root tea that was freshly grown and sold locally, and that may have helped, but nothing like the Klonopin. I heard that if you take herbal pills like Valerian they won't be as effective because the natural properties are lost when they get refined into pill form. Once I took a bunch of Valerian root pills to see what would happen, but they didn't do a thing. St. Johns Wort never did a thing for me either, and if you have health insurance that covers prescriptions, you'll ending up spending more on St. Johns Wort that your actual meds. I don't think most doctors know much about the herbs, or if they do they don't share info with patients, because herbs are out of their "scientific" realm, but overall I'd say that herbs are very weak compared to meds.
Posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 12:23:42
In reply to Re: mixing herbs with meds » Cari, posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 12:13:37
Tina,
I haven't tried melatonin yet but have heard good things about it helping people sleep. Have you tried it? My boyfriend tried it and he said the first 3 nights he slept great but after that it didn't do anything for him.
Posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 13:05:00
In reply to Re: mixing herbs with meds » Cari, posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 12:13:37
I haven't tried it---tried Valerian...it worked for a few nights, but then stopped. What is with that?
Posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 13:33:53
In reply to melatonin, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 13:05:00
I haven't tried melatonin and that's why I asked you. You seem to have more knowledge of the natural alternatives, effective or otherwise, and I thought you might have an idea if it worked or not. Believe it or not, I have had great success with warm milk with nutmeg and cardamom pods. I know it sounds cliche but it's true. I'm not kidding...It's an ayurvedic cure for sleeplessness that I find helpful. It sure doesn't work everytime but it's a good one when I'm stressed.
> I haven't tried it---tried Valerian...it worked for a few nights, but then stopped. What is with that?
Posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
In reply to Re: melatoninCari, posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 13:33:53
OK I say this hoping that nobody will attack me for it, but has anyone tried using pot to relieve anxiety??? I've never used other drugs & never will, I don't even drink. I have a college degree and work at stable, full time job. I've found pot to be extremely effective in fighting off acute anxiety and used to use it do induce sleep nightly before I began taking Remeron (which also induces sleep so I don't need the pot anymore for that).
Posted by KarenB on June 8, 2000, at 15:33:15
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
Cari,
This is why they say, "Your mileage may vary..."
A long, long time ago, when I smoked pot, it CAUSED anxiety in me. I mean, EXTREME ANXIETY. It is the very last thing I'd do if I wanted to relax. It had exactly the opposite effect on my husband, however, but neither of us have smoked in years.
Strangely enough, I have been taking the "dreaded" Buspar (10 mg, 3x a day) for about five weeks and I have no side effects whatsoever. At first, I thought it was a placebo. Now, I actually think it's working.
There are many different chemical reasons why you may suffer depression or anxiety, including Noa's favorite, your THYROID. No one drug works for everyone and a drug is not inherently "bad" because it doesn't work for you. If that thinking were true, I would personally try to put a complete ban on both Prozac and Serzone - I would rather be tortured than take either of them again.
Karen
Posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:16:06
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
I have been told this by alot of people...but am a chicken about trying! When I quit smoking many years ago, it was because of *paranoid* pot reactions...but who knows maybe now it would be different...with just a little bit...
I do have some Melatonin somewhere...maybe i will try that...
Posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:18:34
In reply to Re: Buspar/natural remedy-Cari, posted by KarenB on June 8, 2000, at 15:33:15
It's so weird because my racing heart and anxiety seems to come in groups of days, then goes for a week or two, then is back...?
Posted by Kath on June 8, 2000, at 17:24:43
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
Hi Cari - Just a couple of non-attacking comments about pot. My 16-yr old is in a treatment program due to using it pretty well daily for about a year & a half - often numerous times daily. I've been finding out more about it and two things that I didn't know are: 1) It is a depressant. 2) It has a half-life of 48 hours. That means that 48 hours after one has smoked it, half of the active ingredient is still in one's bloodstream. I recently read a list of all the physiological effects of smoking pot & was surprised at how many areas in the body it affects, including the immune system. It's also WAY stronger than in my teen days (I'm 53). If you're considering it, you might want to look into the effects it has on the body, and keep in mind that one can become dependent on it - my son sure has.
Best of luck & take care.
Kath.
> OK I say this hoping that nobody will attack me for it, but has anyone tried using pot to relieve anxiety??? I've never used other drugs & never will, I don't even drink. I have a college degree and work at stable, full time job. I've found pot to be extremely effective in fighting off acute anxiety and used to use it do induce sleep nightly before I began taking Remeron (which also induces sleep so I don't need the pot anymore for that).
Posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 18:01:13
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial » Cari, posted by Kath on June 8, 2000, at 17:24:43
Thanks for the info Kath, I will consider that. I wish there were more current, in depth studies of the use of pot that weren't government biased. I know THC contains somewhere in the ballpark of 256 chemicals. I just wish they could identify and isolate each one, because at least one of them in there must help with anxiety... I have to admit it does scare me that no one really knows for sure exactly the long term effects of pot use. I know of people who have been smoking it for 30 years and are dignified professional business people whom no one would guess come home and take a bong hit every night. Yet on the other hand there are people like your 16 year old who obviously should not be smoking it. Why the difference in tolderance, addictive tendencies and benefits/negative repercussions???? I guess that is the big mystery, the same one that lurks behind our quest of the perfect med combo for each of us...
Posted by Sara T on June 8, 2000, at 19:45:07
In reply to melatonin, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 13:05:00
> I haven't tried it---tried Valerian...it worked for a few nights, but then stopped. What is with that?
If you try melatonin, make sure the brand you get is using a pharmaceutical grade melatonin. I have used both and the pharmaceutical grade is much stronger I think. Since herbal remedies are not regulated, you really do't know what youu're getting from dose to dose. You have to be careful to read the labels and look for levels of standardization. There are alot more books and info out there on the right things to look for and the pharmacology of herbs as well as their effectiveness.
Milk, bananas and some other foods that contain Tryptophan reduce anxiety. That's why the warm milk before bedtime works so well.
Sara T.
Posted by Kath on June 11, 2000, at 13:15:32
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 18:01:13
Hi Cari - you're welcome. You're right about people being different. My brother-in-law, who is in his 50's has smoked pot daily since he was a teen & is a very productive member of society; has a job; a home; a happy family life. And just yesterday I heard of a woman who my friend knows. Ten years ago she was intelligent, witty, interested in life, etc. She's been smoking pot daily for that duration & is now bored, unmotivated, doesn't talk much, etc. Could be the pot, could be something else.
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide is best for you.
Kath
> Thanks for the info Kath, I will consider that. I wish there were more current, in depth studies of the use of pot that weren't government biased. I know THC contains somewhere in the ballpark of 256 chemicals. I just wish they could identify and isolate each one, because at least one of them in there must help with anxiety... I have to admit it does scare me that no one really knows for sure exactly the long term effects of pot use. I know of people who have been smoking it for 30 years and are dignified professional business people whom no one would guess come home and take a bong hit every night. Yet on the other hand there are people like your 16 year old who obviously should not be smoking it. Why the difference in tolderance, addictive tendencies and benefits/negative repercussions???? I guess that is the big mystery, the same one that lurks behind our quest of the perfect med combo for each of us...
Posted by kady on June 13, 2000, at 7:52:28
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial » Cari, posted by Kath on June 11, 2000, at 13:15:32
Trust me on this. I know far more "professionals" who go home to their seemingly "perfect" families at night and toke up. They may appear productive to you or part of a happy family, but I have witnessed first hand the "smokescreen".
Stay away from it, these people I know have made things other than family and friends their priority. They have made their drug their priority and then claim to be able to function perfectly or at least as well as their neighbor. They isolate everyone and the things that go on behind closed doors would actually show their true colors.To be perfectly blunt, people start drinking for the same reason, anxiety release. You may feel less anxious but you will pay emotionally in other ways eventually. Don't kid yourself.
Posted by KarenB on June 13, 2000, at 9:12:45
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by kady on June 13, 2000, at 7:52:28
> Trust me on this. I know far more "professionals" who go home to their seemingly "perfect" families at night and toke up. They may appear productive to you or part of a happy family, but I have witnessed first hand the "smokescreen".
> Stay away from it, these people I know have made things other than family and friends their priority. They have made their drug their priority and then claim to be able to function perfectly or at least as well as their neighbor. They isolate everyone and the things that go on behind closed doors would actually show their true colors.To be perfectly blunt, people start drinking for the same reason, anxiety release. You may feel less anxious but you will pay emotionally in other ways eventually. Don't kid yourself.
Well said, kady. Everyone looks better from a distance. It's the way we behave with those closest and what we consider to be of value, that count.I know some guys like this, too. Their wives are not all that "happy" and it is a poor message on coping that they are demonstrating to their children.
ADs and anxiety meds are meant to lift us from imbalance to a "good normal," not have us walking around stoned.
Karen
Posted by danf on June 15, 2000, at 16:34:15
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
This is not an attack !
I would say you are playing with a fire that may consume you.
Pot is well known to induce paranoia & anxiety. It is not a function of any contaminant. It is foolish to mix psychoactive drugs & pot.
How to you think you will ever find a med treatment regimen that works if you add in POT ?
If YOUR current drug regimen does not work, then it needs to be modified. Adding POT on your own is just likely to cause meds that may help you to not work.
I feel for you & the pain you carry, which must be immense !
Posted by Andrea Gomez on June 16, 2000, at 15:43:42
In reply to Re: BuSpar, posted by Walter on June 5, 2000, at 10:19:37
> Took buspar 10 mg daily for 1 yr. Ineffective at that dosage level. When taken with a lot of caffeine, it destroyed my sex drive . I threw the BUSPAR away. will try stress relieve exercises etc. You need to take at least 20 to 30mg daily to be of any use.
I am taking Buspar right now with a combination of Zoloft. I am on 10mg. I feel this is going to do nothing for me. I have been feeling the effects of hypomania. Not only now, but all my life. Is this combination good or am I kidding myself. She is going to raise the dose on the Buspar next month. She gave me a low dose because the drug made me so sluggish the first few days.
Posted by Andrea Gomez on June 16, 2000, at 16:05:23
In reply to Anxiety, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:18:34
> It's so weird because my racing heart and anxiety seems to come in groups of days, then goes for a week or two, then is back...?
i have the same effects. i feel so hyped up an happy. a few days later i blow up. i become so afraid of myself and others finding out the "real" me.
Posted by Evelyn on June 17, 2000, at 8:26:05
In reply to Re: Anxiety, posted by Andrea Gomez on June 16, 2000, at 16:05:31
It's so sad how we are all suffering with this anxiety. I am now home out on disability because of it. Buspar was a horrible drug for me too because of my head also feeling like a "coffee percolator".
I would rather try natural remedies such as nature sunshines "nutri-calm", chamomile tea, kava kava, exercise such as roller blading, weight lifting, dancing. They are helping somewhat. But I want this anxiety to go away permantly. I've read that it takes a long time for the anxiety disease to develop, and it will take time for it to heal.
I pray to God to help us all, and to heal us. We just want to be normal, and live our lives with happiness. I think we all deserve to be healthy, happy, peaceful and calm.
Posted by crazy on August 26, 2000, at 11:38:24
In reply to Re: Anxiety, posted by Evelyn on June 17, 2000, at 8:26:05
> It's so sad how we are all suffering with this anxiety. I am now home out on disability because of it. Buspar was a horrible drug for me too because of my head also feeling like a "coffee percolator".
>
> I would rather try natural remedies such as nature sunshines "nutri-calm", chamomile tea, kava kava, exercise such as roller blading, weight lifting, dancing. They are helping somewhat. But I want this anxiety to go away permantly. I've read that it takes a long time for the anxiety disease to develop, and it will take time for it to heal.
>
> I pray to God to help us all, and to heal us. We just want to be normal, and live our lives with happiness. I think we all deserve to be healthy, happy, peaceful and calm.I have had one hell of a year this year and I was told I had a nervous breakdown in June of this year (2000). I was put on Remeron, but I seemed to be irritated easily and put on weight. I am now starting Serzone and taking Xanax for the anxiety. Sometimes I feel incompacitated and I feel that my family is paying for it. I just don't know what to do. The anxiety is driving me crazy. I've never had any problems like this before and I don't know what to do. I do pray for help, but it just seems like the minutes don't pass fast enough.
Posted by Nibor on August 26, 2000, at 13:32:51
In reply to Re: Anxiety, posted by crazy on August 26, 2000, at 11:38:24
What has helped me for anxiety is paxil. I take 20 mg. every morning; I have heard it keeps people awake when taken late in the day. I never have problems falling asleep (well, maybe once in a great while when I get overtired).
There are the usual side effects in the libido area, and I do have more vivid, action-oriented dreams, but I think that's about it.
Have you ever taken paxil? Also, and very important, do you have a therapist you like?
Take care of yourself.
Nibor> I have had one hell of a year this year and I was told I had a nervous breakdown in June of this year (2000). I was put on Remeron, but I seemed to be irritated easily and put on weight. I am now starting Serzone and taking Xanax for the anxiety. Sometimes I feel incompacitated and I feel that my family is paying for it. I just don't know what to do. The anxiety is driving me crazy. I've never had any problems like this before and I don't know what to do. I do pray for help, but it just seems like the minutes don't pass fast enough.
Posted by crazy on August 29, 2000, at 10:10:37
In reply to Re: Anxiety » crazy, posted by Nibor on August 26, 2000, at 13:32:51
Nibor
Thanks for your suggestions. I had a nervous breakdown in June and my doctor told me not to look for a therapist until my medication was under control. I am still working on that part. I am only on 100 mg/day, so I have a ways to go yet. The anxiety is always sitting in my stomach just waiting for something to stir it up. The Xanax is addicting, so I try not to take it unless I absolutely need it. As far as Paxil goes, my mom is on it and doesn't like it and I have heard many bad things about withdrawal from Paxil. I would just prefer to not take anything at all. I don't know what to do. I better give Serzone a try though. I also read something about Remeron. It said that if you increase the done from 30 mg to 45 mg it will diminish the appetite. I could always try that to. Thank you. >> What has helped me for anxiety is paxil. I take 20 mg. every morning; I have heard it keeps people awake when taken late in the day. I never have problems falling asleep (well, maybe once in a great while when I get overtired).
> There are the usual side effects in the libido area, and I do have more vivid, action-oriented dreams, but I think that's about it.
> Have you ever taken paxil? Also, and very important, do you have a therapist you like?
> Take care of yourself.
> Nibor
>
> > I have had one hell of a year this year and I was told I had a nervous breakdown in June of this year (2000). I was put on Remeron, but I seemed to be irritated easily and put on weight. I am now starting Serzone and taking Xanax for the anxiety. Sometimes I feel incompacitated and I feel that my family is paying for it. I just don't know what to do. The anxiety is driving me crazy. I've never had any problems like this before and I don't know what to do. I do pray for help, but it just seems like the minutes don't pass fast enough.
Posted by fanderson on September 10, 2000, at 12:20:19
In reply to Pot and melatonin, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:16:06
> I have been told this by alot of people...but am a chicken about trying! When I quit smoking many years ago, it was because of *paranoid* pot reactions...but who knows maybe now it would be different...with just a little bit...
>
Hi,
Smoking pot is not good for folks like me who have anxiety disorders. It made me paranoid also, so I would combine it with alcohol. You can probably guess how that worked out after several years. I,m OK now, but there are legal drugs that do a better job.
Posted by pullmarine on September 24, 2000, at 3:00:23
In reply to Re: Pot and melatonin, posted by fanderson on September 10, 2000, at 12:20:19
Pot and other hallucinogenics, but also strong stimulants are really dangerous to people who have tendencies for depression or anxiety or psychosis. I'm speaking from experience, stay away from that stuff.
Posted by SteveL on September 27, 2000, at 17:43:28
In reply to Re: Pot and melatonin, posted by pullmarine on September 24, 2000, at 3:00:23
I wandered into this thread looking for some info on Remeron and found the comments on cannabis fascinating. In my experience and observation it is one of the most complex drugs in wide use and cannot be simply characterized. Some of the most honorable and psychologically healthy folks I've known use it occasionally to regularly and I've also seen it ill-used by more than a few others. Its legal status clouds the issue tremendously, as well as the wide variability of both potency and qualitative effects. The availability of better potency and quality of "buds" is considered by most to be a definite advantage, as the desired effect can be archived with less smoke(better for the lungs, etc.).
I cannot argue with anyone's personal bad experiences or downplay the possible complications in conjunction with "doctor approved" meds, but I find the unqualified condemnatory tone and outright snideness of some of the posts all too common. We don't usually express this kind of contempt across the board towards all drinkers of alcohol, even though its profound dangers are widely recognized.
In my observation, as well as from comments of many people over the years(30), cannabis is generally not useful in cases of severe anxiety. It might be classified in part as a "minor psychedelic" and is probably best avoided by most folks with serious mental illnesses, especially those not already personally familiar with its effects.
Its most successful medical uses generally involve its salutary effects on nausea, appetite, physical pain and the associated situational, "ordinary" unhappiness. Despite its legal risks and problems with doctor's attitudes it's been a godsend for many people with cancer and other painfully debilitating diseases, and I find the common objection that they "just want to get high" curious when they are often freely prescribed narcotics and other powerful and dangerous psychoactive pharmaceuticals. Isn't feeling and getting better the whole point???
My personal experience in this area proved cannabis very useful in dealing with severe pain. It allowed me to use significantly lower doses of narcotics(30 to 70% less) while virtually eliminating the nausea and general "ickiness" and giving me the appetite and enjoyment to eat enough to maintain my weight and be more active. This was no small blessing and more effective across the board than anything the many doctors (some quite good) I saw could give me.
Thanks for all your posts, I wish you all good luck in finding your best help.
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